Jesus and Ilmater: Debate of The Ages - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Jesus and Ilmater: Debate of The Ages

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
JudgeDookie
Dec 25, 2009 1:05:23 Well, this has been gone over before, but since there are so few of us still huddling around the campfire these days, I figured it would be fun to bring up. I mean, it is Christmas after all...

Are the two one in the same or not?
#2
The_Silversword
Dec 25, 2009 1:12:40 Hmmm some definite similiarites. As i understand it Jesus is God in an avatar form, or an aspect of God. I guess the equivelent of God in the Realms would be Ao, and Ilmatter is a god and not a man or an avatar or aspect of Ao, not that we know of any way. So some similiarities in their doctrine, but aside from that very different, as i see it any way. Ilmater would definitely be preaching turn the other cheek.
#3
JudgeDookie
Dec 25, 2009 1:37:18 Ao was never meant to be known of to begin with. Assume that Earth knows of no Ao (as we don't).

#4
The_Silversword
Dec 25, 2009 1:43:29 Well If I had to pick a figure in the Realms who best fit with Jesus I would go with Ilmater. But theres plenty of deifferences, like Ilmater never died for our sins, or did he? I know some of the FR gods were once mortal, but im not sure about Ilmater. If there was a story about him being mortal and he sacrificed his life for some greater good, and was raised to godhood because of it, then yeah that would totally be like Jesus.
#5
angelus_obscura
Dec 25, 2009 1:54:39 Does this mean the new "House of the Triad" is the Holy Trinity?

Torm = God the Father, the smiting hand
Ilmater = Jesus, who died for our "sins"
Bahamut = God the Spirit? So I guess the "baptism by fire" is rly Bahamut's dragon breath, and the "tongues of fire" granted by him as well.

Does this mean Eberron's Traveller is Santa Claus, as he is called the Giver of Gifts?

#6
chaosfang
Dec 25, 2009 1:55:28 Jesus and Ilmater are completely different but among the deities of any edition of D&D, he's probably the closest to Jesus, specifically when it came to the similarities in some of their approaches (salvation through suffering perhaps?).
#7
The_Silversword
Dec 25, 2009 1:57:56
Does this mean the new "House of the Triad" is the Holy Trinity?

You might be on to something there!
#8
angelus_obscura
Dec 25, 2009 2:04:01 Whoops, made a booboo. Ilmater went to Sune in 4e. This "transition" reflects God going from a vengeful god in the Old Testament (Tyr) to the Loving/Forgiving God (Sune) in the New Testament. And Lliira, Sune's exarch, is the goddess of joy. Joy = ecstasy; divine ecstasy? As in possessed by the Holy Ghost ecstasy?

Awesome.
#9
angelus_obscura
Dec 25, 2009 9:57:25 Anyways, I went to bed late last night (not rly last night, more like 8 hours ago) and 2 thoughts popped into my head. First was that I hoped Santa didn't pass on my house because I was up so late.

The second was Sharess. Based on my previous posts, if Sune is God, Ilmater Jesus, and Lliira the Holy Spirit, what does that make Sharess? Now, bear with me and try not to hurl as u follow my twisted, convoluted, nog-addled neural pathways ...

Sharess is the Godhead. She is akin to the archangel Michael, keeper of the raw power of God HERself. She is named the godhead not because she has a gato (Spanish for cat) head, but because she gives godly ______. And when is her Second "Arrival", you ask? Such Revelations is unavailable as she will "Arrive" like a thief in the night, 'cause she is a cat woman ... who is a cat burglar.

This is the result of too much eggnog and a desire to escape annoying relatives.

Merrry Christmas, you filthy animals!
#10
The_Silversword
Dec 25, 2009 12:20:36 Godhead! lol! sounds good to me! merry Christmas indeed!
#11
Nai_Calus
Dec 25, 2009 12:36:13
...This thread is just asking to dissolve into a massive flamewar. Yikes.

And no, I'm not even a Christian, but yeah. It's uh, getting there really quickly.
#12
JudgeDookie
Dec 25, 2009 21:26:27
#13
The_Silversword
Dec 26, 2009 1:53:09

#14
Qube
Dec 26, 2009 9:22:08
Im not sure which religion you mean, whether you mean Christianity or Ilmaterism? But I assure you I have spent considerable time looking into both. The main point i was trying to make is that Jesus was a man, Ilmater is a god, so yeah big difference there.

depends on how you define man ... I would catalog him under demigod, just like hercules (ref. 3rd edition book about gods (can't remember the name) ).
#15
ORC_Ichor
Dec 26, 2009 11:18:22
This thread has been closed due to a VCL request.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 JudgeDookie Dec 25, 2009 1:05:23	Well, this has been gone over before, but since there are so few of us still huddling around the campfire these days, I figured it would be fun to bring up. I mean, it is Christmas after all... Are the two one in the same or not?
#2 The_Silversword Dec 25, 2009 1:12:40	Hmmm some definite similiarites. As i understand it Jesus is God in an avatar form, or an aspect of God. I guess the equivelent of God in the Realms would be Ao, and Ilmatter is a god and not a man or an avatar or aspect of Ao, not that we know of any way. So some similiarities in their doctrine, but aside from that very different, as i see it any way. Ilmater would definitely be preaching turn the other cheek.
#3 JudgeDookie Dec 25, 2009 1:37:18	Ao was never meant to be known of to begin with. Assume that Earth knows of no Ao (as we don't).
#4 The_Silversword Dec 25, 2009 1:43:29	Well If I had to pick a figure in the Realms who best fit with Jesus I would go with Ilmater. But theres plenty of deifferences, like Ilmater never died for our sins, or did he? I know some of the FR gods were once mortal, but im not sure about Ilmater. If there was a story about him being mortal and he sacrificed his life for some greater good, and was raised to godhood because of it, then yeah that would totally be like Jesus.
#5 angelus_obscura Dec 25, 2009 1:54:39	Does this mean the new "House of the Triad" is the Holy Trinity? Torm = God the Father, the smiting hand Ilmater = Jesus, who died for our "sins" Bahamut = God the Spirit? So I guess the "baptism by fire" is rly Bahamut's dragon breath, and the "tongues of fire" granted by him as well. Does this mean Eberron's Traveller is Santa Claus, as he is called the Giver of Gifts?
#6 chaosfang Dec 25, 2009 1:55:28	Jesus and Ilmater are completely different but among the deities of any edition of D&D, he's probably the closest to Jesus, specifically when it came to the similarities in some of their approaches (salvation through suffering perhaps?).
#7 The_Silversword Dec 25, 2009 1:57:56	Does this mean the new "House of the Triad" is the Holy Trinity? You might be on to something there!
#8 angelus_obscura Dec 25, 2009 2:04:01	Whoops, made a booboo. Ilmater went to Sune in 4e. This "transition" reflects God going from a vengeful god in the Old Testament (Tyr) to the Loving/Forgiving God (Sune) in the New Testament. And Lliira, Sune's exarch, is the goddess of joy. Joy = ecstasy; divine ecstasy? As in possessed by the Holy Ghost ecstasy? Awesome.
#9 angelus_obscura Dec 25, 2009 9:57:25	Anyways, I went to bed late last night (not rly last night, more like 8 hours ago) and 2 thoughts popped into my head. First was that I hoped Santa didn't pass on my house because I was up so late. The second was Sharess. Based on my previous posts, if Sune is God, Ilmater Jesus, and Lliira the Holy Spirit, what does that make Sharess? Now, bear with me and try not to hurl as u follow my twisted, convoluted, nog-addled neural pathways ... Sharess is the Godhead. She is akin to the archangel Michael, keeper of the raw power of God HERself. She is named the godhead not because she has a gato (Spanish for cat) head, but because she gives godly ______. And when is her Second "Arrival", you ask? Such Revelations is unavailable as she will "Arrive" like a thief in the night, 'cause she is a cat woman ... who is a cat burglar. This is the result of too much eggnog and a desire to escape annoying relatives. Merrry Christmas, you filthy animals!
#10 The_Silversword Dec 25, 2009 12:20:36	Godhead! lol! sounds good to me! merry Christmas indeed!
#11 Nai_Calus Dec 25, 2009 12:36:13	...This thread is just asking to dissolve into a massive flamewar. Yikes. And no, I'm not even a Christian, but yeah. It's uh, getting there really quickly.
#12 JudgeDookie Dec 25, 2009 21:26:27
#13 The_Silversword Dec 26, 2009 1:53:09
#14 Qube Dec 26, 2009 9:22:08	Im not sure which religion you mean, whether you mean Christianity or Ilmaterism? But I assure you I have spent considerable time looking into both. The main point i was trying to make is that Jesus was a man, Ilmater is a god, so yeah big difference there. depends on how you define man ... I would catalog him under demigod, just like hercules (ref. 3rd edition book about gods (can't remember the name) ).
#15 ORC_Ichor Dec 26, 2009 11:18:22	This thread has been closed due to a VCL request.