JudgeDookie;17123510 wrote:
Basically, a mega-RSE involving the World of Greyhawk, getting torn apart by 'cosmic forces' after the Greyhawk Wars (this was mostly figured out pre-3e GH), and FR and DL get involved (the three spheres are all connected on a mystic level, and form a special 'triad' in the cosmic scheme of things).
Anyhow, this allowed me too take parts of GH and DL that I liked and incorporate them into my Realms, and also 'undo' the ToT all at the same time. The Dark Three and Mystryl are all brought back, and Kelemvor, Midnight, and Cyric are all demoted to demi-powers.
Since then, most of the other canon events still happened (like Shade returning), but because of that mega-RSE each event had slightly different effects then they did in the official lore.
Basically, I can take all the stuff WotC gives us, and apply my own spin on things with that.
as for my own version of history, I (and two other DM's) changed it so much, don't know where to start, and some ancient events have undetermined dates
For people who don't use my convoluted FR, the Scarlet Brothehood accessory is an excellent example of what the Zhents should have been like (minus, perhaps, all the 'racial purity' crap - just replace it with 'Zhents Forever!' and your good).
I've placed the Valley of the Mage in the Dales, along with the village of Homlett (Temple of Elemental Evil, which I subbed-out for Moander's Temple). I have used various other bits and pieces from the setting (like Animus), along with a bunch of the modules.
I've also borrowed Kender (who even the Halflings find annoying), and Minotaurs from Dragonlance. Not Draconians, though...
I mean... who in their right mind would want Dragon-People in FR?
I mean... who in their right mind would want Dragon-People in FR?
Bahamut.
Campaign in general: Swashbuckling E-6 during the Age of Sail. Nation states have risen to replace the old fractured kingdoms of old.
Wizards of High Sorcery: The Wizards of High Sorcery were founded to protect what magic was left and protect themselves against an enraged humanity (wizards will be tied into the Time of Troubles somehow, and they carry much of the blame.) They will be similar to the Dragonlance WoHS, but there are 8 orders instead of 3 (one for each school of magic)
Solamnic Knights: Vinas Solamnus was born in Faerun in the years after the Time of Troubles, not on Krynn. The Solamnic Knights were founded to defend order irregardless of national borders.
Abominations: With the loss of magic, many magical creatures perished. Some few discovered they could survive by devouring other magical creatures. They are similar to the abominations in Birthright.
The Dalelands: Have been united and are the first democracy. Similar to the United States in the 1790s.
Rasheman: They have advanced and are now culturally similar to Tsarist Russia.
Thay: I was going to have them remain a power, but then I thought about a land full of enraged berserkers would do to a nation of wizards who have been using magic to wage war on them for generations if those wizards suddenly lost all their power. Thay is no more. Though the mention of the Scarlet Brotherhood makes me want to rethink that.
Waterdeep: Waterdeep is the capitol of an as yet unnamed nation.
Calimshan: Calimshan is now part of Zakhara. I didn't move it, it was always part of Zakhara.
Elves: The retreat is complete. No elves remain on the continent with the exception of a few wandering elves. One item that did survive the disjunction is a portal to a fey realm on Evermeet. Most of the elves who remain are on Evermeet.
Dwarves: Dwarven decline has continued. There are still scattered dwarven city states and they aren't an uncommon site in human lands.
As I said, there's still a ton of work to be done.
Goblins: Goblins have found a place for themselves at the edges of civilization doing work no "civilized" race would do.
Nothing after 1374 DR ever happened. We can now progress with a much better version of history.
Agree. Though I don't like a few other things that happened. Myth Drannor's fall and Alea's death, for example.
Campaign in general: Swashbuckling E-6 during the Age of Sail. Nation states have risen to replace the old fractured kingdoms of old.
Interesting - I'd love to play in that. Maybe not the E-6 part, but the Swashbuckling/Age-of-Sail part is right up my alley.
Wizards of High Sorcery: The Wizards of High Sorcery were founded to protect what magic was left and protect themselves against an enraged humanity (wizards will be tied into the Time of Troubles somehow, and they carry much of the blame.) They will be similar to the Dragonlance WoHS, but there are 8 orders instead of 3 (one for each school of magic).
Again, interesting. I've gone something in that direction myself, combining the old 2e product School of Wizardry with some Harry-Potterness sprinkled in.
Solamnic Knights: Vinas Solamnus was born in Faerun in the years after the Time of Troubles, not on Krynn. The Solamnic Knights were founded to defend order irregardless of national borders.
Nice - I don't know enough about DL, but this sounds like something I can use.
Abominations: With the loss of magic, many magical creatures perished. Some few discovered they could survive by devouring other magical creatures. They are similar to the abominations in Birthright.
As much as I dislike Birthright (not the setting - just its premise), this sounds intriguiing. I'm not sure if I'd go that route, but it IS interesting none-the-less.
The Dalelands: Have been united and are the first democracy. Similar to the United States in the 1790s.
The only problem I have with this is Myth Drannor - in reality, one needs to die for the other to thrive. You cannot have two soveriegn nations that share the same physical space.
Then again, this IS fantasy...
I don't personally like that Myth Drannor came back (nor Shade, for that matter); I'm a big fan of 'dead empires' staying dead. For a nation, I'd use the name 'Daleland' at first, which would change to Dalandia by 1479 DR.
Rasheman: They have advanced and are now culturally similar to Tsarist Russia.
I've gone a similar way, but farther east, with a Slavic-style nation forming around the lake of Mists region.
Thay: I was going to have them remain a power, but then I thought about a land full of enraged berserkers would do to a nation of wizards who have been using magic to wage war on them for generations if those wizards suddenly lost all their power. Thay is no more. Though the mention of the Scarlet Brotherhood makes me want to rethink that.
Glad I was able to 'return the favor'. In your version, I'd have them originally as the Thayan 'secret police', who were once under the command of the wizards, but now that they have saved their butts (and moved them 'elsewhere'), the roles are reversed, and it is the Brotherhood who is in control of the wizards (much as it is in the SB GH accessory).
That way, you can almost use the Scarlet Brotherhood accessory as-is, with little in the way of modding (change 'Suel' to 'Mulan' and your good).
Waterdeep: Waterdeep is the capitol of an as yet unnamed nation.
Deepwater?
Calimshan: Calimshan is now part of Zakhara. I didn't move it, it was always part of Zakhara.
Once again, I did something similar - "great minds think alike" and all that sort of crap. ;)
I actually 'smallerized' Zakhara and attached it to the end of the Calimshan peninsula, making Calimshan a 'Gateway to the Arabian Lands', as it were (and making Steven Schend's 'ottoman Turkey' take for Calimshan make even more sense).
Gaming is so much better when you can change the maps. :P
Elves: The retreat is complete. No elves remain on the continent with the exception of a few wandering elves. One item that did survive the disjunction is a portal to a fey realm on Evermeet. Most of the elves who remain are on Evermeet.
Will you marry me?
Just kidding... I don't roll that way...
Still, thats VERY similar to my take. I'm an old-school 'Tolkienesque' DM, and I believe Elves should be 'special', not living under every nook and cranny. Wood Elves I keep in the deeper Forests, but just a few (except maybe for one sizable Kingdom, perhaps in the Wealdath). 'High Elves' - those of the Gray/Gold/Silver/Star persuasions - are from Evermeet, and RARELY encountered on the mainland (usually just as emissaries). Evereska can stay, but as Ed envisioned it, not as a bunch of stupid novels portrayed it. Tiny, hidden enclave of high Elves, who's main purpose was to help their brethren escape to Evermeet (and now gaurd those 'mystical pathways').
Dwarves: Dwarven decline has continued. There are still scattered dwarven city states and they aren't an uncommon site in human lands.
Also much to my way of thinking.
Goblins: Goblins have found a place for themselves at the edges of civilization doing work no "civilized" race would do.
Geez... it sounds like you and I could co-DM a world.
great stuff - very useful.
Thanks for posting it.
Interesting - I'd love to play in that. Maybe not the E-6 part, but the Swashbuckling/Age-of-Sail part is right up my alley.
To each their own. I like E-6 because it stays within the power level I like. I actually begin to lose interest in campaigns once they hit level 10 or so. I do love to buckle my swash though.
The only problem I have with this is Myth Drannor - in reality, one needs to die for the other to thrive. You cannot have two soveriegn nations that share the same physical space.
Myth Drannor was never reclaimed by the elves, because I reset to 1357 and kicked the Elven Retreat into high gear. Shade also never came to be.
I've gone a similar way, but farther east, with a Slavic-style nation forming around the lake of Mists region.
I always try to find a place for Slavic cultures in my campaign.
Glad I was able to 'return the favor'. In your version, I'd have them originally as the Thayan 'secret police', who were once under the command of the wizards, but now that they have saved their butts (and moved them 'elsewhere'), the roles are reversed, and it is the Brotherhood who is in control of the wizards (much as it is in the SB GH accessory).
Sounds kind of like the mamluks. Yeah, the Red Wizards would definitely need the Brotherhood more than the reverse. The Wizards of High Sorcery would love to wipe them out.
For me, The Weave is another name for Magic. As Art, is the way to cast magic. So, the sudden death of Mystra, yet maybe with some modification, will bring the Spellplague... and everything.
But... the magic system would revert to its TRUE NETHERIL. That is, with Spellpoints as per the Netheril Box !! I will only keep the schools intact not make it simpler to use. Might bring back Mystryl some years after the spellplague (maybe after one of is Avatar could cast Karsus Folly to become back the God of Magic or Cyric would have gain the Magic domain but restrain it, so to have an advantage over the others but then got imprisoned and couldn't use any of its powers...). Don't know yet. I will shrink the pantheon to make it universally racial. Meaning Selune is human name for Y deity elvish or X dwarvish: ex: Tempus might be the dwarven god Clanggeddin, but its the same god, only a different view.
The dragonborn might be more like Draconians.
I will stay 3.5 or maybe 3.75...
I may set it in an 100 years to keep most of the new lore, but with a different magic system.
I might even create a Magic feat for each race. So an Elven wizard might choose to cast Elven magic or Human magic. Dwarves would use a rune magic, etc. A Wizard could learn every aspect of magic, which would grant him different bonus - powers when casting using a different method.
I would keep Returned Abeir, but using a different magic based on Primordial energies.
Katashaka would be a Xendrik like continent.
That's around it !
I use the Great Conjunction, which was an artifical construct of mine based on Ravenloft's Grand Conjunction.
Basically, a mega-RSE involving the World of Greyhawk, getting torn apart by 'cosmic forces' after the Greyhawk Wars (this was mostly figured out pre-3e GH), and FR and DL get involved (the three spheres are all connected on a mystic level, and form a special 'triad' in the cosmic scheme of things).
Anyhow, this allowed me too take parts of GH and DL that I liked and incorporate them into my Realms, and also 'undo' the ToT all at the same time. The Dark Three and Mystryl are all brought back, and Kelemvor, Midnight, and Cyric are all demoted to demi-powers.
Since then, most of the other canon events still happened (like Shade returning), but because of that mega-RSE each event had slightly different effects then they did in the official lore.
Basically, I can take all the stuff WotC gives us, and apply my own spin on things with that.
Thats cool.
Here's the next best thing. Post your own version of the realms history. Please remember to say at which point your history splits away from canon.
For me, your title pretty much says it all. However, I don't know that there's a definitive point in time where my Realms deviates from the "official" Realms--after all, there are plenty of things before 1385 DR (and, for that matter, 1375 DR...) that never happened in my Realms, either. I just take what I like, leave what I don't like, and that's that.
And I agree with above.
18DELTA (Chosen of Cyric) :P
For many years, we never actually addressed the Time of Troubles. At most people knew of this as a time of wild magic. We started with 2nd edition, so we didn't worry about conveting from 1st. There was a greater "Avatar Crisis", a sort of secret war that happened behind the scenes but it was never common knowledge.
It wasn't until 3e that we finally decided to play out the "Avatar Crisis". The games felt very much like super-hero slugfests, but that's what was expected, so they were a success.
I've played in many Realms games over the years. My homebrew Realms have been around since at least the FR Adventures hardcover, starting with 2nd edition and into 3rd (with a mostly new group). I haven't played the 4e Realms (don't plan to); still playing the Realms in 3.5 though (a few guys stuck around ;)).
I'd like to explore the Realms through the 4e rules but the Spellplague has effectively shattered (not shaken, as in RSE) the setting for me. I'd enjoy seeing the Realms as if "it never happened" (I might do it myself, eventually). For now, I'll settle for continuing to play the Realms using 3.5 rules.
My homebrew Realms diverg from the published Realms more and more each day now. I'm gonna miss the published Realms of old.
In my version, I hooked up the Scarlet Brotherhood with the Red Wizards of Thay.. I have a whole 'Crimson' theme going on. :D
I got them in the Shining South, kinda like the **** conquest of dravidians, but it's a long story
I'll try post the whole homebrew alternate timeline of FR
and I don't see Rashemen at all as Tsarist Russia, what's similar, the weather
not a fan of the decline of demihumans races
interesting idea about abominations from Birthright, never bothered looking there
and I don't see Rashemen at all as Tsarist Russia, what's similar, the weather
Rashemen is culturally similar to the Rus, who eventually developed into Tsarist Russia.
Rashemen is culturally similar to the Rus, who eventually developed into Tsarist Russia.
Dont speak it out loud. You never know who listens. Perhaps one day there will be a "Tsar"-thingy going on. ;)
I write stories of the Realms, and thus create characters to write about , using the guides.
My Eve of Savras, has led him back to Halruaa in MUCH greater Standing.
So now Halruaa has a "Trinity" Azuth, Mystra, and Savras.
Shar is making inroads, but the Eyes of Savras are on guard against her.
On Nimbral, I created an Illusionist who is on a mission from the "dead" Goddess Leira. But with a name like Leirah Mistshadow, she just may be the goddess reborn or just a person using her name.
Dont speak it out loud. You never know who listens. Perhaps one day there will be a "Tsar"-thingy going on. ;)
LOL... maybe we'll get a power-mad Star Elf who takes over te region, and becomes the 'Star Tsar'! :D
Thats a really obscure DC comics reference, BTW. ;)
Rashemen is culturally similar to the Rus, who eventually developed into Tsarist Russia.
the similarity: the Rus came from Ruathym (I think, or round there), the Rus in Kiev Russia (not Tzarist) were viking traders, but in Kiev vikings took over, in Rashemen nothing happened, they were probably assimilated
mythology - vodyanoi, the World Tree (Nidhogg and Veles, tough Veles isn't evil, and there's no thunder god to oppose Nidhogg), no nature elementals
after that everything is different:
the names
religion - orthodox christianity vs. Bhalla ...
berserkers, not in Tsarist Russia
the government - absolute emperor (hereditary position) who oppresses the nobles vs. puppet king that can be replaced any time by the witches
free peasants vs. feudal ''almost slaves'' peasants
history - one recent battle against ''mongols'' vs. century of war and paying tributes
Thay vs. nobody (maybe Turks)
Vreymoni, ''place magic'' - no eqiuvalents
the similarity: the Rus came from Ruathym (I think, or round there), the Rus in Kiev Russia (not Tzarist) were viking traders, but in Kiev vikings took over, in Rashemen nothing happened, they were probably assimilated
Cultural similarities =/= the same history.
mythology - vodyanoi, the World Tree (Nidhogg and Veles, tough Veles isn't evil, and there's no thunder god to oppose Nidhogg), no nature elementals
The Rus were Christianized fairly early in their history. Last I checked Cormyr wasn't Christian, but that doesn't mean it follows a late middle ages cultural model.
the names
That's meaningless. Mulhorand and Egypt have completely different names for everything outside of mythology.
religion - orthodox christianity vs. Bhalla ...
As was pointed out, nobody's Christian.
berserkers, not in Tsarist Russia
Seeing as how the ruling elite of the early Rus were vikings, I don't see this as too much of a stretch.
the government - absolute emperor (hereditary position) who oppresses the nobles vs. puppet king that can be replaced any time by the witches
I certainly wouldn't equate the Grand Prince of Kiev with being an emporer. He was a feudal king who's power only extended as far as his sword.
free peasants vs. feudal ''almost slaves'' peasants
The same holds true throughout the Realms. Peasants in virtually any campaign world are univerally better off than peasants in real Earth history.
history - one recent battle against ''mongols'' vs. century of war and paying tributes
Fighting mongols vs. fighting mongols. ok.
Thay vs. nobody (maybe Turks)
So you're saying the Rus never had to fight an ongoing war against a real world nation of wizards?
Vreymoni, ''place magic'' - no eqiuvalents
What's your point?
The Forgotten Realms is full of nations that are culturally similar but not the same as real world lands. Similar =/= the same.
The Rus were Christianized fairly early in their history. Last I checked Cormyr wasn't Christian, but that doesn't mean it follows a late middle ages cultural model.
and it doesn't mean Rashemen should
That's meaningless. Mulhorand and Egypt have completely different names for everything outside of mythology.
people make real world analogies when they see the names first, in Rashemen
the names don't sound Slavic, and in Mulhorand the names aren't completely different, they are just a little different, e.g. Horustep or Menesankh
As was pointed out, nobody's Christian.
again, Tsarist Russia - christianity, it has a huge influence in the medieval societies, almost determines them. Rashemen doesn't have it, therefore Rashemen is substantially different then the Tsarist Russia.
Seeing as how the ruling elite of the early Rus were vikings, I don't see this as too much of a stretch.
the ruling elite weren't fighting around half-naked, scarred
I certainly wouldn't equate the Grand Prince of Kiev with being an emporer. He was a feudal king who's power only extended as far as his sword.
I wasn't talking about Kiev, your analogy was Tsarist Russia, the word Tsar means emperor, out of Caesar, they called Moscow the third Rome
The same holds true throughout the Realms. Peasants in virtually any campaign world are univerally better off than peasants in real Earth history.
in medieval history there were lots of types of peasants, some were free, and certainly in better position than in e.g. Calimshan
Fighting mongols vs. fighting mongols. ok.
the difference is one war in 1500 year history vs. a century of war which changes the country significantly, making Rashemen and Russia even more different
So you're saying the Rus never had to fight an ongoing war against a real world nation of wizards?
yes, and their wars (Tsarist, 15th century and after) weren't defensive, but expansive, Rashemen doesn't attack Thesk, or sends colonists into the Hordelands
What's your point?
The Forgotten Realms is full of nations that are culturally similar but not the same as real world lands. Similar =/= the same.
unfortunately that's true, just not for Rashemen imo
but the Iron Lord becoming Ivan Grozni tyoe ruler, who turns on the witches is a nice idea
but I don't like many realms ruled by tyrants, it's boring imo, the witches are unique
I wasn't talking about Kiev, your analogy was Tsarist Russia, the word Tsar means emperor, out of Caesar, they called Moscow the third Rome
That may be the crux of the problem. I'm equating Rasheman with the Kievan Rus, not Tsarist Russia. The Rus eventually developed into Tsarist Russia. By the same extension the Rashemi who are culturally similar to the Rus could very easily develop into a nation that is culturally similar to the the Grand Duchy of Moscow.
but the Iron Lord becoming Ivan Grozni tyoe ruler, who turns on the witches is a nice idea
but I don't like many realms ruled by tyrants, it's boring imo, the witches are unique
I don't plan on ditching the witches, I like them too much. The leader will still be referred to as the Huhrong, and the witches will still be a power. The Iron Lord will be more than a puppet though, and the Rashemi in general will be far more advanced without completely abandoning thier berserker past.
Kiev Russia, particularly the mythology is interesting
e.g. for including Kostchtchie's story in Rashemen history, then the domovoi, but I have them in the Great Glacier where is the realm of winter fey
also leshiis, don't like the le shay stats
and vilas as more enigmatic elves
žar-ptice (firebirds) vs. Thayans and gamayuns as an asura related planar race
tough they did change
Impiltur is Principalities of Glantri today, opposed to the Red Wizards
the fall of Narfell and Raumathar never happened
That's an interesting idea. I think maybe I'll leave Netheril as a dark and decadent fallen empire clinging to the last vestiges of their culture in Anauroch.
blackening of wild elves never happened, long live Ed's albino drow
You mean the ancient Miyeritari and Illythiiri and the Descent of the Drow?
Well, I like the drow as they are/(were in 4ed). Albino drow are good though.
Time of Troubles
fall of Zhengyi
the crusade for Myth Drannor
Deep Imaskar
Elminster and Mystra thing
Mameluks in Calimshan
and I did run Al-Quadim + Netheril theme, with flying cities, cloud giants, genies
You mean the ancient Miyeritari and Illythiiri and the Descent of the Drow?
Well, I like the drow as they are/(were in 4ed). Albino drow are good though.
no that they were brown-skinned
its not a perfect idea. but it let me bring many of the things lost in the fourth edition back that i lost such as eilestrae, vaerhum...
and incorperate new ideas that i heard were nixxed before i could even implement them. such as the raven queen in the realms. my ruling as the dm is that the shadow fell is the shadowfell. and the raven queen exists as a separate entity then kelemvor. with three theories running around her head, that she may be the product of creation when killranshi (i know im butchering names, please forgive me.) and mystra were reborn from a combination of both dead goddesses and a atrofal ( whatever you call those still born gods brom drew
) her original story unchanged, or as a suprise ally to kelemvor.its not for everybody like i said but , there ya go lol.