Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dinadan77 Dec 16, 2010 12:27:08	Hi, === pre-notice ===   This message is more destined to the Wizards of the Coast team members.   If you're reading this and would be interested in such a tool, please let me know by replying a small "I'd like to have such a tool" or something.  That would cheer me up. === the need ===   I've always been looking for a way to display interactive map of role-playing games I play.  I found out about the Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas [1] (that is discontinued).  That's exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. === the tool I'd like to do ===   In fact, I'd like to go deeper than that.  I'm a programmer specialized in WebMapping [2] applications and would like to work on a WebMapping application with OSGeo [3] tool to display the map of the realms on the internet.  I own the old 90s campaing setting and the 3.0 edition books as well, so liscences shouldn't be a problem.   My main issue is the hard work it would take to digitalize and input all the data.  I know what I would do and it would work, but it would take tremendous efforts.  Since the Atlas already seemed to have a lot, I wonder if it could be possible to have access to the data in a way I could import them in ShapeFile [4] vector format or PostGIS [5].   All assembled, the tool would pretty much look like Google Maps, with tools to calculate travel distances, togglable layers, query tools to get info from point of interests such as cities, ruins, etc. === is that possible ? ===   Please, I'd like to know if what I'm thinking of is possible.  I'm serious about this project but could not dream of moving on without any data to display. Kind regards, Alexandre == references === [1] www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQJ2R4Fi_bM [2] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_mapping [3] www.osgeo.org/ [4] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapefile [5] postgis.refractions.net/
#2 pruano Dec 16, 2010 17:14:11	While it would be cool, i doubt they (WotC) will allow it. Just because you own the books, does not give you the right to distribute its content (and that includes the maps). The Interactive Atlas was discontinued because Pro Fantasy Software (makers of Campaign Cartographer, from where the Atlas was based) lost the rights to use the WotC IP.
#3 dinadan77 Dec 16, 2010 18:30:32	Hi, That may be true, but what about this wiki [1] ?  Is has parts of the maps I'm talking about and contents from books too.  Is this authorized ? I don't think I would be able to achieve the precision of what Pro Fantasy did, but at least I could try to replicate a similar map than those in the wiki but with more basic map interactions (zoom, pan, box zoom) and with useful tools, measures and scale bars. Also, it wouldn't be my intention to make money out of it.  I would use Open Source softwares and freely distribute the map as a tool for all GMs and players from a web server. About the right to display the map contents, I'd like to make a comparison.  Let's take vNES [2] for example.  I heard that they once had problems with games being shared on-line because they didn't own them.  They re-started over and began sharing only the games that they owned.  That way, Nintendo didn't bother them anymore.  This situation pretty much looks like mine in a way (I think). What do you think ?  I would also be glad to hear comments from the WotC staff.  Do you know if this post is appropriate for reaching them ? Thanks a lot for your reply, Alexandre [1] forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Ge... [2] www.virtualnes.com/
#4 pruano Dec 17, 2010 5:32:37	Hi, That may be true, but what about this wiki [1] ?  Is has parts of the maps I'm talking about and contents from books too. Is this authorized ? This may fall in the fair use clause, but yes, its a grey matter.   I don't think I would be able to achieve the precision of what Pro Fantasy did, but at least I could try to replicate a similar map than those in the wiki but with more basic map interactions (zoom, pan, box zoom) and with useful tools, measures and scale bars. If you plan to do your own maps instead of using the ones on Atlas outright, you are probably less liable, but im no attorney, nor WotC staff. Also, it wouldn't be my intention to make money out of it.  I would use Open Source softwares and freely distribute the map as a tool for all GMs and players from a web server. This does not matter; its a copyright infringement on the content that WotC has on. About the right to display the map contents, I'd like to make a comparison.  Let's take vNES [2] for example.  I heard that they once had problems with games being shared on-line because they didn't own them.  They re-started over and began sharing only the games that they owned.  That way, Nintendo didn't bother them anymore.  This situation pretty much looks like mine in a way (I think). Im unsure if by "they owned" means homebrewed or physicaly owned. If the first, there is indead no problem, if the latter, there is, because physically owning them does not give them a right to distribute them (this point is clear in all the EULAs). What do you think ?  I would also be glad to hear comments from the WotC staff.  Do you know if this post is appropriate for reaching them ? I doubt this is the right forum for it; there are others, i believe in the Wizards COMmunity group, that may be more appropriate.
#5 dinadan77 Dec 17, 2010 7:15:27	Pruano,   Thanks again for you time and you reply.  I'll follow your tips and post to the Wizards COMmunity group, then. Kind regards, Alexandre
#6 Jorunhast Dec 17, 2010 9:02:41	If you want to use WotC's intellectual property, you need to write WotC directly.  None of the forums are appropriate for formal business communication. WotC Contact Info HERE. As to "fair use" in copyrighted material (and everything WotC has published is copyrighted), that really only applies to an individual's ability to do something like photocopy a character sheet.  A project like what you're suggesting would not fall under "fair use" because it involves repackaging their material in a new form that they have no control over, into something that could negatively impact sales of the original product. It doesn't matter that you don't want to make money from it personally, it'd still be breaking copyright law without WotC's permission. It doesn't matter that Wiki has this material posted there (i.e. maps, info, etc.).  Wiki is technically breaking copyright law, and if WotC told them to remove something then by law they'd have to take it down.  It hasn't been so far, but that doesn't mean WotC or Hasbro won't ask them to stop in the future.  Why does Wiki "get away" with it now?  Well, most companies like having Wikis available because it tends to enhance sales.  But if they ever felt that Wiki was putting up too much material or negatively impacting their sales, then their lawyers would shut it down. Bottom line:  get permission directly from WotC, in writing.  Trust nothing that is said by random people on the fan forums, because anyone can say anything behind a semi-anonymous login name.  Write the company directly and ask for permission, detailing everything you would like to accomplish.  WotC (particularly when they were TSR years ago) has shut down people and websites for much smaller infractions.
#7 dinadan77 Dec 17, 2010 9:14:54	Jorunhast,   Thanks a lot for giving me the WotC Contact info.  I'll write to them right away.   Your comments are hard to accept and give me little hope, but they are very realistic indeed.  Plus, I agree with you.  It's just a shame that things have to be like that, you know.  "Money makes the world go round" and free spirits like myself don't fit in that world, I guess...  In the end, I could end up making my application for myself only and that would be a waste of time.   Thanks again for your precious comments.  Most appreciated. Regards, Alexandre
#8 Jorunhast Dec 17, 2010 10:43:11	Jorunhast,   Thanks a lot for giving me the WotC Contact info.  I'll write to them right away.   Your comments are hard to accept and give me little hope, but they are very realistic indeed.  Plus, I agree with you.  It's just a shame that things have to be like that, you know.  "Money makes the world go round" and free spirits like myself don't fit in that world, I guess...  In the end, I could end up making my application for myself only and that would be a waste of time.   Thanks again for your precious comments.  Most appreciated. Regards, Alexandre Sorry for the realism, just trying to help.  Copyright laws can be pretty harsh.  I do like the concept and general idea.  I wish you luck in contacting WotC for permission.  It would be extremely useful, but WotC is highly focused on making anything they license into something commercially viable.  You never know, they may agree if your proposal is really tight.  Definitely write them and ask.
#9 dinadan77 Dec 17, 2010 12:52:27	Jorunhast,   I wrote them.  As soon as I get any reply, I'll let you know. Thanks again, Alexandre