Wotc Article
August: Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide
"Learn ye well the lesson of the pebble that begets a landslide. Likewise a single betrayal unleashed the Spellplague, whose consequences yet dance and stagger across Toril, and beyond."
-- Elminster of Shadowdale
Year of the Ageless One (1479 DR)
The grime of centuries shrouds the hoary old book. Undeterred, you brush away the offending detritus. The smell of dust sharpens the air and hazes the light. A flip through the crackling pages reveals colorful sigils and ancient maps. Your breath catches with realization: You clutch a tome of unique oracular insight that details the length, breadth, and depths of Toril.
The first 4th Edition campaign setting releases later this summer, with a new look at the Forgotten Realms. If you've read the previews, you'll know by now that major changes have affected the Realms: starting with the Spellplague and the 100-year advancement of the timeline. Two books chart the Forgotten Realms: the Campaign Guide (August), and Player's Guide (September). The Campaign Guide contains the following, which are designed to provide DMs with information they can use to run adventures set in the Forgotten Realms:
Chapter 1: The Gray Vale. This chapter contains everything you need to start adventuring in the Realms right away. It provides a campaign starting point, complete with an opening encounter to draw together player characters. Here you'll find the town of Loudwater, detailing important personalities, plots, and rumors, and several dungeon and urban encounters.
Chapter 2: Adventure in the Realms. A toolkit containing useful information for DMs. This chapter offers advice on adjusting a campaign to the current timeline, more about the history of the world, and ways to add a bit of Realms flavor to your game.
Chapter 3: Magic and Fantastic Features. The changed landscape of Toril is described in this chapter. It also contains information about storied magic items and mighty rituals around which to build thrilling adventures.
Chapter 4: Cosmology. More information about the new planar arrangement and its effects on the world.
Chapter 5: Pantheon. This chapter details the new order among the gods and other powerful entities.
Chapter 6: Lands of the Realms. This chapter is more than just a travelogue of Toril. Each entry contains interesting locales and story elements to help you create your own distinct campaign.
Chapter 7: Threats. A new world faces new dangers -- and some old ones that yet threaten. Here are descriptions of dangerous organizations and bizarre new monsters.
That's a breakdown of the book's contents. For a look at the information presented within the Guide, here's a preview of the Realms Glossary:
Language is a living, changing thing. Using some of the following words during play is a great way to add color to roleplaying. This section is a crash course on how to use “Realmspeak.” These words can help set the mood during encounters, but there’s no need to try all of them, or use any that seem to break the mood. Overuse of dialect or invented words is clumsy, but you can bring the Realms to life by sprinkling in isolated words and phrases from those below, or by inventing words whose context makes their meanings clear. Most of these terms are in Common. Those from other languages are so identified.
changelands: A generic term for a piece of terrain that clearly doesn't fit in with the surrounding terrain, likely due to the Spellplague.
earthmote: A floating chunk of landscape hanging in the sky.
earth node: A place where magical power is concentrated.
Faerie: another name for the Feywild.
forestmote: An earthmote covered with forest.
gulletfire: bad beer or wine.
hawksnarl: A man who’s always yelling or blustering, or is nastier or more aggressive than prudent or necessary (more strongly: “a real hawksnarl”).
mythal: A permanent, site-based enchantment of powerful fey magic.
plagueland: A generic term describing anyplace where active Spellplague yet burns.
plaguechanged: The term for creatures touched by the first wave of Spellplague in the Year of Blue Fire; usually horrible monsters.
Plaguewrought Land, the: A specific location, the largest plagueland in Faerûn. prairiemote: An earthmote covered in tall grass.
Returned Abeir: The continent that was fused to Toril west of the Trackless Sea.
scorchkettle: A woman who delivers impressively blistering words to someone in public; see also “hawksnarl.”
sellsword: A well-established or veteran mercenary, or one of impressive reputation.
Spellplague, the: The event in 1385 DR resulting from Mystra’s death that altered magic and the world forever.
spellscar: A brand of blue fire that grants an ability, usually beneficial, but with some negative aspect.
spellscarred: The term for a creature (usually humanoid) touched by later, less virulent strains of the Spellplague and possessing a spellscar.
throatslake: Anything drinkable that takes care of thirst and doesn’t cause illness in doing so, but isn’t particularly pleasant.
watermote: An earthmote that contains a large water feature.
Weave, the: A term for magic; once used to mean magic mediated by Mystra.
"Learn ye well the lesson of the pebble that begets a landslide. Likewise a single betrayal unleashed the Spellplague, whose consequences yet dance and stagger across Toril, and beyond."
-- Elminster of Shadowdale
Year of the Ageless One (1479 DR)
The grime of centuries shrouds the hoary old book. Undeterred, you brush away the offending detritus. The smell of dust sharpens the air and hazes the light. A flip through the crackling pages reveals colorful sigils and ancient maps. Your breath catches with realization: You clutch a tome of unique oracular insight that details the length, breadth, and depths of Toril.
The first 4th Edition campaign setting releases later this summer, with a new look at the Forgotten Realms. If you've read the previews, you'll know by now that major changes have affected the Realms: starting with the Spellplague and the 100-year advancement of the timeline. Two books chart the Forgotten Realms: the Campaign Guide (August), and Player's Guide (September). The Campaign Guide contains the following, which are designed to provide DMs with information they can use to run adventures set in the Forgotten Realms:
Chapter 1: The Gray Vale. This chapter contains everything you need to start adventuring in the Realms right away. It provides a campaign starting point, complete with an opening encounter to draw together player characters. Here you'll find the town of Loudwater, detailing important personalities, plots, and rumors, and several dungeon and urban encounters.
Chapter 2: Adventure in the Realms. A toolkit containing useful information for DMs. This chapter offers advice on adjusting a campaign to the current timeline, more about the history of the world, and ways to add a bit of Realms flavor to your game.
Chapter 3: Magic and Fantastic Features. The changed landscape of Toril is described in this chapter. It also contains information about storied magic items and mighty rituals around which to build thrilling adventures.
Chapter 4: Cosmology. More information about the new planar arrangement and its effects on the world.
Chapter 5: Pantheon. This chapter details the new order among the gods and other powerful entities.
Chapter 6: Lands of the Realms. This chapter is more than just a travelogue of Toril. Each entry contains interesting locales and story elements to help you create your own distinct campaign.
Chapter 7: Threats. A new world faces new dangers -- and some old ones that yet threaten. Here are descriptions of dangerous organizations and bizarre new monsters.
That's a breakdown of the book's contents. For a look at the information presented within the Guide, here's a preview of the Realms Glossary:
Language is a living, changing thing. Using some of the following words during play is a great way to add color to roleplaying. This section is a crash course on how to use “Realmspeak.” These words can help set the mood during encounters, but there’s no need to try all of them, or use any that seem to break the mood. Overuse of dialect or invented words is clumsy, but you can bring the Realms to life by sprinkling in isolated words and phrases from those below, or by inventing words whose context makes their meanings clear. Most of these terms are in Common. Those from other languages are so identified.
changelands: A generic term for a piece of terrain that clearly doesn't fit in with the surrounding terrain, likely due to the Spellplague.
earthmote: A floating chunk of landscape hanging in the sky.
earth node: A place where magical power is concentrated.
Faerie: another name for the Feywild.
forestmote: An earthmote covered with forest.
gulletfire: bad beer or wine.
hawksnarl: A man who’s always yelling or blustering, or is nastier or more aggressive than prudent or necessary (more strongly: “a real hawksnarl”).
mythal: A permanent, site-based enchantment of powerful fey magic.
plagueland: A generic term describing anyplace where active Spellplague yet burns.
plaguechanged: The term for creatures touched by the first wave of Spellplague in the Year of Blue Fire; usually horrible monsters.
Plaguewrought Land, the: A specific location, the largest plagueland in Faerûn. prairiemote: An earthmote covered in tall grass.
Returned Abeir: The continent that was fused to Toril west of the Trackless Sea.
scorchkettle: A woman who delivers impressively blistering words to someone in public; see also “hawksnarl.”
sellsword: A well-established or veteran mercenary, or one of impressive reputation.
Spellplague, the: The event in 1385 DR resulting from Mystra’s death that altered magic and the world forever.
spellscar: A brand of blue fire that grants an ability, usually beneficial, but with some negative aspect.
spellscarred: The term for a creature (usually humanoid) touched by later, less virulent strains of the Spellplague and possessing a spellscar.
throatslake: Anything drinkable that takes care of thirst and doesn’t cause illness in doing so, but isn’t particularly pleasant.
watermote: An earthmote that contains a large water feature.
Weave, the: A term for magic; once used to mean magic mediated by Mystra.
18D
The 1st chapter is needed for a) new players, b) for DMs who are busy with real life, and c) as inspiration for the DM who is coming back to the Realms.
Personally, I'm going to have to read the book before judging it.
The 1st chapter is needed for a) new players, b) for DMs who are busy with real life, and c) as inspiration for the DM who is coming back to the Realms.
a) New Players can start anywhere the DMs deems so.
b) Not even the most busy DM is without time to think where the campaign is going to be placed. I do lot of planing in my head during the idle hours at work and when I'm commuting.
c) DMs don't need one chapter to get inspiration, they only need to know the setting.
So I think this full chapter dedicated to something that probably is going to be used once in the lifetime of the DM is completele unecessary.
This chapter contains everything you need to start adventuring in the Realms right away. It provides a campaign starting point, complete with an opening encounter to draw together player characters. Here you'll find the town of Loudwater, detailing important personalities, plots, and rumors, and several dungeon and urban encounters.
Like I said, it's for DMs who need a ready-made place (and possibly an adventure) to start in, either because of lack of experience or the lack of time. It's a detailed place for those who can't or don't have the time to do the detailing themselves. Also, you can simply use it as inspiration for a place of your own.
I get a bit of a throatslaked feeling from it. The info in the settingbook will quench my thirst for lore, but I'll not particularly enjoy it much. I am glad the realmsian cosmology and pantheons will get a full chapter of info each.
I agree with goldomark about the 1st chapter. Is it really that necessary? One thing is to make the DM's work easier. Another one is to treat them like they don't know how to do anything. It's a thing they are doing in all 4e work. Do you wanna know how many newbies' FR 4e games will begin in the Gray Vale? Please, doesn't anyone want to be original in his first game?
Maybe there are some who would rather have some guidance.
Doesn't really tell us much we couldn't have surmised for ourselves... a bit more specific, but nothing suprising per se.
Agreed.
I would have liked the Realmspeak section more if a good half of it wasn't about Spellplague garbage (I won't mince words here--that's what I think of it) like the motes and changelands. By the way, I didn't think the "mote" terms were specific to the Realms, which is what "Realmspeak" is supposed to be. Is "Returned Abeir" some type of special, Realms-specific term no one would have thought of on their own?
Wonder how many pages in this book.
288. The Player's Guide is 160.
-That said, well, at least we know what will be in each book.
My DM has already said he plans to run a FR campaign, so I'm excited about the Player's Guide. It looks like I'm going to be stuck as my groups DD (Designated Defender), so I like the extra option the Swordmage should give me.
I was assuming that the book would be around 360 (or so), like the FRCS.
The FRCS is 320 pages long.
288. The Player's Guide is 160.
Judging by the number of chapters, it seems like a lot of those pages will be devoted to the geography chapter. At least, that is my hope. I like a lot of detail in that chapter so I can have a good idea of what's going on in the area(s) I ultimately choose to set a campaign.
The FRCS is 320 pages long.
-Hence the 'or so'. Had 364 on my mind...
They broke into into two seperate books so they can get $60 rather the the $40 one book would have netted them.
Anyhow, I think the first chapter is neccessary, but I also agree with the folks who think it should have just been incorporated into the second chapter - why tell people HOW to run the realms after the chapter with a starter adventure?
Anyhow, considering both sourcebooks put together has about as much info as any single campaign guide produced elsewhere, and NO other sourcebooks are forthcoming (just an adventure), it seems to me that it would be counter-productive for any old fan of the Realms to run the new Realms.
For new DMs this tome should be perfect, but for long-time fans I don't see how it could compare to everything we already 'know' and have for the setting of 1358-1386 DR. That would be akin to a best-selling author taking a 10th grade English course, or a Nasa Engineer reading Rocket-Science for Dummies.
Moving forward into the new era will leave us with FAR LESS playable material then if we just stayed put.
But I will still buy it, as I will the 4e rules - I'm a sucker for punishment. :P
If someone were to run an old realms campaign with the new rules, wouldn't the players guide be helpful in some fashion? I'd imagine it comes with stats for weapons, power, etc. relevant to the realms and traslated for use with the new rules. I can see the new setting being less than useful though.
But I will still buy it, as I will the 4e rules - I'm a sucker for punishment. :P
Why would you do that? If you dont like it dont buy it. When you buy it you tell WotC you DO like it and encourage them to do more of it. Look at it at the store, if you like it then buy it, but if not please dont.
MOST other setting books are 400+ pages.
they are?
Agreed.
I would have liked the Realmspeak section more if a good half of it wasn't about Spellplague garbage (I won't mince words here--that's what I think of it) like the motes and changelands. By the way, I didn't think the "mote" terms were specific to the Realms, which is what "Realmspeak" is supposed to be. Is "Returned Abeir" some type of special, Realms-specific term no one would have thought of on their own?
or the dumb Eberron wannabe spellscars
a) New Players can start anywhere the DMs deems so.
b) Not even the most busy DM is without time to think where the campaign is going to be placed. I do lot of planing in my head during the idle hours at work and when I'm commuting.
c) DMs don't need one chapter to get inspiration, they only need to know the setting.
So I think this full chapter dedicated to something that probably is going to be used once in the lifetime of the DM is completele unecessary.
Like you say all the time $E is tryingto get new players, so that might be needed for a brand new player/DM. I played only twice before my DM had to go and I was "forced" to DM and hook people to play with me (I'm like a DnD version of Vampire Lestat :P). That way as crappy it might seems to you (or me for that matter) new DMs don't need some one "show them the ropes" Make sense? ;)
They could've at least put that chapter at the end of the book.
I disagree. that's the introduction of the book. If you are a old player (and you decide to play 4E) you are going to buy it (God knows I'm trying to buy every book that is related to 3.5 FR). A new player doen't know about the setting and that's the first thing they are going to read.
I disagree. that's the introduction of the book. If you are a old player (and you decide to play 4E) you are going to buy it (God knows I'm trying to buy every book that is related to 3.5 FR). A new player doen't know about the setting and that's the first thing they are going to read.
I rarely find people read RPG supplements front to back. They dig in to what appeals to them the most, then go back and read the rest. Often they'll just page flip until they've found something they missed.
I rarely find people read RPG supplements front to back. They dig in to what appeals to them the most, then go back and read the rest. Often they'll just page flip until they've found something they missed.
Hey Aasimar! Who asked you?!? Go to a thread that people acctually want your opinion (like "Ody's Upcomming 3.5 Campain :P) and leave us alone!!!
Hey Aasimar! Who asked you?!? Go to a thread that people acctually want your opinion (like "Ody's Upcomming 3.5 Campain :P) and leave us alone!!!
Why the hell would I want to comment on your dumbaasimar campaign?
I read my RPG Supplements from front to back, though that's usually after I've glanced through to see the most juicy bits.
I do not lie. ;)
Why the hell would I want to comment on your dumbaasimar campaign?
Cuz we can (and will) bash each other's aasimars w/o people giving a Zaeshir (no offence bro, you just looke really rat-ish) aasimar. And we can avoid colateral damage to other threads ;)
Cuz we can (and will) bash each other's aasimars w/o people giving a Zaeshir (no offence bro, you just looke really rat-ish) aasimar. And we can avoid colateral damage to other threads ;)
Well, if you say so. Either way, I don't know how Zaeshir ends up looking "ratish."
What's more, there shouldn't even be a newbie adventure. New players should always be introduced to RPGs by experienced DMs who know how to run things and how to explain the game to the player.
And like I said some people just DON'T HAVE THAT CHANCE. look I have no plans of playing 4E Mainly cuz I'm not interested In hearing a deep voice from the skiy saying "Ody Needs Food Badly". but DnD whether we like it or not is a game that every one can play. From the role-player to the roll-players to the Anime Freaks to the Fantasy Geeks to the Devoted to the Casual.
I think everyone should get the chance to enjoy the game and do whatever floats your boat. just my
And like I said some people just DON'T HAVE THAT CHANCE. look I have no plans of playing 4E Mainly cuz I'm not interested In hearing a deep voice from the skiy saying "Ody Needs Food Badly". but DnD whether we like it or not is a game that every one can play. From the role-player to the roll-players to the Anime Freaks to the Fantasy Geeks to the Devoted to the Casual.
I think everyone should get the chance to enjoy the game and do whatever floats your boat. just my
Well, it's not my problem if somebody can't find a DM (very hard to do in this time, since cities starting from large populations have at least one RPGs club, in Buenos Aires we have like 10, and there are more in Cordoba, the RPG capital of Argentina)
18D
Well, it's not my problem if somebody can't find a DM (very hard to do in this time, since cities starting from large populations have at least one RPGs club, in Buenos Aires we have like 10, and there are more in Cordoba, the RPG capital of Argentina)
That's the thing friend the book it's not made for just you or just me. is for everyone. You know how many RPG clubs we have back In Puerto Rico? Zero. the only people that I know that play is the people that were friends of mine before and I "hooked them up" that's it.
I'm with you in 99% of what you say, bu saying stuff like " there shouldn't even be a newbie adventure. New players should always be introduced to RPGs by experienced DMs who know how to run things and how to explain the game to the player" or "
it's not my problem if somebody can't find a DM" is a little self rightgeous to say the least.
Besides what do you care if you ain't interested in swithching to 4E in the first place?
That's why I try to be sorta silent in the issue cuz I WON'T buy 4E so it doesn't really affect me either way
Cuz we can (and will) bash each other's aasimars w/o people giving a Zaeshir (no offence bro, you just looke really rat-ish) aasimar. And we can avoid colateral damage to other threads ;)
I'm actually not sure what my avatar is supposed to be, lol. It just looked kind of funny and off-beat and I hadn't seen anyone else on the boards use it, so I selected it
I rarely find people read RPG supplements front to back. They dig in to what appeals to them the most, then go back and read the rest. Often they'll just page flip until they've found something they missed.
-I do. I don't necessarily read everything I see, but I certainly skim everything. I had a lot of fun with LEoF and AGHorR doing that.
...I'm not interested In hearing a deep voice from the skiy saying "Ody Needs Food Badly
-I hear you. I'm pretty hungry myself...
-I do. I don't necessarily read everything I see, but I certainly skim everything. I had a lot of fun with LEoF and AGHorR doing that.
-I hear you. I'm pretty hungry myself...
Talking about hungry I have to get food to my GF(?) she's on etra duty for 14 days a now I have to go get her food every day since she can't go get it her self....
Talking about hungry I have to get food to my GF(?) she's on etra duty for 14 days a now I have to go get her food every day since she can't go get it her self....
-Well, think of the...benefits, I guess. ;)
-I do. I don't necessarily read everything I see, but I certainly skim everything. I had a lot of fun with LEoF and AGHorR doing that.
And when have you ever been considered The Norm?
But your skimming is much in the way of what I meant with page flipping. Except, in your case, any tidbit unread is something missed. A lot of people hate the fine details and are willing to take the quick synopsis of things.
Talking about hungry I have to get food to my GF(?) she's on etra duty for 14 days a now I have to go get her food every day since she can't go get it her self....
You just get controlled by everybody over there, don't you. ;)
I'm afraid this forum is actually worthless for anyone who wants to intelligently discuss running an FR campaign.
I'm afraid this forum is actually worthless for anyone who wants to intelligently discuss running an FR campaign.
Everybody's opinion counts.
Well, except for Ody's. His only counts occasionally. But he still remains valid, all the same.
Besides, as everything here is generally based on opinion, what you may consider intelligent is what someone else may consider dumb. Doesn't mean it is--just doesn't fall in line with the thoughts of others.
I personally feel fine with the Loudwater addition to the book. Though I do feel it should conclude things, rather than set them off.
While I understand (sort of) the disappointment and complaining on this forum related to 4e FR's changes, I don't understand the elitism.
I certainly don't understand why Alediran of all people would have a problem with the chapter since judging by what he's said on these boards during the, say, six months or so he isn't going to buy the damn book!
I think his plan is to tell future 4e Realms players how much better the 3e Realms are.I would also clarify that his use of the word "experienced," may not have been the best word choice, as it doesn't mean a "good" DM. Some of the more experienced DM's I've played with completely turned me off to the game. I'd much rather have a good one, than an experienced one if I'm coming in as a newbie.
You know, thinking about it, what seems like a waste of pagecount to a veteran player, could be very useful to a newbie DM, much like Ody was getting at.
Indeed. The same goes for the 4E DMG, as well--on the general boards, a few people were criticizing the fact that it includes material for beginners. What seems obvious to a veteran would not seem so to a beginner.
I rarely find people read RPG supplements front to back. They dig in to what appeals to them the most, then go back and read the rest. Often they'll just page flip until they've found something they missed.
That's what I do, actually.
Well, it's not my problem if somebody can't find a DM...
It might be ideal for someone to "learn the ropes" from an experienced DM. However, if for some reason they can't do that, shouldn't they still be able to learn about and enjoy a game they're interested in?
That's what I do, actually.
Which part?
I could have asked you, "Do you think squirrel's should be eaten or cuddled?"
Had you answered, "Yes," it wouldn't be all that clear, ya know? ;)
I'm actually not sure what my avatar is supposed to be, lol. It just looked kind of funny and off-beat and I hadn't seen anyone else on the boards use it, so I selected it
I think your avatar is adorable.
Which part?
I could have asked you, "Do you think squirrel's should be eaten or cuddled?"
Had you answered, "Yes," it wouldn't be all that clear, ya know? ;)
LOL
I mean, I like to flip through RPG books to read the parts I'm most interested in.
I'm afraid this forum is actually worthless for anyone who wants to intelligently discuss running an FR campaign.
Oh come on. Worthless? That's a little extreme, don't you think?
-Well, think of the...benefits, I guess. ;)
Well.... She works from 0600 til 2300 So there's no benefits anytime soon...
I'm afraid this forum is actually worthless for anyone who wants to intelligently discuss running an FR campaign.
-Oh, come off it. Seriously. Can you please cite some instances in which those who have come looking for help for their campaigns have been brushed off and their plights ignored? A quick look shows two people asking for help in their campaigns, and both of them being "serviced", so to speak.
I certainly don't understand why Alediran of all people would have a problem with the chapter since judging by what he's said on these boards during the, say, six months or so he isn't going to buy the damn book!
-How did you come to that conclusion? He is like the biggest 4e apologist there is. I say anything, and I can't escape him lecturing me about how his new system is so much better than my current system, and...
I think his plan is to tell future 4e Realms players how much better the 3e Realms are.
-I do believe he has stated that, yes.
Well.... She works from 0600 til 2300 So there's no benefits anytime soon...
-Well, keep your chin up. What's that saying? Good things come to those who wait? ;)
LOL
I mean, I like to flip through RPG books to read the parts I'm most interested in.
And there you go. ;)
Now that you've established that squirrels should be eaten, we shall move on....
-Well, keep your chin up. What's that saying? Good things come to those who wait? ;)
Which is why it is a saying and not a truth.
Ody, you're better off watching Doctor Phil here. Especially in your current predicament. ;)
Better, yet, Go watch Sex and the City. Everyone seems enlightened by it.
Well, it's not my problem if somebody can't find a DM
I am shocked and dismayed to find this attitude anywhere, much less from you, on these boards. Effectively you are saying you don't care about other people, and you are upset when gaming materials, which you aren't even going to buy, cater to their needs, because their needs aren't your problem. It's hard to believe that many people find FR fans elitist and are under the assumption that they needed to know lot's of FR lore before they can even begin when you see comments like this.
I see Drizzt is still on the cover.
And in the Realmspeak section, you can just tell which phrases Ed Greenwood came up with. The clever ones...
It's hard to believe that many people find FR fans elitist and are under the assumption that they needed to know lot's of FR lore before they can even begin when you see comments like this.
I take it you mean it's not hard to believe that.
So...
I see Drizzt is still on the cover.
And in the Realmspeak section, you can just tell which phrases Ed Greenwood came up with. The clever ones...
Yes, the words such as "scorchkettle" sound like they were created by Ed.
It might be ideal for someone to "learn the ropes" from an experienced DM. However, if for some reason they can't do that, shouldn't they still be able to learn about and enjoy a game they're interested in?
I am shocked and dismayed to find this attitude anywhere, much less from you, on these boards. Effectively you are saying you don't care about other people, and you are upset when gaming materials, which you aren't even going to buy, cater to their needs, because their needs aren't your problem. It's hard to believe that many people find FR fans elitist and are under the assumption that they needed to know lot's of FR lore before they can even begin when you see comments like this.
What I meant was that if the trully want to play then they should make all the possible effort of finding a DM who has skills to teach new players about the game, there are lots of things that new players will never get when they should without a good DM. And since you are going to play with a good DM (which includes experienced enough to create his own campaign) I think that chapter is unecessary, especially since most D&D players have their first steps in homebrew worlds.
That chapter would've been better placed in the DMG than on a setting book. It should be part of a newbie pack (and also a good way of making another book to sell).
And come one, it's not that hard to find a DM, if you live in a town or city with LGS (90% of the time, otherwise you would not even have a place to buy it unless you bought it on-line, which means you have an idea of what RPGs meant because something, a player most of the time, pointed you on that direction) you can always find somebody there, or use internet, or any other means, or play games like NWN to get the feeling of the rules (I've learned that way). Seriously, in this age of internet if you can't find anything is because you aren't making the effort, and that's the meaning of what I said.
Also, the DMG does have something like that. The Fallcrest chapter of the DMG even has a short little adventure to run.
That all being said, that chapter seems like it'd fit better near the end of the book. The Fallcrest chapter is at the end of the DMG for example.
If there is already a chapter for new DMs in the DMG then there is no need for one in the FRCG. As I said, the great mayority of DMs start DMin on their homebrews where they can make anything they want before starting on a setting (I'm a rare case because I've never DMed homebrew since I had already three years of reading FR sources)
Not necessarily. The Loudwater chapter may be more of a way to introduce players--old and new--to the new flavor of the realms. While an adventure, it may be more or less there to help establish the customs, slang and preluding history. Something that would be a bit more useful than a simple adventure.
I just don't see any specific reason not to have it there. Didn't the 3E FRCS have some starter adventures in it?
So...
I see Drizzt is still on the cover.
And in the Realmspeak section, you can just tell which phrases Ed Greenwood came up with. The clever ones...
-He is? But, what happened to...?
Didn't the 3E FRCS have some starter adventures in it?
-Yes.
Didn't the 3E FRCS have some starter adventures in it?
Yep. The Color of Ambition and Green Bones.
I'm afraid this forum is actually worthless for anyone who wants to intelligently discuss running an FR campaign.
not as worthless as 4e Realms
There is also a program called Fantasy Grounds where you can play RPGs with people around the world. So finding a good DM is not as hard as it seems.
And in this age of NWN you don't even need to buy a single D&D book when you can learn the most important mechanics of the game directly from it.
Yes and no. You can learn much about the game from playing CRPGs, that's true. However, at least a few of the rules in the game are bound to be tweaked (and in NWN, many rules were tweaked, sometimes heavily), and CRPGs aren't going to implement everything. I know none of the recent D&D CRPGs implemented rules for flying PCs, for example.
Yes and no. You can learn much about the game from playing CRPGs, that's true. However, at least a few of the rules in the game are bound to be tweaked (and in NWN, many rules were tweaked, sometimes heavily), and CRPGs aren't going to implement everything. I know none of the recent D&D CRPGs implemented rules for flying PCs, for example.
Yeah. It seems to be you can't completely translate. I suppose you could just make some stuff up as you go along but its not the same
-I've played about a half-hour or so of Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn, and I know nothing of the 2e rules (for the most part), so...
If you invest enough time in playing 2E games (can't say how much, though...) you'll at least learn some of the basics.
Doesn't mean you could DM a 2E game and be true to the actual rules, though. One thing I've often heard about 2E rules was that they weren't always intuitive and could be a pain. A lot of people were happy that 3E got rid of THACO, for example.A lot of people were happy that 3E got rid of THACO, for example.
-I was quite excited (at first) that I was able to get my AC to 18 near the beginning of the game. Little did I know...
-I was quite excited (at first) that I was able to get my AC to 18 near the beginning of the game. Little did I know...
Oh,
. That's sadder than normal. ;)-I was quite excited (at first) that I was able to get my AC to 18 near the beginning of the game. Little did I know...
You poor bastard!
And come one, it's not that hard to find a DM, if you live in a town or city with LGS
...rosy thinking, even in the situation you describe.
I know my FLGS has a sister shop that tries hard to put DMs with players, but their extra space for this got taken away just recently and there are no sign up sheets with “players looking for DMs/DMs looking for players” anymore.
Seriously, in this age of internet if you can't find anything is because you aren't making the effort, and that's the meaning of what I said.
If you don't have a computer, or don't have regular access to one or you do have a machine but also not a good internet connection, "making an effort" is not a statement that comports with reality.
Where I live, I see lots of Jr. High, High School and even Jr. College students compete with each other for limited time on computers at school and local libraries. This is because they don't have laptops or machines at home.
A great many real people with real lives can’t always be described as ones with plenty of disposable income and the means to provide even a cheap machine with a descent connection.
I live in a third world country where you have an economic crisis every decade, and by skill and knowledge of IT development alone I was able, in less than 3 years since I moved to Buenos Aires, to acomplish much.
Good job. That's something to be proud of.
But does everyone in Brazil possess the skill-set you have?
And you are telling me than in the country where computers and the internet were born you have difficulties to buy a computer and have internet access?
Yup.
The "haves" and "have nots" are as real here as anywhere else.
Oh,
You poor bastard!
-All that is 2e. I never played 2e. I began with 3e. How was I supposed to know? I know now, of course, but...
Good job. That's something to be proud of.
But does everyone in Brazil possess the skill-set you have?
Buenos Aires is in Argentina. And Argentina is one of the top 3 countries in the world, along with India and Russia, when you are talking about the quality of IT developers.
The "haves" and "have nots" are as real here as anywhere else.
Laptops here cost 3000 dollars.
-All that is 2e. I never played 2e. I began with 3e. How was I supposed to know? I know now, of course, but...
I gotta say, while I don't actually miss THAC0, I do miss saying THAC0. THAC0, THAC0, THAC0, THAC0, THAC0, THAC0, THAC0. :D
...And you are telling me than in the country where computers and the internet were born you have difficulties to buy a computer and have internet access?
Yes.
Unfortunately, there seems to be a big misperception concerning America here. We are more poor than rich, believe it or not. Though not by such standards as you would uphold.
The moment you made the statement about having access to a computer and the internet, I immediately took in the notion that you were from Argentina. I didn't realize you guys were number 3, but knew very well that you were staged at the top of IT outsourcing. Either way, I think you are being a bit optimistic towards things here in the states. Not everybody gets things handed to them here, and what we may develop is not necessarily free for the people. We're a capitalist country and, therefore, subject our own citizens to the best interest of one's self, rather than that of all.
Not arguing, just letting you know, my man. ;)
-All that is 2e. I never played 2e. I began with 3e. How was I supposed to know? I know now, of course, but...
Just giving you
.I gotta say, while I don't actually miss THAC0, I do miss saying THAC0. THAC0, THAC0, THAC0, THAC0, THAC0, THAC0, THAC0. :D
Now, if you can tell me what THAC0 is an acronym for, I'll be quite impressed. ;)
That's easy. To Hit Armor Class .
I'm so proud of you!!!
One day, when all the new 4e'ers come in, I'll tell them of your loyalty and beg them to strive for it.
Buenos Aires is in Argentina.
Damn. My bad.
:embarrass :embarrass :embarrass
Damn. My bad.
:embarrass :embarrass :embarrass
Oh,
!I thought you were trying to create a point with that statement.
Oh,
I mixed up my geography and felt a little embarrassed.
What's wrong with apologizing?
I mixed up my geography and felt a little embarrassed.
What's wrong with apologizing?
Nothing at all, my man. Glad you did so. I simply thought you brought up Brazil to argue a point. Very happy that wasn't the case. ;)
-I was quite excited (at first) that I was able to get my AC to 18 near the beginning of the game. Little did I know...
LOL. Yeah, in 2E, you wanted a LOW AC, into the negatives. Many people didn't think that was intuitive.
LOL. Yeah, in 2E, you wanted a LOW AC, into the negatives. Many people didn't think that was intuitive.
I was fine with it!!
You don't count. You're just a dookie
I do, too, count!
Someplace....
I don't need you telling me where I don't belong, Ody!
LOL. Yeah, in 2E, you wanted a LOW AC, into the negatives. Many people didn't think that was intuitive.
-Eh, low AC, high AC...I'm used to the higher, the better, but whatever. Though, having a lower the better system can be confusing, as attack bonuses would actually become attack negatives (that would actually be good), and so on...
-Anyway, I wonder what's going to be left to put in the other 4e Forgotten Realms book. That one is looking like it's going to be very rules heavy.
LOL. Yeah, in 2E, you wanted a LOW AC, into the negatives. Many people didn't think that was intuitive.
That was 1e too for you young folks
Those were the daaaaaaaaaays.
-Elf is not a class, I'm sorry.
I still miss that. I used to have so much fun with my elf. Then I hit 10th level and suddenly, things didn't seem quite as cheery, can't imagine why.....
-Elf is not a class, I'm sorry.
That wasn't 1st Edition AD&D.
That was in the days of dinosaurs like me (and of course in BECMI D&D).
-Elf is not a class, I'm sorry.
ahhh, yes, OD&D
I still miss that. I used to have so much fun with my elf. Then I hit 10th level and suddenly, things didn't seem quite as cheery, can't imagine why.....
-What happened? What happened?
-What happened? What happened?
Demi-human classes had a level cap. Halflings were at 8, Elves at 10, Dwarves at 12. Wielding your sword and casting spells in Full Plate is really sweet, but when you stop getting new spells, or lower saving throws, or even the measly amount of hit points you get each level after you hit name, it becomes a bit harder to remain relevant in the game. So I learned Cleric is the way to go. 100,000 xp between the higher levels? Bring on the healing baby!!!
Oh, yeah. I remember that class cap. That was just retarded.
Oddly enough, I rarely found it actually mattered in most games. Either the campaign didn't go on long enough for it to matter, or people played humans anyway.
Which doesn't mean it wasn't really stupid, and just about every published setting has some rationale for why it was acceptable to break it along with rules for it - even Mystara, in the GAZ series.
Oddly enough, I rarely found it actually mattered in most games. Either the campaign didn't go on long enough for it to matter, or people played humans anyway.
Which doesn't mean it wasn't really stupid, and just about every published setting has some rationale for why it was acceptable to break it along with rules for it - even Mystara, in the GAZ series.
It is, of course, up to a DM to choose what what not to incorporate into a game, but that stuff just isn't for me. Sort of, like, dwarves not being able to use magic--I understood the reasoning behind it, but am much happier now that they are no longer restricted from slinging spells.
In addition I have a couple of players who have never played in anything but 3e (and now 4e). I don't think explaining the old rules for nostalgia purposes would be worth my time. ;)
That said, I also miss saying THAC0
That said, I also miss saying THAC0
Me, too!
-What happened? What happened?
And you say rules don't have an effect on play experience.
Tsk, tsk. :P
Level caps were crap. Well intentioned, I guess, but ultimately not-fun crap.
Well intentioned, I guess, but ultimately not-fun crap.
-How were they well intentioned? Were the "racial classes" more powerful at the levels underneath the racial level cap than Humans?
-How were they well intentioned? Were the "racial classes" more powerful at the levels underneath the racial level cap than Humans?
Elves? Yes. Dwarves and halflings? Well they had better saves, the equivalent of evasion, and dwarves had better hit points. Other than that though, they were just basically fighters. Also with different xp progression it really should have been able to work out the power differences by simply allowing the demi-humans to level slower (which they did with dwarves, big time with elves, don't remember with the halflings). It's also important to point out that part of the reason the demi-humans had better saves before the level cap, was because they were going to hit the level cap and needed saves that would still operate well after they stopped leveling. They also did wonky stuff such as have certain xp amounts that activated different post cap affects (such as a large jump in your attack) rather than simply giving the class an additional level. So more or less you spent long swathes of time behind the curve on the chart to jump up at a milestone and then fall behind again until the next milestone. Personally I would have been happier if they just kept me leveling at a pace even slower than the wizard. I can live with being 4 levels behind my companions, but getting up to 16 is a bit much.
never understood why halflings were capped at 8th?
-Because they were 3 feet tall in that Edition. ;) :P :D
18DELTA :P
-Because they were 3 feet tall in that Edition. ;) :P :D
18DELTA :P
didn't realize levels grew along with height
-How were they well intentioned?
The rules were trying to balance the game on a flavor assumption.
That's a good thing...the spirit behind it.
It's now that we've come to realize the same is not always true in practice so far as 1E was concerned.
:::::::::
How often to we get flavor influencing rules anymore? Now it seems like they re-write the flavor to fit around the rules. Meh.
The level cap was indeed good-intentioned, but as others have mentioned, in most games it never came into play.
So there was no good reason to play a human back then - now there is.
And now 4E comes along, and in addition to that, humans also get a bonus language, bonus at-will power, a +1 bonus to Fort, Ref, and Will, and a +2 bonus to any one stat of their choice. WHOO HOO! :DI never understood why there was such a multiclass restriction and level cap back in the day. I remember trying to get into the rules back in the 80's and not understanding how this crap was fun. 3E helped change my mind.
For whatever, Gygax felt in designing OD&D and AD&D 1e, that human should control the world and he felt it was important to steer players into playing humans more so than demihumans.
How often to we get flavor influencing rules anymore? Now it seems like they re-write the flavor to fit around the rules. Meh.
-Once in a blue moon. In an official capacity, anyway.
...and a +2 bonus to any one stat of their choice. WHOO HOO! :D
I find this to be exceptional after all these years. When I looked through the preview guide and saw this, I didn't quite believe it.
Now playing a human seems a bit more interesting. Let alone, fair.
I find this to be exceptional after all these years. When I looked through the preview guide and saw this, I didn't quite believe it.
Now playing a human seems a bit more interesting. Let alone, fair.
Not a bad idea
For Sun Elves and Moon Elves based on Pathfinder Elves I would change the +2 to DEX from Elves to +2 to any stat for Sun Elves, and the +2 INT for any stat for Moon Elves.
For Sun Elves and Moon Elves based on Pathfinder Elves I would change the +2 to DEX from Elves to +2 to any stat for Sun Elves, and the +2 INT for any stat for Moon Elves.
-Sun Elves deserve the plus to INT, not anything else. Moon Elves would get it in DEX, I guess. Maybe WIS, when applied in an abstract way.
-Sun Elves deserve the plus to INT, not anything else. Moon Elves would get it in DEX, I guess. Maybe WIS, when applied in an abstract way.
They need to get that +2 to anything else because all races have more +X to a stat. Even humans and Half-Elves get +2 (to any ability score of choice for them).
They need to get that +2 to anything else because all races have more +X to a stat. Even humans and Half-Elves get +2 (to any ability score of choice for them).
-Yes, I understand that. I said Sun Elves would be more accurate if it applied towards INT, and not simply anything.
-Yes, I understand that. I said Sun Elves would be more accurate if it applied towards INT, and not simply anything.
What I said was +2 INT, -2 CON, +2 to anything else (except INT) because the standar Elf in PRPG has +2 DEX -2 CON +2 INT.
I don't see why both can have +2 Dex and +2 Int. I see moon elves more intelligent than wise or charismatic, as well as sun elves more dexterous rather than strong, for example.
-Nothing is balanced now. Two plusses and one minus?
It depends on where do you place the needle.
-I noticed on the main WotC upcoming page, they don't mention the Forgotten Realms book.
Are the guys at Pathfinder going to update some 'monsters', such as the above mentioned planetouched?
I think there is a book called Classic Monsters Revisited
Me, too!
Ahh THAC0, we you are fondly remembered.
I miss JD...
As do I
18DELTA :embarrass
-We all miss him and his crazy "Bejebus".
I miss him even though I often had a hard time trying to figure what the heck he was talking about
Here's an honorary dookie dance, just for him:
-The moral of the story kids is DON'T EVER FEED A TROLL.
18DELTA ;)
-The moral of the story kids is DON'T EVER FEED A TROLL.
-Indeed. When someone violates the CoC, via trolling, baiting, flaming, whatever it is, either outright, or perceived, press the 'Report Post' button on the right hand side of the offending post, and it summons a WizO to deal with the problem.
-Trolls come in many shapes, sizes, agendas, and names, so be vigilant...
-Sent you a PM.
Could you send me a PM about JD too?