I don't understand!!!

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

tianchris

Mar 16, 2008 9:05:20
Hi. I'm Italian fun of Wizard and I have bought the book "City of Splendor: Waterdeep". While I read this, I have meet some words that I don't understand. Can you help me? The words are "rowhouse" and "festhall".

Thanks
#2

msatran

Mar 16, 2008 11:36:33
Festhall: Forgotten Realms Slang for a House of Prostitution.

Rowhouse: (Uncertain) A place where people gamble on cheap fights.
#3

bloodtide_the_red

Mar 16, 2008 14:37:58
You sure that's not FeastHall? That's a big buliding that sells food....a fast food place. Feast=big meal, hall=big empty room.

Rowhouse-theas are simply houses bulit it rows. They are common enough in Europe as America. Tall skinny houses, bulit right next to each other in stright rows.

BT
#4

Khaelieth

Mar 16, 2008 15:00:51
Festhall's just another word for a brothel.

Rowhouse i'm not that sure about. What's the context?
#5

Shiftkitty

Mar 16, 2008 17:01:20
ROWHOUSE

One of a group of an unbroken line of attached houses that share common side walls, known as party walls.
www.nyc.gov/html/lpc/html/glossary/glossary.shtml

A residential building, usually built as rental apartments, in which the floor plan is commonly repeated from unit to unit, with each unit sharing a wall with the adjacent one. The building has a single continuous wall along the street.
www.cityofutica.org/gloss.doc

In architecture and city planning, a terrace, rowhouse, or townhouse (though the latter term can also refer to patio houses) is a style of housing in use since the late 17th century, where a row of identical or mirror-image houses share side walls. ...
www.holmesdiversified.com/dictionary.htm

Historically in the United Kingdom, Ireland and in many other countries, a townhouse (or a "house in town") was a residence of a peer or member of the aristocracy in the capital or major city. Most such figures owned one or more country houses in which they lived for much of the year. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowhouse

I believe ROW (rhymes with 'go') is the word they mean, as opposed to ROW (rhymes with 'how'), which is another word for 'fight'.

Still, context may help us clarify the definitions.
#6

Another_Gnome

Mar 16, 2008 18:12:26
Festhall is (presumably) short for "festivity hall", and even though many of them are little more than sugarcoating the word, the proper modern analogy would be "night club".
#7

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Mar 16, 2008 19:11:12
As per Ed Greenwood, a "festhall" in the Realms refers to a brothel.

Of course, it could also be a nightclub as well (one that also happens to offer sex for sale).
#8

markustay63

Mar 16, 2008 23:57:55
In the Realms, there is not so much distinction between a Brothel and a Nightclub.

If its actually called a Brothel, then sex is ALL it has to offer. If it is called a festhall, then sex is just one of the many 'distractions' offered to 'partrying people' (food being another).

I just finished reading the Novel Waterdeep recently, and the main characters ran into a woman (noble, in fact) they new inside the Festhall, ergo women other then prostitutes frequent the place...

Although they are both probably after the same thing. ;)

The term 'rowhouses' I haven't really heard in American English, but we have codes against buildings/homes sharing common walls, so I would go with the definition provided by others about them being 'Housing Projects' of a medieval sort.
#9

tianchris

Mar 17, 2008 7:04:01
Thanks very much!

The word "festhall" is correct and the explains for "rowhouse" are great.

Thanks
#10

Shiftkitty

Mar 17, 2008 9:23:15
Rowhouses in San Francisco:
IMAGE(http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/8803/rowhouse1qa6.jpg)
IMAGE(http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6958/rowhouse2mp2.jpg)

In San Francisco, they are known as rowhouses. Elsewhere they're usually called condos, condominiums, or townhouses. My brother used to call them "Fighter Pilot's Delight", because one strafing run could wreak so much havoc.
#11

Khaelieth

Mar 17, 2008 12:10:50
Rowhouses in San Francisco:
IMAGE(http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/8803/rowhouse1qa6.jpg)
IMAGE(http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6958/rowhouse2mp2.jpg)

In San Francisco, they are known as rowhouses. Elsewhere they're usually called condos, condominiums, or townhouses. My brother used to call them "Fighter Pilot's Delight", because one strafing run could wreak so much havoc.

But why would a fighter pilot be aiming for rowhouses?
#12

Bullet06320

Mar 17, 2008 12:58:05
But why would a fighter pilot be aiming for rowhouses?

Target Practise?
#13

daenaan

Mar 17, 2008 13:18:11
In the Realms, there is not so much distinction between a Brothel and a Nightclub.

If its actually called a Brothel, the sex is ALL it has to offer. If it is called a festhall, then sex is just one of the many 'distractions' offered to 'partrying people' (food being another).

That's exactly right. A "festhall" in the Realms is not just a brothel. It is a place where many different kinds of entertainment (music, dancing, games, snacks, drinks, etc.) are also offered. There are women (and men also, usually) who sell themselves for the evening, like a brothel - but it's not just about the sex. They could serve as an escort for the evening while sampling the various entertainments (with or without sex after you retire upstairs), or you could skip hiring one and just enjoy the other entertainment.

Depending on the festhall, the courtesans and entertainers could specialize in different things. At one place it might be light music and magical light displays while the courtesan initially plays chess or cards with you, at another it could be loud groups of rowdy people singing and watching veiled dancers strip off their veils, and at a third it could focus on scented communal baths with minimally dressed minstrels (or private baths upstairs). They really vary, depending on the Realms city. Sex is just sort of the final thing that might be involved with hiring a courtesan at a festhall, and it's not necessary to hire someone for that purpose if you're just interested in the other entertainments for that evening. Mainly, it's just that the price would be higher if sex is expected as part of the evening.
#14

Shiftkitty

Mar 17, 2008 14:20:31
But why would a fighter pilot be aiming for rowhouses?

To demoralize the enemy. Hit their families where they live. Make them feel helpless and hit something personal. Psychological warfare. Despicable, really, but if your goal is to disrupt the enemy's ability to make war, why not hit major population centers? Hit the factories and shipyards while you can, but most governments don't bother to put anti-aircraft batteries in neighborhoods.

Of course, I should explain that my brother tends to think in terms of WW2 equipment. It's his favorite era, so I just know he was imagining a Japanese Zero making a pass, while I was imagining an F22 getting a lock on said Zero.
#15

markustay63

Mar 17, 2008 15:32:14
In San Francisco, they are known as rowhouses. Elsewhere they're usually called condos, condominiums, or townhouses. My brother used to call them "Fighter Pilot's Delight", because one strafing run could wreak so much havoc.

Don't know about elsewhere, but there are legal definitions that seperate Townhouses, Condos, and THOSE homes you show pictured.

A Condo is basically a one-story apartment you own, but only the interior. A Townhouse, while similar, is usually two-story, and the owners have a share in the external property. There is some overlapping in both directions, though.

What you show there are commonly called 'Railroad Flats' in NY, or 'Brownstones' if taller. Do those share a common wall, as was mentioned for the European 'Rowhouses'?

In NY, structures existing on seperate pieces of property are not allowed to TOUCH, let alone share common walls. There are quite a few older buildings that do, but they are usual 'historical' and are so old their rules are 'grandfathered', and they don't have to conform to the modern codes.

Those homes there are obviously on seperate pieces of property that are individually owned, very much unlike Condos and Townhouses. Reminds me of houses in Brooklyn that are only 1-5 feet apart.

IMAGE(http://clasticdetritus.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/brooklyn_brownstones.jpg)

same basic idea though.

On Festhalls: I don't think the prostitutes actually work for the Festhalls - I think they are 'welcome' to come in and ply their trade, and the 'house' probably has certain standards about who can enter and who can't (high-class hookers only :D ). In some cases the 'House' may require a 'cut', but I think its more along the lines that the place makes IT'S money when it rents out the rooms for an hour or so. Rooms are rented by the hour there, and not for just sexual purposes (clandestine meetings, drug-parties, orgies, bot mitzvahs, etc...) :P
#16

SmartPaladin

Mar 17, 2008 15:44:17
To demoralize the enemy. Hit their families where they live. Make them feel helpless and hit something personal. Psychological warfare. Despicable, really, but if your goal is to disrupt the enemy's ability to make war, why not hit major population centers? Hit the factories and shipyards while you can, but most governments don't bother to put anti-aircraft batteries in neighborhoods.

Of course, I should explain that my brother tends to think in terms of WW2 equipment. It's his favorite era, so I just know he was imagining a Japanese Zero making a pass, while I was imagining an F22 getting a lock on said Zero.

Oh paper, that works great. However, depending on the foe one is at war with, it could come back and bite you on the backside. The attack on Pearl Harbor springs to mind... As do the 911 attacks...
#17

tianchris

Mar 17, 2008 15:46:46
However there isn't a contest for "row house" becouse is a word use in the maps of the book "City of Splendor: Waterdeep". I think that "row house" is an house in which people can take a room and live here
#18

Shiftkitty

Mar 17, 2008 16:40:28
Oh paper, that works great. However, depending on the foe one is at war with, it could come back and bite you on the backside. The attack on Pearl Harbor springs to mind... As do the 911 attacks...

Never said war was intelligent...;)

MarkusTay Legal definitions vs. common parlance, I guess. We lived in a two story unit defined on the contract as a condominium. California terminology, maybe? (PS I thought a brownstone referred to a particular material and architectural style?)
#19

lord_karsus

Mar 17, 2008 17:23:13
(PS I thought a brownstone referred to a particular material and architectural style?)

-Yeah, brownstones have that room in the middle there that sticks out. And, of course, they're made of brown bricks. Brownstones would be a subcategory of rowhouses, though.
#20

old_sage

Mar 17, 2008 18:38:15
As per Ed Greenwood, a "festhall" in the Realms refers to a brothel.

Jeff Grubb applied the term "festhall" to Ed’s "brothels" for TSR Code of Ethics reasons.

More from Ed:-
"...“festhalls” [...] vary in customs, but the more elaborate ones ARE “a cross between a private club, a casino, and a brothel.”
This is due to the fact that many folk in Faerûn can readily couple with someone (on a rooftop or behind a midden in crowded cities, and ‘out in the woods’ or in a nearby thicket or hollow in a distant pasture, in a rural setting) if mere sexual gratification is all they want. What they go to the brothels for (and yes, some of these establishments are private clubs, particularly those specializing in S&M, mate-swapping, or inter-species congress) is for ‘added fun.’

By this term, I mean: striptease performances, playacting and dressing up in outlandish costumes (“Hah, my pretty, I’m not merely Rorold the fat butcher from down the street - - I’m Ravagar Wanderglar, dread pirate of the Serpent Seas!”), the chance to gamble (betting one’s body, temporary freedom, or items of clothing) or gambol (yes, dance), make love to music, have access to situations visitors wouldn’t dare try outside a club (mock **** of a priest or priestess or ruler or other authority figure), making love on a tomb, crossdressing, eating food off the bodies of strangers, and so on), and the chance (particularly in masked revels) to enjoy someone else in a small community who’s married to someone else - - to ‘find’ each other in public, or even be seen heading off to a tryst, would cause a scandal, but going to the brothel separately and getting up to all manner of hijinx there, even (in some cases) if observed by fellow community members, is ‘okay’ (the brothel is accepted as ‘outside’ normal society, a safety valve in which folk can temporarily set aside their usual public manner and status).

I see the popularity of brothels in the Realms as based on the Faerûnian love of play: as in our real world, children lose many opportunities for playing as they grow up (unless they can shift into participation in a sport, or acting, or performing and use that as an outlet), but brothels offer a place to go on playing, lifelong.

Some people never engage in a sexual physical act at a brothel, but visit them often. Some of these go to watch the fun (ogling), some go for the chance to flirt or make lewd suggestions they’d never dare utter elsewhere, and some just like to chat or play cards or drink with others while naked, or while crossdressing, or while pretending to be of a race or profession (example: the pirate above) that they’re not. Some folks frequent festhalls to play tag, or blindfolded tag, or all sorts of other games that again, are play but not necessarily sexual.

(And then of course there are also brothels that are ‘simple *****houses,’ particularly in ports where sailors make landing after long voyages without access to ‘fresh faces,’ or caravans disperse ditto.)"
#21

old_sage

Mar 17, 2008 18:40:54
On Festhalls: I don't think the prostitutes actually work for the Festhalls - I think they are 'welcome' to come in and ply their trade, and the 'house' probably has certain standards about who can enter and who can't (high-class hookers only :D ). In some cases the 'House' may require a 'cut', but I think its more along the lines that the place makes IT'S money when it rents out the rooms for an hour or so. Rooms are rented by the hour there, and not for just sexual purposes (clandestine meetings, drug-parties, orgies, bot mitzvahs, etc...) :P

The Warm Wondra's in Tantras is a good example of a true festhall in the Realms.

From Ed:-

"The wildest festhall in Tantras, Warm Wondra’s, is also on Roardragon Way (the main street running along the southern edge of the docks), and it truly is a festhall: nightly shows are held there from dusk until dawn, beginning with contortionists, comedians, jugglers, and players who perform short bawdy works, and progressing through minstrels who put on rousing sequences of drinking and ‘slay the dragon’ songs, to a farce play involving maidens who get disrobed by monsters or villains (the audience is encouraged to boo, hiss, cheer, and even help deliver lines if they buy drinks for the actors), and finally to out-and-out exotic dancing and sex-for-coin activity (all of which is legal; the masked, cudgel-wielding Watch of Tantras are there -- just as they are on their frequent street, dockside, and tavern patrols -- to keep order, arresting persons who draw steel, wound others, or start fires, and ejecting the unruly onto the street)."
#22

markustay63

Mar 17, 2008 21:06:22
Yeah, thats what I figured - A 'true' Festhall would be like a non-stop Spring Break, with lots of partying and sometimes disgusting debauchery taking place, along side all of the normal 'shows'.
#23

meldread

Mar 17, 2008 22:46:12
(“Hah, my pretty, I’m not merely Rorold the fat butcher from down the street - - I’m Ravagar Wanderglar, dread pirate of the Serpent Seas!”)

Another reason Sharess deserves to be more than just a demigoddess. ;)

Seriously, I love the bit about the pirate. I got a mental image of a drunken fat butcher, dressed in a pirates costume (eye patch and all), chasing a giggling young woman around a faux pirate captain's quarters ranting on and on about how he wanted to show her his "peg leg". :P

"Arrgh! You'll not escape Ravagar Wanderglar, dread pirate of the Serpent Seas until you've walked the plank! Arrgh!"

"Oh, Rorold!" (The scantily clad female giggles.)

"Oi, wench stay in character! I'm Ravagar Wanderglar! I paid ye 5 silver to be the lusty maiden! Now stay in character or I'll cut ye in half wit me blade!" (The fat faux butcher-pirate waves an obviously fake sword at her threateningly, and she continues to giggle and run around the faux pirate cabin.)