Is there mention of dopplegangers/changelings in the realms in 4e, if so, where?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

prototype00

Jun 02, 2010 5:29:42
I'm currently designing a changeling worshipper of Amaunator and I was wondering if there was any WotC source or article on the status of changelings/dopplegangers in the realms, a dragon article maybe?

Cheers,

prototype00
#2

18DELTA

Jun 02, 2010 6:52:50
The Unseen in the City of Spendors: Waterdeep book from 3E. It was a group of Dopplegangers that was trying to infiltrate the Lords of Waterdeep. A changling could be a descendent from that group.

I think the FRPG had some info on Changelings in the Realms...
#3

lionlemur

Jun 02, 2010 8:31:02
I know I've come across a few references to dopplegangers in the Realms, though other than Waterdeep (as mentioned above) I can't recall exactly where.

Most dopplegangers (and changelings) would probably tend towards large cities, where their actions would be easier to hide.  In a small town, everyone usually knows everybody else's business, and dead bodies tend to get noticed.  You could probably get away with giving a changeling a background in any large city or town. 

#4

Stigger

Jun 02, 2010 8:51:20
There was that Doppleganger in Silverymoon that served Alustriel, with rumors of them producing a child together.  Plenty of room to say those two were the source of more heroic changelings to be unleashed upon the Realms.  Beyond that, there were plenty of dopplegangers mentioned throughout the Volo's guides, amid other sources, that could lead to changelings being introduced into the Realms.
#5

lirdolin

Jun 02, 2010 9:00:38
The Unseen in the City of Spendors: Waterdeep book from 3E. It was a group of Dopplegangers that was trying to infiltrate the Lords of Waterdeep. A changling could be a descendent from that group.

I think the FRPG had some info on Changelings in the Realms...



Really, you shouldn't confuse 4ed players with references to old 3E sources, as 4ed was created to get rid of all that useless Lore-baggage and give the Realms a fresh... Wink
But as we have already touched the superior 3ed books: The Unseen actually managed to infiltrate the Lords of Waterdeep as well as the Red Sashes in the end. But what might be more interesting for 'future 4ed' changelings is that they also owned the 'Hanging Lantern' festhall where the courtesans where dopplegangers (for the original revelation you have to look up AD&D 'Volo's Guide to Waterdeep').

I believe FRPG only had the shifters (of the Eberronic races). But I believe there was a Realms-Dragon article that had the warforged in it, so maybe the changelings can be found there too?

#6

prototype00

Jun 02, 2010 9:10:55
Well, waterdeep made it out of the spellplague more or less intact so thats not a bad place to start. I was looking for a realmslore article on it, but if there isn't one I'll improvise.

prototype00
#7

lirdolin

Jun 02, 2010 9:22:05
And it even sports a know Temple of Amaunator:
Spires of the Morning

(Temple of Amaunator (formerly Lathander), Julthon Street, Castle Ward)
Pink marbel courtyard walls.

Although the lawful and 'loving the predictable' Amaunator is an 'interesting' choice for a changeling.
#8

prototype00

Jun 02, 2010 9:42:10
And it even sports a know Temple of Amaunator:
Spires of the Morning

(Temple of Amaunator (formerly Lathander), Julthon Street, Castle Ward)
Pink marbel courtyard walls.

Although the lawful and 'loving the predictable' Amaunator is an 'interesting' choice for a changeling.



Well, his backstory was that he was left as a baby in a basket with a human baby. The priests thought they were twins until they found out his true nature. Then they raised him with his "brother".

prototype00

#9

18DELTA

Jun 02, 2010 11:17:41

So your character could actually be a 'Noble' of Waterdeep.

Maybe your family had a member that was a 'hidden Lord' of Waterdeep in the past. Said person was replaced by your Grandfather(Doppleganger, member of the Unseen). Two or three generations later, you were born as a Changeling.

Your family freaked, so one of your parents dropped you of at the local temple. Now you are trying to find your heritage...

#10

prototype00

Jun 02, 2010 14:20:40

So your character could actually be a 'Noble' of Waterdeep.

Maybe your family had a member that was a 'hidden Lord' of Waterdeep in the past. Said person was replaced by your Grandfather(Doppleganger, member of the Unseen). Two or three generations later, you were born as a Changeling.

Your family freaked, so one of your parents dropped you of at the local temple. Now you are trying to find your heritage...




Thats not a bad origin. Not bad at all.

prototype00
#11

Kno

Jun 02, 2010 16:43:14
Doppelgangers originate from the amphibian creator race in the Realms.
#12

fmalchemist

Jun 19, 2011 4:27:24
doppelgangers are a lot of places, i hear there r some in baldurs gate
#13

Stigger

Jun 24, 2011 9:01:11
Though I sadly don't recall which at the moment, I was thumbing through some 2e sourcebooks a few days ago and saw an explicit reference to a possible offspring of dopplegangers who wasn't actually a doppleganger themselves... Might have been The Seven Sisters, or possibly one of the Volo's Guides, probably the one to Cormyr (Marsember section perhaps?).  At any rate, I'm certain of the reference, just not where it was at the moment.  Stupid brain isn't working as well as I'd like this early in the morning...
#14

eriksdb

Jun 28, 2011 20:10:15
Sorry in advance, but there's a doppelganger in my next FR novel, Shadowbane (due out in September). Not that it's all that helpful just at the moment.

Like I said, sorry! :D

Cheers
#15

omegaphallic

Jul 09, 2011 22:02:15
In 4e changeling's are the same thing as doppelgangers.

For more info on Doppelganger history in the realms see Brain James Nadezhda post in the Nadezhda thread. Doppelganger's aren't just creatored by the Batrachi. they are an offshoot of Batrachi. A doppelganger also ruled an empire of minatuars, before he got fused to what I guess would be a primordial in 4e. Also Sharess, one of the Gnomish Gods, and Mask are known at least in 2e/3e to manifest thier will via Doppelgangers. The Primordial Bazram Gorag was a Batrachi Lord and he rules the sphere of chaos and has priests called the lords of change, so most likely doppelgangers would be common amoung his faithful.

Oh in previous additions they had a subtype of doppelganger called a greater doppelganger who stole a persons entire identity and all thier powers and stuff by eatting
thier brains. In fact in many FR novels doppelgangers eat victims before assuming thier identity.

As for Doppelganger Courtisans, how does any other Courtisan compete with shapeshifters? They can look like every girl or guy you've ever wanted and they get a +2 to charisma, Dex or intelligence, insight and bluff, never have to watch thier weight or do thier make up, or get zits, and that's before the contortianist feat. I assume doppelgangers copy vocal cords as well so they all have beautiful voices. Humans and elves could never compete without being wizards.
#16

omegaphallic

Jul 10, 2011 18:36:45
Why are you sorry Erik? I look forward to reading it as I love anything about the creator races and thier desendants (aside from humans, never understood why humans were in the same category as the Batrachi and the other creator races. Kenku, Doppelgangers are the closest to the cooler creator races amoung playable PCs (Kenku only in the LFR).
#17

sfdragon

Jul 10, 2011 21:37:53
would it be the same chick from downshadow or a different skin changing  mutant
#18

omegaphallic

Jul 12, 2011 16:34:24
With a doppelganger would you ever really know? Mowahahaha.
#19

pruano

Jul 13, 2011 13:28:34
Sorry in advance, but there's a doppelganger in my next FR novel, Shadowbane (due out in September). Not that it's all that helpful just at the moment.



Is this the one that takes place in Westgate?
#20

pruano

Jul 13, 2011 13:35:06
Sorry in advance, but there's a doppelganger in my next FR novel, Shadowbane (due out in September). Not that it's all that helpful just at the moment.



Is this the one that takes place in Westgate?



Never mind, from the description i see its not.

Is that one still on track?

#21

Jorunhast

Jul 14, 2011 14:09:12
Sorry in advance, but there's a doppelganger in my next FR novel, Shadowbane (due out in September). Not that it's all that helpful just at the moment.

Like I said, sorry! :D

Cheers


Yer mom's a doppleganger.     *snicker*
 
Couldn't resist... just kidding. 


#22

Andrekan

Jul 16, 2011 1:37:58
There was a Doppleganger Noble in Hillsfar too...
#23

Stigger

Jul 19, 2011 15:11:24
Head of the mage's guildy thingy more than a noble really...