*my personal idea is going with the angle that Jergal is an ancient spellweaver who wants to turn back time somehow to help reestablish the multispheric empire the spellweavers used to have. To turn back time, the secret of an universal language must be uncovered, so an epic timechanging ritual can be completed. The names of every being could hold the last secrets of the meta-language so Jergal steadily waits till the puzzle piece come by.
What language would it be written in, Celestial?
-Maybe every language. A DM did that to a character, once. The letters were "unintelligible", but he perceived them as every language he knew.
Would Jergal write down a persons true name as well?
-That would be very likely. So, if a person is a True Name Magic person (Don't remember what the class is called), that might be a very nice place to get True Names.
I love true names and but the Truenamer class felt obsolete, as I see truenames more of an enhanced form of spellcasting. Perhaps I can multiclass some priest of Jergal, the Doomscriveners with the truenamer class and have them pen regional copies of Jergals Deadbooks.
I love true names and but the Truenamer class felt obsolete, as I see truenames more of an enhanced form of spellcasting. Perhaps I can multiclass some priest of Jergal, the Doomscriveners with the truenamer class and have them pen regional copies of Jergals Deadbooks.
-I don't like the concept of True Names as a form of magic. It's only come up once in my own games, but basically, I handle it as Dominate Person, when someone uses your True Name, and then commands you to do something.
-Plenty could: The Bleak Cabal, the Doomguard, the Dustmen...
Ah the Dustmen, how I miss the old discussions with Grey about the "perfect" god of Death/the Dead....
In my Realms, Jergal came into being the first time something in Realmspace died. Jergal is linked to death and the dead, in much the same way as Mystra is linked to the Weave. The Book of the Dead has the ability to resurrect any dead being - both mortal and divine, simply by removing their name from the book, and likewise by adding a name any mortal or divine being would die instantly. Of course, killing someone isn't exactly -that- simple. It requires their true name to be written in the book.
Despite the fact another deity holds portfolios linked directly to his existence Jergal has the ability to retake them at any time, at will.
Like in cannon, Jergal gave away much of his power to Bane, Myrkul and Bhaal, although my version of Jergal did so for different reasons than simple "boredom". Long before the Dead Three entered into Jergal's domain he foresaw the multiple paths to their death. Through this, Jergal foresaw the Time of Troubles, and the events splintering off from it in terms of the dead and death.
He gave up his power in order to gain more. Jergal in my Realm's is a Mastermind. He has nothing against setting a plot in motion even though it may take millennia to come to fruition. Jergal is virtually the only deity assured to survive to the end of time, when - at the very end of everything - he'll scribe his own name in the Book of the Dead.
He has a secret alliance with Shar, as he's the only deity that shares her desire to see the end of the world. In terms of the Spellplague, if I decide to go with the 4E Realms, Jergal will have also played a hand in that as well. There are very few RSE that Jergal does not affect indirectly, or has not foreseen as possibilities centuries before (this would include the death of Mystra).
He is a manipulator, a schemer, a plotter, but also a guardian and protector. His existence is necessary for the balance in Realmspace. Just as there is good and evil, law and chaos, there is also life and death, creation and destruction and beginnings and endings. Jergal is an ending - the Lord of the End of Everything, and that is his primary role in the Realms.
In my Realms, Jergal came into being the first time something in Realmspace died. Jergal is linked to death and the dead, in much the same way as Mystra is linked to the Weave.
-Piecing together the "clues" that we have, Jergal is inherent linked to the sun, believe it or not, with the tripartite higher sun entity and whatnot. Personally speaking, I do not like the concept at all, and prefer your take.
Yeah, I know. I tend to ignore that as I think it's silly. Although I am willing to lend credence to the fact that only two "faces" of the sun can be displayed at any one time. Thus, you could only have the portfolios of the Dawn and Highsun or the portfolios of Highsun and Dusk held by any deity at one time. Thus, Jergal's shedding of the dusk portfolio to Myrkul was necessary.
Basically, in my Realm's the Dead Three were little more than mortal pawns that Jergal gave his power to in order to facilitate events that would take place centuries in the future. Jergal is an alien deity, different from the other gods in outlook and state of mind. Just as you have the primordial elemental deities, who are largely alien in their mindset, you have Jergal who is similarly alien.
Then, on the opposite end of the spectrum you have the other deities who are more like mortals in their outlook, primarily because they are ascended mortals. While they have the power of gods, their outlook is largely on a mortal timescale spanning a few decades at most as it is difficult for them to perceive millennia into the future. They still have simple mortal ambitions and emotions that drive them.
Thus I tend to separate the beings that were 'born as gods' (or 'pure deities') from those that are 'ascended mortals' (or 'impure deities'). The way Mystra, Cyric and Bane act and think is very different from the way Shar, Jergal, Selune and Kossuth think and act.
To support this idea I point to Mystra and the memories of her predecessors. Just as the Mystra before her the memories and knowledge held by Mystryl were alien to them both. It is something they find difficult to understand - the mind is not like their own - and I say that this is because Mystryl was a primordial being 'born a deity' rather than being an 'ascended mortal'.
Meh.
I think the third part of that entity is known to Jergal, and is able to hold on that portfolio just to allow that third entity to take over during the Dusk period of a Sun-age.
Linked to the tripartiate sun because Jergal once held the Dusk portfolio?
Meh.
-Yes. Apparently, according to the new lore, the holders of the Dawn, High Sun and Dust portfolio, they are all the same "higher entity". It just uses two "faces" at a time.
-Yes. Apparently, according to the new lore, the holders of the Dawn, High Sun and Dust portfolio, they are all the same "higher entity". It just uses two "faces" at a time.
I assure you, I am my own person!
About Jergal - Myself and another one of the DMs in my group have decided to concoct a rather large meta-plot using Jergal as the key element. Due do the recent events that our epic stories have ended on, there has been a shift of power in the planes. With Myrkul being resurrected and one of his former followers also being resurrected, the two fill the void left by Jergal, Moander, and the five or so of Myrkul's portfolio's that were "dropped" in post ToT.
Also, mages across fearun have ascended to demigod status thanks to Mystra wishing to defend herself having already stopped an assassination attempt by Cyric and Shar, thus reducing her own power but placing in power demipowers of the remaining schools of magic (Halaster being the Conjuration due to his "Death" in the Expedition game).
With the recent ascensions of divine powers, Jergal and his priests seem to vanish altogether and only are mentioned in whispers. The highest priests of Savras are granted a prophecy fortelling the children of the major ascensions in the past as well as the current ones calling for their blood to fuel Jergal's ascension to overgod. And thus, meta plot similar to the Elder Evils game.
BTW - I like your idea too, Maldread. I've always seen Jergal as a "time" entity. The only other divine being in Realmspace that can compare on a mental scheme to him would be the Elven deity Lebolas who seems to exist outside of time. Thus we used him as our villain since he would foresee such an extended ascension of so many mortals and the leaving of their blood or "footprints" to be gathered and pooled to fuel his attack on Ao and the Crystal Sphere altogether. Though Shar would have similar goals, her followers and aspects of her would not wish to be upstaged in ending the world, while her Loss aspect would probably appreciate it if not cooperate.
I assure you, I am my own person!
-The introduction of a Myrkul with the 'Dusk' portfolio is one of the things that throws a wrench in that entire tripartite sun entity notion.
-All of that said, I never much understood all of the..."attraction" of Jergal. He's interesting, to a degree, and most of that simply stems from the fact that he is such an enigma, but all the adventure plots about him being an evil mastermind and all of that...Eh. No offense to anyone, of course, but I'm just saying.
a) Bring the person back?
b) Erase the person's existance from memory
c) Bring the person back sans their own memory
d) Change history itself by erasing the person's existance
I like 'c' the best, because it would be a great way to introduce a new player to a group, who is the same level as everyone else, but has no idea of who he is or how he got there (he could be found naked wandering in the woods). I could be a whole story-arc around that, with im trying to figure out what happened (and who erased his name and why).
Good stuff you have given me to think about - Thanks.
-All of that said, I never much understood all of the..."attraction" of Jergal. He's interesting, to a degree, and most of that simply stems from the fact that he is such an enigma, but all the adventure plots about him being an evil mastermind and all of that...Eh. No offense to anyone, of course, but I'm just saying.
The attraction probably comes from the mystery. A LE greater deity of almost everything gives up all of his power to become LN and be a small footnote. The explanation we're given is that he was "Bored" but writing in a book all day doesn't seem to exciting to me. So let's make our own reasons and spice them up. Hence mine, where, as the only entity with extensive records of mortals, Jergal becomes an expert on the bloodlines, ancestry, death dates, and migrations. No other deity has such power, so badda bing! Story.
And about me being a wrench? I always try to ruin the day of someone else. :D
Would erasing a name -
a) Bring the person back?
b) Erase the person's existance from memory
c) Bring the person back sans their own memory
d) Change history itself by erasing the person's existance
-Hmm...Personally speaking, I think that (A) is the most likely thing that would happen.
The attraction probably comes from the mystery.
-Eh. There's a character in my favorite video game series- Suikoden- that seems universally liked, because he is mysterious, and wears black armor. Other than that, he's a decent character, but he's nothing amazing. Give him some more detail, and different set of armor, and half of the people who use him wouldn't. So, that's how I feel about things like that.
And about me being a wrench? I always try to ruin the day of someone else. :D
-I wouldn't have it any other way.
-Eh. There's a character in my favorite video game series- Suikoden- that seems universally liked, because he is mysterious, and wears black armor. Other than that, he's a decent character, but he's nothing amazing. Give him some more detail, and different set of armor, and half of the people who use him wouldn't. So, that's how I feel about things like that.
You speak of Yuber! I never really liked him, always too fan-boyish for me. I'm more of a Crowley or Flik & Victor fan.
Anyway, I see your point. The difference of course being in a video game, you cannot control the story of the character while in a game like FR, you as the DM control all elements of it so if one gives you some frustration, change it to your liking.
You speak of Yuber!
-Pesmerga, actually. ;)
Anyway, I see your point. The difference of course being in a video game, you cannot control the story of the character while in a game like FR, you as the DM control all elements of it so if one gives you some frustration, change it to your liking.
-Frustration, no. I just never understood why people were attracted to him, that's all.
-Pesmerga, actually. ;)
Mer? I don't recall that name, I'll have to play all five over again. -.-
Mer? I don't recall that name, I'll have to play all five over again. -.-
-Not to get too off-topic, but Pesmerga was the warrior looking for Yuber, that is theorized to be his "shadow", or that Yuber is his "shadow", being as that the two look exactly alike. He is Star of Destiny in Suikoden I and Suikoden II- both times he is recruited, it is either in or around Neclord's Castle.
-Not to get too off-topic, but Pesmerga was the warrior looking for Yuber, that is theorized to be his "shadow", or that Yuber is his "shadow", being as that the two look exactly alike. He is Star of Destiny in Suikoden I and Suikoden II- both times he is recruited, it is either in or around Neclord's Castle.
OH! Now I remember him. I didn't really care for him too much. I actually thought the guild stuff in II was more interesting. But thats too off topic...
Yay Jergal!!!!!!?
I found Deneir's Metatext more mysterious than Jergal's Doombook
-Perhaps the two are related?
-The Metatext being the embodiment of objectivism, and the Book of the Dead being...
Its the entire inside of the Crystal Sphere Realmspace resides in!
I wonder if all those millions of spells are still there now she is finaly gone.
Actually, I find Mystra's Spellbook the MOST interesting.
Its the entire inside of the Crystal Sphere Realmspace resides in!
-Eh, boring. You should've seen my spellbook, back in the day...
All of that said, I never much understood all of the..."attraction" of Jergal. He's interesting, to a degree, and most of that simply stems from the fact that he is such an enigma, but all the adventure plots about him being an evil mastermind and all of that...Eh. No offense to anyone, of course, but I'm just saying.
I fixed that problem by making it so he is forever an enigma. Since he has an alien mind, unknowable by mortals (and as an extension - ascended mortals to divinity) he is forever unknowable. You might be able to (in theory) trace certain events or actions back to him, or observe his actions - but really would they make any sense? He is effectively working on a completely different timescale - millennia ahead of most other deities and lifetimes ahead of mortals. A seemingly random minor action that Jergal takes could set in motion something that takes place 2,000 years in the future.
So I really do not have that problem. :P
Jergal accomplishes these things through the fact he has the ability to know every action that could lead to any single beings death. You cannot divine that far into the future - he only knows possibilities and probabilities, and the events surrounding the death.
So when he observes a mortal or a deity, within seconds he is able to determine an almost infinite number of deaths for them, separate the likely from the unlikely, and using the information obtained from the possible future deaths, manipulate events in such a way as to forward the cosmos to their ultimate end.
His mind has the ability to process all of this information as soon as he receives it, just as simple as us adding together 2+2.
This ensures that he will always remain mysterious and unknowable.
-All of that said, I never much understood all of the..."attraction" of Jergal.
You ever notice he looks like a Bodak? Or maybe... Bodaks look like him!
there's also some strange extra-planar race that he reminds me of... or he and they both remind me of 'Grays' - those spindly, long-armed and necked aliens rednecks are always being abducted by.
Leira and Oghma would best know how to combat Jergal's final plan (if it needs to be stopped) as they might decipher Jergal's coded book through their knowledge of words, truth and truenames.
Deneir's metatext was a lie created by Leira, the perfect deception that would end all truth.
-I disagree, and support the notion of Denier's Metatext.
Markus, those are the spellweavers, an ancient magical race searching for the meta-language. They communicate through lightglobes and gestures and can cast multiple spells at once with their six spindly arms. Used to have a multispheric empire that got shattered in a massive temporal cataclysm.
-They're in the Monster Manual II. I was just flipping through that for monster ideas.
That is exactly what Leira wants of you LK. Denial is a fine form of deception.
-Leira is also dead, so...
She needs to write herself out of Jergals Deadbook, because her truename is mentioned in it since the Time of Troubles.
-Sure, it would be in there. How's that for a zany Leiran plot?
There is no zany Leiran plot! What makes you think there is one?
-I never said I thought there was one. Why, is there?
