Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 constavros Nov 13, 2008 0:51:52	So, I've been wondering for a while, now: What exactly makes people like him live for such a bloody long time? Was he some variety of Chosen? Was it magic (probably)? Or did certain people from the time of ancient empires like Imaskar and Netheril just live longer? If it was magic, I'd really like to know, because it looks like the campaign I'm running might take a very long time to complete....
#2 aldareth Nov 13, 2008 1:02:47	Ioalum for example is a lich, as are the most really long lived spellcasters ( larloch, aumvor, szass tam ) have the support of their deity or a lucky bastards like mirt and durnham who found potions of longevity in the undermountain ( i think halaster was ****** of :D )
#3 constavros Nov 13, 2008 1:04:48	Except for the fact that he lived for a full 2944 years before becoming a lich and there are no references that I can find (and believe me, I did a lot of searching) that mentions him having any special favor with a deity. He wasn't the only one to pull this off, either. By the way, what's the source for these "potions of longevity?" I haven't heard of them in a very long time (in fact, I think the first and only time since now was when I started playing the PC version of Baldur's Gate when it came out), and have been curious as to where to find info on them. Plus, I don't think Undermountain was around back then, and if it was, no one probably knew about it.
#4 aldareth Nov 13, 2008 1:20:16	well i answer you that question allready...potions of longevity ;) or the 10th lvl spell of these days ( 1 ed , 2ed i think ) Ioalums longevity ( is that the name not sure on this) that the speel has his name didnt mean that other arcanists/wizards dont had a similar spell for their use...
#5 Stigger Nov 13, 2008 1:21:22	Ioulaum's Longevity spell would be the most likely answer... pretty sure it got treated in 3e somewhere, but as far as I know, Volo's Guide to the North for 2e was one of the first places to mention it. Basically, it killed a whole bunch of mages (and presumably psionics as well) and added one year of life for each one killed, at least going by the 2e version of it. Tabra of Bargewright used it on an illithid colony of around 2,000 to gain a whole lot of time to her lifespan, and she was only his apprentice... I recall 3e contradicting that a bit where it was mentioned, maybe LEoF, but that's the story I prefer, so... ;)
#6 constavros Nov 13, 2008 1:44:15	Ah yes, that's another thing I'm having trouble with: The higher-than-9th level magic. I have Netheril: Empire of Magic, and the information it provides on said magic is, well, somewhat lacking. It mentions that there was no damage cap for spells (fireball cast by a level 40 mage does 40d6 damage, etc.), but little else. Either that, or I missed something. Were there any special rules for these spells, or did they follow the same convention?
#7 constavros Nov 13, 2008 1:56:01	Good lord, I must have become some sort of idiot between the last time I browsed through LEoF and when I made this thread, because I just found the stats for Ioulaum's Longevity on page 43.
#8 aldareth Nov 13, 2008 1:56:12	well after all you can safely state that are some ways to prolong a wizards life ( or someones rich & mighty enough) , ways that are lost trough time ;)
#9 constavros Nov 13, 2008 2:13:04	well after all you can safely state that are some ways to prolong a wizards life ( or someones rich & mighty enough) , ways that are lost trough time ;) Well, seeing as how my campaign takes place 671 years before Ioulaum was born, one could say the means are lost before time. To hell with it, though; the Imaskari were screwin' around with powerful magic before Netheril was even a smudge on the map, so I can make something work, I suppose.
#10 aldareth Nov 13, 2008 2:19:01	well the imaskari could prevent the gods from entering the crystal sphere..how likely is it that they didnt have a spell to prolong life? ;)
#11 Stigger Nov 13, 2008 2:53:29	Halaster is proof enough that they did indeed have the means without resorting to undeath.
#12 constavros Nov 13, 2008 4:18:15	True, but he had been in stasis for millenia, and it may be possible that extremely prolonged temporal stasis can induce a sort of "age lag" effect.
#13 aldareth Nov 13, 2008 4:25:03	where do you have that info from? halaster was to my knowledge never in stasis...elmister was some time in stasis but not halaster... maybe thats why elminster was not that crazy like halaster was :D
#14 constavros Nov 13, 2008 4:32:17	According to various sources, including The Grand History of the Realms, Halaster, then known as Hilather, escaped the destruction of Imaskar by entering a temporal stasis vault beneath the present-day Giant's Belt Mountains in -2488 DR and didn't emerge until 128 DR.
#15 old_sage Nov 13, 2008 7:08:50	We know next to nothing about Ioulaum. Even the material that provides us with the 'best information' is the Netheril boxed set -- with all its drawbacks and failings. I'm sure there is much, much more to learn about Ioulaum. For all you know, he was the Mystryl equivalent of a Chosen of Mystra. [:P] And to make things more interesting, he might not have known that he was. Maybe just like Karsus didn't know...
#16 keveras Nov 13, 2008 13:14:53	Good lord, I must have become some sort of idiot between the last time I browsed through LEoF and when I made this thread, because I just found the stats for Ioulaum's Longevity on page 43. Jep, though note that, afaik, the Spellcraft DC isn't calculated correctly, since even Ioulaum wouldn't be able to cast an epic spell with a DC 152.
#17 Stigger Nov 13, 2008 13:23:16	Don't recall that version of the spell being too impressive really... needs some serious reworking if you ask me, especially where mitigating factors are concerned.
#18 keveras Nov 13, 2008 13:37:33	...since even Ioulaum wouldn't be able to cast an epic spell with a DC 152. Forget that, 'cause actually he would be able to cast it: +70 base (41+26+3) +8 synergy +30 Arcanus Fundare +30 ring of spellcraft +3 skill focus +10 epic skill focus + ~20 int So I guess being an ugly brain guy is quite advantageous ;)
#19 constavros Nov 13, 2008 15:01:08	Jep, though note that, afaik, the Spellcraft DC isn't calculated correctly, since even Ioulaum wouldn't be able to cast an epic spell with a DC 152. Yes, but take into account that before Karsus' Folly, he wouldn't have needed to make a Spellcraft check since there technically weren't any epic spells before then; they were all level 10 and above, and according to N:EoM and LEoF, it was, in fact, a 10th-level spell. PS: What's this Arcanus Fundare thing? Never heard of it before....
#20 bonzai Nov 13, 2008 15:49:13	There is also a spell in Book of Vile Darkness and Waterdeep that lets you suck the life energies out of some one to take off a few years. Non-epic as well.
#21 constavros Nov 13, 2008 15:54:37	There is also a spell in Book of Vile Darkness and Waterdeep that lets you suck the life energies out of some one to take off a few years. Non-epic as well. Steal Life. When cast on the night of a full moon, it takes one week off the caster's age for every ability point it drains. Now, what I'm wondering about, though, is how many days there are in a week. Is it seven or is ten because of how the Calendar of Harptos is set up? And are there four weeks in a month or three? I think I must be looking in the wrong places, because I can't seem to find an answer.
#22 old_sage Nov 13, 2008 17:55:17	Now, what I'm wondering about, though, is how many days there are in a week. Is it seven or is ten because of how the Calendar of Harptos is set up? And are there four weeks in a month or three? I think I must be looking in the wrong places, because I can't seem to find an answer. Most references we have make it pretty clear that the "Tenday" is the Realmsian interpretation of a standard Torilian week. Months are subdivided into three ten-day periods. I'd recommend you read the "Tendays vs. Weeks" section on pg. 291 of the FRCS.
#23 Stigger Nov 13, 2008 18:10:47	PS: What's this Arcanus Fundare thing? Never heard of it before.... Comes from having read the Nether Scrolls if I recall correctly, not a likely prospect for most casters out there, but I believe Ioulaum was one of the few noted to have read most, if not all, of them.
#24 the_shaman Nov 13, 2008 19:01:05	I think it was mentioned in a book or two that mages could sometimes live longer than normal humans. Perhaps it was the longevity potions, perhaps something different... Does it matter? Imo a level 13+ mage can mess up reality enough to stave off aging for a while. BTW, when exactly did Ioulaum become a lich? It might be that whatever other methods he used failed after the death of Mystryl.
#25 markustay63 Nov 13, 2008 20:24:45	I think ALL people of the Realms have longer lifespans - it probably had something to do with the pervasivness of magic as provided by the Weave, which means people could be living more 'Earth-like' lifespans now in 4e. I get that idea, BTW, because a lot of OLD people are described as hail and hearty warriors and what-not, and there was at least one female in her fifites that was with child in canon - something nigh-on impossible in medieval times. It seems adult people of the Realms are about 10-15 years 'younger' in appearance and health then RW. Then again, it could just be because their days are shorter then ours (which would create the illusion that people live longer). That way, someone from our planet who went to live in the Realms would think he was living much better/older, when the reality is that he would be living the same amount but the years he's counting are smaller.
#26 Stigger Nov 14, 2008 1:01:41	I put it down to clerical magic healing all those stupid little things that medication would miss since it tends to be rather specific in what it heals, whereas clerical magic tends to heal it all, so to speak. Get a healing spell, your life extends a bit since it might handle some unnoticed ailment that would have eventually become more serious.
#27 keveras Nov 14, 2008 10:28:37	Yes, but take into account that before Karsus' Folly, he wouldn't have needed to make a Spellcraft check since there technically weren't any epic spells before then; they were all level 10 and above, and according to N:EoM and LEoF, it was, in fact, a 10th-level spell. Yeah, but his last apprentice Tabra (isn't that her name?) was also known to have cast the epic version.
#28 vladhslavh Nov 14, 2008 14:54:48	It seems adult people of the Realms are about 10-15 years 'younger' in appearance and health then RW. Then again, it could just be because their days are shorter then ours (which would create the illusion that people live longer). That way, someone from our planet who went to live in the Realms would think he was living much better/older, when the reality is that he would be living the same amount but the years he's counting are smaller. Are you sure? My copy of FRCS (3ed one) stated Torilian days as 24 hours long, then again maybe the copy I own got it wrong translated.
#29 constavros Nov 14, 2008 19:58:59	Plus, why would so many spells and magic items, among other things, have casting time or durations of 24 hours if that's not how many there are in a day?
#30 BadCatMan Nov 14, 2008 20:36:17	Your copy of the FRCS is quite correct. Faerun's days are 24 hours long, and I'm pretty sure it's referring to our hours. :P Time measurement is much fuzzier, as they rarely have accurate timepieces. Years are also 365 days long, so Abeir-Torilian years = Earth years. They just have longer weeks and uniform length months. I find I prefer the Faerunian calender over our own, it's much neater, even if the weeks are too long and it seem like they don't have weekends. That's a good point about the healing magic, Stigger. All those little cuts, bruises, wrinkles, etc. It would also lead to everyone being younger looking, better looking. After all, all the female heroes are beautiful, all the men handsome.
#31 Stigger Nov 16, 2008 4:12:59	Strangely that came from reading something from a book, damned if I can remember which offhand, that mentioned that almost, if not every, person who dies of old age will inevitably have cancer of some variety, even if it wasn't the primary cause of death. Lead to other thoughts as well really, but that's way off topic... :D
#32 constavros Nov 16, 2008 5:13:54	Years are also 365 days long, so Abeir-Torilian years = Earth years. Nope. Toril years are 360 days long. After all, all the female heroes are beautiful, all the men handsome. Mirt.
#33 old_sage Nov 16, 2008 6:43:45	Nope. Toril years are 360 days long. The year consists of 365 days: 12 months of exactly 30 days each [due to the single moon and its followers], plus 5 days that fall between months.
#34 Stigger Nov 16, 2008 10:58:36	Mirt. Mirt didn't have to be handsome, he had money... instant sex appeal thing with that. Same goes for power... for both genders really. ;) :D
#35 creyzi4zb12 Nov 17, 2008 3:32:38	So..umm...what does an elder brain look like? DOes it look like a mindflayer humanoid with tentacles on it's head? Or a huge brain?
#36 BadCatMan Nov 17, 2008 4:21:57	Like a giant brain, really. With tentacles. Show
#37 glitter Nov 17, 2008 5:47:46	Halaster is proof enough that they did indeed have the means without resorting to undeath. Halaster doesn't age at Undermountain only. While out of his domain he is aging at an amazing rate, something like 1 year per hour, it was written in "Halaster's Higharvestide" IIRC.
#38 Stigger Nov 17, 2008 8:16:54	And? Still a way to retard aging without resorting to undeath. Certainly there are limits, but that's besides the point. ;)
#39 _jarlaxle_ Nov 18, 2008 4:45:44	Wasn't it said that he is only insame while he is in undermontain and seems to be totaly clear when he leaves it? I think in this case i would prefer the undead thing :D
#40 Stigger Nov 18, 2008 7:17:31	No wizard is sane considering the crap they play with from the word go... ;)
#41 brimstone_blackheart_dup Nov 19, 2008 13:37:45	Well now that Halster is dead it doesn't really matter now so...
#42 Stigger Nov 20, 2008 0:45:28	But the point remains that one can achieve a degree of longevity without having to resort to undeath. And sanity among mages is so overrated... :D
#43 creyzi4zb12 Nov 20, 2008 6:10:19	Like a giant brain, really. With tentacles. Show
#44 keveras Nov 20, 2008 13:57:07	cool!! So why is he considered a lich when he isn't undead yet (he has flesh, as in a brain)\ A lich is undead. An elder brain lich is an undead in the same fashion as a human lich is one.
#45 lord_karsus Nov 20, 2008 14:05:43	So why is he considered a lich when he isn't undead yet (he has flesh, as in a brain)\ -That's a picture of a regular ol' Elder Brain, not of Ioulaum, specifically.
#46 constavros Nov 20, 2008 15:54:38	The year consists of 365 days: 12 months of exactly 30 days each [due to the single moon and its followers], plus 5 days that fall between months. Weird. I've looked in a lot of places, and they pretty much all said there are 360 days. Man, some people, including some actual writers for D&D, need to get their crap together. I just checked through FRCS, and it confirmed this. I think I may be using more outdated material than I had previously thought....
#47 _jarlaxle_ Nov 20, 2008 15:59:35	The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting says that most people in Faerun follow the calendar of Harptos which has 365 days a year, 30 days a month (devided in 3 tendays) and 5 special days which fall betwenn the months.
#48 old_sage Nov 20, 2008 17:33:31	Weird. I've looked in a lot of places, and they pretty much all said there are 360 days. Man, some people, including some actual writers for D&D, need to get their crap together. I just checked through FRCS, and it confirmed this. I think I may be using more outdated material than I had previously thought.... Which places have you looked at? Each edition of the Campaign Setting has included the "365 days" reference.
#49 weisthor_dup Nov 20, 2008 17:35:55	The Sage is correct. First post BTW!
#50 BadCatMan Nov 20, 2008 17:54:35	The source of confusion may be that there are 360 days in the months, plus the five special days.
#51 lord_karsus Nov 20, 2008 18:49:19	-The "special days", I also always thought was weird. In the sense that they don't fall within any months, and are just "special days". Weird.
#52 old_sage Nov 20, 2008 19:05:30	The source of confusion may be that there are 360 days in the months, plus the five special days. Perhaps. Though, Constavros's direct reference to "360 days" could suggest otherwise.
#53 Stigger Nov 21, 2008 0:26:08	Always liked those 'special days' myself... lent a feel of a certain amount of unity across Realms culture, despite the many differences between the various lands. While I know other calenders were used, Harptos always appealed the most to me. Oh, and welcome Weisthor.
#54 lord_karsus Nov 24, 2008 11:19:07	Always liked those 'special days' myself... lent a feel of a certain amount of unity across Realms culture, despite the many differences between the various lands. While I know other calenders were used, Harptos always appealed the most to me. -That's partially why I found them weird (being continent-wide celebrations), and then, of course, just because they fall "in-between" months.
#55 Stigger Nov 24, 2008 15:03:14	Didn't really see them as continent wide celebrations per se, more like Samhain or Beltaine celebrations that were mostly local in how they were celebrated, though not really unified in any real sense beyond falling on the same day. A good way to differentiate the Realms from a calender point of view from earthen calenders.
#56 lord_karsus Nov 26, 2008 13:48:18	-Various cultures that use the Calendar of Harptos (arguably, all major nations) would have these dates on their calendars, without necessarily reasons to celebrate.
#57 Stigger Nov 26, 2008 14:25:50	Well, considering most of those major nations rose from Chondathan culture or were deeply influenced by it, be it directly or indirectly, it does make a certain amount of sense.