*Runs around dancing*
I'll let anyone interested know what I think later thisevening. In the mean time, I'll take questions as I read along. :D
-RW
-Thanks.
18DELTA :D
-What Princes of Shade made it?
18DELTA
Is spellscar a feat and what kind of powers can it have(or do I have to wait for the players handbook for this)?
How did the Shades come out? We knew they got Anaroch(sp?) and Sembia, but any other things of intrest?
And does it delve any deeper into Eliminsters crazieness?
Deities of 4e Realms:
Greater Gods:
Amaunator: Sun
Asmodeus: Sin
Bane: Tyranny
Chauntea: Life
Corellon: Fey
Cyric: Strife
Ghaunadaur: Abominations
Gruumsh: Savagery
Kelemvor: Death
Lolth: Drow
Moradin: Dwarves
Ohgma: Knowledge
Selune: Moon
Shar: Shadows
Silvanus: Nature
Sune: Beauty
Tempus: War
Torm: Law
Gods: Serve the greaters
Angharraadh: Wisdom
Auril: Winter
Bahamut: Justice
Berronar Truesilver: Family
Beshaba: Bad Luck
Garl Glittergold: Protection
Gond: Craft
Ilmater: Suffering
Loviatar: Pain
Luthnic: Caves
Meilikki: Forrests
Sheela Peryroyl: Beauty
Sseth: Serpents
Talona: Plague
Tiamat: Greed
Tymora: Good luck
Umberlee: Sea
Waukeen: Merchants
Zehir: Poison
Exarchs/ Demigods: Ascended mortals mainly, some have mortal worshippers
Abbathor
Arvoreen
Baervan Wildwanderer
Bahgtru
Baravar Cloakshadow
Berronar
Brandobaris
Callarduran Smoothhands
Clangeddon Silverbeard
Cyrrollalee
Deep Seshalas
Dugmaren Brightmantle
Erevan Ilesere
Fenmarel Mestarline
Fzoul Chembryl: Sevice to Evil
Garagos
Hoar
Hruggek
Jergal: Fatalism
Labelas Enoreth
Lliira
Maglubiyet
Malar
Marthammor Duin
Milil
Obould: Warriors
The Red Knight: Tactics
Sharess
Shargaas
Shevarash
Shiallia
Siamorphe
Solonar Thelandrira
Thard Harr
Uthgar
Valkur
Vaprak
Vergadain
Primordials:
Akadi
Bazim-Gorag
Grumbar
Istishia
Kossuth
Seven Lost Gods. (Includes Dendar, Kezef, and Borem of the Boiling Mud)
Archdevils: One for each of the nine
Baalzebul
Bel
Belial
Dispater
Glasya
Levistus
Mammon
Mephistopheles
__________________________________________________________________
Enjoy, or blast as you will. ;)
-RW
Just recieved my FRCG in the mail. Havn't had a chance to crack it open yet, but I'm already giddy with glee.
*Runs around dancing*
Huh... Do you enjoy root canal, too?
I'm looking forward to it as well, but not with 'glee'... more like trepedition.
I'll let anyone interested know what I think later thisevening. In the mean time, I'll take questions as I read along. :D
-RW
Why not save yourself a lot of time and typing and just mail each of us a copy?
However, he has retreated and with the help pf the Zhents.....this is where it`s going to become silly......They are staving off attacks by the Yakuza.
-RW
Only the Manshoon clone known as Orbakh survives. He is no longer in Westgate, as the fireknives have purged his vampiric presense.
However, he has retreated and with the help pf the Zhents.....this is where it`s going to become silly......They are staving off attacks by the Yakuza.
-RW
. And people complained about Maztica being a copy of the real world.Do what I say, but not what I do is perfectly applied to WotC at this moment.
However, he has retreated and with the help pf the Zhents.....this is where it`s going to become silly......They are staving off attacks by the Yakuza.
-RW
???
What?
Could you elaborate please?
As for elaborating on the Yakuza, I have to read on. They didn't seem to say much more in the section I read.
-RW
18DELTA ;)
Only the Manshoon clone known as Orbakh survives. He is no longer in Westgate, as the fireknives have purged his vampiric presense.
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
As soon as I see reference to either, I'll post it.
-RW
Sanjay
18DELTA
Meanwhile we will watch the olympics and post the results for you.
:D
As for the blurbs, so far they appear to all be on two pages a piece. The book looks nice, but it isn't the FRCS by any stretch of the imagination. Some images make a return from 3.x, however I'd almost prefer the original artwork to some of the new stuff.
The maps are the dissapointing ones seen in the excerts, however the full scale map is interesting to look at. Mulhorand appears to be gone, and the layout looks very alien at the moment.
It definately has that fresh feel, full of surprise, however it is a gutted feeling, and by no means feels as expansive as it once was.
Overall I think its saving grace is the chance to not know everything again. It feels exciting to learn lore once more. :P
-RW
Overall I think its saving grace is the chance to not know everything again. It feels exciting to learn lore once more.
That is what I've been considering the positive part of it all.
lol, I think the trade off is slightly lopsided
If you're willing to offer more to balace the scales , we wont complain,:P
Huh... Do you enjoy root canal, too?
I'm looking forward to it as well, but not with 'glee'... more like trepedition.
I actually don't mind going to the dentist. So that's a bad analogy :P.
I may not love all the changes, and I may not even love the new setting. But I am going in, albeit hesitently, with an open mind. It is a change, something fresh to get to experience. In time, it may become to bland, at which point I may go backwards.
As it stands, the lack of forthcoming lore may very well set me off it for good. But who knows. I have a number of talent RPing friends, so we'll make the best of all outcomes.
Why not save yourself a lot of time and typing and just mail each of us a copy?
Sounds like a plan. I charge $20 an hour for the service. I'll take cash, or credit.
-RW
So... which idiot watches too much anime and decided it belonged in Faerûn?
Don't get me wrong - I love the eastern realms, and I also like anime (along with more traditional Oriental folklore), but this 'culture-clash' is just plain wrong.
I'm really afraid to see what they did to Kara-Tur, if this stuff is spilling into the west.
Maybe they stole MY idea and made Tan Chin the new Emperor of Shou-Lung. ;)
I too am interested in learning about the Seven Sisters. Thanks for the offer to share what you know, btw.
I don't see any mention of them yet. Nothing in either indexs seems to imply they are even in the book. However, if I see them in skimming, I'll edit.
-RW
Deities of 4e Realms:
[...]
No Mask? Wow, I really hope he bites the dust in Shadowrealm and it would be great if Cyric kills him (maybe after Mask tries to kill him and fails), although I assume that Shar will be the lucky one
-RW
Yakuza?!
So... which idiot watches too much anime and decided it belonged in Faerûn?
Don't get me wrong - I love the eastern realms, and I also like anime (along with more traditional Oriental folklore), but this 'culture-clash' is just plain wrong.
I'm really afraid to see what they did to Kara-Tur, if this stuff is spilling into the west.
Maybe they stole MY idea and made Tan Chin the new Emperor of Shou-Lung. ;)
To be fair, (and someone else correct me if I'm wrong) Yakuza have always been present in Kara-Tur. (This doesn't mean it's not wrong to dislike their presence over in Faerun, but...)
More precisely, there is nothing 'anime' about the presence of Yakuza in any semi-medieval Japanese-type fantasy setting, any more than it would be to see Samurai, or Martial Artists. That these things feature prominently in a lot of anime is due to the fact that they're part of Japanese culture and history, not because they're a convention of anime, per se.
Now, if we start seeing giant transforming war-golems, piloted by angst-ridden teenagers... :P
I don't see any mention of them yet. Nothing in either indexs seems to imply they are even in the book. However, if I see them in skimming, I'll edit.
-RW
Thanks Red Wizard for looking for us!
Doesn't bode well for my favourite characters though...
Yakuza?!
So... which idiot watches too much anime and decided it belonged in Faerûn?
Don't get me wrong - I love the eastern realms, and I also like anime (along with more traditional Oriental folklore), but this 'culture-clash' is just plain wrong.
I'm really afraid to see what they did to Kara-Tur, if this stuff is spilling into the west.
Maybe they stole MY idea and made Tan Chin the
new Emperor of Shou-Lung. ;)
Didn't the Yakuza exist in the Realms before now, though? I think they were in the 3E Unapproachable East supplement (could be wrong, though).
I don't see any mention of them yet. Nothing in either indexs seems to imply they are even in the book. However, if I see them in skimming, I'll edit.
-RW
Thanks for the answer, I appreciate it.
No Mask? Wow, I really hope he bites the dust in Shadowrealm and it would be great if Cyric kills him (maybe after Mask tries to kill him and fails), although I assume that Shar will be the lucky one
It's possible he's still around, just unmentioned in the FRCG. RW, the deity list doesn't claim to be exhaustive, does it?
Thanks for the answer, I appreciate it.
I think they're goners, Rino. Don't have the book just a gut feeling
With the return of Netheril, the Black Network has likely abandoned their road through Anauroch. So, since they can't expand trade westward as easily, they go east. And who controls the road east through the Hordelands? I bet it's the Nine Golden Swords yakuza clan, based in Thesk.
I think they're goners, Rino. Don't have the book just a gut feeling
Hey, I'm with you on that.
The yakuza thing actually kind of makes sense, if they did it the way I think they did...
With the return of Netheril, the Black Network has likely abandoned their road through Anauroch. So, since they can't expand trade westward as easily, they go east. And who controls the road east through the Hordelands? I bet it's the Nine Golden Swords yakuza clan, based in Thesk.
Indeed, UE showed that there is a precedent for Eastern Culture mixing with Western Culture in Faerun.
It's possible he's still around, just unmentioned in the FRCG. RW, the deity list doesn't claim to be exhaustive, does it?
There is another more extensive one I found, however Mask is missing from it as well. My guess would be he was subsumed.
-RW
Update on something I am a fan of. Titles for priests, AND what their followers are referred to as.
-RW
-New stuff, or stuff reprinted from the 2e books?
-And, yes, the Yakuza does indeed exist in Faerûn, via Kara-Tur, where they originate from.
I bet you're right.
I would guess that the events of the Spellplague forced Shar to re-subsume him. Just like what happened with Sehanine and Selune.
EDIT: I should point out that if Shar re-subsumed Mask that could put both Shar and Selune back at similar power levels that they had during the age of Netheril.
There is another more extensive one I found, however Mask is missing from it as well. My guess would be he was subsumed.
-RW
Hmm. Well, again, thanks for the information.
I've always held that Mask was really an aspect of Shar. Shar held all his portfolio's during the time of Netheril. My theory has been that, over time, the 'Mask' aspect of Shar separated from the main deity. Keep in mind also that no one knew the 'true' identity of Mask, and even his gender was in question. (However it is not uncommon for aspects of deities to have different genders.)
I would guess that the events of the Spellplague forced Shar to re-subsume him. Just like what happened with Sehanine and Selune.
It's also possible that Mask and Shar never had anything to do with each other, and she simply subsumed Mask by force.
That's all speculation, anyway.
That's all speculation, anyway.
Maybe Cale's vision of Mask stepping out of Shar's shadow to jab at Cyric was a trap by Cyric and Shar who then slew him to seal their alliance
He was one of my favorite good-aligned deities.
The yakuza thing actually kind of makes sense, if they did it the way I think they did...
With the return of Netheril, the Black Network has likely abandoned their road through Anauroch. So, since they can't expand trade westward as easily, they go east. And who controls the road east through the Hordelands? I bet it's the Nine Golden Swords yakuza clan, based in Thesk.
I'm thinking this is correct aswell, however I havn't yet read confirmation. The Nine Golden Swords are still opperating out of Westgate, and openly combating the Fireknives, so it's possible.
The shou are much more prominent around The Dragonmere, so it would stand to reason that this is where the Yakuza are deployed out of.
I noticed Ilmater is missing from that list.
He was one of my favorite good-aligned deities.
Too bad.
Although, see my previous post.I noticed Ilmater is missing from that list.
He was one of my favorite good-aligned deities.
Ilmater is still in as one of the 19 gods.
I'll update my list.
Also, Elminster has returned to his 2nd edition appearence. Not the best depiction, but a step in the right direction. He is living in a little farmhouse, greatly diminished from old, but still immortal.
-RW
It's also possible that Mask and Shar never had anything to do with each other, and she simply subsumed Mask by force.
That's all speculation, anyway.
Sure, that's possible as well. I like my version better, though. :P
I mean, after all, Shar -was- the deity of thieves and thieving in Netheril. As I said, she held all of Mask's portfolios (in addition to all the others she held).
EDIT: I should also point out that Mask had been taking a beating ever since the Time of Troubles. So he already seemed like a deity that was on the way out.
Ilmater is still in as one of the 19 gods.
I'll update my list.
Also, Elminster has returned to his 2nd edition appearence. Not the best depiction, but a step in the right direction. He is living in a little farmhouse, greatly diminished from old, but still immortal.
-RW
LOL, I actually really liked his 2E appearance.
Sure, that's possible as well. I like my version better, though. :P
It's all good.
LOL, I actually really liked his 2E appearance.
Me too. Especially on the cover of the atlas. That said, my favourite depiction (though one no longer valid) was from "Elminster in Myth Drannor". Perfectly depicted younger Elminster.
-RW
Me too. Especially on the cover of the atlas. That said, my favourite depiction (though one no longer valid) was from "Elminster in Myth Drannor". Perfectly depicted younger Elminster.
-RW
Well, even then he had that great hat.:D
Enjoy.
-RW
As I said, she held all of Mask's portfolios (in addition to all the others she held).
But don't forget that this was also partly because at that time the different human cultures all had their seperated local pantheons and the merging into the faerunian mega-pantehon had yet to begin.
So while Shar did hold these portfolios at the netherese pantheon she was most likely co-existing with dozends of other human deities holding the very same portfolios in different human pantheons
-RW
Well, I a little disappointed as they seemed have gotten ridden of finder and kept Milil. I was hoping the other way around.
The problem was finder was another of those whiney mortals turned god, that simply didn't take off as the three and Cyric managed too.
-RW
No mention of Lurue? That's very disappointing! Any mention of her at all in the book?
Nothing I've seen, and nothing in the indexs.
-RW
Nothing I've seen, and nothing in the indexs.
-RW
I figured she would be an exarch of Selune
Yakuza?!
So... which idiot watches too much anime and decided it belonged in Faerûn?
Don't get me wrong - I love the eastern realms, and I also like anime (along with more traditional Oriental folklore), but this 'culture-clash' is just plain wrong.
I'm really afraid to see what they did to Kara-Tur, if this stuff is spilling into the west.
Maybe they stole MY idea and made Tan Chin the new Emperor of Shou-Lung. ;)
You don't even have the book yet, and hence really have no idea to what extend or even what content Yakuza are mentioned. At least wait until you read more then a few lines on a website for the hysteria.
LOL...As for them being in Faerun, unless the designers changed it, Kara-Tur IS part of Toril (or is it Abeir-Toril again?) and hence at the very least a fringe part of the Forgotten Realms, so it definitely is appropriate/possible for them to have expanded their influence IMHO. 100 years ago (game time) they had a fledgling presence in the "Unapproachable East." Maybe they've branched out somewhat now.
18DELTA ;)
Mask isn't an aspect of Shar cause Kemp said he was mortal
Did he say that on some message board? Because if you are talking about what Mask said to Erevis in this backalley, Mask did neither confirm nor deny having been a mortal during this talk
-RW whats the skinny on Mystra's death per The 4E FRCG? Does it go into any details of her murder? Thank you.
18DELTA ;)
SQUADILA!!!
It is written, only you can defeat Mystra.
Thanks for Mask info. Too bad he... lost his fight with Shar. I thought that he would steal a part of her portfolio. :/
New players will buy it because they are new.
Old players who like the changes will buy it for the obvious reason.
And old players who don't like the changes will buy it just to see how bad things really are.
I am on the point of buying it myself in a "say it ain't so" way. Odd considering I have no game in the offing and that it has been nigh on confirmed that all but one of my favourite characters have met their end... and I doubt in a fashion I would be happy with.
Did he say that on some message board? Because if you are talking about what Mask said to Erevis in this backalley, Mask did neither confirm nor deny having been a mortal during this talk
I don't remember where did I get this from, maybe it's from the novel
18DELTA :P
Thanks for Mask info. Too bad he... lost his fight with Shar. I thought that he would steal a part of her portfolio. :/
We don't know the details about Mask yet, we only know that he's not there.
-
18DELTA :P
Show
In-joke. Zelda videos.;)
I am on the point of buying it myself in a "say it ain't so" way. Odd considering I have no game in the offing and that it has been nigh on confirmed that all but one of my favourite characters have met their end... and I doubt in a fashion I would be happy with.
Consider buying it second-hand if you want the book but don't want to directly "vote with your dollar" for the changes.
ShowIn-joke. Zelda videos.;)
-Oh. I never played the Zelda Games.
18DELTA ;)
I was talking about the silly videos I always post here.
Consider buying it second-hand if you want the book but don't want to directly "vote with your dollar" for the changes.
Oh, if I buy it then it is going to be second hand... or I might just camp in Borders with a coffee...
I have to admit to having a minor hope... that they don't talk about the Sisters at all. Ed, with his pass to write about the past, could then merrily spin tales for us about their latter days and possible passing... without the need to blow up gods or sunder cities...
Now that would make me almost as happy as having them still around.
Old players who like the changes will buy it for the obvious reason.And old players who don't like the changes will buy it just to see how bad things really are.
no I won't, there are other ways
anyway I spent enough money on all Pathfinder products
looking at the deity list this is a complete disaster, of all gods they kept Vaprak, the dumb god, ideal for new players
looking at the deity list this is a complete disaster, of all gods they kept Vaprak, the dumb god, ideal for new players
Nice.
Updated the deity list. Sorry for the missing ones before. All are there now.
Except Loviatar.
The only one I wish had made it was Helm.
Even Thard Harr made it, which is hilarious. :P
I can't wait to get my hands on the new FRCS so I can pour over it.
Gods for now, more later when I get to read :D.
Deities of 4e Realms:
[...]
-RW
... *sniff*... MASK..? I know it's been touched on but I still feel a need for a moment of silence.
Exarchs/ Demigods:
Fzoul Chembryl
Obould
Primordials:
...Dendar...Kezef...
-All of this = uncool.
-I hope Fzoul is the deity of evil mustaches, though.
-And, now I am surprised that Drizzt and/or Elminster aren't in that list.
-And, I guess Nobanion is just plan ol' dead.
Except Loviatar.
I honestly don't know how this happened.
I remember writing both Ilmater, and Loviatar on that list, yet somehow they were deleted. The two before and after somehow became joined, which leads me to believe somehow they were highlighted, and backspace was it.
-RW
With Cyric in a 1000 years of imprisonment is there any difference in being a priest of Cyric compared to the other gods??
He remains imprisoned in his plane, slowly becomming more insane than previously implied. His priest don't suffer for his absense, though it makes remark toward questioning why any would wish to follow him.
Additionally, it makes reference to the Cyrinishad, implying the books continued existence.
-RW
I was talking about the silly videos I always post here.
-Yep I am totally unkewl.
18DELTA ;)
Unlike previous editions, not only CAN WE ignore the lore, but it's almost as if they are pushing us in that direction.
Very clever of WotC - they figured if they created terrible official lore, people would have no choice but to ignore canon, which was their diabolic plan all along (in order to push their "one rules to rule them all" manifesto).
There are no canon settings, merely splatbooks with options. :D
We can cherry-pick at will, and create our own Frankensteined-version.
In 4e, NOTHING is canon.
-You're outlook is quite interesting.
A summation of the information given is that they are once more predominantly Cyricists, with a few remaining Banites and Bane sympathizers.
Orbakh/ Manshoon now heads them out of his new fortress of Stormwatch. With Fzoul ascended, he now has full control of the organization.
-RW
A summation of the information given is that they are once more predominantly Cyricists, with a few remaining Banites and Bane sympathizers.
Wow, just wow
I was really anti-4e-FR but WotC really knows how to win me over :D
PS: I always said the cyrist western branch of the Zhentarim would kick the ass of the banite eastern branch :D
Or what territory the Shades control?
Anything more on Alusair/Calednei?
Anything more on Alusair/Calednei?
I am guessing dead and deader. Especially since the Backdrop article gave someone else as being Mage Royal.
Pity, I liked those two.
so here goes some more data.---
---
I can't find stats on any characters (elminster, drizzt, etc)
Ao - Yes, Ao is mentioned on page 74..... The Hidden One.. Basically he is like a Lady of Pain character...(or like Asmodeus/Jazirian in 2E)...above the gods..outside of pantheons...unlimited powers, etc.
Princes of shade - it says 12 princes of shade rule from the Enclave...can't find names yet.
Fzoul Chembryl - lvl 28 elite cotroller (leader) - he doesn't apppear to be a wizard ...more like a pure creature with the leader type...Says, after his death, he serves bane as an exarch
the main layout for the land, is like, various sections that detail parts of the planet. THey are varrying from 2 to 3 pages with some topics like features/settlements, adventure sites, the data isn't super detailed..good for high level info...but i would flesh it out with 2E/3E materials and adjust based on he spellplague effects.
About Abeir - basically, gods took Toril, primordials took Abeir...both worlds/realities combined during the spellplague...
- i haven;t seen mention of chosen other than in a blurb about elminster
- Warlock's Keep is still on the map, so I imagine Larloch (although not mentioned) may still be the most powerful on the planet.. (if not, inmy own games I will add him back and make him a unique character at level 35 or 40 or whatever I wish)
- Is there any mention of Azuth or Velsharoon? --- I do not see mention of these in the index...
More later..will eat first
sanjay
18DELTA
In my other thread I was asked about evermeet, eltab, mystra, mask:
Evermeet - it's still there. the portals to/from it are all gone (except maybe a few) so many think the place was whipped out. It is not. pg 132/133 are all about it. evermeet was teleported into the feywild with a echo of it on the planet. the echo appears just like the original. However, it states the last 8 dragons of evermeet, in isla sumbrar were killed or teleported somewhere else in the spellplague..now only creatures live in the ruins of that island...
(my take on this)..since they aren't really on the planet anymore, they don't need the elves having an army of dragon riders..yet, so why not remove them from the storyline :P hehe
Eltab- nothing I can find...but will look again (not in index so will have to read over stuff)
Mystra - just says that Cyric murdered her..Weave is just another term for magic now.
Spellscars - it says the players guide will have more info on spellscars. i cant' find stats on themhere. says it happens when you go close to the lands affected via the plague.
Can't find info on Mask.
More later.
ADDED: whati find from the book...for FR nuts..it's good if you want to be official. If you used all the original info and the people, etc...u will be sad, since alot of stuff is gone and if you loved the old stuff, this new stuff may not be detailed enough to make any sense (in terms of continuity...even a fantasy world has continuity unless you dm one of my chronomantic campaigns :P ) hehe
if you are like me, and you like some stuff, dont care for the rest..this is good...since i can take from 2e sources or 3e, edit/change whatever i like in 4e and use whatever i like as is...i have no real hardcore yearning for FR as others do..but i like the settings in D&D overall (FR, Darksun, planescape being my fav, etc) so for me, the source books for the main settings are useful.
Sanjay
18DELTA
-Ha they turned Evermeet into a Dungeon! Priceless!!!! :P
18DELTA
Is it just me or is this now screaming Myth Drannor 2! Now with 100% less phaerimm!
Wow, just wow
I was really anti-4e-FR but WotC really knows how to win me over :D
PS: I always said the cyrist western branch of the Zhentarim would kick the ass of the banite eastern branch :D
That just drove me further away.
Bane = cool ...... Cyric = Mentally Challenged
And Fzoul's an Exarch?
Does he have a bunch of cheesy mustache-twirling followers?
And Nobanion is nowhere to be seen, despite BRJ's best efforts to keep him in.
They also said Ao wouldn't be mentioned - more of one hand not knowing what the other is talking about.
-You're outlook is quite interesting.
indeed - for it is canon; but allow levy for DM to make things. The so-called Rule 0 and the Eberron's 'make it your world' idea.
Elves changed the world one (some?) time, it's fair that this get to them too.
bane and Cyric are egaly (un)cool. One is a psycho Loki figure, the other a general Dark Lord figure. So, as far as creativity go, it's chat blanc, blanc chat.
-Boy Alediran is going to flip out when he see's this mess! :embarrass
18DELTA :D
And does this mean that Tymora didn't survive either? How will that work into the LFR game, since one specifically concerns Tymora.
-Boy Alediran is going to flip out when he see's this mess! :embarrass
No kidding, this burns and stings me and I have been able to keep a fairly close rein on my fury...
...Alediran is going to go out of his mind.
Nuclear bunker anyone?
Ergo, what is true today, may not be true tomorrow, and if canon is fluid, and not set in stone, then canon is a fallacy that doesn't really exist except in our own minds.
Buy the FRCG, and make it your own - I intend to. But DON'T buy the novels - they are full of pretentious, setting-destroying lies that only confuse your players.
Besides - from what I've seen so far, it doesn't look like they spent more then a day or two working on that FRCG. ;)
bane and Cyric are egaly (un)cool. One is a psycho Loki figure, the other a general Dark Lord figure. So, as far as creativity go, it's chat blanc, blanc chat.
True, but the way I run things, an intelligent, plotting evil (Bane) is far more useful to me IG then an Uber-psycho.
:headexplo :headexplo :headexplo :headexplo 
18DELTA ;)
Sanjay
So what did it say about the 13 Vindicators on the Ironfell Court? Did they have enough time to squeeze our stuff into Cannon?
It will probably end up in a DDi article. ;)
-RW
So what did it say about the 13 Vindicators on the Ironfell Court? Did they have enough time to squeeze our stuff into Cannon?
What you saw in the excert, is all you get.
-RW
;) :D
What you saw in the excert, is all you get.
-RW
Nothing under the Vassa entry, either?
They say essentially that while a deity is capable of having chosen, their powers very from god to god, and there are currently none known in the Realms.
Does that mean that the Chosen still exist, just not as Chosen since their Goddess (who chose them) is dead... or that all of the Chosen of Gods/Goddesses who are no longer around are all dead?
If it is the latter then I may well be forced to use the "censored" smilie for the first and last time (I hope).
Does Fzoul and Obould have portfolios?
It grew so big, it became a demi-plane and floated away.
;) :D
:D
What about Ironfang Keep (that funny fortress up on the Moonsea)? And any info about Abeir would be nice, too.
Btw: Who the frakk is Zehir?
Nothing under the Vassa entry, either?
No nothing. A brief blurb about the regions they control, and how some control more territory than others.
-RW
Does that mean that the Chosen still exist, just not as Chosen since their Goddess (who chose them) is dead... or that all of the Chosen of Gods/Goddesses who are no longer around are all dead?
If it is the latter then I may well be forced to use the "censored" smilie for the first and last time (I hope).
All chosen are either dead, or ascended to Exarch/ Demigod status.
-RW
All chosen are either dead, or ascended to Exarch/ Demigod status.
-RW
-Wow! :embarrass
18DELTA
Could you post the official portfolios of the gods please? I wanted to know what changed since the spellplague....
Does Fzoul and Obould have portfolios?
They have "spheres", instead of portfolios now. Obould has "Warriors" and Fzoul has "Service to evil"
-RW
Hey just need to ask, do they have anything on the types of creatures spawned or changed by the spellplague? I think someone already asked but I didn't see an answer so anything about spellscars?
As far as I know, there are no stats, however I have had little to no time to read anything thoroughly yet. ;):P
-RW
All chosen are either dead, or ascended to Exarch/ Demigod status.
-RW
Well,
!I hope their badgers die in a freak yachting accident are misidentified and cremated like common weasels!
...
Ok, all better now.
Fzoul has "Service to evil"
Hm, he better hopes that Cyric doesn't ask for his help just to see if he'll be true to his sphere :D
baldur's gate - luskan and neverwinter are in ruins...baldurs gate survived well and is now the most populated city in the realms.
I found the simbul - page 88 - she is alive and resides in the dalelands..still mentions she is a powerful mage
Sanjay
Btw: Who the frakk is Zehir?
A core deity - of serpents - that was shoe-horned in at the last minute because of Neverwinter Nights II: Storm of Zehir.
Zehir wasn't supposed to be in the Realms - thats why we got Sseth. They had to go back and add him after the realized Atari was using Zehir - a core god.
So we got him because someone screwed up.
Now we have redundent gods - Zehir and Sseth, which wasn't supposed to happen in 4e.
Only a couple months out, and already the mistakes are piling up...
A core deity - of serpents - that was shoe-horned in at the last minute because of Neverwinter Nights II: Storm of Zehir.
-Considering that Neverwinter is a ruin now WTF!
18DELTA :embarrass
I found the simbul - page 88 - she is alive and resides in the dalelands..still mentions she is a powerful mage
Thanks Sanjay!
Though I do have to ask... who says the what now?
With the stated reasoning for Chosen-icide being to remove the overwhelmingly powerful NPCs... glad as I am that at least Alassra is alive... why did they, of all of the Seven, keep the most powerful and least personable?
Or is that the reason? She is such the loon that if she is camped out with El in his farmhouse that noone will go near them for fear of getting toasted by one or both and thus neatly excising them from the setting?
-Considering that Neverwinter is a ruin now WTF!
Maybe it's a ruin because of Zehir's storm? I wonder what would have been the difficulty with just switching any mentioning of Zehir with Sseth. Maybe the voice recording was already done?
With the stated reasoning for Chosen-icide being to remove the overwhelmingly powerful NPCs... glad as I am that at least Alassra is alive... why did they, of all of the Seven, keep the most powerful and least personable?
She probably spends most of her time wet-nursing a drooling Elminster...
I guess some things never change.
-All of this = uncool.
-I hope Fzoul is the deity of evil mustaches, though.
-And, now I am surprised that Drizzt and/or Elminster aren't in that list.
Fzoul and Obloud were already Exarchs of their dieties in 3E already, so no real change there (except that the proper title these types get in 4E)
Elminster was essentially one in 3E, but with Mystra gone, he can't exactly be her Exarch now can he? :D
Thanks Sanjay!
Though I do have to ask... who says the what now?
With the stated reasoning for Chosen-icide being to remove the overwhelmingly powerful NPCs... glad as I am that at least Alassra is alive... why did they, of all of the Seven, keep the most powerful and least personable?
Or is that the reason? She is such the loon that if she is camped out with El in his farmhouse that noone will go near them for fear of getting toasted by one or both and thus neatly excising them from the setting?
-She's in The Dales, maybe she is whupping up on Shar's Goons/lackeys now!
Mystra's dead AND SIMBUL'S ******!!!! :D 18DELTA
Elminster was essentially one in 3E, but with Mystra gone, he can't exactly be her Exarch now can he? :D
Sure he can.
If Chosen = Arch, then people who are no longer chosen are ex-Arches. :D
But that would mean Obould and Fzoul are really just Arches.
-All of this = uncool.
Pretty Much.
-I hope Fzoul is the deity of evil mustaches, though.
From what I understand, he no longer kills people within the Realms - he first teleports them to Eberron, so he can tie them to the railroad tracks.
Even he is unsure why he does this...
-And, now I am surprised that Drizzt and/or Elminster aren't in that list.
becausae they are WAY kewler then that!
They are Extremearchs!
-And, I guess Nobanion is just plan ol' dead.
Nobanion is a good banion, I suppose...
She probably spends most of her time wet-nursing a drooling Elminster...
I guess some things never change.
I imagine she is a much humbler sorceress now, as one would assume she is as diminshed with Mystras death as our drooling old friend is. Little more than a run of the mill wizard, who happens to retain immortality.
Add to this, the spoiler for the final Thay novel in regards to Tams power, and the mention of a Thayan presense in Aglarond, and we can deduce she isn't what she once was.
-RW
You know, like the way she looked on the cover of Spellbound.
I imagine she is a much humbler sorceress now, as one would assume she is as diminshed with Mystras death as our drooling old friend is. Little more than a run of the mill wizard, who happens to retain immortality.
Add to this, the spoiler for the final Thay novel in regards to Tams power, and the mention of a Thayan presense in Aglarond, and we can deduce she isn't what she once was.
-RW
-Thay controls Aglarond? I guess this makes you happy huh RED WIZARD!
-What abouy XXIPHU or how ever you spell it. What about Stardeep? What about the Deep Imaskari?
18DELTA
-RW
I added Spheres for all the Greater Gods, and Gods, and a couple of the Exarchs. I'll do more later, or tomorrow. Honestly, it's not on my list of must do things, to fill out forms the day I get the book. ;)
-RW
-Thats what you get for starting this thread and rubbing it in to all of us! :P Thanks BTW! :D
18DELTA ;)
How is the Vast?
Any hope I had for 4e FR depends on the outcome of this.
(I bolded my question to make it stand out from the general discussion.)
He is officially dead.
When he was shunted from dweomerheart, he landed in the 9th with Asmodeus. Asmodeus slew him, and stole his power. Apparently he was once a god cast down, and this was his chance to regain divinity.
-RW
F
Wither Talos? I guess this greater diety was so disrespected, he didn't even show up in 6 pages of discussion. I'm severly disappointed.
F
Gruumsh killed him and stole his stuff.
Bel
It's called freedom of expression. As with any change to an established setting, people are going to be both pro and con. If you want the freedom to be happy with the changes and post as much, realize that those unhappy have the same right as long as respect is given to the board and posters.
Wither Talos? I guess this greater diety was so disrespected, he didn't even show up in 6 pages of discussion. I'm severly disappointed.
It's more likely that he doesn't show up because his faith has been announced by one of the designers some days ago.
They retconned him and Gruumsh to have been different aspects of the same entity with Gruumsh being the dominant one who decided to reabsorb Talos in order to collect himself to weather the spellplague.
So it hasn't been discussed here because it has already been discussed (no one liked it IIRC)
"motes" are pieces of land that are floating in the air like islands.
With 4e having scaled back the potency of Flight, how is one supposed to... Reach the various motes?
-RW
In one of the threada, information on the Zhents was requested.
A summation of the information given is that they are once more predominantly Cyricists, with a few remaining Banites and Bane sympathizers.
Orbakh/ Manshoon now heads them out of his new fortress of Stormwatch. With Fzoul ascended, he now has full control of the organization.
-RW
Where's Stormwatch?
All chosen are either dead, or ascended to Exarch/ Demigod status.
-RW
Awesome...
They have "spheres", instead of portfolios now. Obould has "Warriors" and Fzoul has "Service to evil"
-RW
*snort!*
Iluvrien: Cheer up--remember you don't need to implement these changes in your Realms.
-Considering that Neverwinter is a ruin now WTF!
18DELTA :embarrass
Remember that the NWN games are still 3E and pre-Spellplague. That said I think the news about the city's fate does suck.
The Vast..is that the Vast Swamp? if so, the swamp is a very rough area...lizardmen, dragins, trolls, gnolls, etc.... it's the deadliest area within Cormyr...
Sanjay
How could she not be humbler? 4.0 magic is so weak you can barely light a candle with it.
I like 4E, but I have to admit that gave me a laugh.
great stuff. Too bad some people can't keep from coming here and ripping on every excerpt. We get it, some of you don't like the changes. Some of the rest of us would like to read about the book, without the constant negativity, from the same people over and over.
Just for your information, everyone is allowed to give their opinions on this forum. See Lord Karsus (the forum lead) and the CoC for details.
hm..nothing in the index on Tyr...
The Vast..is that the Vast Swamp? if so, the swamp is a very rough area...lizardmen, dragins, trolls, gnolls, etc.... it's the deadliest area within Cormyr...
Sanjay
He meant "The Vast" as in the area towards the Eastern Realms on the Sea of Fallen Stars with a bunch of independent cities (in 3E, anyway) like Tantas, Phlan, Procampur, etc.
Also, Stormwatch stands between Westgate, and the Ruins of Starmantle. Something you might need the map to see.
-RW
Jarlaxle is statted as a 21st level elite skirmisher.
Also, stormwatch stands between Westgate, and the Ruins of Starmantle. Something you might need the map to see.
-RW
Thanks for the heads-up.
!Update on Azuth!
He is officially dead.
When he was shunted from dweomerheart, he landed in the 9th with Asmodeus. Asmodeus slew him, and stole his power. Apparently he was once a god cast down, and this was his chance to regain divinity.
-RW
lame
Jarlaxle is statted as a 21st level elite skirmisher.
Also, Stormwatch stands between Westgate, and the Ruins of Starmantle. Something you might need the map to see.
-RW
Stormwatch. My favorite Image comic from way back when
Shar: Shadows
Awesome! The goddess who hates light and loves darkness now rules over something that could never exist without light.:P
Awesome! The goddess who hates light and loves darkness now rules over something that could never exist without light.:P
Let's be fair for a second. True darkness only exists in a void, and since we know that doesn't exist, as it's what Shar still wants, she can hardly rule over it. ;)
-RW
I also like many aspects of 4.0. Sadly, the magic system is the one part I do not like as it takes away the flavor of a wizard. Do not get me wrong, rituals are very nice; but taking away 99.9% of spells and making spellbooks obsolete detracts from my enjoyment of the new system. Which is why I injected 3.5 magic back into my game. My group calls our system 3.75
.Iluvrien: Cheer up--remember you don't need to implement these changes in your Realms.
Sadly at the moment I don't have a Realms. Thanks to having a doctoral thesis to write and having only just tracked down a local gaming group recently I don't have a game to play.. just novels. And I don't get to choose what goes in those.. sadly.
I shall remain chipper if not hopeful. Ed is still writing after all... and who knows, maybe one day I will be able to play any version of D&D again (not since 1997 and even then it was just a few sessions). ;)
Rinonalyrna,
I also like many aspects of 4.0. Sadly, the magic system is the one part I do not like as it takes away the flavor of a wizard. Do not get me wrong, rituals are very nice; but taking away 99.9% of spells and making spellbooks obsolete detracts from my enjoyment of the new system. Which is why I injected 3.5 magic back into my game. My group calls our system 3.75
How is that even remotely balanced?
Of course, I don't disagree that they made the wizard a 'weaker' class. However, it has certainly become more balanced in 4E, IMO. It also makes sense in the Realms with the destruction of the Weave, that magic is now not what it once was.
Halruaa is a magic blased wasteland....poisonous fumes, blue fire effects, etc.
Something that has me very upset, Maztica, Zakhara, Kara-Tur are not on the map....these other continents are not included at all
I dont see Phlan around the sea of fallen stars map within the book...
Regards,
Sanjay
Wow. I am sure I don't have anything to say on that which has not already been said. My.
F
Actually it is easily balanced if you adjust the damage the spells are capable of doing and keep it in alignment with the 4.0 damage/duration/saves for powers. I would be happy to share the adjustments with anyone. I should have added in the previous post that I have only added elements of 3.5 magic back into the game and ensured that the overpowering aspect is still gone. Allowing wizards to retain the spells they learned at lower levels while adding and creating new ones makes more sense than saying you can only learn a set number of spells forever. That was the province of the sorcerer not the mage. However, that is only my opinion and my groups. The house rule has been playtested and works well so far. I would also argue that magic (now unfettered by controls) might very well prove to be stronger and more like it was during the days of netheril.
He meant "The Vast" as in the area towards the Eastern Realms on the Sea of Fallen Stars with a bunch of independent cities (in 3E, anyway) like Tantas, Phlan, Procampur, etc.
That's the one, east of the Dragon Reach, opposite Sembia/Dalelands/Cormanthor, just before one gets to Impiltur. The area around the cities of Calaunt, Tantras, Ravens Bluff Procampur, Tsurlagol.
What I regard as the last unadulterated area of the classic Realms. Though I didn't realise it was so obscure.
Phlan isn't there though, that's on the Moonsea.
.1) Is there any mention of changes for the Red Wizards and Thay?
2) any mention of the brown-skinned "dark elves" and if they just use elf stats?
Thanks for the excerpts/updates. I was totally opposed to buying this product, until WotC started posting excerpts. Now, I'm leaning toward buying, but I won't know until I see it. It is a weak buy for me right now.
Ilmater is still in as one of the 19 gods.
I'll update my list.
Also, Elminster has returned to his 2nd edition appearence. Not the best depiction, but a step in the right direction. He is living in a little farmhouse, greatly diminished from old, but still immortal.
-RW
Bah... Gandalf has returned I see.
That's the one, east of the Dragon Reach, opposite Sembia/Dalelands/Cormanthor, just before one gets to Impiltur. The area around the cities of Calaunt, Tantras, Ravens Bluff Procampur, Tsurlagol.
What I regard as the last unadulterated area of the classic Realms. Though I didn't realise it was so obscure.
Phlan isn't there though, that's on the Moonsea.
Rich mentioned months ago that Sembian exiles escaping Shade domination moved to the Vast. So I doubt the Vast remained untouched by the influence of the Spellplague and the Shades. Certainly the increased Sembian influence should have some affect on them. I'm interested in seeing how they turned out also.
Fzoul and Obloud were already Exarchs of their dieties in 3E already, so no real change there (except that the proper title these types get in 4E)
Elminster was essentially one in 3E, but with Mystra gone, he can't exactly be her Exarch now can he? :D
-I corrected you on this matter in another thread, but I guess it was glossed over. Exarches are not Chosen. Exarches are deities in 3e, 2e, and 1e who have been "demoted" to a "saint"-like status, not exactly a deity anymore, but serving some other, more powerful, deity. Chosen (if they exist) continue to be Chosen.
-And, King Obould Many-Arrows is/was not a Chosen of Gruumsh.
!Update on Azuth!
He is officially dead.
When he was shunted from dweomerheart, he landed in the 9th with Asmodeus. Asmodeus slew him, and stole his power. Apparently he was once a god cast down, and this was his chance to regain divinity.
-RW
-Uh...But AGHotR says that Azuth and Velsharron were shunted to the Astral Plane, not The Nine Hells. Is a little consistency really that hard? Seriously...
-Uh...But AGHotR says that Azuth and Velsharron were shunted to the Astral Plane, not The Nine Hells. Is a little consistency really that hard? Seriously...
umm.... the 4e wizard did it.
Also, Stormwatch stands between Westgate, and the Ruins of Starmantle. Something you might need the map to see.
-RW
-Whats left of the Sea of Falling Stars?
18DELTA
umm.... the 4e wizard did it.
-The 4e Gnome. ;)
-RW
-Whats left of the Sea of Falling Stars?
18DELTA
Scarce little. It's really strange looking at the map now. It's similar, but in many regions drastically different.
-RW
At least that brings an end to the Shar-Lolth merger speculation.
Yea thankfully! It would have been a BIG mistake to combine them.
How come Shar has Shadows instead of Darkness??
Any mention of Psionics or Auppenser?
None that I saw. They have said Psionics will make it into DnD eventually, but not in the near future.
-RW
18DELTA ;)
Yea thankfully! It would have been a BIG mistake to combine them.
How come Shar has Shadows instead of Darkness??
It makes more sense, as all darkness is in truth shadow. Until the universe returns to a void state (That which Shar desires), true darkness doesn't exist. So it'd make little sense for her to draw power from nothing.
-RW
Gnomes aren't a playable race, but Garl Glittergold is a deity option for LFR?
Well one, they are; two, they might be core after PHII comes out; and three, there doesn't seem to be anything stopping other races from worshiping him.
Gnomes aren't a playable race, but Garl Glittergold is a deity option for LFR? I thought they would have tried to streamline that a bit.
There is speculation that the Gnome will be presented in the PHB II and it was stated that the FR books would contain PHB races & classes.
Bel
I actually think they could have cut down that deities list further, but it seems that they were trying to keep as many as they could.
yeah I am VERY surprised that the deity list is so long. I was expecting at the most half of the final result.
Too bad no psionic mention or Auppenser.
there doesn't seem to be anything stopping other races from worshiping him.
True enough. From his stated sphere of influence, Garl looks to be the new Helm. Maybe Baravar Cloakshadow is the new Mask.
Did they purposefully try to think up as many ways they could destroy everything about the Realms that people actually liked (the rich history and continuity?), and turn it into some generic amorphous blob of a modern "fantasy" setting? (dragon people and demon people as standard damn races? My God what's next, will they be having having cat-girls and werewolves as standard races now, too??)
The FRCS was absolutely the finest RPG setting book I have ever seen, and what do they offer us in it's place now? They gut it, defecate on it's corpse, set fire to it, urinate on it's memory, and replace it with a damn pamphlet that they try to shill to us at full price.
But, then again, I guess the exact same thing could be said of 4E in general.
Sadly, I fear I'll very seldom be playing D&D again. My DM is one of those "absolutely by the book" types, and now that 4E has come out that is what he feels that he MUST run... but even [i]he[i/] has already told me that he won't be touching the steaming pile of offal that is the 4E Realms with a 10 foot pole. But he's also said we won't ever return to running 3E because it's "too cumbersome."
My only hope of ever playing D&D again now is the fact that he said he WILL be running a 1E AD&D game before too long, but for no he's running a 4E game that I'm stuck with suffering through (or else being stuck with NO role-playing games AT ALL.) The first 1E game he is going torun is going to be a Greyhawk game (which suits me just FINE) but I'm hoping that I can convince him to run a 1R Realms game too.
I'll be doing ANYTHING and EVERYTHING I can to persuade him from running 4E anymore, and he continues to insist on it I'm afraid that I will be quitting playing at all rather than continue to play a game that I neither enjoy nor appreciate. I find 4E to be a grotesque mockery of D&D, and the 4E Realms especially.
-I corrected you on this matter in another thread, but I guess it was glossed over.
Umm.... seeing as how I've never discussed this before, I don't see how that is possible :P
-Uh...But AGHotR says that Azuth and Velsharron were shunted to the Astral Plane, not The Nine Hells. Is a little consistency really that hard? Seriously...
The Nine Hells are in the Astral Sea. Either way, poor Azuth.
Gnomes aren't a playable race, but Garl Glittergold is a deity option for LFR? I thought they would have tried to streamline that a bit.
Gnomes are currently a playable option with an RPGA Rewards Card. And they'll be fully playable (I.E. Anyone will be able to play them, not just those with the card) when the PHB2 comes out. Remember, not playable now doesn't mean they will never be playable.
-FR Players Guide Excerpts: Warlock Dark PactShowIn today’s Forgotten Realms Player's Guide preview, we describe a new warlock eldritch pact available to choose from when you create a warlock.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You have forged a pact with the dark beings that lurk in the shadows of the drow civilization. Spells of darkness, poison, madness, and spite fill your mind. You might turn your powers to noble ends, but you always face the temptation to enhance your spells by hurting your friends—just a little.
Download the Dark Pact excerpt (304 Kbs PDF)
Download the Dark Pact illo (239 Kbs JPG)
Additional powers:
Level 10 Utility Spells
Darkest MirrorWarlock (Dark) Utility 10A dark membrane snaps shut over your eyes. They reflect another world now, filled with shadows and spectral foes.EncounterArcane
Minor Action PersonalEffect: Until the end of the encounter, you can see invisible creatures as if they were not invisible. All other creatures, including your allies, are invisible to you. You can end this effect on your turn as a minor action.
Level 13 Encounter Spells
All Must SacrificeWarlock (Dark) Attack 13The spell cuts with a jagged black ray—and if your allies donate their pain, it punches deeper.EncounterArcane, Implement, Necrotic
Standard Action Ranged 20
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs. ReflexHit: 2d8 + Charisma modifier necrotic damage. You can choose to deal 1d8 damage to each ally within 3 squares of you to deal 1d8 extra damage with this power for each ally who takes damage.Dark Pact: You instead deal an extra 1d10 damage for each ally that takes damage.
Level 25 Daily Spells
Ring of TormentWarlock (Dark) Attack 25Your will compresses a tiny fragment of the hells into a ball of darkness, madness, and torment. Then you share.DailyArcane, Implement, Necrotic, Psychic
Standard Action Ranged 20
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs. WillHit: 4d8 + Charisma modifier necrotic damage, and ongoing 10 psychic damage (save ends).Aftereffect: You choose a second creature within 20 squares of you and deal ongoing 5 psychic damage to it (save ends). The first time that creature fails a saving throw against this ongoing damage, you choose a third creature within 20 squares of you and deal ongoing 5 psychic damage to it (save ends).Miss: Half damage, and ongoing 10 poison damage (save ends). This ongoing damage does not spread.Dark Pact: Add your Intelligence modifier to the ongoing damage.
As for a replacement for Helm, I would have thought Gorm would be the best fit, but he's dead too, before Helm bit Tyr's sword even. I'm interested to see who picks up Helm's slack. Is it really Garl?
You can play gnome now in 4E.
Now? Is that somehow changed from before 4E was released? Is there enough already in the 4E Core Rule Books I to play them?
Now? Is that somehow changed from before 4E was released? Is there enough already in the 4E Core Rule Books I to play them?
Yep. They're statted up in the 4E Monster Manual. They're just not available for RPGA play because the Monster Manual PC races aren't open for regular play. In addition, it doesn't have a list of available Racial Feats. But it is playable.
Gnomes were always playable in 4E. Check the MM. Racial feats should not determine if you play a race or not.
Keep them coming, Red Wizard, and btw, thanks for all the work. Sounds good so far!
How could she not be humbler? 4.0 magic is so weak you can barely light a candle with it.
My wizard rocked face tonight. Magic in 4e is still very nice and useful. Just balanced and fun for everyone. Except powergamers. :D
Yes, thank you guys for supplying all of this info. I appraciate it.
18DELTA ;)
1) What's the current state of the Cult of the Dragon, where are they located, how many pages are devoted to them?
2) Any monster stats in the FRCG, if so, which ones?
3) Any NPC's stated beyond level and role?
Thanks again,
Teo:D
Also, if there's more to the gods then just those oneword portfolios, any chance you can list them? For instance, what're their alignments? Are there any other portofolios aside from Cyric = War, Bane = Tyranny, etc? Thanks a bunch!
Still undecided on 4e in general, and on 4e FR. The excerpts didn't quite set me on fire but we'll see.
I appreciate the efforts of the FR design team in any event, and Mr. Baker for keeping us informed along the way.
LAWFUL GOOD
Amaunator
Berronar Truesilver
Chauntea
Moradin
Torm
GOOD
Angharradh
Bahamut
Corellon
Garl Glittergold
Ilmater
Mielikki
Selune
Sheela Peryroyl
Sune
Tymora
UNALIGNED
Gond
Kelemvor
Oghma
Silvanus
Tempus
Waukeen
A couple surprises, there. For one, I wasn't expecting Amaunator to be Lawful Good. Thought he'd be Unaligned or Good. Secondly, Chauntea has become Lawful Good. Lastly, Ilmater has gone from Lawful Good to just plain Good. Guess that's what happens when you spend to much time hanging out in Brightwater. Also interesting to note that, while Corellon is Unaligned in Core, he's Good in the Realms. So the Eldreth Veluuthra are still SOOL.
More lack of cohesion - they say one thing, and then do something to prove it false.
Corellon should be un-aligned - he's a right bastard.
They are one of my favorite organizations. I think now that the Evermeet elves have mostly retreated into the Feywild the EV should be given control of Myth Drannor, to launch attacks against everyone in the region. Besides, the Eldreth Veluuthra represents what every Elf is deep down. ;) It's a secret desire type of thing. I can imagine the Eldreth maybe allowing the returning Dark Elves (who transformed from Drow) to join their ranks. Ideas of Elven purity and superiority are long standing traits held by Drow, and it is hard to imagine that they would not find a group like EV interesting, especially since Lolthite society is not going to welcome them back.
So yeah, I reiterate: Let the Eldreth Veluuthra control Myth Drannor and harbor goals of retaking Evermeet!
EDIT: I should say it feels like it sucks the flavor right out of the gods. They feel very bland, like the deities from the core.
They really seem to have gone back to a lot of old concepts with this edition.
!Update on Azuth!
He is officially dead.
When he was shunted from dweomerheart, he landed in the 9th with Asmodeus. Asmodeus slew him, and stole his power. Apparently he was once a god cast down, and this was his chance to regain divinity.
-Uh...But AGHotR says that Azuth and Velsharron were shunted to the Astral Plane, not The Nine Hells. Is a little consistency really that hard? Seriously...
It's comments and attitude like this on continuity that push authors to nuke a world & setting rather than try to update it.
Are there monster stats in the book? How many?
Gods for now, more later when I get to read :D.
Exarchs/ Demigods: Ascended mortals mainly, some have mortal worshippers
Hoar
__________________________________________________________________
Enjoy, or blast as you will. ;)
-RW
Hoar! *pumps fist*
Who's he serve? *prays it's not Shar*
I'm glad you're enjoying your mage. My opinion comes from comparing a 4.0 wizard to that of a 3.5. For example, let's say you have an elven mage. They could easily have lived through the spellplague and experienced both forms of magic. Now, take having the spellbooks you used before the spellplague and now realize you can not memorize most of those spells anymore. You also can not add spells as you adventure (save leveling and retraining), or trade with other wizards. Adding insult to injury, when you gain new spells your old ones "magically" erase themselves from your book. So if you take on an apprentice, you can not even demonstrate most of the spells they would want to learn.
Then we have Rituals. While the idea is great, let's look closer. You're in combat, you need to unlock a door to escape certain death. Do not worry, I can open it..in 10 minutes. The time and money factor break most of the rituals. Also, whereas rituals would seem the province of magic users, heck no. Warriors, Warlords, Rangers, etc, train a feat and you too can cast them.
My point is that if you are a new player, 4.0 can be a great game. However, wizards no longer have anything unique as all classes have powers (lets call them spells) and can all cast rituals if trained. While some might think wizards were OP, an effective DM could easily remove any spells they deemed too powerful or lower the damage output of the spells. So let's not label all people unhappy with the changes as being powergamers. Perhaps we just did not like all the lore being stripped from the class. Unfortunately, stripping lore is the trend in the new rules and setting. I like most of 4.0, it has some great ideas, but you can definitely tell that while they worked to improve the other classes, their goal was to depower wizards and they went a little too far IMO.
Respectfully,
KZ
Then we have Rituals. While the idea is great, let's look closer. You're in combat, you need to unlock a door to escape certain death. Do not worry, I can open it..in 10 minutes.
As it should be. Otherwise what would be the point of Rogues (and Warlocks) with the Thievery skill?
Also, whereas rituals would seem the province of magic users, heck no. Warriors, Warlords, Rangers, etc, train a feat and you too can cast them.
Two Feats, actually, as they first need to be proficient in either Arcana or Religion, neither of which those classes have as a Class Skill.
Heh, moment I saw your name on the last post, I knew exactly what this post would be about. :D And yes, I too would like to know who Hoar serves, as well as who many of the other Lesser Gods/Demigods serve. Although at present I'm compiling a list based on what we know so far, as to how things MIGHT look, organizationally speaking.
Well, duh. Who else would I be happy about seeing still "alive"? At least half the deities on that list I am happy to see still around.
And personally, I wanna see Hoar working for Bahamut and Torm. Law and Justice, two things Hoar worked for... Well, Poetic Justice and the Spirit of the Law, not the letter of it. :P
If you are human or eladrin you can get arcana or religion for free using their racial bonuses. In terms of balance, opening a locked door should not cost a mage 35g and 10 minutes when a skill check can do it. Let's also remember that one of the goals of 4.0 is to remove the need for players to play specific classes in order to succeed. If you always have to have a rogue or lock, that is a penalty to any group that does not want to play either.
*hides plans for a 4.0 Pal-Starlock of Hoar* What? I've got nothing... Really...
If you are human or eladrin you can get arcana or religion for free using their racial bonuses.
In the case of an Eladrin, yes. But not so with a human, as they have to choose a skill from their class skill list. So unless you're an Eladrin, it's still two Feats. And even with Eladrin, it's still one Feat. Although I fail to see the problem with Eladrin having an easier time of it.
In terms of balance, opening a locked door should not cost a mage 35g and 10 minutes when a skill check can do it.
Not quite, as you can learn pretty much an infinite amount of Rituals. Trained Skills are more finite, however.
Let's also remember that one of the goals of 4.0 is to remove the need for players to play specific classes in order to succeed. If you always have to have a rogue or lock, that is a penalty to any group that does not want to play either.
Hence why anyone can get Skill Training in Thievery. Either way, if a Ritual is quick and easy enough to use, then it pretty much negates the need for the open lock skill, doesn't it?
Is it just "poof, they are there" or are there a bit more information about their appearance?
And any info on the prominent dragons of the Sword Coast (and elsewhere).
Is it just "poof, they are there" or are there a bit more information about their appearance?
That's pretty much the case with Tymanther, although Dragonborn already existed in Faerun. The same is true of all the other races. There already were Tieflings in Faerun. Eladrin are Moon Elves/Sun Elves/Star Elves. Genasi and Drow (in the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide) also existed there for a while. The only real change was Dragonborn, with a bunch of them coming in from Abeir and ending up on what was left of Unther.
That's pretty much the case with Tymanther, although Dragonborn already existed in Faerun. The same is true of all the other races. There already were Tieflings in Faerun. Eladrin are Moon Elves/Sun Elves/Star Elves. Genasi and Drow (in the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide) also existed there for a while. The only real change was Dragonborn, with a bunch of them coming in from Abeir and ending up on what was left of Unther.
I know what the previews said, but they are not always correct. Also I was asking if there are more information about the new races in the book than "theye are there now, deal with it". How are they integrated into the realms? How did the Tieflings rise to prominence? What did the dragonborn do after they appeared? How is their relation with other nations? How are the Elven/Eladrin split described (although I guess that will be retconed so that there always where 2 races).
-Yeah this forum has had over 100 guests for a couple of hours.
18DELTA ;)
I know right? Helps gives a reason for a new split. Kinda similar to the reason for the last split. ;)
Red Wizards - i saw something on them...will post that tonight..i'm at work this morning but forgot the book at home
if anyone else wants to respond, they can....Cult of the Dragon - they are mentioned...with some stats for a dracolich type..will detail when i get home tonight. think it was 2 pages.
Monsters - I can list the monsters tonight. the ones I remember off hand:
Tomb trapper (those netheril stone golem funky things)
Sharn (those black anti phaerimm creatures)
Shade (same art from 3.X FR book)
more when i get home (or anyone else who has the book can add to the list)
there is a small paragraph on the swordmage and it has the info block (the part of the classes in PHB that says their starting HP, skill pts, etc)
Oh, regarding Evermeet again, i read the full paragraph...in addition to the dragons in Isla Sumbrar disappearing, it also mentions all those eternal soldiers there (along with the dragons) and the spelljammer Armadas that were hidden there, they all burned in the magical fires of the spellplague..so basically, the most powerful army on the FR (other than Larlochs 60+ liches or whatever it is) is gone..but since they are in the Feywild now, I guess that makes no difference.
Sanjay
What, when, why, how and what now?
Thanks.
Hoar! *pumps fist*
Who's he serve? *prays it's not Shar*
I can't say for sure, as there is no write up on him. However, his home plane is Banehold, which would Imply he serves Bane now.
-RW
I totally forgot about that merging of two worlds part. Any information on that?
What, when, why, how and what now?
Thanks.
They only speak briefly of the splitting in the creation section. Returned Abeir has a section for itself near the rear, with a nice little map showing the horseshoe shaped Island.
-RW
I can't say for sure, as there is no write up on him. However, his home plane is Banehold, which would Imply he serves Bane now.
-RW
Damn, so no change of address, huh? That sucks. So any chance you can list the other godly dominions and who lives in them?
After the spellplague, the chaos left many open for attack, so those who didn't go into hiding were quickly killed. Few think of Thay when they say red Wizards. Instead they think of a blackened dead nation, filled with roaming undead. Tam destroyed much of the land preforming a ritual to achieve power beyond that of the gods.
He was ofcourse stopped as is usual, however at the expense of the remaining Zulkirs lives.
He now wants to push out of Thay to try the ritual again, since he destroyed the land beyond use.
-RW
Damn, so no change of address, huh? That sucks. So any chance you can list the other godly dominions and who lives in them?
I can try, however I'll answer other questions first.
I have to run out in abit, so adding to the deity list might have to wait. Honestly I'm surprised noone has stopped the list yet.
-RW
Wow, I'm really glad I read this thread. This saves me and everyone I play D&D with from ever buying this execrable piece of trash they are trying to market as a Forgotten realms guidebook.
Did they purposefully try to think up as many ways they could destroy everything about the Realms that people actually liked (the rich history and continuity?), and turn it into some generic amorphous blob of a modern "fantasy" setting? (dragon people and demon people as standard damn races? My God what's next, will they be having having cat-girls and werewolves as standard races now, too??)
The FRCS was absolutely the finest RPG setting book I have ever seen, and what do they offer us in it's place now? They gut it, defecate on it's corpse, set fire to it, urinate on it's memory, and replace it with a damn pamphlet that they try to shill to us at full price.
But, then again, I guess the exact same thing could be said of 4E in general.
Sadly, I fear I'll very seldom be playing D&D again. My DM is one of those "absolutely by the book" types, and now that 4E has come out that is what he feels that he MUST run... but even [i]he[i/] has already told me that he won't be touching the steaming pile of offal that is the 4E Realms with a 10 foot pole. But he's also said we won't ever return to running 3E because it's "too cumbersome."
My only hope of ever playing D&D again now is the fact that he said he WILL be running a 1E AD&D game before too long, but for no he's running a 4E game that I'm stuck with suffering through (or else being stuck with NO role-playing games AT ALL.) The first 1E game he is going torun is going to be a Greyhawk game (which suits me just FINE) but I'm hoping that I can convince him to run a 1R Realms game too.
I'll be doing ANYTHING and EVERYTHING I can to persuade him from running 4E anymore, and he continues to insist on it I'm afraid that I will be quitting playing at all rather than continue to play a game that I neither enjoy nor appreciate. I find 4E to be a grotesque mockery of D&D, and the 4E Realms especially.
You said it bro. WotC should be renamed to AotS
I actually like the Eldreth Veluuthra.
Besides, the Eldreth Veluuthra represents what every Elf is deep down. ;) It's a secret desire type of thing. I can imagine the Eldreth maybe allowing the returning Dark Elves (who transformed from Drow) to join their ranks. Ideas of Elven purity and superiority are long standing traits held by Drow, and it is hard to imagine that they would not find a group like EV interesting, especially since Lolthite society is not going to welcome them back.
So yeah, I reiterate: Let the Eldreth Veluuthra control Myth Drannor and harbor goals of retaking Evermeet!
That will never happen because elves aren't like what you describe.
1st of Red Wizard, thank you so much for taking the time to answer some of our questions...
No problem. It's a bit hectic keeping up with all the questions, but I don't mind having a reason to post again. :P
1) What's the current state of the Cult of the Dragon, where are they located, how many pages are devoted to them?
They are alive and well, and have two pages to their name (The same as all the other organizations). There is one monster that comes with the writeup, and mentions that it's Headquarters is located in Murghom. They have a second base of opperations in a location called the "Well of the Dragons".
2) Any monster stats in the FRCG, if so, which ones?
A number of monsters make an appearence, and several templates for things such as the Shades.
3) Any NPC's stated beyond level and role?
Several are yes. Any NPC with stats, has the full block. Szass Tam is statted, as is Manshoon, Fzoul, and Jarlaxle off the top of my head.
-RW
It's comments and attitude like this on continuity that push authors to nuke a world & setting rather than try to update it.
-Don't know if you're being sarcastic, or...?
-Anyway, two questions:
(1) Since Mask is gone, is there any deity that has the 'Thievery' portfolio/sphere/whatever?
(2) Does the book explain what 'Abeir' is? A Plane? A Planet? A Moon?
(2) Does the book explain what 'Abeir' is? A Plane? A Planet? A Moon?[/b]
Apparently, the world was split at some point, and the primordials got Abeir and the gods got Toril. The spellplague broke down the barriers between the two.
:evillaugh
(1) Since Mask is gone, is there any deity that has the 'Thievery' portfolio/sphere/whatever?
Yes. Brandobaris has Thievery.
(2) Does the book explain what 'Abeir' is? A Plane? A Planet? A Moon?
Yes. Abeir and Toril were one planet in the beginning. An epic ritual nearly caused the destruction of the planet, during the war between the Primodials, and the Gods, so Ao stepped in and created a duplicate of the planet. He gave the double to the primordials, and Toril was left to the gods.
-RW
(1) Since Mask is gone, is there any deity that has the 'Thievery' portfolio/sphere/whatever?
IIRC, Brandobaris, exarch of Chauntea.
Yes. Brandobaris has Thievery.
Yes. Abeir and Toril were one planet in the beginning. An epic ritual nearly caused the destruction of the planet, during the war between the Primodials, and the Gods, so Ao stepped in and created a duplicate of the planet. He gave the double to the primordials, and Toril was left to the gods.
-RW
Actually, Mask may not be fully gone, or gone at all. Read the other thread, Paul has given us Mask fans some hope.
Yes. Abeir and Toril were one planet in the beginning. An epic ritual nearly caused the destruction of the planet, during the war between the Primodials, and the Gods, so Ao stepped in and created a duplicate of the planet. He gave the double to the primordials, and Toril was left to the gods.
-RW
Is that explanation seriously in the new FRCG as official lore, or is this just speculation?
And I did that, mind you, WITHOUT reading the last two excerpts posted. :D
The level of predictability on the designers parts is turning into a real yawn-fest as far as I'm concerned.
The only surprise, so far for me, was them elevating Sseth over Set, and then tacking Zehir in as well. That one took me completely off-gaurd (because of the ENORMOUS lack of logic behind it).
And I bet Abeir looks just like the way the world SHOULD HAVE looked, had the Elves not meddled in things and Sundered the planet. :D
So I got my 'alternate timeline Toril' anyway, although not quite the way I expected.
Human=bonus feat=skill training=arcana
Human can do that at level 1.
Can you provide the table of contents?
I'd like to 2nd this request.
Thanks for answering questions.
By the way, where is Mask?
Dead when mystra was killed
Cyric tricked Mask into something involving Mystra's death I think
Tom
Also, according to Paul, and Richard, nall the gods not listed aren't around anymore or dead. They're fates have yet to be unveiled, and Paul stated that the FRCG doesn't spoil what happened to Mask. So his fate has yet to be revealed.
That pisses me off for two reasons. 1.) Why the hell not give me all the information right off the bat. I understand killing someone later, but deliberately not including something is rediculous.
2.) Justifying it, by saying they don't want to give spoilers is a lie. They include spoilers in at least one spot in regards to Tam.
*Shakes head*
Therise: Yes it is in the FRCG. It is an only slightly sumerized version of the small blurb given. As for where Abeir was, the implication seems to be it existed merely as an alternate reality exactly on top of Toril's.
This is further purpitrated with the suggestion that Abeir and Toril to small degrees often drifted in and out of one another, supplanting parts of one with the other temporarily. This was ofcourse unknown to everyone, and had little real effect. It is speculated that one of these mergings was happening during the spellplague, hense the gross changes that occured.
-RW
That pisses me off for two reasons. 1.) Why the hell not give me all the information right off the bat. I understand killing someone later, but deliberately not including something is rediculous.
-I asked Rich Baker why this was done. Let's see what he says.
-I asked Rich Baker why this was done. Let's see what he says.
Thanks.
If this is correct, it's a disgusting turn of events to put it mildly.
It's ludicrous already to want to charge as much as an MMO for their silly DDI, and worsened by forcing anyone interested in lore to pay such outlandish prices, but to then omit lore from a base material, is all but rubbing our noses in this mess, and daring us to do something about it.
-RW
-I asked Rich Baker why this was done. Let's see what he says.
I guess because
1. Sell more books in which they explain what happened to well liked characters.
2. See how the customers react to this and adjust it accordingly.
3. Keep something in reserve for storylines.
4. Let the DMs have some freedom.
-She's in The Dales, maybe she is whupping up on Shar's Goons/lackeys now!
18DELTA
Great, the one Chosen that I prayed to dear god they would kill off is still alive, and Alustriel is dead
Any word on what happened to the other Chosen though? I am also interested in the current state of the Sword Coast, though I am pretty sure it is little changed due to the need for video game plots.
I guess because
1. Sell more books in which they explain what happened to well liked characters.
2. See how the customers react to this and adjust it accordingly.
3. Keep something in reserve for storylines.
4. Let the DMs have some freedom.
Um.
1: They have said they won't be covering the time-jump era so what books will they cover these storylines in?
2: Since most of the major players have been named in the FRCG and/or have been announced as having beed killed/subsumed/spread on toast and munched would they really be taking a "Fan Poll" for what, one major deity, when they haven't for all of the rest?
3: How is this different from 1? Or do you mean publishing campaigns from now that decide deific presence?
4: *blinks* Ok, this last one is the one I really can't get my head around. In a book that, effectively, only the DM is supposed to read, you intentionally don't mention deities that the DM can either put in or edit out as he/she/it pleases anyway and yet publish the rest of the list... to give the DM more freedom?
Clarification please!
Therise: Yes it is in the FRCG. It is an only slightly sumerized version of the small blurb given. As for where Abeir was, the implication seems to be it existed merely as an alternate reality exactly on top of Toril's.
Wow, no kidding. Duplicated planet in an alternate reality. That seems remarkably.... just... wow.
Wow, no kidding. Duplicated planet in an alternate reality. That seems remarkably.... just... wow.
Sliders!
Wow, no kidding. Duplicated planet in an alternate reality. That seems remarkably.... just... wow.
Yeah, like we've never heard that before.
18DELTA
-I can think of only one other instance of 'Alternate Realities' being used in the Forgotten Realms, and that was in (ironically?) Bruce Cordell's novel Darkvision.
Bruce Cordell must not be allowed to touch the Realms for the rest of existance.
18DELTA :D
-I asked Rich Baker why this was done. Let's see what he says.
-The novel will explain why Mask isn't around in 1479 DR.
I wonder what happens to Cale? :embarrass 18DELTA
-I can think of only one other instance of 'Alternate Realities' being used in the Forgotten Realms, and that was in (ironically?) Bruce Cordell's novel Darkvision.
Figures. His books are bizarre and don't fit the Realms feel at all.
I think Darkvision is one of the best FR novels to date. Especially because it doesn't "fit the Realms feel". It is a breath of fresh air.
And a little Moorcookian planar alignment can't do any harm, can it?
Re Zehir: I thought that video games aren't considered canon? It's quite stupid to mess up the setting just because Obsidian blunders.
Well, as I just said in response to the 10-question post, you can assume that deities who don't appear on the list are no more. The exact circumstances of each one's departure are something that we didn't detail, because it's not necessarily relevant to the "snapshot" of the world you see in the new FRCG. However, I imagine that future DDi articles might explore some of these topics at greater depth, just like the Cormyr article goes into a lot more detail about the Forest Kingdom than the 2-page spread in the FRCG.
We have a "secret timeline" in house where many of those events are set in order, and the exact fates of missing deities are specifically noted. So we do know what happened to most of those deities. They're not included in the new FRCG because it's not terribly useful to fill a book with things that aren't actually present in the current day. Some of those are fine, of course--you want people to know about the origin of old ruins, or ancient catastrophes that might have left adventure-ful legacies in the modern era. But is it really that important to most FR campaigns that there used to be a goddess of streams and ponds called Eldath?
(And yes, I'm not saying anything about Mask because that's Paul Kemp's story to tell.)
-Rich just posted this.
18DELTA
-Rich just posted this.
So this would suggest that Mask is indeed gone... they just aren't setting a timeline on when we are going to know how or why?
So this would suggest that Mask is indeed gone... they just aren't setting a timeline on when we are going to know how or why?
-We will know when the book comes out. Thats why they pushed it back to december of this year. It was orignially going to be released in June.
18DELTA
Really? Where? Pandorym is supposed to come from the Far Realms.
-The part in which
Show
it is revealed that Ususi's sister is not actually her sister, but is instead an alternate version of Ususi from an alternate future, who's purpose was to make sure that Ususi did not fail in her task
This infers to me strongly that Mask will probably be killed off at the end of the current Erevis Cale/et al trilogy, or in some future book(s) following that.
I didn't get a Realms feeling from reading the excerpt, I'll have to look at a store copy sometime in the near future. So far, though, this breaks the urge to keep my version of the Realms in line with theirs.
Too bad they don't sell a 'Classic Realms' line. Won't ever happen. But it would be cool to have a FR RPG database where you can granulate what gods you really want represented, etc., without some of the paperwork DM's normally do. Just click on the stuff that matters and ~bam~ your version of the Realms in digital format, all nice and clean.
*wanders back towards studying IT security junk, not trying to sound bright or kewl 'coz I ain'ts*
-We will know when the book comes out. Thats why they pushed it back to december of this year. It was orignially going to be released in June.
18DELTA
-Yup, though Mr. Kemp suggested himself that it was not because of spoilers, per se, but so that there wouldn't be a million different Forgotten Realms releases and revisions released all around the same time (this summer).
18DELTA :embarrass
-Did an earlier post say that there would be no Chosen in the Realms now only Exarch's and Cale and Rivelin are not on that list.
-I don't know, but Exarchs and Chosen are inherently different things. I've seen a few people confusing the two, however.
-I don't know, but Exarchs and Chosen are inherently different things. I've seen a few people confusing the two, however.
-Found the Post in question
To add one thing to the answers, the chosen of varied gods are covered in a blurb in the deity section. They say essentially that while a deity is capable of having chosen, their powers very from god to god, and there are currently none known in the Realms.
-RW
-UNDERLINE ADDED
18DELTA
Just one question - is there anything at all that would be of use to a DM who is translating 3.5e timeline Realms to 4e game rules?
Though right now, from what I've read, I'm seriously considering sticking to 3.5e DnD.
-Found the Post in question
-UNDERLINE ADDED
18DELTA
-Well, that's stupid, but people still are confusing Exarchs and Chosen.
Heya,
Just one question - is there anything at all that would be of use to a DM who is translating 3.5e timeline Realms to 4e game rules?
Though right now, from what I've read, I'm seriously considering sticking to 3.5e DnD.
Well it depends on what you need to make the transition. It talks briefly about changes that have occured, but alot of it are simple things we already know.
-RW
When will the disappointments end?
I really was hoping something amazing would would make it all worth it, but I guess not.
'Abeir' was their big surprise?
Just shoot me now....
as for the monsters in the book:
Fzoul Chembryl
banelar Naga
Dark Moon Monk
Kir-Lanan Wing
Blazing Rorn the Fury
Felljaw
Haraevor
Mordrin
Tentacled Torment
Fettered Dracolich
Draegloth (i hate the redesign off them)
Draegloth favoured one
Jarlaxle Baenre
Direhelm
Doomsept
Captain Shil Yargo
Jordaini Enforcer
Gibberling Bunch
Plague Gibberling Bunch
Arathluth Malaugrym
Luthvaerynn Malaugrym
Shade
Naramus
Thaalud
Veserab
Knight, Loremaster, & Commander Accordant
Sharn
Plaguechanged Ghoul
Terpenzi
Sath'fiss'ith the Skybinder
Wereserpent
several scathebeasts
Dread Warrior
Szass Tam
Warlock Knights
Shardsouls
Zairtail Swarms
Zhents
Manshoon
The cult of dragon, someone asked, is here: a couple pages..mentions Sammaster is dead but don't remember when that happened...
Sanjay
-Did an earlier post say that there would be no Chosen in the Realms now only Exarch's and Cale and Rivelin are not on that list. Cale and Rivelin were/are the Chosen Of Mask so.....
18DELTA :embarrass
Just to clear up something. It's Cale and Riven who are chosens of Mask. Two of the five that we know three of, or maybe four, I'm not sure if we know if Kesson is toward that five. The fifths yet to be revealed. Which is rather strange, as if Mask is to die, then, the fifth becomes a chosen for... what one book and then Mask dies? Seems like a short change perhaps, but who knows.
Rivelin, is one of the Princes of Shade, and Shars High Priest in Shade Enclave.
Oh, And 1373 is so last year. ;)
-RW
Sanjay
Oh, And 1373 is so last year. ;)
-Two years ago, actually.
Rinonalyrna,
I also like many aspects of 4.0. Sadly, the magic system is the one part I do not like as it takes away the flavor of a wizard. Do not get me wrong, rituals are very nice; but taking away 99.9% of spells and making spellbooks obsolete detracts from my enjoyment of the new system. Which is why I injected 3.5 magic back into my game. My group calls our system 3.75
You need not explain yourself to me. In any case, I'm sure more and more spells will be added as time goes by.
Sadly at the moment I don't have a Realms. Thanks to having a doctoral thesis to write and having only just tracked down a local gaming group recently I don't have a game to play.. just novels. And I don't get to choose what goes in those.. sadly.
If nothing else, there's always a version of the Realms inside your own head.
I shall remain chipper if not hopeful. Ed is still writing after all... and who knows, maybe one day I will be able to play any version of D&D again (not since 1997 and even then it was just a few sessions). ;)
I certainly hope so. And yes, Ed is still writing and he is even going to give us some pre-Spellplague lore on Candlekeep.com if that's what people ask him for.
That will never happen because elves aren't like what you describe.
It is quite comical how you take him seriously. Very insightful as well. :D
I am quite certain he was joking.
Very interested in the book for these readons:
Fzoul Chembryl
banelar Naga
Dark Moon Monk
Kir-Lanan Wing
Blazing Rorn the Fury
Felljaw
Haraevor
Mordrin
Tentacled Torment
Fettered Dracolich
Draegloth (i hate the redesign off them)
Draegloth favoured one
Jarlaxle Baenre
Direhelm
Doomsept
Captain Shil Yargo
Jordaini Enforcer
Gibberling Bunch
Plague Gibberling Bunch
Arathluth Malaugrym
Luthvaerynn Malaugrym
Shade
Naramus
Thaalud
Veserab
Knight, Loremaster, & Commander Accordant
Sharn
Plaguechanged Ghoul
Terpenzi
Sath'fiss'ith the Skybinder
Wereserpent
several scathebeasts
Dread Warrior
Szass Tam
Warlock Knights
Shardsouls
Zairtail Swarms
Zhents
Manshoon
Not all of them are useful to me but most of them are.
Yes. Brandobaris has Thievery.
Yes. Abeir and Toril were one planet in the beginning. An epic ritual nearly caused the destruction of the planet, during the war between the Primodials, and the Gods, so Ao stepped in and created a duplicate of the planet. He gave the double to the primordials, and Toril was left to the gods.
-RW
Bleh, that's dumb.
Can't help myself, sorry.:P
I appreciate it that you and Sanjay (and anyone else who is helping) is giving us this info.
Re Zehir: I thought that video games aren't considered canon? It's quite stupid to mess up the setting just because Obsidian blunders.
Let's be fair--we really don't know the full story behind that.
-Did an earlier post say that there would be no Chosen in the Realms now only Exarch's and Cale and Rivelin are not on that list. Cale and Rivelin were/are the Chosen Of Mask so.....
18DELTA :embarrass
Doesn't mean they'd be dead, it'd just mean they aren't Chosen anymore.
What is there about Calimport/Calimsham?
I was wondering the same thing!
Just to clear up something. It's Cale and Riven who are chosens of Mask. Two of the five that we know three of, or maybe four, I'm not sure if we know if Kesson is toward that five. The fifths yet to be revealed. Which is rather strange, as if Mask is to die, then, the fifth becomes a chosen for... what one book and then Mask dies? Seems like a short change perhaps, but who knows.
Rivelin, is one of the Princes of Shade, and Shars High Priest in Shade Enclave.
-Oh yeah him! I allways get those two's names mixed up! My bad my mistake!
18DELTA :P
Tentacled Torment
-That one sounds REALLY interesting if you ask me! Where's Stigger when I need him. Where ever you are Stigger this is for YOU!!!!:P
:coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul 18DELTA :88E:
-Well, that's stupid, but people still are confusing Exarchs and Chosen.
Yeah, I am still a bit confused myself. Are Exarchs the same thing as Demigods or are they more equivalent to Quasi-Deities (DvR 0 in the 3e format)? I have always thought Exarchs and Demigods were about equal and Quasi-Deities and Chosen were about equal.
Heya,
Just one question - is there anything at all that would be of use to a DM who is translating 3.5e timeline Realms to 4e game rules?
Though right now, from what I've read, I'm seriously considering sticking to 3.5e DnD.
The Forgotten Realms Player's Guide is probably what you'd want for that. It has 4E stats for the Drow and Genasi, as well as Realms specific Paragon Paths (Harper may be one of them). Beyond that, you really don't need much. Just use the 3E background as-is with the 4E rules. That's what I plan on doing for the most part next time I run a game.
Yeah, I am still a bit confused myself. Are Exarchs the same thing as Demigods or are they more equivalent to Quasi-Deities (DvR 0 in the 3e format)? I have always thought Exarchs and Demigods were about equal and Quasi-Deities and Chosen were about equal.
Yep, Exarchs are equivalent to Demigods and maybe 3E Lesser Gods. By way of example, the list of Exarchs includes Garagos, Hoar, Jergal, Malar, and Red Knight. All of them are either Demigods or Lesser Gods in 3E terms.
What is the final Verdict on them, are they Good? Evil? Banana Flavored? If they are NOT evil, then why are the Silver Marches against them?
Hey, is there any New info about the Kingdom of Many/Dark Arrows?
What is the final Verdict on them, are they Good? Evil? Banana Flavored? If they are NOT evil, then why are the Silver Marches against them?
Because the orcs wish to expand their domain? That is one thing that is annoying about many fantasy RPG worlds. If someone tries to take over land from another they are deemed evil in most cases. Pretty silly.
Re Zehir: I thought that video games aren't considered canon? It's quite stupid to mess up the setting just because Obsidian blunders.
Let's be fair--we really don't know the full story behind that.
Going out on a limb: When Obsidian was making the game they received details about the new Realms from WotC. At the time Zehir was in as a deity as they were planning to port in some core deities, but as the design cycle progressed they changed their mind and took Zehir out. However, by this time Obsidian had already done the voice recordings and everything and was unwilling to "correct" it (as it was WotC's fault) and so they decided to throw him in anyway.
That's just a wild shot in the dark, but the most plausible explanation. They had no reason to include him unless specifically told something by WotC.
Because the orcs wish to expand their domain? That is one thing that is annoying about many fantasy RPG worlds. If someone tries to take over land from another they are deemed evil in most cases. Pretty silly.
I have to be in full agreement there. By that logic every current real world civilization is somehow evil, as I can't think of a single group who has not killed or subjugated others to get to where they are today.
Thank you for the updates!
I like the idea of the worlds being split....sort of gives support to the idea that Faerûn would be host to portals and gates to other worlds, because it was never entirely whole itself.
As though it's being unbound with the other 'half' left it open.
I like that part (at least).
I can't say for sure, as there is no write up on him. However, his home plane is Banehold, which would Imply he serves Bane now.
-RW
Well, that's a step up from Shar in my mind... If he's "Unaligned", then I might be able to swing a Good-aligned Paladin/Starlock of him... Hmm... Must get the 4.0 books and read very carefully...
Oh, and any mention of the city Neverwinter? Just wondering if it will ever become something more the a video game only city; I mean, sure, it was in a few of the 2E FR handbooks... But that's really it. We know Baldur's Gate is doing well, as is Icewind Dale I am sure, so why not Neverwinter?
Oh, and any mention of the city Neverwinter? Just wondering if it will ever become something more the a video game only city; I mean, sure, it was in a few of the 2E FR handbooks... But that's really it. We know Baldur's Gate is doing well, as is Icewind Dale I am sure, so why not Neverwinter?
I read somewhere on the forum that Neverwinter and Luskan are both piles of rubble now. Can't remember exactly where. Maybe in the StarFyre's thread.
Sanjay
I mean, seriously, were they going to show up and be like: "Hey guys we just built this really awesome road through the desert to help trade. We want to set up shop in your town, so we can eventually control you economically. Oh, and I baked a cake just for you - well... I didn't really bake it, I stole it, but just between us lets pretend I baked it."
I'm sure Waterdeep, Neverwinter and Silverymoon would have fallen all over themselves to establish trade with them.
Moving eastward -always- seemed like the most logical thing to do. They could have easily moved to dominate the dragon coast and the bloodstone lands had they focused their energy in that direction. Then they could have worked to control all eastward trade after they pushed their way into Thesk.
Of course, I am not sure what the Zhents look like now that the Cyricists beat the Banites. I really dislike that development, but even more I dislike that they simply didn't kill off Fzoul. I cannot imagine Bane elevating him to an Exarch after what happened, more likely he would have received an eternity of torment.
Of course, I am not sure what the Zhents look like now that the Cyricists beat the Banites. I really dislike that development, but even more I dislike that they simply didn't kill off Fzoul. I cannot imagine Bane elevating him to an Exarch after what happened, more likely he would have received an eternity of torment.
Cyric seems to be the golden boy of the setting. His being imprisoned barely seems like a punishment - after all, his Church seems to be thriving (well everything I've read seems to hold that up, I could be wrong).
As for Fzoul, perhaps he is being tormented by Bane. His status as an Exarch could be more of a curse than a blessing. (I can see him as a "broken puppet" held up as an example of what happens to those who fail Bane...) (Once again, I'm pulling things out of thin air - take it with a grain of salt.)
Oh well. Two solutions to this problem. 1) Play a Paladin of Bane and slaughter every single Cyricist I come across until they're all dead, then look for some way of killing Cyric himself. 2) Run a campaign set during the Time of Troubles, and have Cyric fall down a well and break his neck. Then have his corpse fed to starving pigs who've had their teeth filed into razor edges. Then bag their excrement and shoot it into the sun.
Man, I hate Cyric and Cyricists.
I really dislike that development, but even more I dislike that they simply didn't kill off Fzoul. I cannot imagine Bane elevating him to an Exarch after what happened, more likely he would have received an eternity of torment.
The interesting part is that it seems that Bane did elevate Fzoul after his death. But wasn't Fzoul immortal as part of his chosen package?
So who killed him? The Cyricists as part of overthrowing the banites within the zhentarim? If that's the case it seems unlikely that Bane would reward such a failure with making him a demigod.
Maybe someone else killed Fzoul and the cyricists sized the moment to take over the zhentarim before a new strong banite leader could arise
As a big Cyric fan I am now more pleased than ever before with 4e realms. Now I only have to wait for December for Mask's fate to be revealed and hope that he is indeed dead and that it was Cyric who slew him
So lets talk about the nations instead.
What about Luiren? Any changes there? (and in Dambrath, while we're at it)
How they remain organized is simple. They have a common goal, urged on by Cyric. They wish to use the organization to free Cyric from his prison.
Also, the church is not that prominent any more. They have two major areas of influence, one of which being Amn, the other in Muranndin. After this, only the Zhents still hold any notable number of Cyricists, so I'd hardly call them prominent anymore, or say Cyric is their Golden boy. He is hardly mentioned throughout the book.
Lastly, unrelated, for those interested in Mask, his Realm still exists, and his former Chosen inhabit it from time to time.
-RW
Yeah, I am still a bit confused myself. Are Exarchs the same thing as Demigods or are they more equivalent to Quasi-Deities (DvR 0 in the 3e format)? I have always thought Exarchs and Demigods were about equal and Quasi-Deities and Chosen were about equal.
They are referred to as both Exarchs and Demigods. The implication seems to be that they are of the Epic destiny "Demigod" found in the PHB. Fzoul is afterall only level 28 by his stats. They don't have the DvR system anymore, so the comparrison really doesn't work.
On a side note to this, Tiamat serves Bane, and Loviatar is his consort.
-RW
P.S. Velsharoon is confirmed destroyed in the fire. not sure if this was mentioned.
What about Luiren? Any changes there? (and in Dambrath, while we're at it)
Dambrath still exists, however Luiren was destroyed during the spellplague, creating what is now the "Gulf of Luiren".
-RW
Dambrath still exists, however Luiren was destroyed during the spellplague, creating what is now the "Gulf of Luiren".
Well, f[iddlestick].
I'd rather it have been the other way around. Oh well...
Dambrath still exists, however Luiren was destroyed during the spellplague, creating what is now the "Gulf of Luiren".
-RW
Well I am not really happy about it. I remember Ed saying that they better have a good reason to kill so many of his characters...and honestly I have seen some improvements, but most of these could have been done without Killing gods like crazy (demoting them to demigods seems like a better idea) so .....
The Baneites lost power when the Shades found out that the Zhents via Fzoul had made an alliance with the Phaerim to control the Dalelands and destroy Mythdrannor. They then attacked and destroyed Zhentil Keep, leaving the organization in Ruins. The surviving Baneites bowed out of the mess, leaving the Cyricists to take control from Darkhold.
How they remain organized is simple. They have a common goal, urged on by Cyric. They wish to use the organization to free Cyric from his prison.
Also, the church is not that prominent any more. They have two major areas of influence, one of which being Amn, the other in Muranndin. After this, only the Zhents still hold any notable number of Cyricists, so I'd hardly call them prominent anymore, or say Cyric is their Golden boy. He is hardly mentioned throughout the book.
Lastly, unrelated, for those interested in Mask, his Realm still exists, and his former Chosen inhabit it from time to time.
-RW
That's a bit confusing, I thought only Greater Deities could keep their realms from being deoyed. How could his realm exist if he's dead? How could his chosen still be chosen if hes dead? Perhaps Mask isn't as dead as we had though.
The Baneites lost power when the Shades found out that the Zhents via Fzoul had made an alliance with the Phaerim to control the Dalelands and destroy Mythdrannor. They then attacked and destroyed Zhentil Keep, leaving the organization in Ruins. The surviving Baneites bowed out of the mess, leaving the Cyricists to take control from Darkhold.
Damn. So has Zhentil Keep been permanently destroyed, or has it been rebuilt?
Also, the church is not that prominent any more. They have two major areas of influence, one of which being Amn, the other in Muranndin. After this, only the Zhents still hold any notable number of Cyricists, so I'd hardly call them prominent anymore, or say Cyric is their Golden boy. He is hardly mentioned throughout the book.
How about the Church of Bane? What's going on, there?
On a side note to this, Tiamat serves Bane, and Lviatar is his consort.
Heh, I guessed a while back that Tiamat would end up serving Bane. Now to see if Bahamut serves Torm. As for Bane and Loviatar... huh.
Tempus: War
The Red Knight: Tactics
That sounds like a fun match up.
Dambrath still exists, however Luiren was destroyed during the spellplague, creating what is now the "Gulf of Luiren".
Are the Crinti still in power?
That sounds like a fun match up.
Actually, I think Tempus' squeeze is Beshaba, not Red Knight.
Unless I am reading too much into things.
I'm not sure if it matters who or what killed Fzoul. The fact that the church of Bane seems to largely be in disarray would point strongly to the fact that he failed somewhere. This being the case, I find it highly unlikely that Bane would allow him to be elevated to anything. In all likelihood I could easily imagine Bane, in a boiling rage, descending from the heavens and slaying Fzoul himself, so he could take his soul back with him to torture it for all eternity.
Bane isn't dead though. He is a Exarch/ Demigod, with his sphere being "Service to Evil"
-RW
I think it would be very useful for everyone and since WotC doesn't seem to show the map... maybe they are afraid of it !
Thanks!
Actually, I think Tempus' squeeze is Beshaba, not Red Knight.
Unless I am reading too much into things.
Unless things have changed drastically (or rather, more drastically), Tempus and the Red Knight have a father/daughter relationship.
As for Bane and Loviatar... huh.
Remains the question: Who is whipping who here?
Or do we don't want to know? :D
That's a bit confusing, I thought only Greater Deities could keep their realms from being deoyed. How could his realm exist if he's dead? How could his chosen still be chosen if hes dead? Perhaps Mask isn't as dead as we had though.
It doesn't say he is dead, only missing. And they are FORMER chosen, not current chosen.
Also, they mention the Shadow Fane, for those who read the novels, and how it makes a stop in his Realm. It goes as far as to mention the many treasures to be found within, taken from distant planes by Mask. So it's entirely possible he skips realities to avoid whatever mess he brought about for himself.
-RW
Whoa...whoa...who's the woman? Never would I let a female lead me into war or in the use of tatics. Who is it? Red knight or Tempus?
Red Knight's a woman.
Remains the question: Who is whipping who here?
Or do we don't want to know? :D
Yeah, I was just thinking, this is a guy who wants to dominate everything in sight. So when he gets together with Loviatar, what's going on there, exactly?
You know what? Nevermind. I don't want to know.
Unless things have changed drastically (or rather, more drastically), Tempus and the Red Knight have a father/daughter relationship.
I recall something like that, though I don't know Red Knight that well.
I had the feeling that Tempus' relation with Beshaba was less platonic.
Red Knight's a woman.
Why
Whoa...whoa...who's the woman? Never would I let a female lead me into war or in the use of tatics. Who is it? Red knight or Tempus?
Perhaps you should read up on Joan of Arc, Boudica, Louzan, Grace O'Mally or Hua Mulan, before you go shooting down the females ability to command soldiers, and inspire courage on the battlefield.
-RW
Why
Because she was a Mortal ascended as such.
-RW
Why
Because she's always been a woman?
Could anyone of you scan and post the new FR MAP ???
I think it would be very useful for everyone and since WotC doesn't seem to show the map... maybe they are afraid of it !
Thanks!
I think posting the Map would be pushing what I'm doing here beyond the realm of reasonable.
Sorry.
-RW
It doesn't say he is dead, only missing. And they are FORMER chosen, not current chosen.
Also, they mention the Shadow Fane, for those who read the novels, and how it makes a stop in his Realm. It goes as far as to mention the many treasures to be found within, taken from distant planes by Mask. So it's entirely possible he skips realities to avoid whatever mess he brought about for himself.
-RW
-That I would like. Typical Mask. Stir up trouble and run far away! :D
18DELTA ;)
Yeah, I was just thinking, this is a guy who wants to dominate everything in sight. So when he gets together with Loviatar, what's going on there, exactly?
Loviatar is possibly the only deity who enjoys to both give and receive pain, so I don't think it is THAT hard to imagine what is going on between them...
I do wonder however if Lovy is really as obedient as Bane wishes her to be outside their private dungeon.
She doesn't really sound like a girl who likes to permanently be bossed around.
Damn. So has Zhentil Keep been permanently destroyed, or has it been rebuilt?
No, it is still a ruin. However it is apparently a Den for pirates and thieves.
How about the Church of Bane? What's going on, there?
They are still running strong, with Bane quickly consolidating his power after the SP, and the loss of both Zhentil Keep and the citadel of the Raven. Fzoul still serves Loyally as an Exarch, and I will add a slight correction to a prior statement, he did die, however was raised up as an Exarch despite his percieved failure.
He is however, once more active in the Realms.
Heh, I guessed a while back that Tiamat would end up serving Bane. Now to see if Bahamut serves Torm. As for Bane and Loviatar... huh.
He took her as a consort to further consolidate their faiths, and strengthen his seat of power. He is worshipped by evil dwarves, and has assimilated the goblin deities to add to his strength.
-RW
I'm not sure if it matters who or what killed Fzoul. The fact that the church of Bane seems to largely be in disarray would point strongly to the fact that he failed somewhere. This being the case, I find it highly unlikely that Bane would allow him to be elevated to anything. In all likelihood I could easily imagine Bane, in a boiling rage, descending from the heavens and slaying Fzoul himself, so he could take his soul back with him to torture it for all eternity.
Or maybe he doesn't have that many powerful, loyal servants left and isn't the type to be the "eeeeeeevil" villain who kills underlings as an example to other underlings. There's no way in hell the Zhents at any stage of their existence could have stood against the Shades of Netheril, so there wasn't really much Fzoul could do to prevent the sacking of the Zhentil Keep.
Loviatar is possibly the only deity who enjoys to both give and receive pain, so I don't think it is THAT hard to imagine what is going on between them...
I do wonder however if Lovy is really as obedient as Bane wishes her to be outside their private dungeon.
She doesn't really sound like a girl who likes to permanently be bossed around.
Ah, good point. And to think, here I was picturing Bane being tied up in a dungeon in Banehold with a jawbreaker in his mouth while Loviatar walks around him in stilleto heels with a whip in hand. :D
Any chance you can post a bit more info on Torm, what his domain is called, his portfolios, center of worship, and the gods who serve him? Thanks!
He opperates out of Cellestia, and his Sphere is Law. He is Lawful good, and is the replacement for Tyr, after Tyr apparently perished fighting off an incursion of Demons, presumedly at the hands of the Cyricist.
The mst prominant realm I find with his influence, is the Paladin realm of Elturgard.
-RW
She doesn't really sound like a girl who likes to permanently be bossed around.
-Well the Spellplague can change a girl!
-Is it me or do the Shades sound like they mean Business! They didn't Play around with Zhentil Keep, no wonder why we get a Headless Zhent!
18DELTA :D :P
On a side note to this, Tiamat serves Bane, and Loviatar is his consort.
P.S. Velsharoon is confirmed destroyed in the fire. not sure if this was mentioned.
Hmm Loviatar as his consort....interesting. Maybe a lust triangle between Loviatar, Bane and Tiamat. ;)
They would make a nasty group to anger as they are all very vengeful.
Hi - thanks for the deluge of information! I would like to know about my favourite villain - Manshoon. What is his level and his stats - does he still have his vampiric Orbakh powers? What is the context in which he rules the Zhentarim? While you're on that, what is the Zhentarim like now?
See page 1. (Additional infos about the Zhents have been posted further inside this thread).
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=16558234&postcount=10
No, it would not be logical but that's how things are often portrayed for them. That being said, Fzoul died and yet -still- received a promotion in power. Bleh. I hate it when characters die and come back; it just cheapens the whole thing.
It was very clear, from the moment the Shades returned, that they would be a powerful threat. The Zhents were surrounded by enemies. Then the elves began to return to Myth Drannor. It didn't send off any warning flags? Oh, and let's not forget that the whole thing with the Cyrists just proves that Fzoul STILL failed to deal with the situation.
There is a diffrence between punishing failure and rewarding incompetence.
It was very clear, from the moment the Shades returned, that they would be a powerful threat. The Zhents were surrounded by enemies. Then the elves began to return to Myth Drannor. It didn't send off any warning flags? Oh, and let's not forget that the whole thing with the Cyrists just proves that Fzoul STILL failed to deal with the situation.
Powerful yes, but they don't have to be the be-all end-all that they became from the moment they have appeared. If I had the power to do it I would erase everything written about them from canon. I can't stand their concept.
See page 1. (Additional infos about the Zhents have been posted further inside this thread).
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=16558234&postcount=10
They are one of my favorite groups.
-Has anyone thought about compiling all of this information into an organized thread? I mean, I'll do it if no one else wants to, but I have about seventeen other things I do...Just putting it out there.
I already did that on ENworld (for the time when the WotC board goes down again)
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=238664
I hope I got everything right and you are free to copy this list to a new thread on this board if you want.
Yes it does survive, and Menzoberranzan makes it into the new edition. The spellplague had an effect on this area too, leaving behind what are now called "Plaguecaves".
To the south, where the great rift was, a casm even greater than that has been torn open, exposing the depths below. This is referred to as the "Underchasm", and the Sea of Fallen Stars, Shining Sea, and Great Sea all feed into this pit, so many of the walls are roaring cascades of water.
Earthmotes hover over this chasm, some of which are riddled with tunnels, and thus creatures of the underdark.
-RW
Earthmotes hover over this chasm, some of which are riddled with tunnels, and thus creatures of the underdark.
That's hilarious... flying chunks of earth with underdark tunnels.
What is the status on the Witches of Rashemen?
They are one of my favorite groups.
They are still around, and the country is virtually identicle. The only changes of note, are with the return of the Feyworld, the number of fey in the realm has increased.
Additionally, during Thays civil war, the Hathrans took the oppertunity to eliminate their enemies the Durthans, so that sect is no more.
Personally, this is unfortunate, as they were brought in only long enough to be erradicated. A waste of source material to be sure.
-RW
Additionally, during Thays civil war, the Hathrans took the oppertunity to eliminate their enemies the Durthans, so that sect is no more.
Personally, this is unfortunate, as they were brought in only long enough to be erradicated. A waste of source material to be sure.
Wow. This I just don't get. Waste of source material is right.
Additionally, during Thays civil war, the Hathrans took the oppertunity to eliminate their enemies the Durthans, so that sect is no more.
-Very handy. Oh well...
-----
menzoberranzan is mentioned as the most powerful underdark city.
the map is too large to scan/draw a quick scketch off but a large part of the country collapsed into the underdark making the ..forgot name, like sparkling sea or something..a underground sea (the water source was from the sea of fallen stars) and there are ..ruins, etc on the map in that collapsed section. haven't gotten to the section on what they are yet....the aboleth still exist in/around sea of fallen stars/underdark.
---
Powerful yes, but they don't have to be the be-all end-all that they became from the moment they have appeared. If I had the power to do it I would erase everything written about them from canon. I can't stand their concept.
Yes, I agree I would erase them as well but that doesn't change the fact that they exist. The problem for the Zhents was this: They were very focused upon building that damned road right through the desert (to what end? It was not like they were going to find any allies at the end of it). Then boom, the Shades appear, right in the middle of it.
Now, even the dumbest Zhent grunt is going to see this as a problem even if he cannot imagine the full implications of this event.
This really only left the Zhents with five choices:
1. Continue doing what they were doing before the Shades arrived, hoping that they could escape their notice.
2. Attempt to enter into diplomatic negotiations with the Shades and forge a strong alliance with them, providing them with two things they needed: trade and information. Being cut off from Toril for several centuries tends to leave you not up-to-date with world events and not able to access the best goods.
3. Abandon the road to no where... I mean the road to the west, across the desert, and remain content with becoming only a minor power within the Moonsea region.
4. Realizing that with the path west was blocked; the only hope for future expansion lies to the east.
5. After the Elves began to return to reclaim Myth Drannor, realize that suddenly the entire region was filled with enemies who were all working against you. Step back, take a look at the larger picture, and realize that your current position was no win. Think about securing what you can in the Moonsea, shoring up your holdings, and a strong shift toward relocating the central hub of the organization elsewhere in more lucrative lands.
There were many opportunities for the Zhents, they just never realized them. For one Amn and Baldur's Gate were at odds almost at the brink of war not to long ago. Claiming the remnants of the Iron Throne for their own, they could have quickly built up a base of operations in the region. As both Amn and BG were fighting it out over in Maztica the conflict was sure to spill over at home with a bit of prodding. The Flaming Fist was divided and spread out, making BG ripe for take over by someone who could deal with the various factions and bring order after the resulting chaos.
This would have given them a direct foothold in Maztica which would have been ripe ground for outright conquest and exploitation by the Zhents.
Alternatively, they could have turned their attention toward the Bloodstone Lands, Chessenta or Turmish. There were many opportunities and all of them squandered or lost.
The best route they could have went was to approach the Shades with an alliance, cease their push westward, shore up what they had in the Moonsea region, and decide if they were going to push eastward or try and relocate the central hub of the organization elsewhere. Sending agents eastward would be necessary regardless, because they would want to leave the option open no matter what they decided. As well the same is true for playing Amn and Baldur's Gate against one another. Gaining a foothold in Maztica would have been a life changer for them, because it would have allowed conquest, expansion, exploitation and recruitment on an unprecedented scale. They could have done these things freely in Maztica without having to worry about their traditional enemies.
But I digress…
No, it would not be logical but that's how things are often portrayed for them.
Good to know that "random internet guy" gets to decide what is logical for someone else's creation.
That being said, Fzoul died and yet -still- received a promotion in power.
So did Heracles.
I hate it when characters die and come back; it just cheapens the whole thing.
D&D has been pretty cheap since the 1970s.
It was very clear, from the moment the Shades returned, that they would be a powerful threat. The Zhents were surrounded by enemies. Then the elves began to return to Myth Drannor. It didn't send off any warning flags?
Warning flags which then inspired him to strike a deal with the phaerimm, since the enemy of my enemy is my friend. However, that deal came with it's own set of consequences: the Shades don't take kindly to people allying with their recently-released mortal enemy.
Oh, and let's not forget that the whole thing with the Cyrists just proves that Fzoul STILL failed to deal with the situation.
So, he's surrounded on all sides, facing threats that his organization couldn't handle on it's own at any point in its history, and dealing with an invasion of Shadowdale, but he should be able to perfectly deal with a schism within the Zhents at the same time? He's not the clone-crazy Manshoon.. only one Fzoul to go around, and with him unable to truly trust anyone (since the organization is rife with Bane and Cyric supporters), it makes his job way tougher.
There is a diffrence between punishing failure and rewarding incompetence.
And there is a difference between being defeated by impossible odds and being incompetent. And since Fzoul was one of the only people to remain loyal to Bane through the Cyric affair, even after his death, I don't see it odd that Bane might actually have some kind of regard or loyalty towards his most loyal servant.
-RW, does the new book contain any information about the Afterlife?
Yes, it seems to suggest that Kelemvor judges all of the dead now, save the select few who are taken in by their gods, fade out of existence somehow, or refuse to move on and become ghosts or some other incorporeal being.
-RW
Additionally, during Thays civil war, the Hathrans took the oppertunity to eliminate their enemies the Durthans, so that sect is no more.
Wow, 100 years and that's all they accomplish. :P
But seriously, that also kind of sucks because I liked the concept of the Durthans.
Yes, it seems to suggest that Kelemvor judges all of the dead now, save the select few who are taken in by their gods, fade out of existence somehow, or refuse to move on and become ghosts or some other incorporeal being.
-That's how it always was. I was asking, to see if the concept of the Wall and all of that was still around.
-That's how it always was.
I thought that previously Kelemvor only got human souls while other races where handled by their racial gods?
Good to know that "random internet guy" gets to decide what is logical for someone else's creation.
I'm not sure what this means? You said this:
Or maybe he doesn't have that many powerful, loyal servants left and isn't the type to be the "eeeeeeevil" villain who kills underlings as an example to other underlings.
I -AGREED- with you, but then I pointed out that it is how Bane and the Zhents have been portrayed. Look to the Zhents and you'll see them constantly killing underlings who failed horribly, no matter the reason, and as such, why would it be difficult to assume that Bane would do the same to Fzoul?
Regardless, there is no reason at all to believe that Bane would have rewarded Fzoul. In the end it only happened because someone, somewhere, wanted to keep the guy around. If they were going to wipe the slate clean, they could have at least given the Church of Bane a new figurehead.
Warning flags which then inspired him to strike a deal with the phaerimm, since the enemy of my enemy is my friend. However, that deal came with it's own set of consequences: the Shades don't take kindly to people allying with their recently-released mortal enemy.
Which was utterly stupid on their part. Why would they ally with the phaerimm when they could have attempted to ally with the Shades? The Shades were cut off from Toril and the Zhents could have provided them with many of the things that they needed - namely a ground operation and instant trading partners.
However, instead they had to go out of their way and make another enemy. As you pointed out they were already facing incredible odds. Why make it worse by angering those who they can't hope to defeat? (The Zhents already had enough enemies that met that description.)
And since Fzoul was one of the only people to remain loyal to Bane through the Cyric affair, even after his death, I don't see it odd that Bane might actually have some kind of regard or loyalty towards his most loyal servant.
Because Bane is not about loyalty but instead about tyranny and fear? Bane, being a tyrant, expects nothing less than absolute obedience. Why would he reward someone, even a favored servant, for doing what essentially amounts to the bare minimum?
I thought that previously Kelemvor only got human souls while other races where handled by their racial gods?
-No. One of the "chief" complaints others has was that non-Humans went to the Fugue as well.
-Of course, this makes sense when you take into account that:
A) All dead beings wind up going to the same place, a "gathering place", where their deities can then take them off to.
B) Kelemvor is a Human, and happens to be the Judge of the Dead right now. This doesn't mean that the Judge of the Dead is always Human. In the past, when other races were more prevalent, it is likely that one of their own was the Judge of the Dead. Jergal, for instance, was, at a time, the Judge of the Dead. He certainly is not a Human. But, the process was the same as it is now.
Others: I'm sure we'd all change things had we the power, but that doesn't mean it'd be better for anyone but ourselves. Some here think that what they percieve as problems, are irrefutably the be-all and end-all of the issues with the setting, and that fixing them would somehow make the rest of us happy.
I personally happen to LIKE Shar. I LIKE Cyric. I LIKE the Shadovar. And I LIKE what they've all done pre 4E. What I don't like are the unbelievable losses the "bad guys" always suffer at the hands of people who most first level PC's wouldn't take seriously.
I also don't like the vocal outcry on the boards, when something someone else doesn't like manages to make a step or two in a direction someone else might not mind. So many people speak out about Cyric, but never mention Mystras discretions when talking about poor excuses for gods.
I detest how the Thayans always get the shaft in novels portraying them, but I am not so naive, or arrogant to think that that must mean it is a problem for everyone. Or that changing it would fix everything wrong with the edition swap. Many I'm sure were happy to see Thay pistol whipped by a Bard in a Dingy. They might even defend it as possible, or a rare feat of inspired literature. I don't agree, but I'm not going to take that Realms from those who enjoy it.
At the end of the day, it is your game. If you want to stick to canon, that is your buisness and your problem. I tend to follow it, whether I like it or not, and manage to keep the ******* and moaning to a minimum. I think though that people often forget that they can make their Realms just that. THEIRS.
WoTC doesn't have the time, money, patience or interest to sit down with us all individually, hold our hands, and tell us our stuff is canon. The only thing rediculous about any of this, is thinking the setting should be built on a case by case basis, to suit the play styles of people wanting to feel like everything they do should be justified by a source.
Sorry, [/rant] :P
-RW
-That's how it always was. I was asking, to see if the concept of the Wall and all of that was still around.
No, Kelemvor only judged the Faithless and the False. The gods always came for their faithful, or sent someone to collect them. There was no fading away, and to the best of my knowledge, if you were going to become a ghost, you did it before leaving the prime.
Now it seems to imply that the gods will get you if they feel like it, otherwise you're Kelemvors problem. Much akin to a Greek or Roman pantheon, where regardless of your worship, you went to the underworld. And like Hades, you are judged based on life.
-RW
p.s. No mention of the Wall that I saw.
No, Kelemvor only judged the Faithless and the False.
-All of the dead went to the Fugue Plane. From there, a deity came by and "picked you up".
-So, ignoring the False and the Faithless, what is Kemevor doing, that makes this new system? Is he babysitting them, until their deity comes to take them (as the system worked before), is he judging that they are fit/unfit to go to their deity, is he judging them, and then personally sending them to their deity...?
-All of the dead went to the Fugue Plane. From there, a deity came by and "picked you up".
-So, ignoring the False and the Faithless, what is Kemevor doing, that makes this new system? Is he babysitting them, until their deity comes to take them (as the system worked before), is he judging that they are fit/unfit to go to their deity, is he judging them, and then personally sending them to their deity...?
As I understand RW the deities don't pick up their faithful anymore, only their favorite servants. The others, while faithful, also stay with Kelemvor who has to deal with them in addition to the false and faithless.
-All of the dead went to the Fugue Plane. From there, a deity came by and "picked you up".
Indeed. And as before they all go to the Fugue to wait. However, they no longer wait for their Deity if they were faithful. Instead they wait to be judged by Kelemvor and then taken in for whatever fate -not mentioned- awaits them. It mentions only that those of strong faith MAY be taken to their gods.
-So, ignoring the False and the Faithless, what is Kemevor doing, that makes this new system? Is he babysitting them, until their deity comes to take them (as the system worked before), is he judging that they are fit/unfit to go to their deity, is he judging them, and then personally sending them to their deity...?
He is as I said judging everyone. At least that is the impression I took from the blurb. The implication seems to be he is the final judge of the soul, for all souls, unless one of three things transpire. They are taken in IF the god wants them, they vanish to where not even the gods know, or they become ghosts, and return to linger, or drift about the fugue forever.
Alternatively, they may choose to serve Kelemvor, in whatever facet he sees fit. The judging seems to be that regardless of faith, you will be treated as though you are a false or faithless, and come under his scruitany. He send you to his realm after.
-RW
-Humm...So, basically, only, say, Clerics (They are special enough) actually get picked up by their deities, while lay worshipers don't?
Yes, but even then it say's MIGHT. Which to me means the gods will take you on a whim, instead of for dedication.
-RW
-Humm...So, basically, only, say, Clerics (They are special enough) actually get picked up by their deities, while lay worshipers don't?
I guess not even every cleric gets picked up. The gods are probably only interested in heroes/those guys with a destiny and not in common persons.
As I understand RW the deities don't pick up their faithful anymore, only their favorite servants. The others, while faithful, also stay with Kelemvor who has to deal with them in addition to the false and faithless.
If that's true then the levels of lameness have descended again.
The souls of those who die travel through the Shadowfell to the Fugue Plane. There they await judgement. Some pass out of creation before any ruling comes, others after. Where these souls go not even the gods know. One that is of strong faith and capabilities might be taken to the dominion of it's deity, to serve him or her beyond life. others remain on the Fugue Plane as aides to the god of death, continuing on as ghosts or other insubstantial undead.
Everyone can interpret as they will now.
-RW
-Geeze. I wasn't a fan of the Forgotten Realms' afterlife one bit before, and I didn't think there was really any way to make it worse. And yet, here you go.
Still better than Eberron.
Look to the Zhents and you'll see them constantly killing underlings who failed horribly, no matter the reason, and as such, why would it be difficult to assume that Bane would do the same to Fzoul?
That was also common under the 2e "comic book code" days when evil had to be depicted as incompetent. That's why the 2e Realms had such a "good guys always win because evil is dumb" feeling, and that changed in 3e when they turned groups into credible threats.
Regardless, there is no reason at all to believe that Bane would have rewarded Fzoul.
There's no reason to believe he wouldn't reward him. The god dies, and his followers abandon him... except for a few, including Fzoul Chembryl.
Which was utterly stupid on their part.
In hindsight, yeah, it was a bad idea, since it got them sacked.
Why would they ally with the phaerimm when they could have attempted to ally with the Shades?
Because the Shades aren't interested in alliances, they're interested in conquest. Since they've come back, they've been focused on making war in order to restore the Empire of Netheril. Empire-builders tend not to make good allies, especially when your territory is in the middle of areas they want to conquer.
However, instead they had to go out of their way and make another enemy. As you pointed out they were already facing incredible odds. Why make it worse by angering those who they can't hope to defeat? (The Zhents already had enough enemies that met that description.)
Because they didn't have much of a choice. The Shades show up, and immediately begin waging war on their neighbors in order to expand their lands. The Zhents didn't go out of their way to make an enemy, they responded to the sudden presence of a powerful and hostile force by seeking an ally against that force. It didn't turn out so well, but hey, we can't always predict the future.
Because Bane is not about loyalty but instead about tyranny and fear? Bane, being a tyrant, expects nothing less than absolute obedience. Why would he reward someone, even a favored servant, for doing what essentially amounts to the bare minimum?
Bare minimum? If you read about Fzoul's activities from the death of Bane up through 3e, he's been pretty active in trying to get his lord restored. I'd say the only person that did more and sacrificed more for Bane was Xvim, merely by stint of him dying to restore the deity.
And tyrants do want loyalty, and they don't care whether it's out of respect, love, or fear. Most prefer fear.
I guess not even every cleric gets picked up. The gods are probably only interested in heroes/those guys with a destiny and not in common persons.
Yeah, it sounds like they only come and claim people who are Exarch material, and the rest are given an appropriate reward/punishment by Kelemvor.
18DELTA
I'm currently running a campaign set in 4e Thesk, it'd be helpful to know if they nuked it.
That was also common under the 2e "comic book code" days when evil had to be depicted as incompetent. That's why the 2e Realms had such a "good guys always win because evil is dumb" feeling, and that changed in 3e when they turned groups into credible threats.
I couldn't agree more. The rule "evil must always lose and never be shown to profit from their evil deeds" was retarded beyond measure. I actually credit it for much of what was wrong with the Realms. In large part, I also think that is why WotC decided to bring in the Shades. By the end of 2E the Zhents were a complete laughing stock and most other evil organizations not much better.
Because the Shades aren't interested in alliances, they're interested in conquest. Since they've come back, they've been focused on making war in order to restore the Empire of Netheril. Empire-builders tend not to make good allies, especially when your territory is in the middle of areas they want to conquer.
Sure, that is obvious. However, let's review their situation: They are surrounded on all sides by enemies, faced with threats that the organization couldn't handle on its own at any point in its history, dealing with an invasion of Shadowdale, and suffering from a schism within the Zhents at the same time. Not to mention they were still trying to build back up Zhentil Keep from the first (or was it second or third?) time it got sacked.
When it becomes clear that you're going to be obliterated from the face of the planet, sometimes you've got to make sacrifices. Placating the Shades, giving them information of the various groups in the region, potential threats, as well as supplying them with trade is making yourself useful. You're much less likely to be conquered right away if you're useful, especially if you play up the fact that you're weak. It gives you time to retool the organization, deal with the schism and begin to abandon operations in the region. It was all about buying time, which is why it doesn't make sense why they went out of the way to make another enemy.
Because they didn't have much of a choice. The Shades show up, and immediately begin waging war on their neighbors in order to expand their lands. The Zhents didn't go out of their way to make an enemy, they responded to the sudden presence of a powerful and hostile force by seeking an ally against that force. It didn't turn out so well, but hey, we can't always predict the future.
Nothing stopped them from waving the white flag and trying to placate them. Just look at Sembia. At worst the Zhents could have had a similar deal. Hey, it's better than being dead, right? It also gives you a chance to plot and scheme your way back into power.
Instead, they willingly chose to fight yet another war on another front instead of, at minimum, abandoning their plans for the Anauroch Desert.
And tyrants do want loyalty, and they don't care whether it's out of respect, love, or fear. Most prefer fear.
Yes, and fear is what Bane wants (as he is a deity of fear). I don't really get the impression that he wants to be respected (venerated and worshiped, yes, but respected -almost- implies that you're an equal to him), but feared most definitely.
They are still around, and the country is virtually identicle. The only changes of note, are with the return of the Feyworld, the number of fey in the realm has increased.
Additionally, during Thays civil war, the Hathrans took the oppertunity to eliminate their enemies the Durthans, so that sect is no more.
Personally, this is unfortunate, as they were brought in only long enough to be erradicated. A waste of source material to be sure.
-RW
Thanks for the info!
Good to know they are still around - too bad about the Durthans who would have made cool 4e Warlocks.
-RW
Thanks for the info!
Good to know they are still around - too bad about the Durthans who would have made cool 4e Warlocks.
From what Rich has said in the past, it appears that the Hathrans may be Feypact Warlocks in 4E.
I found the simbul - page 88 - she is alive and resides in the dalelands..still mentions she is a powerful mage
Sanjay
Well, well, well... if they have also kept Alusair, Caladnei and Maresa alive somehow, I can say that would find things a lot less horrifying than before.
Still terribly terrible, but somewhat more bearable.
From what Rich has said in the past, it appears that the Hathrans may be Feypact Warlocks in 4E.
Hmmm, trying to think of how I feel about that one. Its one of those could-go-either-way things for me.
Red Wizard and StarFyre, you are allowed to post some more informations ;)
From what Rich has said in the past, it appears that the Hathrans may be Feypact Warlocks in 4E.
Ahh didn't know that
I didn't think there were that many Fey there....spirits yes but not Fey.
-RW
I would like to see the Drow return to the surface and build an empire like they had before the Descent. :evillaugh
I believe it was said that Alussair is dead, and Caladnei retired as Vangerdahast did before her. But I could be remembering wrong.
-RW
Does this information come from the book or from a other source? (I need that to categorize them correctly)
No one said the Church of Bane had to surrender, just the Zhents. :P
In fact, it would have given Fzoul the perfect opportunity to try and convert some of the Shades to Bane. Let's face it, he makes more sense for the Shades than Shar.
But anyway, it makes more sense for them to act that way than to fight to the death. Kind of defeats the point and instead has them focusing on short-term rather than long-term thinking. You might be groveling today (what choice did they really have), but tomorrow you could be ruling the Empire that your former masters once sought to make their own.
Sembia never made a deal with the Phaerim, Fzoul did. That was most likely a slight the Shadovar didn't wish to forgive. And letting Baneites live wouldn't make sense for them. A Tyrant only wants to be one thing. He can't rule from beneath a heel.
But I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree in regards to the logic behind it. I don't see a problem, you don't agree, and I'm sure we could keep going. :P
-RW
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-Ok lets get this bad boy back on topic. What did the 4E FRCG say about Evereska? :D Did it get shifted into the Feywild during the Spellplague or is it Plaguelands now. ;)
18DELTA
Evereska survives, and is rebuilt by this time. However they have had to take a more active role in the world, as one of the three powers opposing the Shadovar/ Netheril.
Their Mythal is fully restored, and apparently barely flickered when the spellplague came and went.
-RW
Evereska survives, and is rebuilt by this time. However they have had to take a more active role in the world, as one of the three powers opposing the Shadovar/ Netheril.
Their Mythal is fully restored, and apparently barely flickered when the spellplague came and went.
-RW
-Outstanding! So maybe they can help the Reborn Harpers in their unending struggle against the Empire of Shade! :D
18DELTA
18DELTA
-RW
-Shade flanked to the southeast by MythDrannor. Shade flanked to the south by Cormyr. Shade flanked to the southwest by Everska. Yet Myth Drannor and Cormyr flanked on two sides. Looks like a great stalemate going on. I can run with this! :D
18DELTA
I have already banned it and the MM from the players. We finally get a clean slate. :D
-RW
How was Kara-Tur affected by the Spellplague?
Does this information come from the book or from a other source? (I need that to categorize them correctly)
Omit it for now. I know I saw it somewhere, but I'll find it before i confirm it.
-RW
Glad the elves are back in power! :D
How was Kara-Tur affected by the Spellplague?
Back in power? They removed Evermeet from the Material Plane and destroyed a good portion of their army.
Can you post about the Gensi Kingdom, and the lands of Intrigue (amn and the like)
Amn was covered in the exert, in the same detail as the book itself.
As for the Genasi kingdom, they were part of a large nation, repressed by a cruel primordial on Abeir. Their portion transitioned with the plague, removing Chessenta. They have thrived since, forming their own kingdom.
Bridges run from cliff to tower to earthmote here, connection the city high off the ground.
-RW
18DELTA
Omit it for now. I know I saw it somewhere, but I'll find it before i confirm it.
-RW
-You may want to check out Dragon Magazine's Backdrop's: Cormyr it was written by BRJ. It's the DDI Article that was released last month. I have a link to it in my Sig. (The 4E FR Handy links Thread).
18DELTA :D
There is alot of inspiring information in this to be honest. I am pleasantly surprised, and glad I gave it a chance.
I have already banned it and the MM from the players. We finally get a clean slate. :D
-RW
-Man I can see the Dales being a secret battleground in this cold war that could go hot at any moment. Can the PC's stop the war before it starts, or do they let it happen and the try and pick up the pieces?
18DELTA :D
Basically though it is a Dragonborn nation, of proud yet friendly warriors. They are happy to show off their city, and eager to make allies and explore other cultures. They are made strong by centuries of combatting dragons, and their structures are strong and alien representing this.
The Cult of the Dragon has a semi secret pressance here, and takes disheartened members into their folds.
-RW
-You may want to check out Dragon Magazine's Backdrop's: Cormyr it was written by BRJ. It's the DDI Article that was released last month. I have a link to it in my Sig. (The 4E FR Handy links Thread).
18DELTA :D
Yeah, that's what I was reading through again slowly. I figured it was where I'd seen it. Or atleast the most likely place.
-RW
Amn was covered in the exert, in the same detail as the book itself.
-RW
If this excerpt contains information on Calimshan, could someone please post a link?
If this excerpt contains information on Calimshan, could someone please post a link?
-Amn was covered. Here is the Article that has Amn in it Calimshan wasn't. Speaking of which whats up with Calimshan in 4E did a certain Primordial get released and start ruling the place.
18DELTA
But a bit of new stuff i found:
It appears, they did not retcon out the Blood War.
It states, When the abyss got tossed into the elemental chaos, THAT event caused the end to the blood war (since the tanar'ri and baatezu no longer had the easy access to fight i guess). Which implies, the former notes from WotC that they are just forgetting about stuff that they didn't want; isn't totally true.
As well, hulruaa is a magical wasteland essentially..wasted totally as all the magic there blew up during the spellplague.
Something I'm trying to figure out but will use this for my games, it says part of abeir came back to toril..but doesn't actually say all of it..that implies in another reality/plane, etc...abeir is still there; whatever remains of it...
could be interesting gameplay wise.
Order of Blue Fire - believed to be group of friendly spellscarred people who wnat to learn and help others affected by spellplague. It states the ones in the book stated, are designed to work with Sharns in the plaguelands (adventure sites made for upper heroic/paragon tier chars). The leaders are sharns and something called masters of absolute accord. says masters are trapped near underdark city of Imasker... it appears the they were a cult who thought spellplague was a holy event... their true goals are to release spellplague/spellplague effects throughout the world/multiverse..whatever...
4 pages of info on them...
A lot of mention of serpent kingdoms, etc...haven't read it all but i love snakes and reptile related stuff (my warhammer army = lizardmen) so i will read over it tomorrow or so and provide info...
Sanjay
Back in power? They removed Evermeet from the Material Plane and destroyed a good portion of their army.
Everska is standing fine having suffered very little from the Spellplague. Cormanthyr/Myth Drannor is back in control of the elves.
They didn't lose Evermeet....I think it was so they could introduce the eladrin changes by taking it into the Fey.
Really the only things the elves lost were Sumbar.
18DELTA ;)
-So whats up with the Moonshae's. Is it playing up the Feywild Threat from the Formorians?
18DELTA ;)
Bring us some LeShay!
18DELTA
-Another question for when the Oracles return! :D Whats the skinny on the City of Hope. Also any info on Blackstaff's Kids?
18DELTA
-Presumably, it still exist. Wouldn't make too much sense to introduce it at the tail end of 3e, and then have it "erased". Although...
-Good question, though.
) What about Xxiphu, the seat of the Aboleth Soverignty. 18DELTA
Because the Shades aren't interested in alliances, they're interested in conquest.
That is not entirley true. In Shadowbred, it is told that the Shades tried to make alliances with Cormyr and Evereska, but where rebuked. They then started the conquest of Sembia.
Though it doesn't say how hard they tried...
-Man I can see the Dales being a secret battleground in this cold war that could go hot at any moment.
Hmmm.
Evereska survives, and is rebuilt by this time.... etc
Thankyou Red_Wizard for introducing me to a genuinely new experience... a change brought about by the 4th Ed transition that I am happy about without any reservation whatsoever.
They didn't lose Evermeet....I think it was so they could introduce the eladrin changes by taking it into the Fey.
Really the only things the elves lost were Sumbar.
Just a quick question, where is Amlaruil at this point?
Sanjay
And I'm sure many people would want to know: what happened to the original lands of Toril that were replaced by sections of Abeir? That is, Maztica, Chessenta, Unther and others. Did they get switched and now appear on Abeir? Or were they destroyed somehow? Or do they now overlap?
With the categorising of deities as Greater God, God, Demigod etc. are the "old 3rd" dwarven, elven, gnome, halfling and orc gods listed as being favoured by that race. I.e. is Shevarsh listed as an elven demigod and Clangeddin a dwarven demigod?
Regarding Alusair and Caladnei - the Backdrop: Cormyr article doesn't mention their fates at all. Ed Greenwood seems to think that Alusair's fate has been left relatively obscure, but won't say anything more due to NDAs (which also cover Caladnei's fate).
So unless the Campaign Guide says otherwise, there is no word on their ultimate fates as yet.
Amlaruil is dead...evermeet has no leader right now, along with no dragon/spelljammer army, since sumbrar got rocked...
Sanjay
I... see.
Thankyou for the information Sanjay. I do hate to keep bothering you with this stuff as it seems the questions are never ending. Do let us know when you are getting tired!
Does this information come from the book or from a other source? (I need that to categorize them correctly)
Well, since Alusair is only human it seems logical that she's no longer around 150 years in the future. Even a 60 year time jump should have killed her off
Well, since Alusair is only human it seems logical that she's no longer around 150 years in the future. Even a 60 year time jump should have killed her off
I got her mixed up with Alustirel. Why are (were) there so many people in the FR starting with "A" and generally sounding similar?
So what about her? Someone at ENworld asked about the Silver Marches.
I got her mixed up with Alustirel. Why are (were) there so many people in the FR starting with "A" and generally sounding similar?
So what about her? Someone at ENworld asked about the Silver Marches.
Alusair was the Orbarskyr girl, right (someone clarify maybe)? Strangely I also thought of Alustriel when I read your post.
Amlaruil is dead...evermeet has no leader right now, along with no dragon/spelljammer army, since sumbrar got rocked...
Sanjay
Imagine what I'm about to say.
Is there anything in the book about Torm's current character, allies/enemies or goals? How has his increased power and greater commitment to Law (I hope he still has claims on Duty too) changed him? And how is Selune?
I'm curious about the Simbul - what does the new FRCG actually say about her? People have hinted that it says she's "still around in the dalelands", but does it give any more information than that, like exactly where or what she's doing? Or why she left Aglarond?
Nothing at all. It has a small blurb on her, telling of how many thought her dead, but in truth she still lives. There is nothing to give any clue to her state of mind, body of power.
-RW
Nothing at all. It has a small blurb on her, telling of how many thought her dead, but in truth she still lives. There is nothing to give any clue to her state of mind, body of power.
-RW
Interesting, thanks.
1) What happened to Mezro, why is it in ruins?
2) What happened to Ubtao? He was / is a GREATER DIETY and doesn't seem to be mentioned at all in 4th ed??
3) What happened to the Peaks of flame / Dendar the Night Serpent ? I hear he is an aspect of Set now, but with Ubtao gone, what is keeping him in check?
4) Does all this have something to do with Neverwinter Nights 2: Storm of Zehir, I have heard that parts of it will be taking place in Chult.
Any insight any of you may have would be VERY helpful!
4) Does all this have something to do with Neverwinter Nights 2: Storm of Zehir, I have heard that parts of it will be taking place in Chult.
I don't think that expansion will be in any way canon. It think it even plays before the time jump where Zehir technically didn't even exist yet.
As a native of Aglarond (according to LFR), I DEMAND that the Dalelands return our queen to us IMMEDIATELY!
As also a native of Aglarond (according to LFR), I heartily reject that demand! Only a "normal" person of Velprin's old bloodline may sit upon the throne! :P
P.S. Want to kill some elves and their half-breed spawn with me later, after I burn some 'witches'? :P
-----
I really hope the Sons of Hoar are still around.
Someone needs to update us on the status of Aglarond!As also a native of Aglarond (according to LFR), I heartily reject that demand! Only a "normal" person of Velprin's old bloodline may sit upon the throne! :P
P.S. Want to kill some elves and their half-breed spawn with me later, after I burn some 'witches'? :P
-----
I really hope the Sons of Hoar are still around.
*A Sun Elf Archmages destroys Meldread for his insolence* :P
*A Sun Elf Archmages destroys Meldread for his insolence* :P
Beeep, wrong. Those are Eladrin now, are they not?
Beeep, wrong. Those are Eladrin now, are they not?
But they are still called Sun/Moon/Star Elves.
Bel
As also a native of Aglarond (according to LFR), I heartily reject that demand! Only a "normal" person of Velprin's old bloodline may sit upon the throne! :P
Fie on you, you traitorous filth! Long live the queen!
P.S. Want to kill some elves and their half-breed spawn with me later, after I burn some 'witches'? :P
You're on.
Trying a third time.. Any change in Thesk? Any mention of how the Shadowmasters are now?
Yes please, any mention of?
Beeep, wrong. Those are Eladrin now, are they not?
Eladrin, are you talking about the Celestials of Arborea? No youngling, I'm a proud Sun Elf, born in Evermeet, many miles to the east of the Sword Coast, with Mystra at my side and Aerdrie Faenya at my head.
As a native of Aglarond (according to LFR), I DEMAND that the Dalelands return our queen to us IMMEDIATELY!
And as Burgher of Harrowdale, let me respond with saying that your demand fall on deaf ears, commoner.
I wouldn't even throw him at my players - thats just a level of horror that only belongs in Ravenloft...
Or maybe Call of Cthulhu...
There's clearly something Abeirational going on there.
The 'Burger King' has to be one of the scarriest monsters created by the media in the past century.
yup. Right behind Dr. Phil
Are the Crinti still in power?
I second that question. I read somewhere else that the Crinti are gone. Is that true? And if, who rules Dambrath now?
Lirdolin
I second that question. I read somewhere else that the Crinti are gone. Is that true? And if, who rules Dambrath now?
Lirdolin
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showpost.php?p=4425118&postcount=68
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showpost.php?p=4425118&postcount=68
Indeed, I'll shed a few tears for the Crinti... so my timelost character has lost her relatives and homeland as well...Eladrin, are you talking about the Celestials of Arborea? No youngling, I'm a proud Sun Elf, born in Evermeet, many miles to the east of the Sword Coast, with Mystra at my side and Aerdrie Faenya at my head.
Y'know when I first read this I thought it said 'Aerdrie Faenya in my head.' and thought "That explains alot!"
Oh well.
Bel
-I thought it said 'in my head', too. As in, the character is always thinking of her.
Well, since Alusair is only human it seems logical that she's no longer around 150 years in the future. Even a 60 year time jump should have killed her off
It's logical, yes.
She would almost certainly live on in legends at the very least. ;)
(A lot of characters in the Realms were older than they seemed, by the way, and this was due to the use of magics to extend their lives. There's no reason why Alusair might not have had access to such magics, or perhaps have drawn the attention of a friendly god, like Torm.)
-I miss Queen Amlauril.
ditto
-RW
I miss Zhentil Keep. Man, after all they've been through? First Cyric unleashes an army that demolishes their city, and they're forced to rebuild it nearly entirely (except for that foreign quarter). They not only come back from that, but better then ever. And after all that, they get destroyed, again? This time by the Shades? Damn, that sucks. I really wanted to see Zhentil Keep ascendant, but so much for that.
-Have you PC's take it over and rebuild. Make sure you guys are cool with Shade so they dont whoop your Candy
jabroni!!!! :P 18DELTA :D
I am not sure if I missed your post on it, or my question on it. But could you say what has happened to Calimport and Calimsham?
Calimshan is still around and kicking. Calimport is away from the sea with the drop in sea level, though still has a harbour of sorts. I havn't read the portion on it yet, so I can't say more than that right now.
-RW
One question - what is Garl Glittergold's Channel Divinity Feat?
I miss Zhentil Keep. Man, after all they've been through?
-Forget the Zhents. Who cares about them? Queen Amlauril, man!
Thanks for all this work. It is very much appreciated.
One question - what is Garl Glittergold's Channel Divinity Feat?
All the new Channel Divinity feats will be in the Player's Guide with all the other crunch. So you got another month til we know most of them.
Personally I want to know Selune's Channel Divinity feat. :D
-Forget the Zhents. Who cares about them? Queen Amlauril, man!
Bah to you are your pointy eared queen (even though she might make a kick @ss Elderin Noble/ Queen of the Stars)
What about Tey... teth... the country between Amn and Calimsham that has a monarchy.
Red Wizard, any mention of the Srinshee? There were some interesting things happening with her character at the end of Greenwood's latest book, so I'm curious if she's mentioned in the new FRCG?
Which book ending? I seem to recall only that she returned with the blade again, but I don't know where I saw that. And his most recent books were the KoMD werne't they?
-RW
Which book ending? I seem to recall only that she returned with the blade again, but I don't know where I saw that. And his most recent books were the KoMD werne't they?
-RW
Well, maybe not the ending exactly, but in Swords of Dragonfire. Pretty sure that was the one where the Knights met her.
Well, maybe not the ending exactly, but in Swords of Dragonfire. Pretty sure that was the one where the Knights met her.
That series is set in the past though.
-RW
That series is set in the past though.
-RW
Yes, it's set in the past, but it's Ed's current work. Anyway, regardless of that, I'm curious if the Srinshee is mentioned in the new FRCG?
I think the last book in the Last Mythrel series mentions her showing up to give the Arcane Archer Chick the the sword.
Yep that was the book where she was participating in the sword ceremony.
just the use of those serpent race (surucks or something...left book upstairs) that created races like lizardmen, yuan-ti, etc. just states how their empire still exists in various places, especially Chult.
Sanjay
Has anyone NOT returned?
Seriously, when all these guys started showing back up on Troil to "take over the world", Elminster probably told 'em to "take a number".
'Cause in FR, history really comes alive.
I think I need to take a break for a few days again - the more I hear, the sicker I feel.
18DELTA
-Have you PC's take it over and rebuild. Make sure you guys are cool with Shade so they dont whoop your Candy
...my ass is not made of candy.
-Forget the Zhents. Who cares about them? Queen Amlauril, man!
Zhentil Keep, man! Z-H-E-N-T-I-L K-E-E-P!!!
are they living or dead heads
Well, you can always join the Huruafair family of East Rift.
They are my LFR PC's family, a Crinti family that fled to East Rift before the Crinti lost power. A geas enforces all family members to protect the rift against intruders - including (or more likely especially) their once relatives, the drow.
Not official lore, I admit... but if you need a home...
The return of the Sarrukh?
Has anyone NOT returned?
Seriously, when all these guys started showing back up on Troil to "take over the world", Elminster probably told 'em to "take a number".
'Cause in FR, history really comes alive.
I think I need to take a break for a few days again - the more I hear, the sicker I feel.
But MT! The Batrachi are back too! And so are Aerie folks! They've got the shadow subtype now!
I figure the sisters are dead if their link to the Silver Fire was cut off. El is the only Immortal still alive I figure. Just my opinion since I do not have the book yet.
But MT! The Batrachi are back too! And so are Aerie folks! They've got the shadow subtype now!
You're joking.
You're joking.
;p
The Sarrukh returned in 3E IMO.
Ehm, they basically statted one or two and detailed where the last ones had gone into hibernation, pluss some powerless ones that hadn't.
The Sarrukh returned in 3E IMO.
As did some other power groups.
I figure the sisters are dead if their link to the Silver Fire was cut off. El is the only Immortal still alive I figure. Just my opinion since I do not have the book yet.
No, the Simbul is alive, and resides somewhere in the Dalelands (exact location not given, so it is not certain she resides with Elminster - actually my guess is she isn't).
Seriously, the Sarruhk are pretty badass.
The Sarruhk are awesome.
i havent heard anything yet or i just missed it, has there been anything on waterdeep and undermountain? please and thank you
This may be old info to you, but Hallaster is dead as of the Adventure to Undermountain book in 3.5. Apparently he also predicted the Spellplague. As to the current status of Undermountain, I don't know.
-Rich just posted this:But is it really that important to most FR campaigns that there used to be a goddess of streams and ponds called Eldath?
It's important to any player with a character who has Eldath as a patron deity. It's also important to DMs who have NPCs with the same.
Show
I am an example of the latter. One of the major NPCs in my PCs' home city is a blind seeress of Eldath. By taking a vow of non-violence, she has gained deep insight into the events that are transpiring in the campaign, but she is powerless to act directly. The PCs sometimes ask her for advice or to interpret their dreams, and she usually drops somewhat cryptic hints to try and help them solve the problems in the area before they get too much worse.
So when it comes to Lolth, while her number of worshippers may've been cut down, the power of her portfolios may be giving her a lot of energy. One of her Portfolios is Chaos, so fomenting chaos grants her power. Nevermind that a great many of her worshippers are pretty fervent in their belief.
A quick question if you will: From what I understand, the more followers you have, the greater a diety may become. Now after reading The War Of The Spider Queen, I am a bit skeptical to that claim. Many Drow were extinguished from the exsisting underdark, yet Lolth become a Greater Deity after their survival. What is the reasoning for this? (I'm sure it's something small I looked over, but any answers would be greatly appreciated.)
Number of followers only represents a part of the deity's rank. Promoting their portfolios also give them power, and WotSQ had nothing but chaos, one of Lolth's portfolios.
Was a lot busier on my day off today than expected :D
Undermountain:
it is still there, AND due to the powerful magic Halaster used prior, it is bascially in tact AND it held up waterdeep , from collapsing, since it's protective wards i guess are like wall of forces...nothing but wish or disintegrate (in older rules) would destroy them.
HOWEVER, now skullport is not inhabited. As well, there is a wierd wild magic effect that randomly moves around the dungeons..causing all sorts of havoc BUT also sometimes recharging items!!!!
The people who run the city now, send troops down to the easiest (lowest) levels, to guard any illicit trade activities that may occur.
Tilerton - i found mention of it being destroyed..but nothing of "new tilverton"
Mezro - the land mass it was on, collapsed on itself, 200 ft down..so it's ruins nowthat are sunken in where water took over. I think a cool adventure would be using it as underwater ruins...but otherwise semi in tact.
Sanjay
All the new Channel Divinity feats will be in the Player's Guide with all the other crunch. So you got another month til we know most of them.
Personally I want to know Selune's Channel Divinity feat. :D
Wait, so what's in the FRCG, just fluff? Most importantly, where are the churches and deities discussed? I thought the Sharran Church excerpt was from the FRCG...but the thread on it lists it as from the FRPG. Which is the correct location? Will the deities be split good&unaligned/evil as in the core PH/DMG? And dagnabbit, which is the final cover again?? Thanks in advance to anyone who knows answers.
(Also, totally off topic, does it say anywhere that deities can only have one Channel Divinity feat?)
Well, you can always join the Huruafair family of East Rift.
They are my LFR PC's family, a Crinti family that fled to East Rift before the Crinti lost power. A geas enforces all family members to protect the rift against intruders - including (or more likely especially) their once relatives, the drow.
Not official lore, I admit... but if you need a home...
I'll have to look if any members of the Lacûva family survived first (they are quite resourceful you know), but thanks for the offer
Best wishes
Lirdolin Lacûva
Can you provide any information on Kelemvor, plz? Besides his alignment and stuff. He's my favorite Realms god, next to the MIA Mask. :D
Arabel - no mention, but it is on the map and is not ruins..so it appears to have survived in some capacity...
Kelemvor - all it says is unaligned greater god, lord of the dead...presides over passage from life to death. very honest in his role in that he is above good or evil, lawful or chaotic. undead enrage him since he respects very deeply life and death as concepts within the universe, etc. page 75 has his info..
As i mentioned some pages back :P, luskan and neverwinter are destroyed. waterdeep is still around but baldur's gate is now the most populated city in on faerun. silve marshes region i believer is ok..but don't remmeber reading it..i am sure i saw amention of it somewhere.
Regards
Sanjay
As i mentioned some pages back :P, luskan and neverwinter are destroyed. waterdeep is still around but baldur's gate is now the most populated city in on faerun. silve marshes region i believer is ok..but don't remmeber reading it..i am sure i saw amention of it somewhere.
Regards
Sanjay
Wait, Neverwinter's gone? Huh... So much for a NWN3... Unless they plan on having you help rebuild the city... *sigh* Fail, WotC, fail.
:headexplo 
:hoppingma :P
18DELTA :D
Wait, Neverwinter's gone? Huh... So much for a NWN3... Unless they plan on having you help rebuild the city... *sigh* Fail, WotC, fail.
and i wonder why nobody read my thread on the nwn2 that there was no nwn3??
and there wont be unless its:
nwn3: reclamation
or pool of radiance III: Neverwinter.
and i wonder why nobody read my thread on the nwn2 that there was no nwn3??
and there wont be unless its:
nwn3: reclamation
or pool of radiance III: Neverwinter.
Oh, I'm sure there very well may be a NWN3... Don't ask me how long it'll take to come out, let alone what the ruleset will be... The again, Baldur's Gate stopped at how many? As well as Icewind Dale... Hmm... Maybe 4.0 FR might be the age of a new Baldur's Gate.
So liitle was left, I have to wonder once again why they didn't just create Abeir as a new, seperate setting with little or nothing to do with FR.
Rich Baker said that aside from Halruaa, the SS fared farely well. I guess he was wrong again - thy pretty much made the SS a snore-fest. EVERYTHING that made it a place of interest was destoyed... I just don't understand what they were thinking.
And why the hell is the water-level going DOWN in the Trackless Sea?!
That ass-crack the designers decided to add to the planet was only supposed to lower the water-level in the SoFS. If the Trackless Sea is dumping into the Underdark, then there should be NO Underdark. Also, the entire planet has been experiencing 'Global Warming' since just prior to 1e, and all the Glacier are getting smaller! Including the fact that the Shades have been melting the one in Northern Anauroch on purpose. Do the designers even watch the news, or perhaps have taken basic science back in HS? Did they even GO to HS?!
Utterly ridiculous unbelievable crap.
If the Sarruhk are back in action, I am all for it.
Seriously, the Sarruhk are pretty badass.
The Sarruhk are awesome.
Sarrukh were the single MOST broken thing in D&D history... or have you not heard of Pun Pun?
Sarrukh were the single MOST broken thing in D&D history... or have you not heard of Pun Pun?
I know all about Pun Pun. I think my insane fanboyism regarding the Sarruhk derives partly from the fact that they were so broken. As a creator race, the broken bastards just inspire me.
So any info on the fate of Chessenta, Tchazzar and Cimbar in particular?
Did the Sea of the Fallen Stars reveal any Jhaamdathi artifects like the huge annulii of the twelve psionic cities?
What is the fate of the shadow weave?
See that, one goddess is some backwater sphere dies and the whole gadamn multiverse goes to @#$%!
;) :D
See that, one goddess is some backwater sphere dies and the whole gadamn multiverse goes to @#$%!
;) :D
-Makes you think, doesn't it?
Though iirc the spellplague didn't change the cosmology.
I believe the cause was that Asmodeus, who gained divinity by killing Azuth, used his newfound powers to push the Abyss into the Elemental Chaos.
That seems to me what's going on with D&D. The cosmology on the core world has always been that way, and it'll likely turn out to have always been that way in any new campaign settings that are introduced. That'll be assumed to be "the norm", and those prior settings which didn't have that were the ones which deviated from the norm (like the various Earths in the DCU cosmology which had evil Supermen), and any changes which bring them in line with the new cosmology will be events which're wholly local, rather than events which sweep out and touch every single universe and world in existence.
Personally, if I was going to play a 4th Edition game, I would create my own setting built off the 4th Edition cosmology, so that I could legitimately say it was always that way, and not have to deal with the continuity issues. Alternatively, I would adapt the old style as much as possible (ie, find a way for there to be a Bloodwar, and keep around a lot of the old personalities in terms of Archdevils and Demon Lords).
A quick question if you will: From what I understand, the more followers you have, the greater a diety may become. Now after reading The War Of The Spider Queen, I am a bit skeptical to that claim. Many Drow were extinguished from the exsisting underdark, yet Lolth become a Greater Deity after their survival. What is the reasoning for this? (I'm sure it's something small I looked over, but any answers would be greatly appreciated.)
Also, Lolth has worshippers in hundreds - perhaps thousands - of Crystal Spheres (Prime Worlds), so the ones of Toril are just a drop in the bucket.
I found it amusing, though, that during the WotSQ ALL of the 'candidates' came from Toril.
If the author/designers actually new anything about D&D, they would have realized just how idiotic that notion was.
For example, the Drow goddess Kiaransalee was from the world Threnody before she ascended. The fact that SIX authors couldn't figure out what was wrong with the basic premise of the story leaves me shaking my head.
Of course, now that the Spellplague re-aligned the entire Universe, we know that the Realms are obviously the most important Prime World in existance.
I'm just wondering how that'll be handled if/when the old campaign settings are rereleased?
-I want to see how it will be handled in Eberron. I don't know much about Eberron, but I know that it's planar structure is very atypical and unique of the various D&D settings out there.
I found it amusing, though, that during the WotSQ ALL of the 'candidates' came from Toril.
-Well, maybe not. We only know what happened in Realmspace. We don't know what happened elsewhere. Perhaps there were other expeditionary parties to rescue Lolth, but the ones for Realmspace got their first. Or, and this is a personal theory, since it was mentioned that the "new" Lolth had either different guises, perhaps there were eight different Yorthaes (or whatever the term was).
-I want to see how it will be handled in Eberron. I don't know much about Eberron, but I know that it's planar structure is very atypical and unique of the various D&D settings out there.
To my knowledge, the only change to the Ebberon planar cosmology is the inclusion of the Shadowfell. This might change, of course, between now and the setting's release, but going by what I've seen Keith Baker say, at the moment the Shadowfell is it.
To my knowledge, the only change to the Ebberon planar cosmology is the inclusion of the Shadowfell. This might change, of course, between now and the setting's release, but going by what I've seen Keith Baker say, at the moment the Shadowfell is it.
-So, what you are trying to tell me is that the cosmology of the Forgotten Realms had to change, to reflect that of the 'Core' setting, but the cosmology of Eberron didn't have to change, to reflect that of the 'Core' setting (with the exception of the adding in the Plane of Shadows)?
-So, what you are trying to tell me is that the cosmology of the Forgotten Realms had to change, to reflect that of the 'Core' setting, but the cosmology of Eberron didn't have to change, to reflect that of the 'Core' setting (with the exception of the adding in the Plane of Shadows)?
Pretty much. This might change, but as of the moment (judging by things I have read Hellcow say), the inclusion of the Shadowfell is it for Ebberon's plane change.
-Hum...
I know what you mean.
I know what you mean.
I know that too. More and more proof that FR didn't need to be blown the way it was.
I know that too. More and more proof that FR didn't need to be blown the way it was.
I don't think we ever needed proof to knoiw that. The truth is, Ebberon fans played Ebberon, people who weren't Ebberon fans did not complain about Ebberon, Ebberon was left alone. The Realms got such a big change because of a marketing scheme.
I think - and I could be wrong - that they are only getting a two-year timejump now.
The lucky ba......
The fact is, they were planning larger changes, with a decade timejump, but now have scaled that back after seeing the outrage by the die-hard FR fans. James Wyatt had enough sense to just say no to the 4e rules guys and make minimal changes to Eberron (like the Shadowfel).
I think - and I could be wrong - that they are only getting a two-year timejump now.
The lucky ba......
We're getting no time jump at all, which is quite unfortunate, since they just announced changes to the setting that could be explained through one. Like the sudden existance of a new Dragonmarked House.
We're getting no time jump at all, which is quite unfortunate, since they just announced changes to the setting that could be explained through one. Like the sudden existance of a new Dragonmarked House.
The words "Count yourself lucky" spring to mind.
The fact is, they were planning larger changes, with a decade timejump, but now have scaled that back after seeing the outrage by the die-hard FR fans. James Wyatt had enough sense to just say no to the 4e rules guys and make minimal changes to Eberron (like the Shadowfel).
-You know my take on that...A marketing ploy to get on fan's good sides, by "listening to them", when no such thing was being planned to begin with.
The fact is, they were planning larger changes, with a decade timejump, but now have scaled that back after seeing the outrage by the die-hard FR fans. James Wyatt had enough sense to just say no to the 4e rules guys and make minimal changes to Eberron (like the Shadowfel).
I think - and I could be wrong - that they are only getting a two-year timejump now.
The lucky ba......
-Originally it was going to be a 2 year jump for Eberron. :P
18DELTA ;)
I really don't follow whats going on in Eb right now... I've got to much to worry about with FR.
So what're the Shades and the Imaskari up to? What's going on in Cormanthyr? Who are the main players, and what are their views and plans?
Everybody hates everybody, and the only people above level 1 are the PCs and ALL the bad guys.
-You know my take on that...A marketing ploy to get on fan's good sides, by "listening to them", when no such thing was being planned to begin with.
Could be...
I don't know what to believe anymore. I kept thinking all this weird 'talk' this past year was a marketing ploy, and they were really planning on "Wowing" us with the FRCG.
Then we find out their 'brilliant plan' was Abeir... which we knew about all along. They made out at the beginning of all this that they had an "incredible backstory" to explain all the 4e changes.
I was really holding out hope that they'd have one, last phenomenal surprise up their sleeve - launch 4e FR with a real 'bang', ya' know?
Instead, it came out with a tiny fizzle.
So what're the Shades and the Imaskari up to? What's going on in Cormanthyr? Who are the main players, and what are their views and plans?
-Zsych! Shade and Evermeet had a titanic battle, that played out exactly in our thread! It was horrible. Quasimagical items, and fireballs and High Magic rituals, and the Starwing fleet!!
-No, not really, but that'd be funny*.
*Not literally funny, but in another sort of funny.
So it did play out that way, even if the details changed.
and Evermeet is gone...
-Why is that full of WIN to me? :D That alone makes we want to buy that book. :P
18DELTA :heehee
What, did we FR fans not compain enough? I wish we had Eberron's designers.
No word on the Vast, or what happened to Abeir-swapped lands? Have they been utterly wiped out?
Yeah - Demons have been rolled into Elementals - they are the 'corrupoted' form of them now.
See that, one goddess is some backwater sphere dies and the whole gadamn multiverse goes to @#$%!
;) :D
You clearly did not understand the true implications of Mystra's death. Just to let you on a little secret: Mystra was cursed by AO at her birth to cause Multiversal catastrophe should she die exactly 9 times.
Although the mortals in FR falsely believe this is her 3rd death, this will soon change with the next retcon.
As I recall, Eberron was going to receive a two-year jump to explain some minor changes, but the hue and cry from the fans convinced the designers to keep Eberron at its famous static point in time. So it will receive some retcons instead.
So let me get this straight... they CRIED about a friggin' TWO YEAR time-jump, and now the designers aren't giving them any?!
We really are the 'ugly step-child' to them, aren't we?
What, did we FR fans not compain enough? I wish we had Eberron's designers.
Preaching to the choir, man.
James Wyatt = WIN, Chris Perkins = MUST BE STOPPED!!!
No word on the Vast, or what happened to Abeir-swapped lands? Have they been utterly wiped out?
I think RW and Sanjay decided to just read their books first, and then answer questions. ;)
As I recall, Eberron was going to receive a
What, did we FR fans not compain enough? I wish we had Eberron's designers.
ummm mr. Perkins as I recall was an eberron fan.
and to me, that was the problem. and i will leave it at that
FR looks the way it does so everyone would either switch to Eberron, or go running to Paizo.
Way to kill a setting, Mr. Perkins. I knew these guys had a private agenda against FR... there's no way in hell they could have wrote that book and NOT hated it.
and well when yer paid to look the otherway.....
and when the only way out is to go to hasbro and have them invalidate the dont work for wotc's compeditors contract.
or do it with a pen name
but the main problem is that I already thought that regardless of what book the prc or feat showed up in, it was usable in any campaign setting.
the races of each setting could show up in any setting too, but the explanation would be a pain...
so why they went and did it this way in 4e, I dunno,,
THere is a mention of psionics:
page 51....
it mentions 2 epic styled monstrosities that the spellplague created. One, created from a dwarf miner, is some type of super blob...within the dungeons below Westgate.
The Plaguechanged Thing. It states the expansions of it's mind and thought processes have given it psionic abilities, but it's so big, it can't really leave it's dungeon lair area.
Sanjay
So let me get this straight... they CRIED about a friggin' TWO YEAR time-jump, and now the designers aren't giving them any?!
And they're cutting back on Eberron novels. (Though this is actually a bad thing for the fans.)
But it looks as though the Dragonmarked Houses will go the same way as the Red Wizards, with no race restrictions. And they're gaining a new House, and a plane, which messes up the 12+1 "Baker's Dozen" numbering scheme.
I haven't really followed Eberron for a while though. Maybe there's more. Or I'm mistaken.
I think RW and Sanjay decided to just read their books first, and then answer questions. ;)
I guess that would be a more satisfying use of their purchase.
i made an error back on page 2 or 3 ..whatever it was.
THere is a mention of psionics:
page 51....
it mentions 2 epic styled monstrosities that the spellplague created. One, created from a dwarf miner, is some type of super blob...within the dungeons below Westgate.
The Plaguechanged Thing. It states the expansions of it's mind and thought processes have given it psionic abilities, but it's so big, it can't really leave it's dungeon lair area.
Sanjay
Huh, I thought I added that somewhere....At the very least I meant too. Good catch if i didn't.
-RW
i made an error back on page 2 or 3 ..whatever it was.
THere is a mention of psionics:
page 51....
it mentions 2 epic styled monstrosities that the spellplague created. One, created from a dwarf miner, is some type of super blob...within the dungeons below Westgate.
The Plaguechanged Thing. It states the expansions of it's mind and thought processes have given it psionic abilities, but it's so big, it can't really leave it's dungeon lair area.
Sanjay
At least there was *some* mention of Psionics though I am disappointed that Auppenser or Jhaamdath didn't have more impact post-Spellplague.
@AskaniPsion: I'd say Auppensor and Jhaamdath are toast. Without Mystra to sustain him, and no real worship-base, Auppensor probably just died, and with the way Toril is that might mean the death of all real psionics - although with magic no longer related to gods, that may not be the case. Of course, if psionics doesn't need a god, then perhaps it won't have one, just as magic no longer does.
And they're cutting back on Eberron novels. (Though this is actually a bad thing for the fans.
Not really... have you read any of them?
I read the first one - by Keith Baker himself - I was barely able to finish it. What a yawn-fest.
When novels are canon, they force the setting to advance (stuff happens = time passes). This is why while some people around here were complaining about RAS's style of writing in the past, I preferred it, because then it wouldn't effect the game setting.
I think, if they were smart (big 'if'), they would NOT write ANY novels in the 4e era, and keep everything 3e and the century in-between editions. I think that would be the perfect solution, and keep EVERYONE happy.
This way, one edition's past is another edition's future. The novels will pertain to both, without effecting either.
Not really... have you read any of them?
I read the first one - by Keith Baker himself - I was barely able to finish it. What a yawn-fest.
some of them are pretty good
oh and btw, Szass Tam has the highest level of anything in the book (with full stats)..30
Sanjay
The highest thing I've found (so far) is Rorn: level 33 solo primordial.
Not really... have you read any of them?
No. I read some blurbs in the bookshop once. I'm just estimating the situation based on a skim read of some threads in the Eberron board.
To think, a few years ago, I chose between Forgotten Realms and Eberron for a world I wanted to DM, and went with FR for the culture, detail, history, flavour and familiarity. And now which setting has all that?
I like a setting that doesn't advance, or does so very slowly, so one doesn't have to keep up with unwelcome events that may affect the campaign. But then, I play online in a shared world that started in 1375 five years ago, and only a few months have passed since. It's a bit of a surprise to learn that the area you're in is recovering from a recent dragon rage or something. Eh, now I'm just glad that I can stop trying to follow the new Realms and we can make the current place our own.
The highest thing I've found (so far) is Rorn: level 33 solo primordial.
Ummm... is it my imagination, or do the primordials have some of the MOST un-creative sounding names EVA?!
What next? Grog the Barbarinan?
Now Chronepsis... theres a name! My all-time favorite... it just rolls off the tongue. I wish these new designers could handle more then single-syllables.
@LK: Actually our little war happening would have been exponentially cooler, and over a period of a hundred years, leaving Fearun totally changed would actually be understandable then :P
-I'd prefer our scenario, I guess. ;)
When novels are canon, they force the setting to advance (stuff happens = time passes).
-This is why, while some Eberron novels have intrigued me, I've never bothered picking any of them up. They aren't canon, and don't matter. There's no point, other than a quick read. I enjoy Forgotten Realms novels because they matter.
some of them are pretty good
-Aren't you the guy always putting Eberron down? What gives? :P
-This is why, while some Eberron novels have intrigued me, I've never bothered picking any of them up. They aren't canon, and don't matter. There's no point, other than a quick read. I enjoy Forgotten Realms novels because they matter.
I dont really care if they are canon or not: the Binding Stone Trilogy was an extremely fun read, and so is the Doom of Kings.
On that tangent, aside from Swordmage, do any other FR novels take place in the 4E Realms?
-Aren't you the guy always putting Eberron down? What gives? :P
Everything starts looking better when your staring at crap. ;)
On that tangent, aside from Swordmage, do any other FR novels take place in the 4E Realms?
-So far, that's the only one. A few novels take place in the transitory period between 1375 DR and 1479 DR, but those are transitory.
-The prologue and epilogue of The Orc King also takes place in 1479 DR, though the bulk of the book doesn't.
True.
Ummm... is it my imagination, or do the primordials have some of the MOST un-creative sounding names EVA?!
What next? Grog the Barbarinan?
Now Chronepsis... theres a name! My all-time favorite... it just rolls off the tongue. I wish these new designers could handle more then single-syllables.
Well, they are engines of creation and destruction.
Bel
Well, they are engines of creation and destruction.
Bel
-Twin engines of creation and destruction. Sounds so much better. ;)
I mean, I like Khorne and all, but don't you think that Games Workshop's IPs should stay with their games?
:raincloud
On the plus side I suppose I can sell my 4e boxed set since I only bought the one thing in order to play the other.
The new game/setting has NO staying power. Once the novelty wears off, its re-payability is sorely lacking.
And 4e FR is like an 'Un-setting'.
The Abeir-Returned thing? Eh.
Sea of Fallen Stars thing? Eh.
Blowing up Halruaa? Eh. (Yes I saw the preview but actually seeing it in the book makes me ache a bit. It's nonsensical.)
The thing with the gold dwarf kingdom? What?
The deal with Mulhorand? Hmm.
This is not the Realms. This is one version that was picked out of any number of possibilities, ala Infinity Crisis, and published. That's as far as I can care to describe it.
I can handle the deity trimdown in comparison, with the idea that mortals were unaware of what the real power levels were. And also, by making many of the remaining deities exarchs/demigods they actually become more accessible (at least by my way of thinking). But that is something I can do on my own without paying $40 for a book.
Btw, another thing I noticed when I was in B&N: stacks of 4e core books. Same positioning, same books. Guess they aren't selling as well in my area, perhaps that's the real reason why not a single copy of the FRCG was available there.