I want to begin with this world. I'm DM and I want to be sure that I know what I talk about.
So, I ask you: what is the most important novels about the Forgotten Realms that I should (MUST) read to know about this world?
Thanks for your answers and your time.
Hello!
I want to begin with this world. I'm DM and I want to be sure that I know what I talk about.
So, I ask you: what is the most important novels about the Forgotten Realms that I should (MUST) read to know about this world?
Thanks for your answers and your time.
Hey there.
This is a broad question, especially considering the gap between 3E and 4E, but I'll give it a go. In terms of general novels that will help you understand important history, there's:
Evermeet: Island of Elves (Elaine Cunningham) - One of the greatest FR novels is also the most important novel with regards to the elves, one of Faerun's major races. The novel covers the entire history of the elves, from the divine conflicts of the Seldarine, the elven deities, moving on to the arrival of elves on Faerun, to the evolution of their culture over time. The story also focuses on the affairs of Evermeet itself, the island sacred to the elves, and which was, prior to the events of the Last Mythal trilogy, their "last bastion" of sorts.
The Last Mythal Trilogy (Richard Baker) - This trilogy is a sort of successor series to Evermeet. It focuses on the return of the elves from Evermeet to mainland Faerun, to combat ancient enemies long thought imprisoned. The trilogy describes the elven crusade to drive their foes from their ancient cities, in the process reclaiming that which was abandoned long ago. It's an important trilogy when considering the state of Myth Drannor in the present day.
Cormyr Saga [Cormyr, Beyond the High Road, Death of the Dragon] (Ed Greenwood, Jeff Grubb, Troy Denning) - Focuses on the grand history of Cormyr, one of the most powerful (and popular) nations in all Faerun. It focuses on the early days of Cormyr, back before the Forest Kingdom was in human hands, and provides a sweeping look at its long history, including the evolution of the monarchy, the plots of its enemies, and the present day predicaments of the Obarskyr line. The story evolves into a grand plot against King Azoun IV and his line, and culminates with the succession of power in the Obarskyr line.
Avatar Series [Shadowdale, Tantras, Waterdeep, Prince of Lies, Crucible: Trial of Cyric the Mad] - This series describes the Time of Troubles, the period when the gods of the Realms walked among mortals and struggled to survive without their divine powers. The story focuses on the spellcaster Midnight, the cursed warrior Kelemvor, the treacherous Cyric, and the scarred Adon, as they journey to aid the goddess Mystra and restore order to the world. Though not a particularly well-written series, in my opinion, it technically is a good source of information for the elevation of new gods.
Return of the Archwizards Trilogy [The Summoning, The Siege, The Sorceror] (Troy Denning) - Again, this novel is worthy of a read for background information, not for an engaging story. It describes the return of the ancient Shade Enclave, long thought lost to the world when the Netherese Empire collapsed under Karsus. The story focuses on the return of Shade, and its plot to simultaneously exterminate its sworn foes, the life-leeching phaerimm, and maneuver itself against the nations of the Heartlands.
The Twilight War Trilogy [Shadowbred, Shadowstorm, Shadowrealm] (Paul Kemp) - This, too, provides an important background into the return of Shade/Netheril as a dominant power in Faerun, but unlike the RotA, this trilogy was very well-written (in my opinion). The story focuses on the Chosen of Mask, God of Thieves - Cale and Riven. The two seek a way to aid their friend Magadon, bastard son of the archdevil Mephistopheles, but are forced into the Sembian civil war and the interference of Netheril, which culminates in total chaos. In the background lies a greater conflict - one between Mask and Shar, Goddess of Loss. To fully understand this trilogy, though, not only do I suggest reading RotA, but also the Erevis Cale trilogy.
Ed Greenwood Presents Waterdeep [Blackstaff Tower, Mistshore, Downshadow, City of the Dead, The God Catcher, Circle of Skulls] - These stories are individual novels, sharing but one major theme - their location in the city of Waterdeep, major metropolis of the north. The books also focus on the various intrigues of the city, ranging from the top to the bottom of the social strata. The good thing is that you can pick up any one and get a pretty good feel for one of the most important cities in all Faerun (though in the case of Blackstaff Tower, you're best bet is to read its prequel, Blackstaff.)
the answer is none of them, you don't have to read any of them according to th wotc when they brought the FR into 4e.
that said, there is what we reccomend you read, but you're really required to know any of it even if you plan on playing the previous edition realms.
that said, my reccomendation on top OF what his Lordship of MAgical Might stated:
Silverfall( Ed Greenwood) stories of the seven sisters
Annotated Elmister(Elmisnter: making of a mage, Temptation of ELminster and ELminster in Myth DRannor) if you can't find this collection of novels, I think Elminster ascendant ( or something like that) is a paper version of the hard back collector's version. It details mostly on Elminster's early life and shows a few details of various spots in the Forgotten Realms.
any of the first 3 Drizzt collections, the hunter's blade and the road to neverwinter are not necessary , but the first three trilogies show off Icewind Dale, parts of Luskan and Calimport on the serface, and parts of the city of the spider queen below.
But... I have read that there is a difference between the 3E Forgotten Realms and the 4E. What is this all about? Do this meant that the novels written before the 4E isn't compatible with the ones that will be written now?
It is a very different setting, mostly because the designers decided to break with FR's past.
I would like to note, for newbies to the setting, that this is a debatable statement.
Whether the designers "broke with FR's past" or not, depends on your definition of what that means.
Did they invalidate all the lore that's accumulated over the last twenty-five years? No, it's all still there, and all still valid/canonical.
Did they jump the setting forward a hundred years and put in a century of mystery as a buffer with the status quo we knew in 3e? Yes, they did indeed do that.
So that's the state of things. In 3e and before, we basically had access to a lot more historical continuity than we do in 4e, where a lot about the century jump has been left purposefully unexplained (and is being gradually filled in). And note that just because it *hasn't* been filled in, doesn't mean it *won't* be filled in--it just provides the perception of more freedom to innovate without having to stick so firmly to a set of canonical historical information.
And as to whether it's a "very different setting" or not depends on your point of view and your own game. I think the Realms as a setting is a lot of things to a lot of people--to me, it's very much the same setting I've gamed/read/written in since 6th grade.
Cheers
Dude! You work for WotC. You have a bias to defend their choices.
I, on the other hand, am a perfectly neutral gamer and my wallet is supreme.
In point of fact, I do *not* work for WotC. I draw no pay-check from them, receive no health benefits from them, and answer to no oversight from them regarding what I say on the boards (other than the NDAs I have signed about my novels, etc.)
I am a self-employed, freelance writer and longtime fan of the Realms, nothing more, nothing less.
I said what I did because I don't want the false impression floated that one can't run a compelling, interesting, and classic Realmsian campaign in the 4e FR. I myself am doing so (or, at least, I like to think I am).
I do confess I have a vested interest in the success of the Realms as an IP (as I do occasionally write novels and game products for the setting, and I'm actively interested in writing more), but my points above are spoken as a fan.
And as a fan, if I earnestly thought WotC screwed the pooch or otherwise messed up something I truly love, I would simply stop writing for them. At least give me *that* benefit of the doubt.
Cheers
P.S. And let me further state that I don't agree with all WotC's choices or decisions regarding the 4e incarnation of the setting, and if it were up to me, the transition into 4e would have been rather different. This is, however, what we've got, and I've made the decision to stick with it--help pilot the ship, rather than abandon it.
In point of fact, I do *not* work for WotC. I draw no pay-check from them, receive no health benefits from them, and answer to no oversight from them regarding what I say on the boards (other than the NDAs I have signed about my novels, etc.) I am a self-employed, freelance writer and longtime fan of the Realms, nothing more, nothing less.
Interestingly, the word "freelance" appears to derive from knights in the Middle Ages.
"Bias" as Goldomark refers to, that also has a somewhat open definition. But usually, it means "a tendency or preference toward a particular perspective, when that tendency interferes with the ability to remain objective."
Full-time employees cannot usually be 100% objective in what they say publicly about their employer or about the products their company makes. For openly expressing a negative opinion, they might get fired and lose their salary and benefits. They can express negative opinions about other companies or products, though, and sometimes are even encouraged to do so: "Swishy Soap is better than Swashy Soap," for example.
Freelance employees (and I'm speaking generally here, not referring to you personally Eric), are under a similar bind. However, although it is somewhat less strong of a bind with any single employer, they must guard what they say about multiple future contractors who might employ them. Although freelancers could not lose an ongoing salary and/or benefits of a full-time job for speaking negatively about an employer or a product, they could potentially lose the chance at future short-term contracts with that company... so they must guard what they say about many companies that they might eventually work with. And many freelancers might take a permanent position if offered one.
It is therefore in a freelancer's best interests never to speak negatively about any company that might possibly contract with them. To believe that freelancers can be fully objective would be, well, a little naive. Only a person with nothing to lose (even potential future contracts) can be fully objective, and therefore "unbiased."
That said, I don't think you're just being positive for the sake of being positive, Eric. With your upcoming Neverwinter supplement and with the potential more novels, I do think that you truly believe in the products that you've had a hand in. It's good to see that positive outlook, and quite honestly I will say that I believe in your design skills far more than some others.
Speaking purely for myself, I find most stuff that Ed Greenwood writes does that with me... Elaine Cunningham on the otherhand, while an excellent writer according to most who read her, just doesn't really resonate with me for whatever reason. That's not to say I think she sucks or anything, just that her work doesn't speak to me, personally. Plenty of folks think the same thing about Ed's work, while I thoroughly enjoy his characterizations. Different strokes and all that...
What I'd actually recommend the most is starting with short story anthologies, finding which authors appeal the most, and then going from there to build your list of 'must-read' books.
It is therefore in a freelancer's best interests never to speak negatively about any company that might possibly contract with them. To believe that freelancers can be fully objective would be, well, a little naive. Only a person with nothing to lose (even potential future contracts) can be fully objective, and therefore "unbiased."
That said, I don't think you're just being positive for the sake of being positive, Eric. With your upcoming Neverwinter supplement and with the potential more novels, I do think that you truly believe in the products that you've had a hand in. It's good to see that positive outlook, and quite honestly I will say that I believe in your design skills far more than some others.
Thanks, JH.
As I said, I don't agree with everything, but then, I understand that it's impossible to please everyone, so it's not a surprise that I don't like everything. Even if I weren't a freelance writer who works with WotC sometimes, I wouldn't push my own negative opinions on others, because A) people have their own opinions and what works for me doesn't necessarily work for someone else (and vice versa), and B) I don't think it's my place to tear down someone else's hard work.
On matters I dislike, I keep silent. But since I keep silent on quite a lot, just because of time/interest limitations, one can only speculate on what I don't like. What I do really like (and have time to talk about), I will talk about.
NOW, back to the topic at hand:
My personal take on what novels you should read before running a game is this: Obviously, by posting this thread, you are open to reading the novels for canonical data, characterizations, Realmsian tone, and/or inspiration. Here are a few recommendations from me, and what you should look for in each one. Also, if you're dealing heavily with some major events, go for the associated novel. (Note also that the novels are not intended to be straight-jackets but rather inspirations for you and your game. Pick and choose what you want. If you want your characters to become the heroes of a particular novel story, go for it!)
(I'm also not going to recommend any of my books specifically, out of modesty.)
Note that I'm going by memory, and there are a LOT of books out there. So if I forget one or typo an author attribution, don't hurt me!
Core Realms Novels (these I consider the core Realms novels that you should read if you want to get a sense of the setting; if at least some of these work for you, you're a Realmsian)
Darkwalker on Moonshae (Niles)
Spellfire (Greenwood)
Azure Bonds (+ series) (Grubb and Novak)
Elfshadow (and sequels) (Cunningham)
Crystal Shard (and the rest of the Icewind Dale trilogy) (Salvatore)
Pool of Radiance (+ Pools of Darkness) (Grubb and Novak)
City of Ravens (Byers)
Sembia series (various)
Twilight Falling (+ Erevis Cale trilogy) (Kemp)
Knights of Myth Drannor trilogy (Greenwood)
Event (if you're focusing on a specific event, check these out)
Horselords (+ Dragonwall and Crusade) (various?): invasion from the east (1350/60s?)
Avatar Trilogy (various): time of troubles (1358)
Return of the Archwizards (Denning): return of shade (1372)
Year of Rogue Dragons (Byers): dragonrage (1373)
Last Mythal (Baker): reconquest of Myth Drannor (1374-5)
Twilight War (Kemp): war in Sembia (1375)
Abolethic Sovereignty (Cordell): where did those aboleths come from? (1385-1479)
Heavy Realmslore (if you want lots of realmslore data, here are your books)
Cormyr: A Novel (+ trilogy) (Grubb and Greenwood)
Evermeet: Island of the Elves (Cunningham)
Blackstaff + Blackstaff Tower (4e) (Schend)
Elminster: Making of a Mage (+ ongoing series) (Greenwood)
Drow-related (these give a great sense of how to be a drow in the Realms)
Homeland (+ Dark Elf trilogy) (Salvatore)
Daughter of the Drow (+ series) (Cunningham)
Dissolution (+ War of the Spider Queen Series) (Various)
Lady Penitent series (Smedman)
4e FR specific (these show the transition pretty well, and are essential reading if you're running a 4e FR game in mind of the novels)
Swordmage (Baker)
Ed Presents Waterdeep series (Various)
Unbroken Chain (Johnson)
Cheers
*counters Erik's recommendation of Lady Penitent with a non-recommendation of it* 
As for specific reasons as to why, you can pick up what happened via spoilers and really not miss anything. The parts where its well-written and not incredibly stupid are quite enjoyable, I will note, but they are far overshadowed by the incredible, constant stupidity and hypocrisy of most of the characters and the events themselves, as what's probably six novels worth of events are stuffed into three, to accomplish something that really didn't need to be accomplished and bring about something that apparently even the designers have forgotten about which has Never Been Mentioned Again.
...Hello, run-on sentence from hell.
I will say this: the Lady Penitent series spins out the War of the Spider Queen, so you might want to give that a shot first.
I can't say anything about its quality, as I haven't actually read it.
Cheers
As a reader, I really loved the Lady Penitent series. Although I didn't like a few of the changes that came about in the game world as a result of the series (as a DM/player), I thought Lady Penitent was one of the best written series in the Realms that I've ever read.
The flavor of the drow was point-on, as good as Elaine Cunningham's work, and it served to give a better picture of the male side of drow society. The separation of Lolth/Eilistraee's sava game (very metaphorical) from the actions of their mortal servants was really excellent.
I don't recall any "incredible, constant stupidity and hypocrisy" being "obvious" in the series as suggested by Nai. Rather, I think that may have more to do with his dislike of the ultimate results of the novel and their impact on the game world. Which I understand, completely.
---
I would also highly recommend any Realms novels by Elaine Cunningham, those all provide interesting and in-depth portrayals of the drow and surface elves, as well as being very well written and enjoyable novels.
I'd also agree on these being excellent:
- R.A. Salvatore
- Paul Kemp
- Ed Greenwood
- Eric Scott de Bie
- Richard Baker
Circle of Skulls also gets an honorable mention, though I can't recall the author's name offhand. And it, like deBie's books and some of Baker's books, is set in the 4E era.
I'd put in a list of novels/authors I didn't or don't like, as there are a few books that I'd like to rip to shreds, but eh... some people would get mad and say I just hate all things 4E. Which is sorta true.
Circle of Skulls also gets an honorable mention, though I can't recall the author's name offhand.
James P. Davis.
Cheers
Cavatina. Dear gods, Cavatina. As sexist and haughty as a drow matron and in her own way as nasty. The scene in the Abyss where she randomly decides for herself that she's been 'redeemed' stands out as one of the worst scenes in a bad series of books. Indeed, most of the Elistraeeans either constantly carry the idiot ball or are hypocrites to what their faith supposedly preaches. Qilue in particular comes off stupid and arrogant in regards to certain things.
Ironically enough, the *males*, despite Smedman's inability to get which half the face a Vhaeraunite's mask covers, make it out much better and are the actual sympathetic characters. Karas' rant to another character near the beginning of Storm of the Dead is one of the few passages in the books that actually inspire sympathy, and he gets one of the few truly badass moments when he calls the Eilistraeeans on their hypocrisy publicly and sticks it to Cavatina at the same time. Q'arlynd's scenes are always great and he's the character with the most actual development over the series.
But the few good points do not make up for the reprehensible quality of the rest of the novels. In fact, it actually isn't what happened to *Vhaeraun* that angered me most in the novels, but rather Selvetarm. It was so utterly badly done, so disgustingly forced, and such a pathetic waste of a god with a ton of dramatic potential(I guess Eilistraee just gave up on *everything*, apparently. *eyeroll*) that I actually threw the book across the room when I got to that part. It's the framing story, it should be remembered, that isn't what's actually going on. It's symbolic. So it simply makes no sense, period.
Previous lore is twisted and/or ignored, everyone acts massively out of character(Why are the VHAERAUNITES the sympathetic ones?), new things are badly retconned in and the end result is the utter destruction of everything I enjoyed about the drow and their gods previously, leaving them one-dimensional, monotheistic and apparently EVAL FOREVER.
No, seriously, read some spoilers on the series, momentarily seethe, and then be glad you didn't read the novels. These are books where half the time it feels like the AUTHOR hates what's going on, which probably leads to a lot of the inconsistency and vagueness that leaves several things up to interpretation.
(Can you tell I have strong feelings on this subject?)
the archfey Vhaeraun and Eilistraee compel you
Cavatina. Dear gods,
Well, since this is definitely a tangent, I'll spoilerize this in case people don't want to see my reply. ;)
Cavatina. As sexist and haughty as a drow matron and in her own way as nasty. The scene in the Abyss where she randomly decides for herself that she's been 'redeemed' stands out as one of the worst scenes in a bad series of books. Indeed, most of the Elistraeeans either constantly carry the idiot ball or are hypocrites to what their faith supposedly preaches. Qilue in particular comes off stupid and arrogant in regards to certain things.
Wow, again... it's funny... I read this in a completely different way.
Of course Cavatina is initially sexist and haughty, she's a female drow. These female Eilistraeeans have been locked in a culture where males have been suppressed for millenia, and you think just because a few drow start to accept Eilistraee they're automatically going to change over to modern American values? Sexism is still a giant part of many cultures that are "good" in real life, so it stands to reason that although they'd shed their ties to Lolth and "evil" in general, they'd still retain many of the other qualities that make them a part of drow culture.
I thought this was one of the most realistic parts of the series. It's feminism turned upside down, where males are being liberated. For the first time in their lives, drow males are allowed to "talk back" to females without threat of death. That's a major step, and if you remember Cavatina slowly started changing and accepting them.
Ironically enough, the *males*, despite Smedman's inability to get which half the face a Vhaeraunite's mask covers, make it out much better and are the actual sympathetic characters. Karas' rant to another character near the beginning of Storm of the Dead is one of the few passages in the books that actually inspire sympathy, and he gets one of the few truly badass moments when he calls the Eilistraeeans on their hypocrisy publicly and sticks it to Cavatina at the same time. Q'arlynd's scenes are always great and he's the character with the most actual development over the series.
I didn't get that the males were all symathetic characters. After all, they are/were assassins. Q'arlynd didn't always have "great" scenes, either: he was manipulative in the extreme, didn't truly care about anyone except himself, was coldly pragmatic at all times, and he flip-flopped on worshipping Eilistraee throughout the series. At times, when he approached being good and actually caring, he was at his best and also closest to Eilistraee. But he was also true to drow culture, with millenia of Lolth-enforced paranoia, pragmatism, and self-serving agendas holding him back from fully exploring the ways of Eilistraee.
But the few good points do not make up for the reprehensible quality of the rest of the novels. In fact, it actually isn't what happened to *Vhaeraun* that angered me most in the novels, but rather Selvetarm. It was so utterly badly done, so disgustingly forced, and such a pathetic waste of a god with a ton of dramatic potential(I guess Eilistraee just gave up on *everything*, apparently. *eyeroll*) that I actually threw the book across the room when I got to that part. It's the framing story, it should be remembered, that isn't what's actually going on. It's symbolic. So it simply makes no sense, period.
I'm not sure I understand your issue with Selvetarm. From my perspective, I never saw Selvetarm as having much potential at all. He was fully corrupted and turned into a toady by Lolth, and that was pretty much the end of his story. There was no sense in any prior novel by any other author that he even remotely had a mind of his own. Maybe he did before he was corrupted, but quite honestly I saw it as a mercy killing. Because he was beyond hope, the kindest thing the Eilistraeeans could have done was kill him.
Previous lore is twisted and/or ignored, everyone acts massively out of character(Why are the VHAERAUNITES the sympathetic ones?), new things are badly retconned in and the end result is the utter destruction of everything I enjoyed about the drow and their gods previously, leaving them one-dimensional, monotheistic and apparently EVAL FOREVER.
I'm not sure where you're coming from with "lore twisting" and "everyone acting out of character" as I didn't have that sense at all.
These are drow, they are chaotic and pragmatic above all else, regardless of whether or not they have chosen to worship a good deity. Even Eilistraee was going through big changes in the series, transforming herself (and presumably her "dogma") along the way. She was learning about herself just as much as her faithful were learning about themselves and what it meant to be good rather than evil.
Also, the remaining "evil" drow with Lolth aren't necessarily monotheistic. There's still Ghaunadaur and other deities around, she's just the major force. And this "evil forevar" is never stated anywhere. How did Drizzt become good, or Liriel for that matter? There is still the potential for any drow to become good, although their culture makes it very unlikely. As far as "retcons" go, I think I'd agree with others (though I wouldn't have always done so) that this is more an addition and an evolution to their story than a retcon. And finally, Smedman left enough unseen and unsaid in her final novel that (as YOU have even argued) that Eilistraee could still be alive in some form. Even perhaps Vhaeraun, though I'd argue that point.
The one thing that I'd absolutely agree with you about, although you haven't restated it here, is the whole thing with erasing Kiaransalee's name from everyone's mind... everyone on the planet, apparently... and how that shouldn't have "killed" the goddess. It was probably an element that was insisted upon by the over-riding design team, though, as Smedman hasn't ever used such a bad plot device in any of her novels before this. This was indeed pretty goofy and bizarre.
No, seriously, read some spoilers on the series, momentarily seethe, and then be glad you didn't read the novels. These are books where half the time it feels like the AUTHOR hates what's going on, which probably leads to a lot of the inconsistency and vagueness that leaves several things up to interpretation.(Can you tell I have strong feelings on this subject?)
Yes, you definitely have strong feelings on this, and that's all fine. But it doesn't mean you're right in claiming that the novels are bad. ;)
The best novels leave some things open for questions, and I think Smedman did enjoy what she was writing. But she also had the cleverness to throw a bone to fans (if not several). After all, you don't SEE Vhaeraun or Eilistraee actually die, do you? ;)
And for gaming in the Realms, open and unanswered questions are excellent fodder for campaign hooks.
all else are mamby pambies
. . . realizes that might be hopeless . . .
. . . flees!
Cheers
*ties Erik up and cackles*
Last word on the subject, srsly:
Your interpretations and mine are vastly different, Jorunhast. I actually found Q'arlynds attitudes completely believable since he's fresh from the underdark at the start, has good reason to waffle and be on the fence, and is not a hardcore uber member of the faith or a priest. I don't expect immediate true devotion from someone in his position, especially not someone who sees Eilistraee's faith as the matriarchal continuation of the status quo it is. And just because someone is evil or borderline evil doesn't mean they can't be a sympathetic character with emotions. Karas starts waaay on the edge of things and heartbroken, does some awesome stuff and eventually comes to an acceptance of things. And I felt kind of sorry for Valdar in the end. (Although the way that scene is written you can interpret it exactly the other way and feel sorry for Karas instead. ;) )
I really didn't get much in the way of growth or believability from Cavatina. Perhaps it's that I expect more from a priestess of a good god than that. Perhaps it's that the most recent passage from the novels I read was re-reading the scene in which Karas pwns her.
Which ties into why I think Eilistraee was actually terrible for the drow in the long run. Little attempt to actually integrate back into elven society. Little attempt at even trying for gender equality - Vhaeraun wasn't much better, but while the rare male priests of Eilistraee had to perform temporary and repeated sex changes, the rare Masked Traitors serving Vhaeraun are a respected and favored class of followers not expected to grow a wang in order to be able to properly appreciate their god. (Vhaeraun is evil, to be sure, and doing it wrong, but in some ways his church is actually healthier and better for the drow than Eilistraee's)
I'll disagree on Selvetarm, but that's an outlook difference.
And yes, the thing with Kiaransalee is ridiculous. Especially the wholesale slaughter of her priestesses afterwards. Zuh?
Most of Ghaunadaur's drow worshippers seem to have been wiped out and he isn't really in the drow business anymore in 4E from what we know, so he would seem to be mostly out of the picture as well. Leaving us with, yes, Lolth, as the only drow goddess. Anyone not wishing to worship Lolth must go elsewhere, as there aren't any other drow gods. The Seldarine, human gods, whatever, sure. Drow? No.
And the eval forevar thing comes from the ridiculous declaration by one of Corellon's pet Solars at the end of AotL that the remaining drow are apparently beyond redemption. (Suck that, Drizzt!) And because of the aforementioned ridiculous retcon. 'zong we r allz tainted by demonz and damned!' Except you know tieflings are MORE 'tainted by demons' and not even remotely all chaotic evil forever. Plus by the time of the novels, there AREN'T going to be any pure Miyeritari left. It's just not going to have happened, the gene pool isn't going to be that big. Even with slower elven birthrates, in the amount of time it's been since the descent, you're quickly going to reach the point where everyone alive has the same great-whatever-grandparents.
I like to think that Wendonai is lying like a mofo(He is a demon after all) and that Felawhatever is full of it and misinterpreting things.
But I can see heavy 'this must happen, make it happen somehow' throughout the novels, yes.
And yes, I still cling cheerfully to my 'Vhaeraun is still alive' theory. Also Selvetarm and Eilistraee since the Crescent Blade is corrupted and certainly failed to destroy Cavatina, and Kiaransalee isn't going to stay dead any more than Orcus did. :D
But, the last question of the thread: can I read and enjoy the 4E novels without reading the old ones?
The Aboletic Soverignty series is a bit less independent, it has ties to some old novels, notably Stardeep, but they can be read on their own. I am currently reading Key of Stars.
Btw, I assume the people fuming over the Lady Penitent don't play LFR, but if they do, they may want to take a look at CORE2-12 The Sschindylryn Heresy, which I am writing atm with Ryan Cannon, and which will come out (with a bit of luck) end this year.
it means Living Forgotten Realms, although Lost Forgotten Realms works too.
Cheers
Thanks again.
You can absolutely start reading right now. When the Realms transitioned to 4th edition it jumped ahead 100 years, which provided a great opportunity for new people to come in without knowing the history. (I think this was the point.)
If I were you, I would read through the Campaign Guide and the Players Guide. There is a new Neverwinter book coming out soon that will also tie into the Realms. It goes along with R.A. Salvatore's latest novel (just released) and a new video game on the horizon.
Anyway, if you're looking to get into the novel side of it, I would just start with stuff from the past year. Once you decide which area of the Realms you want to base your quests in, you may want to go back and read specific novels/authors that focus on those areas. Remember, the Realms is a HUGE campaign setting and it would be almost impossible to learn all the history.
My advice - Focus on what's new (post 4th edition) and focus on a specific area you want to run your quests. Once you pick an area/theme for your quests, I bet the community can point out some specific novels that will really help you out.
Levels 1-2 were spent in Loudwater and its environs, as presented in the FRCG.
Levels 2-4 took place in the Scepter Tower of Spellgard adventure.
Levels 5-7 have seen the PCs move to Waterdeep to do adventures there (the Ed Greenwood presents series have been instrumental to my campaign)
And that's where I am now! They have some more Waterdeep stuff to do, then I'm not sure where the PCs will head next (possibly Cormyr?). I plan for them to be more mobile when they get into paragon tier.
Cheers
They have some more Waterdeep stuff to do, then I'm not sure where the PCs will head next (possibly Cormyr?).
How about Silverymoon and the High Forest? Get them some fey allies so they can then make the leap for Myth Drannor at paragon?
Which, to get back on topic, also features in a few novels: the Last Mythal series deals with the High Forest, the Dalelands, and Myth Drannor. Some of the information in those novels can be used to power ideas even in 4th ed Realms (the background on Coronal Ilsevele Miritar, for instance).
But I read a lot of stuff lately. I recently finished the Erevis Cale trilogy, which is well written though probably less interesting from a lore point of view than the Twilightwar series, unless you plan to make trips to the Shadowfell or Skullport (not sure what happend to Skullport in 4th ed Realms, I think it was destroyed or abandoned?).
Gomez
A lot of people (including myself) came into the Realms by reading Salvatore's Drizzt novels.
The good thing about focusing on a particular character or author is that you'll get to focus on a particular part or parts of the world as a secondary benefit. If you read the Drizzt books, you'll find out a lot about the drow, Menzoberranzan, Icewind Dale, Luskan, and the Silver Marches, areas that are mainly in the northwest corner of the Realms.
It's always interesting to me to focus on one place like that and then later go read another author who is writing about a completely different location. it's like being in a whole new world. That's the great thing about the Realms - it's a large setting with something for everyone.
The most recent Elminster book was just released in hardcover - Elminster Must Die.
Also, Realms of Valor, Realms of Infamy, Realms of the Dragons, etc, books are full of short stories throughout the realms and a good introduction. For a really fun romp across the realms and a quick preview, read Volo's Once Around the Realms.
I have been wearing down my boot-soles traveling the realms for over 20 years. If you have the time, and it is an elvish commitment, start with Darkwalker on Moonshae, read the trilogy, move on to the Icewind Dale Trilogy, and continue from there in order from the first book of a trilogy's published date. During this decade, they went soap opera and plot-lines from one trilogy often hinted at another.
There's a site with a list of Realms books by publish date, but I can't find the link right now.
And forget Elminster! Doddering old fool hiding in his tower, cuddled up between the Witch Queen of Aglorand and his ambiguously gay scribe Lhaeo, crying "Mystra's dead..." I've never gotten a straight answer from him in my life. (Love ya, Greenwood.)
...and his ambiguously gay scribe Lhaeo, crying "Mystra's dead..."
Hey now! Lhaeo might be a little lispy and swishy (he is a Tethyrian noble, after all), but with the help of Zaranda Star he reclaimed his throne.
King Haedrak III (i.e. Lhaeo) took Zaranda as his queen, and they had children. Triplets, I believe.
Being "ambiguously gay" while hiding in exile and disguised as Lhaeo, well... it probably enhanced the disguise.
Or maybe he and El really did have a "special relationship"... *cough* When the tower closes its door at night and the lock-bolt slides in place, all sorts of things can happen. It's the Realms, where sexuality is a good deal more blurry than in the real world.
...and his ambiguously gay scribe Lhaeo, crying "Mystra's dead..."
Hey now! Lhaeo might be a little lispy and swishy (he is a Tethyrian noble, after all), but with the help of Zaranda Star he reclaimed his throne.
King Haedrak III (i.e. Lhaeo) took Zaranda as his queen, and they had children. Triplets, I believe.
Being "ambiguously gay" while hiding in exile and disguised as Lhaeo, well... it probably enhanced the disguise.
Or maybe he and El really did have a "special relationship"... *cough* When the tower closes its door at night and the lock-bolt slides in place, all sorts of things can happen. It's the Realms, where sexuality is a good deal more blurry than in the real world.
Just stating my observations last time I was in Shadowdale. So that prissy twerp got to be a king in Darromar, huh? And here I thought I couldn't get a good blade in Riatavin 'cuase of the dirty Amn's.