which countries would you blow up or change, continents, gods, planes, organizations?
would you advance the timeline? which NPCs and places would get more attention?
etc.
I'll post my list later
would you advance the timeline?
-No. Absolutely not. This part is what I least like out of everything, coupled with the fact that the interim period of time between "then" and "now" is purposely being left mostly blank. The stuff with deities, the stuff with "Abeir", the stuff with killing/minimizing various NPCs, all that, I could deal with, to a degree. The jump of the timeline 104 years is the deal breaker, however.
Now in the other game I participate in, the DM decided that after 100 years of spellplague a new Mystra arose and recreated the Weave (including the shadow aspect). This game remains using 3.5 as this group tried the new system and decided in their opinion that the game was too dumbed down and seemed more like a game of pokemon (power sword super strike) than the D & D they were comfortable playing. The game moves forward using the timeline established in the new books.
Either way, a transition can be accomplished rather easily making whatever changes you find interesting. Personally, I think the designers have proven that you can use pieces of every setting to make your own world. Next to nothing they did in 4e was original and that's the sad thing.
I didn't give an answer because I honestly don't have one--I'm not privy to whatever requirements the designers had to abide by when making changes to the setting.
Meanwhile, Mystra moves to take control of the Shadow Weave, springing the trap Shar's had in play for centuries. Mystra's weakened, as are her chosen (slightly), and she turns TN. That can explain any of the magic changes between editions.
Finally, give Elaine Cunningham as much time as she needed to finish Reclamation.
In the confusion, when Telamont Tanthul has no powers along with the rest of the ridiculous twelve, the murder of Telamont's wife is discovered and the Shades break out in civil war against themselves. As neither faction is good, Anauroch is reduced to a war zone, with each side brutally cannibalizing resources and weakening the ridiculous amount of power Shar illogically acquired. Clearly, no one in Sembia has ever encountered a player character before, who casts every divination spell in the world before putting on their shoes in the morning. Eventually, something would give and the Shades plot would be discovered.
Brennus and Rivalen are murdered in their beds by angry Sembian nationalists, giving the advantage to Telamont's side. The brutal civil war in Anauroch continues, with the Bedine raiding both sides for supplies, and learning to become wizards themselves to protect themselves from the monolithic Shadovar threat.
Pasha El-Parsekhal is murdered in his bed by agents of the Twisted Rune, and is replaced by his own Simulacrum. An icy puppet now rules the land of heat and fire.
In Waterdeep, Halaster fakes his own death so that he can sell Undermountain events to extraplanar entities craving amusement.
No Spellplague! No explosions! No Coming of the Rifts!
Elsewhere, everything is pretty much the same. Manshoon retakes control of the Zhentarim, Tethyr gets a new sourcebook.
Starting something of a world war situation, which starts in Sembia over their political turmoil, and the leaders looking to externalize the nations problems to focus the attentions of the near-rebellious population elsewhere, and beginning an invasion of the Dales and the Vast to secure resources, which slowly draws in forces from Thay to the Lord's Alliance, even down to the Empires of the Shining Sea and the Lands of Intrigue in the form of mercenary forces looking to profit from the fighting. Good excuse there to have many of the smaller settlements ravaged and abandoned as their caught in the middle of the fighting, or just in the path of the wrong band of mercenaries.
The entrance of the Zhents and the Shades on the side of Sembia has a galvanizing effect on many nations, and especially churches, which launches something of a holy war, with battles fought not only on Toril itself, but in the domains of the gods themselves. Great excuse there for paring down the various pantheons without having to resort to the sloppy mechanic of them all being the same being.
Finally, after a few years of widespread conflict that only seems to engulf more and more of the Realms with each passing season, with magical turmoil and chaos spilling out over the Realms from spellcasters on all sides, helping to explain many of the geographic alterations, Mystra decides to change the way magic works in order to preserve something of the Weave, and finally absorbs the Shadow Weave with Ao's permission to try to bring some order to the world, and with her once again neutral outlook, decides to punish all sides equally, diminishing their power, and providing a convenient excuse for introducing the new magical mechanics.
Shortly afterwards Cynosure is host to a meeting of all the remaining gods, who decide its best to answer the prayers of their followers, but not get so involved in their conflicts, allowing the new approach to divine magic to come into effect somewhat logically. Worshippers of deities who overlapped are absorbed by the deity still standing who's the best fit for them, and the pantheons move away from racial models to a more 'unified' Faerunian model in the wake of all the divine deaths.
At the end of all this, Mystra and her surviving Chosen retreat from the world at large, still present, but very subdued and quiet as they go about repairing the damage to the Weave, ignoring the doings of the people around them as they fulfill their duties over the next few decades or centuries.
Not quite all the holes plugged with the edition change, but its not a bad start I don't think.
Finally, give Elaine Cunningham as much time as she needed to finish Reclamation.
Time wasn't the only factor in Elaine's decision not to finish Reclamation.
I would make everything that happened in GHotR canon (which means, so far very little change), because I would need a reason for changes just as they did. However, Cyric didn't really kill Mystra - she killed herself. When she saw that Shar and Cyric had a chance of winning and Shar might take-over all magic, she self-imploded to keep Shar from gaining control of the Weave. Every other time she died she made provisions for her 'rebirth', but this time she couldn't because then Shar would be able to rest the power from her. its simple really - No Mystra, NO weave.
So now we have Mystra bravely dieing (permanently) by her hand to prevent others from commiting greater evil with her power. Savras also dies trying to protect Mystra from Cyric's fatal blow, and Velsharoon and Azuth run-off to hide in the Astral (and plan their return).
The Dwarf Gods died - no big. The Drow gods did die (its GHotR canon, right?), but Eilistraee hid a part of her essence with her father before the end of the Savras match, and through that Corellon can eventually restore her (1386? 87?). Unfortunately, when he does so, he also brings back Vhaeraun (who was hidden within Eilistaee's essence). Selvatarm is gone for good (poor spider-boy), and Kiaransalee is also dead... but finds herself waking-up in the Abyss, with Orcus.
You see, she was mortal once, and therefore at her core she has a mortal soul, and Orcus has been waiting for her for a very long time.
Could she come back? Only if a DM wants her to.
Spellplague washes over the world, many things go boom, including lots of stuff in Halruaa (but NOT Halruaa itself), which makes the Halruaans become more 'worldy' (having found their Isolationist nature prevented them from foreseeing or doing anything about the destruction of the weave). The get together with Lantanese Gnomes and build the first Trans-Realms Airship Company.
Tidal Waves wash all along the southern coasts, and the Chultan Penninsula gets swamped, destroying Thindol and Tashlar (and leaving Chult an Island, just like in 4e). The Halflings of Luiren also get 'swamped' (:P ), and the resultant confusion allows the Arkauins to oust the Drow from Dambrath - who flee to the Corsair Islands to the south and set-up shop all over again. As for Dambrath, it is taken over by a moody warrior-King who has his mind set on conquest (picture conan having a bad day). So except that Halruaan survives a little worse for wear, its pretty close to what they had in the South.
Mulhorand takes over Unther, just in time for the cult of Set to achieve prominence and wipeout all the other sects and temples within Mulhorand, effectively putting an end to the Mulhorandi Pantheon in the Realms. The Faerûnian Gods do nothing to prevent this, since Set is also in their pantheoin, and now the Old Empires are open to them as well. Mulhorand develops into a Dark Realms of Stygian sorcerors and evil cults. As for Thay, Szass Takes over just like in canon, but his spell works, and he becomes an Exarch (demigod) a'la Iuz (GH), and he kills or subjugates all other Red Wizards. Thay becomes a cross between itself, the Great Kingdom of Oerth (GH), and Sauron's Mordor, with all sorts of Undead running the place and foul beasties just chillin'.
Maztica would be still be around, but new cultures in the deeper jungles would be discovered - MUCH more powerful cultures - and the Faerûnians would suddenly realize they had a fight on their hands. Enter in a 'Lost World' setting, rather then idiotic one that is 100% redundant to the rest of FR!
Abeir? Never heard of the place... :D
Evermeet (along with several other locales thoughout the Realms, like the Moonshaes), does come back into conjunction with the Feywild. This does not mean Evermeet is gone... its just very easy to walk from the Realms into Faerie at these places (NO spells required... just concentration or dumb luck).
Calimshan's Uber-Genies break loose, and due to a sudden resurgence in their power through the Lands of Intrigue, anyone with ANY Genie blood starts to develop Genasi Traits. By the time the campaign starts up again (1386 DR), we find out that most Calishites - and people derived from them, like the Amnians - had some amount of Djinn blood, and the Lands of Intrigue become the Genasi Kingdoms (Yay! Now all the Middle-Eastern flavor is down in Zakhara where it belongs!)
Something similar happens to the Nar, and Narfel becomes a Tiefling Kingdom. I'll leave the warlock Knights in Vassa - one of the few good things to come out of 4e FR. Damara... ... a land under seige by the Vassans (just as it started out back in 1e). Impiltur becomes yucky, but not as stupidly bad as they made it . I'd give them a really bad leader taking the throne - a true Tyrant - and perhaps even move the Zhents over there.
As for Zhentil keep - I'd rename it and put some 'big, bad' there, like make Manshoon an undead Lich grafted to his armor. Give the whole place a Strahd/Barovia feel.
The west I would pretty much do what they did, but I would give Many Arrows a larger part to play in the drama. Luskan getting destroyed doesn't matter to me, so what they did was fine. Neverwinter just seemed redundant with Waterdeep, so I'm kinda glad that axed that as well. In fact, I'm pretty-much onboard with all the decisions they made regarding the Western Heartlands (because they took the 'light' approach there, as they should have elsewhere). Skullport takes a pounding but is still there (only divided into seperate caves now, rather then a single great big on).
Thats about it - I'd follow along with what they did up to a point, but still leave the Realms recognizable (albeit shooken-up), only advance the timeline ten (eleven?) years, and for god's sake leave that ridiculous Abeir in somebody's rather poor imagination.
Time wasn't the only factor in Elaine's decision not to finish Reclamation.
Indeed... she said she probably couldn't finish it even if she was given NO deadline for it.
There's just so much you can make out of broken pieces.
Rinonalyrna F. brought up the excellent point about their instructions from their bosses. We don't know all of these. I'll assume two based upon podcats and interviews. 1. Get FR in line with 4E. 2. make the campaign understandable to Newbies.
I think they had a third objective, work in a Realm Shattering Event. This was apparently decided upon because novels that tie into Big Events sell well. They apparently didn't notice that Big events do not normally factor into sourcebooks in a big way. Or maybe they did notice, and thought that working the Big Event into the sourcebooks in a major way would drive sales. The more I think about that last point, the more I think thats exactly why they did the Spellplague.
Personally I don't think the third one was necessary, or even really desireable. Certainly not to the extent that they did.
My post is getting kinda long so I'll have to come back to this but before I do I wanted to say soemthing quick about 1 and 2 above.
My biggest beef with the 4E FR team is less what they but rather how they did it.
They could and should, have tried to do both of these with more respect to the Realms as a setting and more respect to loyal Realms fans.
That disrespect and disloyalty still seriously bothers me.
if you were in place of Cordell and others (who btw imo did a poor job)
which countries would you blow up or change, continents, gods, planes, organizations?
would you advance the timeline? which NPCs and places would get more attention?
Hmm...good question. For myself, I probably would've advanced the timeline at the most a decade. That way, NPCs don't die off from old age and, more importantly, people could still use/convert characters from their older campaigns.
As for countries blowing up, I never liked the whole Egyptian theme in Mulhorand(sp?)/Unther area so I'm glad to see it go as well as Maztica, based solely on the fact that we were never going to get any more info on the place to begin with.
As for Gods, I've been apart of the (mostly) silent minority that believes that FR just had way too many Deities. Half of them didn't seem special because they crossed spheres/domains/portfolios/etc.. with many other deities. For me it seemed that the Gods were stepping on each other's toes. So for my part, I'm happy to have main Gods and their Exarchs. The only Deity I don't agree with them killing was Mystra. I don't see why 4e spell mechanics wouldn't work with the Weave/Shadow Weave as it was.
As for Abier returning, meh, I read alot of Magic: The Gathering novels and a good majority of them dealt with plane shifting/over-lapping so the concept doesn't swing me one way or the other.
As for NPCs, I've been a firm believer that it's a DMs job to use or not use them as they see fit, but I can see how players might feel about NPCs "over-exposure" in FR and the PCs uselessness when compared to powerful arch-magi/chosen of Mystra superheros. In the end, since I never really used them other than a talking backdrop, I don't mind seeing them go.
Though I'd like to add that just because the FR design team went another way than I (and many others) would have, that doesn't mean that I don't respect their work and/or decisions and am happily playing in their new Realms with no worse for wear.
18DELTA ;)
Next session we'll advance three years in our chronology, from 1375 to 1778 DR. We will deal firstly with the Elven Rise, and then, slowly they'll be caught by that plot "The Grand History of the Realms" brings, the one about an alternative calendar developed by Sharans --which announces the triumph of Shar.
My friends already hold the 14th level; until the end of the next campaign, involving the re-establishment of Cormanthyr prolly the 18th level will be achieved --this will be an exhaustive campaign. And soon, towards the 80s the last 20th level will be reached, it's when they'll be ready to deal with these major changes. I'm talking about a four members party, so they're might enough to face some dangerous situation. It will be fun.
Personally, I'll put my best at the task, avoiding them to allow Mystra to be slain by Shar/Cyric [LOL]. The rest (Abeir, Thay, etc) is too distant. The Mystra/Spellplague issue is more urgent.
But in no way I will exchange my 3.0/3.5 edition for the 4.0 one. I'll remain loyal to the system.
Netheril, rather than Halruaa, needed to die. With a nod to Shar in the truest sense of her portfolio, an attempt against Halruaa fails utterly and results in the crash of Netheril to the ground and the death of the Princes. Even so, her shades and former citizens spread out and meld truly into all shadows of the world, all nations and empires. Shar's portfolio flourishes even as she loses control of the shadow weave.
Let Elaine Cunningham's plans for Halruaa follow their natural course, and show us what happens in this country.
The Sharran plot above involves a complex attack against Mystra and the Weave, which results in the irrevocable death of Cyric (through his own failure and inadequacy) and the reinstatement of Myrkul (who overwhelm a wounded Kelemvor and reclaims his place) and Bhaal (see below) to the pantheon. Mystra barely retains her own power as she deals with the aftermath of the negative energy attack, which causes her to fundamentally alter of the Weave, such that the shadow weave is reintegrated and all magic is subtly altered. Mystra also re-absorbs the power from her Chosen, permanently, and she returns to a more LN state having regained her Sharran energy and Chosens' energy... and reverts back to Mystryl.
The Helm-Tyr-Torm thing doesn't happen. Instead, Helm and Tyr are killed during the as-yet-minimally-mentioned demonic invasions of the upper realms. Lysander, under great duress during this invasion, temporarily loses control of the portfolio of time and fragments into a tripartite deity (but later regains the portfolio of time, and the Amaunator aspect rises to reign as the pre-eminent aspect). Asmodeus rises to deity status by absorbing a major portion of Cyric's portfolio. Bhaal is reborn as his last bhaalspawn -daughter- (not the male bhaalspawn of the books) kills the last reigning high priest of Cyric (perhaps his Chosen) at the site of the Boareskyr.
Nothing happens to the elvish, gnomish, halfling, etc. deities.
And the sun and moon elves are not screwed up by glowy eyes and all that junk. Sure, have the Feywild move closer... but make the -wood- elves the ones that regain the strongest ties to the Feywild (which is far more logical).
Eilistraee returns as the Masked Lady, having been hidden by Corellon temporarily rather than having died.
To introduce the new type of dragonkin, explain this as a mass exodus from a dying reptilian world that is completely unrelated to Toril but who -are- related to the Sarrukh in a mysterious way. The inhabitants of the dying world use sarrukh-style magic to connect to the dying portal nexus energy, and arrive randomly through many portals all over Faerun as the nexus finally collapses.
As to Thay, completely ignore what happened in the books. Thay was cool as it originally was and none of that nonsense needed to happen.
There were things they had to do: 4e changes, and things in the realms that wouldn't work for that.
What I would have done:
Timeline: Skip ahead!!! Wrap up your campaigns and make their grandchildren. Heck, that's what they did for Throne of Bloodstone in 1e. 100 years for me, the GM/DM to play with, is fan-tastic.
Also: time travel. Use one set of stats for now (4e) and another version for then (3e).
Also: What if your party goes in search of the tombs of their old characters? It's an opportunity.
How often do we get to seriously consider the massive history our earlier PCs helped shape? Or what settings really do go through in a Century of change?
Gods: Time of Troubles permanently for many of them. First: pick the actual deity-types (pretty much the ones we've got). Have them absorb the essence and powers of the others; make these others Exarchs. Give them stats, have them dwell in the Dominions of the Majors, but they're merely 21st-30th level challenges for the PCs. They're not gone, and they may have a group or two of faithful or warlocks, but they're not major players anymore per se.
Elistraee is still around, but she's somewhere in the Astral Sea. They all are, and unless the DM wants, they don't go into Faerun.
In general: Exarchs rather than new deities. It's silly to have hundreds of "uber-powerful, all-knowing" entities that arn't used all the time. Make them the pantheon back ground for the outerplanes. Give them stats, if for no other reason than so that Hellboy can kill them when Mignola gets through with Asgard and Olympus!
Mystra and her Chosen: Mystra dies (too much focus, this shakes things up), her chosen mostly go down, but the major chosen become set pieces in the realms. The survivors include Elminster, Storm, the Simbul (who I would have go insane and be sequestered in Elminster's tower); Elminster's spirit is broken by the event and what's happened to the Simbul, and he's left the realms to bother with themselves (he just can't care anymore). They lose their powers and get demoted to paragon-level challenges.
Thay: tough one. Keep in mind there are no schools of wizardry; ergo no specialist Zulkirs. I get why they did it.
Also, as per the Thay/Darkon thread, I have a theory about the ritual Szass Tam used. I'd keep Necropolis, oddly, but have it localized to Thaymount with the rest of the nation having pockets of darkness. Some survivors and walled towns, but the land isn't as rich as it once was. It's also very grim; the living inhabitants are cut off from Tam's notice, and they're underseige from undead. They're still evil, have slaves, and use undead, but they don't like the Thaymount undead.
However, I do miss the Magocracy/slave traders aspect, and the affluant wealth. Also zulkirs bickering. Maybe give them (for lack of a better term) a diaspora, or have corrupt Mulan cities on the edge of Thay still function.
Thayvian culture should still exist. I'd have kept a large part of it, and just worked without the specialization aspect.
Maybe have Thayan enclaves scattered about the realms in walled compounds of great size: towns within cities. The Zulkir, or mayor/ruler of the compound, is a noble in many cities. In fact, they are rivals with each other as well as in city politics.
They're also against the Necropolis Undead of Tam. Tam has generals who're powerful undead, liches and such, who have keeps scattered across Thay, and who report back to Thaymount.
Abeir: I like it. It's a reason to add in Dragonborn and more Genasi. Also it's a whole other world, not just the additional continent on Toril.
Undermountain: I have plans. I say more Undermountain! 4e is all about combat and dungeons and traps. An excellent heroic-mid paragon area!
Myth Drannor: heh. Remember Aliens? How settlers thought it was a good idea to live on that planet? Well, fiends have been squabbling over Myth Drannor for centuries. What, an army of NPCs would have gotten rid of everything? Heck, most folks didn't remember the Phaerim until it was too late. What else is beneath Myth Drannor?
Zakhara: I would do something with this place. It's cool, and not that far from Faerun.
Lantan: A reason to port over Artificers and Warforged. I would keep the gnomish inventors, or at least put them somewhere.
Netheril, rather than Halruaa, needed to die. With a nod to Shar in the truest sense of her portfolio, an attempt against Halruaa fails utterly and results in the crash of Netheril to the ground and the death of the Princes. Even so, her shades and former citizens spread out and meld truly into all shadows of the world, all nations and empires. Shar's portfolio flourishes even as she loses control of the shadow weave.
I like that and find it completely appropriate for a bunch of Shar worshippers.
It's silly to have hundreds of "uber-powerful, all-knowing" entities that arn't used all the time.
Maybe, but the gods of Faerun were never all-powerful or all-knowing anyway.
Maybe, but the gods of Faerun were never all-powerful or all-knowing anyway.
Especially the deity of divinations... or the one of magic that divination was a subset of... if they weren't, no one was.
Mine was rather long... :embarrass
Netheril, rather than Halruaa, needed to die.
There you go!
How was that for a Freudian slip? I hate that friggin' place so much, I even left it out of my extremely verbose post. :D
I like your idea, BTW - too bad the place has become someone's 'love child'.
I think the OP is really asking what we would do as FR designers were we in the place of the current ones (and, I assume, were asked to make changes to the setting).
I didn't give an answer because I honestly don't have one--I'm not privy to whatever requirements the designers had to abide by when making changes to the setting.
This is quite true. I would love to add lore and crunch to the Realms, but due to my extreme dislike of the 4E rules, I would not be able to properly write for the 4E Forgotten Realms setting. Since I think the 4E mechanics are a giant step backwards, adopting (mutilating really) the Realms to 4E should have been entirely avoided.
Xxiphu
Skyfire emirates
Earthmotes
The Spellplague (as some kind of plague and not the death of Mystara and the whole catastrophe)
Spellscarred lands/people
Shar "good boy, now run on home and get imprisoned for 1000 years while I create my own plane, move into the largest dominion of all the gods, and suffer no repurcussions for my actions".
Someone hit the designers with a stupid stick
Any story posted in the forums by us was preferable to that drivel.I'd advance the time-line about 5 to 10 years, enough time to change a few things, close off a few plotlines and open new ones, to retire some NPCs, without really changing anything a great deal, and still keeping many options open.
I'd also trim the setting back to 1e proportions, geography wise, concentrating mainly on the Heartlands. It would include the Moonsea, the Vast, Sembia, Cormyr, the Dalelands, Cormanthyr, Anauroch, the Western Heartlands, the Sword Coast, the Savage Frontier and the Silver Marches, all those classic lands. Don't get me wrong, I love the lands outside, more so than many I've included, but the setting had grown too wide. The FRCS 3e struggled to cover them all, the FRCG 4e failed completely (and made it still wider). Getting back to the core allows for unity of theme with the space to describe them all properly. Forget the Underdark while we're at it.
Everything outside that border will get some fantastical mentions of exotic lands, and can wait for future source books to detail in similar manners. (Yes, there'd be future source books, regionally based.)
Then I'd go through what was caught in that net with a fine comb, and clean up. If an NPC had a complicated plot that went back a few editions with many twists and turns, then it can end, and a new one can start. If an NPC has been overused and gotten a bit silly, they can die or retire, but all the all favourites can stay. The point I think should be start the edition fresh, that doesn't require reference to prior sources. (Example: Alamondh of Procampur is basically described as a bit dodgy in the FRCS. The FRA however gives his nefarious scheme.)
Of what's left, of lands, towns, cities, people, organisations, and so on, everything should be described in good detail from canon lore, but leaving out all the pointless extras that have accumulated over the years. There should only be what's useful, what's interesting, and what's enjoyable.
There'd be no RSE to accompany the edition change, and hopefully no more RSEs forever more. To explain the change in magic, Mystra releases Weave 2.0 or something, and the spellcasters adapt. With magic not granting Absolute Power so readily, the high-level spellcasters become less powerful. All the high-level characters can be revised to something more normal.
More specific details:
Let's leave out a few gods that don't have prominence within the core realms. I have no problem with them, but some people have an irrational dislike of the FR pantheon, so it'd have to be done. The others can return in later sourcebooks as optional extras. Cyric can be killed off.
As for the whinging about Mystra... Mystra remains NG and controls the Weave, but heads a council of the magic gods (Azuth, Savras, Velsharoon, Shar etc) which debate on matters of policy regarding magic and govern its various aspects. Since they all disagree, very rarely can anyone be cut off from magic, only those who really threaten the world.
As for Shar, the Lady of Loss stays true to her name and loses a lot of power as a matter of course. She resumes her original proportions, and acts only in opposition to Selune. Shadow Magic can stick around, as somebody must like it, though it has no inherent bad qualities.
No more RSEs, or if they're mandatory, then a much much slower rate of them. The timeline can advance much slower too. New additions and events in the novels can be placed in a web-based newsletter for those wishing to keep up. (You'd never know what happened to the Drow pantheon without reading the drow novels for example.)
I wouldn't change much, just a big cleanup really. Everything in the setting book should be all that anyone needs to run a good FR game. This, and the facts that NPCs shouldn't dominate, that this is the DM's world, and all those other bugbears, would be rammed home. The status of the high-level NPCs would be properly described (as the WMDs of Faerun's Cold War between the organisations, as shepherds to the adventurers, etc). Basically, it'd be like the Ol' Grey Box, 30 years on.
-Who is the dupe now. Cyric can slowly build up his strength for the True day of Strife!
18DELTA (Truly enjoying being a deluded Cyricist)
:coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul I almost cried after seeing what "happened" in the realms.
Yeah thats how constructive I get. baibai!
Let it be told again: Toril is a world now "Forgotten" by beings of Earth but was once widely traveled as part of a larger multiverse. I'd bring back the faded parchment, the dry (brown) inks; allow the venerable setting to show its age proudly. The Realms are classic in every sense, and that should be reflected not only in story but in production values as well.
Imagine: "This is the Realms as they might have been in the gray box days, had 4e existed way back then." Dragonborn, tieflings, warlords, the whole sha-bang but without the Realms Shaking Event. Retro feel, new rules.
This is the general idea, and I would have fought for it, had I been the one to handle the transition of FR to 4e ;).
1. Kill Mystra
2. Replace Maztica with Returned Abeir as the home of dragonborn
3. leave all other gods alone
4. advance the timeline 1 to 3 years
5. Keep Returned Abeir's lore to a minimum, making it is own mini-setting, perhaps a small 40 page Gazeteer or sumthin'
The jump of the timeline 104 years is the deal breaker, however.
at first I was willing to accept that, to see how would the good old stories develop and getting rid of the lame ones at the same time, but two books and a few articles is not enough, fifty books like in 2e maybe
the 100 year gap and the quality (font, empty space, art, the choices of what to keep and what to blow up ...) of the two books doesn't help also
perhaps a small 40 page Gazeteer or sumthin'
60 pages, like the Pathfinder one would be nice
In terms of magic, we simply had Mystra absorb the shadow weave (causing her remaining humanity to go poof) and move to a neutral stance on magic.
Mystra is more interesting as NG, that struggle, better to have intrigue than Boccob who is just a name
I think the designers have proven that you can use pieces of every setting to make your own world.
I did that years ago
I think the OP is really asking what we would do as FR designers were we in the place of the current ones
yes, I meant go wild, ignoring any requirements (includes the last pages of GHOTR), even what and how many sourcebooks would you release
Any ongoing wars end up as cold wars, with lots of cloak and dagger stuff on either side.
all wars to end, that would be unrealistic, tough I agree more cloak and dagger stuff the better
Auppenser is brought back to life by a party of adventurers, causing havoc, chaos, and the reinstitution of the psionic classes. This destabilizes the spheres of the other gods, creating a situation of flux that lasts approximately a month.
psionics are my favorite, I like that they're so rare (not almost ignored like they were at some time cause of Dark Sun) cause that's futuristic
Auppenser, in my own world he has a plateau/quarter in the city/demiplane of Dweomerheart, and he's isn't almost dead but in state of deep meditation for some mysterious purpose and planar pilgrims go there to join him. He isn't the guy to cause chaos, he's harmony.
Telamont Tanthul has no powers along with the rest of the ridiculous twelve, the murder of Telamont's wife is discovered and the Shades break out in civil war against themselves.
agreed, they're ridiculous (stats), tough I would much more like to see the war behind the scenes between Netherese descendants, with many factions like the liches of Illusk, Ioulaum, Larloch, Halruaans, that cult, Opus etc.
and I don't think Sembians are by nature particularly patriotic or nationalist, they all have a price
Pasha El-Parsekhal is murdered in his bed by agents of the Twisted Rune, and is replaced by his own Simulacrum.
I think it's fine the way it is, Twisted Rune already has the control over the country, but it's relatively unknown how, and that's intriguing, a direct puppet would be unoriginal
In Waterdeep, Halaster fakes his own death so that he can sell Undermountain events to extraplanar entities craving amusement.
he can easily return in many ways like villains often do, but I don't think he's the type of guy who would sell anything, for souls, not sure
Manshoon retakes control of the Zhentarim
old Zhentarim were much better than Fzoul's religious army, too monolithic and boring
and especially churches, which launches something of a holy war
and the pantheons move away from racial models to a more 'unified' Faerunian model in the wake of all the divine deaths.
her surviving Chosen retreat from the world at large
I like your idea of the world holy war and of spreading it to the divine realms, also the pantheons moving into more unified model, but not quite entirely, something like in Pathfinders Gods and Magic book where e.g. elves have their own few gods and some that they share with other races.
again I don't like the neutral Mystra, though the Chosen more in the background would be better, I wasn't bothered by them but eventually new heroes should get the attention
I would make everything that happened in GHotR canon (which means, so far very little change), because I would need a reason for changes just as they did.
why? you like them? GhotR can be explained as false, as Cyric's alternate timeline, or just writings of a mad sage ...
The Dwarf Gods died - no big. The Drow gods did die
most dwarf gods are interesting, and drow except Selvetarm who can be a proxy. Also Vheraun, didn't care about him until the awful Resurrection novel
You see, she was mortal once, and therefore at her core she has a mortal soul, and Orcus has been waiting for her for a very long time.
not really, Astral Plane, interesting idea tough
I agree that Halruaans should become more worldy, Lantanese gnomes working with Netherese, hmm, I already have an airship company, but elven, house Lyrandar, originally from Lyrandrar
Chult as an island is cliche, let's have a dinosaur island, boring, Tashulta, Mhair etc. added to the complexity of the place
your idea of Dambrath is nice, never liked Dambrath
and for halflings I have other plans, don't like them all swamped, there's already the ones in Chessenta
Mulhorand, Unther, Thay ...
Stygian idea is great, disagree about Szass Tam, another Velsharoon, and Red Wizards were too good to be destroyed
Maztica /quote]
Maztica should stay, adding new cultures and getting attention of real world rip off is good, Abeir looks silly on the map, and was unnecessaryEvermeet does come back into conjunction with the Feywild. This does not mean Evermeet is gone...
what made Evermeet special is that it was a piece of heaven (Arvandor) on earth, now that's takenCalimshan's Uber-Genies break loose ... the Genasi Kingdoms
I wouldn't release them, just put them on the break of release, causing the transformation of many into genasi (half maybe), I agree there's too much Middleastern realms, and better to blow Zakhara than CalimshanSomething similar happens to the Nar, and Narfel becomes a Tiefling Kingdom. I'll leave the warlock Knights in Vassa - one of the few good things to come out of 4e FR. Damara... ...
I'd use Chaos for Narfell, like in Warhammer, Warlocks are nice, but I would make the origin of their power more mysterious, more in my own post about the changes
Impiltur, can't stand the picture of that woman from the Dragon article, ruined it for me, and the place was too black and whiteZhentil keep - I'd rename it and put some 'big, bad' there, like make Manshoon an undead Lich grafted to his armor. Give the whole place a Strahd/Barovia feel.
you're obsessed with big bad liches, old Zhentarim were perfect imo, maybe graft some other lich to Manshoon's armor, to increase his arsenal
I don't think Neverwinter was redundant beside Waterdeep, that's realistic, that there would be similar competitive cities along the coast, making it different and unique in it's own way should do it
and better to leave Skullport the way it is
though the subject is too broad
I'd advance it to 1391 DR and change it like in my homebrew setting, but I've butchered other worlds and taken their stuff
I agree with BadCatMan about 1e proportions, though I'd keep some newly described realms that are worth keeping
and I like Cyric, the one from the Trial novel, somewhat like an anomaly of existence
The Spellplague (as some kind of plague and not the death of Mystara and the whole catastrophe)
good idea, without the booms
how it's in the world we play:
changes to magic
better to kill Ao than Mystra. The story goes, about 70 000 years ago Ao, a creature of Balance, somewhat similar to the Lady of Pain and Io, created Realmspace, its own little, sheltered, alternate universe. That way it explains why the gods are so much powerful than other planar rulers (e.g. Vheraun and Inthricis/alternate Anthraxus). In a way Ao is like the Matrix or Demiurge. Avatar Crisis was a prelude, and now Realmspace has the laws of nature more aligned with the rest of the multiverse.
how it did happened, I played in a campaign involving Aoskar, Imaskari, Cyric, Revolutionary League, the Transcendent Order, ultroloths, long story ...
changes to gods
no exarchs, proxies are just fine, there are only gods and demigods
Shar - loses absolute control over shadow magic, shadow is neutral
Tyr - becomes Anachtyr, due to changes in belief in the Lands of Intrigue, dualistic entity, combined of the Norse and Calishite god, not such an real world copy
Talos - becomes Bhaelros, Calishite influence in overall Faerunian pantheon is too small, and I don't like the name Talos, confusing with the triple iron golem and Talona, Bhaelros origin, fomorian/fiendish, his apotheosis happened during the short service to Shar during the War of Light and Darkness
Bane - sometimes Lyachtu Xvim personality emerges
Cyric - more aloof, more anarchistic, no rules apply to him, anomalous, the universe constrains him
Oghma - becomes better known as Curna, ancient kamerel origin
Silvanus - strengthening of Faerie caused that he's better known as Emmantiensien, realm known as Nature's Core in Faerie
Chauntea - fey origin, divine realm in Faerie known as Cradle of Life
Sune - Iallanis fragment
Helm - once an clairsentient inevitable of Auppenser
Malar - rebellious aspect of Herne
Loviatar - divine realm relocated to Shadowfel of Earth (Tuonela)
Talona - night hag origin
Beshaba - now mostly known as Black Bess
Umberlee - Pyaray's kraken fragment
Gwaeron Windstrom - falls to proxy status
Ulutiu - alive, fey origin, but trapped in Dreamscape
Auppenser - deep meditation (since the Fall of Jhaamdath), in Dweomerheart
Shaundakul - djinni origin
Amaunator - stays a heresy, Lathander cooler than boring, tyrant sun gods
Velsharoon/Melifleur - falls to proxy/puppet of Anthraxus
Myrkul - just fine in the Crown of Horns
Bahamut - is Xymor
Tempus - killed in the Blood War, Garagos, Bhaal and Uthgar compete for his essence
Elementals - Kakatal, Grome, Ix Pucyola, Akadi
changes to lands
increased Shou immigration
Calimshan - RSE, Calimemnon crystal is on the verge of breaking causing the genie blood to reawaken in many, genasi unite against the necromancers (more factions, Shoon's, Twisted Rune etc.), it's not an open war yet. Calimshan spreads underwater.
Moonsea - Manshoon takes control again
Cormanthor - elves are only capable of conquering the Elven Court, not Myth Drannor, Auseriel is rebuilt
Western Heartlands - would introduce Talfiric descendants, very rare shadow gifted people, somewhat like House Phiarlan
Vast - emergence of the hobgoblin realm of Haeekkrukha
southeast of Raurin - Riedra (fey, not aberrations) and Adar, north of them the Demon Wastes
Lurien - destroyed in a planar shattering event, overrun by creatures from Spiritworld like nathri and will'o'wisps, refugees form Tolkienesque realm in Sespech
Dambrath - RSE, Amtar jungle awakens, covers the entire realm, now dominated by shifter (many of the Black Blood), tasloi, volodni and adu'ja cultures
Anaroch - Shades manage to turn half of the desert into fertile land, in the north they war with goliaths and uldras, they don't conquer Sembia
Vaasa - goblinoid resistance to the warlocks, snow goblins, ondonti and giants, house Tharashk, Mark of Finding, originally of Thar, based in Bloodstone Lands, searching for dragonshards (rare bloodstone of Asgorath/Io, remnants of it's death)
Great Dale - insert Eldeen Reaches
Tortured Land - xaOs dwarves
Narfell - big abyssal rift opens in the north, tieflings, Impiltur and Damara aren't so black and white
Hordelands - xeph, derro, gnoll, centaur cultures given some attention
Great Rift - add Aurum, and Kundarak, banking and security. Blessed of Gorm Gulthyn and Vergadain, their darker aspects, at the secret top Abbathor's servants.
Chondath - conquered by evil sun elves of Lyrandrar, House Lyrandar, the airships look more like those from the Elven Imperial Navy
Lantan - ancient maug prototype is discovered, no warforged, something like Clan Cannith, less business-like, less magical, more mechanical, the tradition of the gnome Netherese slaves, golmoids not warforged, restricted to the island, Mark of Making is connected to Gond
Chessenta - RSE, realm is flooded, after the campaign in the Plane of Water, large parts are swamp now, ogre magi, blue goblins and merrow have their realm, also sivs and changelings (batrachi)
Mulhorand, Unther - Stygian idea is nice, but three thousand years would logically develop Mesopotamian and Egyptian cultures into something very different than a real world copy, great planar influence due to use of ancient imaskari technology
Altumbel - they're psionically gifted aventi, descendants of Jhaamdath, tough they had even more ancient empires in unrecorded history, also they're similar to Phoenicians, elven animosity, except with Myth Nantar, more attention to underwater - surface relations in general
Erlkazar - add vampire race from Castlemourn, like house Jorasco
Raurin - bhuka goblins, half-giants and kaorti (imaskari)
Shaar - RSE, parts of Shaar are Dark Sun
Zakhara RSE, all imaginable undead now there, Aerenal is east of that, Katashaka is reptilian, Maztica is also quite different but this is too long, the planes too
FRCS would have 500 pages, FRPG 200, more detail would be on cultures, clergy rather than gods, relations between nations and surface-underwater-underdark-other continent-planet-plane (factions especially)
there would be one sourcebook each two months, maybe in this order: Planar Realms, Aquatic Realms, Island Realms, Sylvan Realms, organizations, Dalelands, Cold Realms, Demon Realms (Impiltur, Great Dale, Narfell ...), Vast and Sembia ...
Mystra was able to deny magic to clerics and deities when she chose... so there would be failure in the cosmos of epic proportion, but no more so than ToT. This would allow the transition to 4E, afterwards, I imagine Mystra would just activate a backup and pull a Midnight again.
-Lathander being cooler than boring is something I can support. Though, I never found him particularly boring myself.
I meant it's better to keep him
Amaunator is boring, he's lawful after all
I don't see the logic, before there was Lathander and the heresies, many options, now there's just one option with the unpronounceable name, and PCs certainly love playing bureaucrats or fighting against bureaucracies