That is one 4th wedition game I would eagerly play.
Official stats wont be revealed in quite some time unless WotC actually DOES plan to release an adventure where you get to assault the Supreme Throne and kill Cyric.
Here are the stats he devised for Bane (level 38 solo soldier)
Show
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Bane Level 38 Solo Soldier (Leader)
Large immortal humanoid, greater deity XP 395,000
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Initiative +28 Senses Perception +33; darkvision
Ultimate Tyranny (Fear) aura 20; enemies that enter or start their turns in the aura take a -2 penalty to attack rolls and damage rolls. While Bane is bloodied, enemies in the aura also take 20 damage.
HP 1,710; Bloodied 855; see also Discorporation
Regeneration 15
AC 58; Fortitude 53, Reflex 53, Will 54
Immune to attacks by creatures below level 25, fear, poison; Resist 15 to all damage
Saving Throws +5; whenever an attack applies an effect to Bane that a save can end, he immediately rolls a saving throw. If he succeeds, Bane is unaffected by the effect. Bane also makes saving throws at the end of each of his turns as normal.
Speed 8, teleport 10
Action Points 5
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(M) Black Hand of Bane (standard; at-will) - Necrotic, Weapon
Reach 2; +45 vs. AC; 4d8 + 11 damage (critical 5d8 + 43 plus 6d8 necrotic damage), and the target is pushed 3 squares and is marked (save ends, with a -3 penalty to the saving throw). Bane can mark more than one target at the same time. Miss: Half damage, and the target is neither pushed nor marked.
(R) Black Hand of Bane (standard; at-will) - Necrotic, Weapon
Ranged 20; +43 vs. Reflex; 4d8 + 10 necrotic damage, and the target is pushed 5 squares and is weakened (save ends). The target cannot regain hit points nor use healing surges as long as it is weakened. Miss: Half damage, and the target is pushed 2 squares and is dazed.
Fall Back (immediate reaction, when an enemy moves or teleports in a square adjacent to Bane; recharge 4 5 6) – Fear
+43 vs. Will; the nearest ally of Bane makes a basic attack against the target. After this attack the target immediately moves its speed away from Bane. The fleeing target avoids unsafe squares and difficult terrain if it can.
Dark Intimidation (minor, 1/round; recharge 4 5 6) - Charm, Fear
Ranged 15; +43 vs. Will; the target is dominated (save ends). Aftereffect: The target cannot use powers with the Necrotic or Radiant keyword (save ends). Saving throws against these effects take a –2 penalty.
Intolerable Blasphemy (standard; recharge 5 6) - Psychic
Close blast 5; +41 vs. Will; 4d10 + 9 psychic damage, and the target takes ongoing 10 psychic damage (save ends). Miss: Half damage, and the target takes ongoing 5 psychic damage (save ends).
Divine Inspiration (minor; recharges when first bloodied)
Close burst 10; until the end of Bane’s next turn, Bane and all allies in the burst deal an extra 4d6 damage and score a critical hit on a roll of 18–20.
Black Lord’s Curse (standard; encounter) – Necrotic, Psychic
Area burst 5 within 20; +41 vs. Will; 6d10 + 9 psychic damage, and the target is restrained (save ends). Aftereffect: The target is immobilized (save ends). Aftereffect: The target takes 19 necrotic damage.
Inescapable Wrath
If an enemy is within Bane’s reach and an ally is adjacent to the same enemy, that enemy grants combat advantage to Bane and the adjacent ally.
Tyrant’s Reach
Bane can make opportunity attacks against all enemies within his reach (2 squares with Black Hand of Bane). In addition, Bane can make any number of opportunity attacks per turn.
Discorporation
When Bane becomes bloodied, he discorporates and is unable to take physical form for a time.
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Alignment Evil Languages Common, Supernal
Skills Acrobatics +31, Arcana +33, Athletics +35, Bluff +37, Diplomacy +37, Insight +33, Intimidate +37, Religion +33, Stealth +31, Thievery +31
Str 32 (+30) Dex 25 (+26) Wis 29 (+28)
Con 30 (+29) Int 28 (+28) Cha 36 (+32)
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Equipment Black Hand of Bane
Bane’s Tactics
While Bane is an expert martial combatant he prefers to somewhat keep a distance between him and the battlefield. Bane usually begins combat with a basic attack and with Dark Intimidation. He frequently takes use of Fall Back and Inescapable Wrath and his ability to make as many opportunity attacks per round as he desires. Against enemies that get close to him he uses Intolerable Blasphemy before making a melee basic attack. Black Lord’s Curse Bane usually uses just before he becomes bloodied. When bloodied, Bane always dicorporates due to Discorporation.
Bane Level 38 Solo Soldier (Leader)
Large immortal humanoid, greater deity XP 395,000
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Initiative +28 Senses Perception +33; darkvision
Ultimate Tyranny (Fear) aura 20; enemies that enter or start their turns in the aura take a -2 penalty to attack rolls and damage rolls. While Bane is bloodied, enemies in the aura also take 20 damage.
HP 1,710; Bloodied 855; see also Discorporation
Regeneration 15
AC 58; Fortitude 53, Reflex 53, Will 54
Immune to attacks by creatures below level 25, fear, poison; Resist 15 to all damage
Saving Throws +5; whenever an attack applies an effect to Bane that a save can end, he immediately rolls a saving throw. If he succeeds, Bane is unaffected by the effect. Bane also makes saving throws at the end of each of his turns as normal.
Speed 8, teleport 10
Action Points 5
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(M) Black Hand of Bane (standard; at-will) - Necrotic, Weapon
Reach 2; +45 vs. AC; 4d8 + 11 damage (critical 5d8 + 43 plus 6d8 necrotic damage), and the target is pushed 3 squares and is marked (save ends, with a -3 penalty to the saving throw). Bane can mark more than one target at the same time. Miss: Half damage, and the target is neither pushed nor marked.
(R) Black Hand of Bane (standard; at-will) - Necrotic, Weapon
Ranged 20; +43 vs. Reflex; 4d8 + 10 necrotic damage, and the target is pushed 5 squares and is weakened (save ends). The target cannot regain hit points nor use healing surges as long as it is weakened. Miss: Half damage, and the target is pushed 2 squares and is dazed.
Fall Back (immediate reaction, when an enemy moves or teleports in a square adjacent to Bane; recharge 4 5 6) – Fear
+43 vs. Will; the nearest ally of Bane makes a basic attack against the target. After this attack the target immediately moves its speed away from Bane. The fleeing target avoids unsafe squares and difficult terrain if it can.
Dark Intimidation (minor, 1/round; recharge 4 5 6) - Charm, Fear
Ranged 15; +43 vs. Will; the target is dominated (save ends). Aftereffect: The target cannot use powers with the Necrotic or Radiant keyword (save ends). Saving throws against these effects take a –2 penalty.
Intolerable Blasphemy (standard; recharge 5 6) - Psychic
Close blast 5; +41 vs. Will; 4d10 + 9 psychic damage, and the target takes ongoing 10 psychic damage (save ends). Miss: Half damage, and the target takes ongoing 5 psychic damage (save ends).
Divine Inspiration (minor; recharges when first bloodied)
Close burst 10; until the end of Bane’s next turn, Bane and all allies in the burst deal an extra 4d6 damage and score a critical hit on a roll of 18–20.
Black Lord’s Curse (standard; encounter) – Necrotic, Psychic
Area burst 5 within 20; +41 vs. Will; 6d10 + 9 psychic damage, and the target is restrained (save ends). Aftereffect: The target is immobilized (save ends). Aftereffect: The target takes 19 necrotic damage.
Inescapable Wrath
If an enemy is within Bane’s reach and an ally is adjacent to the same enemy, that enemy grants combat advantage to Bane and the adjacent ally.
Tyrant’s Reach
Bane can make opportunity attacks against all enemies within his reach (2 squares with Black Hand of Bane). In addition, Bane can make any number of opportunity attacks per turn.
Discorporation
When Bane becomes bloodied, he discorporates and is unable to take physical form for a time.
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Alignment Evil Languages Common, Supernal
Skills Acrobatics +31, Arcana +33, Athletics +35, Bluff +37, Diplomacy +37, Insight +33, Intimidate +37, Religion +33, Stealth +31, Thievery +31
Str 32 (+30) Dex 25 (+26) Wis 29 (+28)
Con 30 (+29) Int 28 (+28) Cha 36 (+32)
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Equipment Black Hand of Bane
Bane’s Tactics
While Bane is an expert martial combatant he prefers to somewhat keep a distance between him and the battlefield. Bane usually begins combat with a basic attack and with Dark Intimidation. He frequently takes use of Fall Back and Inescapable Wrath and his ability to make as many opportunity attacks per round as he desires. Against enemies that get close to him he uses Intolerable Blasphemy before making a melee basic attack. Black Lord’s Curse Bane usually uses just before he becomes bloodied. When bloodied, Bane always dicorporates due to Discorporation.
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Cyric Level 36 Solo Lurker (Controller)
Medium immortal humanoid, greater deity XP 335,000
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Initiative +38 Senses Perception +31; darkvision
Maddening Frenzy (Fear, Psychic) aura 20; enemies that enter or start their turns in the aura take a -2 penalty to attack rolls and damage rolls. While Cyric is bloodied, enemies in the aura also take 20 damage.
HP 1,070; Bloodied 535; see also Discorporation
Regeneration 15
AC 59; Fortitude 51, Reflex 57, Will 54
Immune to attacks by creatures below level 25, fear, poison; Resist 15 to all damage
Saving Throws +5; whenever an attack applies an effect to Cyric that a save can end, he immediately rolls a saving throw. If he succeeds, Cyric is unaffected by the effect. Cyric also makes saving throws at the end of each of his turns as normal.
Speed 9, teleport 10
Action Points 4
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Sneak Attack Cyric deals +5d6 damage to creatures that grant him combat advantage
Cyrics targets that are weakened cannot regain hit points nor use healing surges.
(M) Razor's Edge (standard; at-will) - Necrotic, Weapon
Reach 2; +45 vs. AC; 4d8 + 9 damage (critical 5d8 + 43 plus 6d8 necrotic damage), and the target is weakened (save ends). Miss: Half damage, and the target is not weakened.
(R) Divine Blast (standard; at-will) - Necrotic, Arcane
Ranged 40; +45 vs. Reflex; 4d8 + 9 necrotic damage, and the target is pushed 5 squares and is weakened (save ends). Miss: Half damage, and the target is pushed 2 squares and is dazed.
Shadow Sting (move; recharge 4 5 6) - Teleportation, Weapon
Cyric teleports up to 8 squares and makes a melee basic attack either after the teleportation or at any point during that teleportation.
Dark Lies (minor, 1/round; recharge 4 5 6) - Charm, Fear
Ranged 15; +42 vs. Will; the target is dominated (save ends). Aftereffect: The target cannot use powers with the Necrotic or Radiant keyword (save ends). Saving throws against these effects take a –2 penalty.
Phantom Misdirection (standard; recharge 5 6) - Illusion
Close blast 5; +41 vs. Will; 4d10 + 9 psychic damage, and the target takes ongoing 10 psychic damage (save ends) and grants combat advantage to Cyric. Miss: Half damage, and the target takes ongoing 5 psychic damage (save ends).
Invisibility (minor, 1/round; at-will) - Illusion
Cyric becomes invisible until he attacks or until he is hit by an attack. He remains invisible while using Phantom Misdirection and Shadow Sting.
Gate (standard; encounter) - Summoning
Cyric summons a group of demonic or abberrant allies. Summoned creatures roll initiative to determine when they act in the initiative order and gain a +4 bonus to attack rolls as long as Cyric is alive. They remain until they are killed, dismissed by Eblis (free action), or the encounter ends. PCs do not earn experience points for killing these summoned creatures. Cyric chooses to summon one of the following groups of creatures:
- 2 Dark Angels (level 28) and 5 marilith (advanced; level 26), or
- 1 Balor (level 26) and 1 Elder Beholder (advanced; level 26) and 4 soldier demons (advanced; level 26), or
- 1 Balor (level 26) and 1 dark angel (level 28) and 3 marilith (advanced; level 26)
Summoned Beholders, Balors and Mariliths have only half their normal amount of hit points, and they cannot use their Infernal Summons ability.
Inescapable Wrath
If an enemy is within Cyric’s reach and an ally is adjacent to the same enemy, that enemy grants combat advantage to Cyric and the adjacent ally.
Conquerer’s Reach
Cyric can make opportunity attacks against all enemies within his reach (2 squares with Razors Edge). In addition, Cyric can make any number of opportunity attacks per turn.
Discorporation
When Cyric becomes bloodied, he discorporates and is unable to take physical form for a time. He looks like a boiling green black inferno at this time.
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Alignment Chaotic Evil Languages Common, Supernal
Skills Acrobatics +36, Arcana +33, Athletics +31, Bluff +40, Diplomacy +37, Insight +38, Intimidate +31, Religion +33, Stealth +36, Thievery +36
Str 25 (+26) Dex 30 (+29) Wis 21 (+24)
Con 22 (+25) Int 32 (+30) Cha 36 (+32)
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Equipment Razors Edge
Cyric’s Tactics
While Cyric is an expert martial combatant he prefers to somewhat keep a distance between him and his opponent. Cyric usually begins combat with a basic attack and with Dark Lies. He frequently makes use of Invisibility and Inescapable Wrath to make as many sneak attacks per round as possible. Aganst a single closing target Cyric uses Shadow Stings repeatedly turning invisible. Against multiple enemies that get close to him he uses Phantom Misdirection after becoming invisible and moving into a favorable position to make melee opportunity basic attacks. Cyric rarely uses his Gate ability. When bloodied, Cyric always dicorporates due to Discorporation.
'Striker' isn't a monster role, although I do heartily support the death of Cyric.
Yeah I was hoping they would make it official...
But two questions...
1) Has far as fluff is he not bound to a chair? I think I would give him no movement...though it would also render him immune being moved also.
2) Discoporation should not work when his in his domain. Or should it?
But kill the guy? Really? As far as evil gods go, I really like Cyric. Hes alot smarter than people give him credit for, look at all hes managed to accomplish in just the short time hes been a god. I always thought Bane should of stayed dead, and Cyric should of whacked Iyachtu too and taken on his portfolios as well. And I dont care what anybody says Cyric's Shadow is still an aspect of Mask.
never will
never have either.
but I once played a pcrpg name Ultima, think it was 6...anyway in one of them, there was a mage who was mad, stated there was a thin line between genius and madness.
Cyric is intelligent, however; his wis score is lower so he isnt as wise as he is smart.
he is also has waaaayy to much Ambition, so much ambition that it became a Lost Secret and it ended up being used by Shar.
he isnt bright...
as for Bane..... well his follower's make great villians
The Church of Cyric DOES NOT endorse this thread...
if that is the truth that it lied to itself and Cyric is not pleased, If they lied than Cyric is pleased as all attemps would fail and he would ahve new slaves...... or so he would tell himself..
Cyric is bound to the Supreme Throne, but its not a chair exactly, or a toilet, thats the name of his plane, so he has a whole plane to move about in.
But kill the guy? Really? As far as evil gods go, I really like Cyric. Hes alot smarter than people give him credit for, look at all hes managed to accomplish in just the short time hes been a god. I always thought Bane should of stayed dead, and Cyric should of whacked Iyachtu too and taken on his portfolios as well. And I dont care what anybody says Cyric's Shadow is still an aspect of Mask.
Got it...I envision more of being put in the stool in a cornor with a dunce cap...but your interpertation makes sense.
No he really has not done alot of smart things...he has done alot of dumb things that suceeded due to author fiat.
He is alot more contrived...plor protected character ever in FR. That is my opinion though and you can like him as much as you have before. And if they kill him officialy there is nothing that says you can't keep him around. I mean Elistraee is still alive in the game I play...actualy it is a blessing...when they kill off a god that means they start writting them as morons and you can make them cool again.
Yes I admitt I am very bias in my opinions.
The Church of Cyric DOES NOT endorse this thread...
face it your punk is going down 18Delta...that is ok I am sure...mmm...Fzoul the exarchs of minions will take you in. Muwhahaha
The Church of Cyric will endorse a Kill Torm Campaign
18DELTA(ALL WILL LEARN THE GLORY THAT IS CYRIC!)
No he really has not done alot of smart things...he has done alot of dumb things that suceeded due to author fiat.
Yet not even the Cyrinishad-debacle (we should better not talk about Mask's own stupidty during this events) comes even close to the stupidity Bane should in the Pools of [...] and Avatar novels (not that his latest appearance in the Thay Trilogy was anything less of an complete disgrace)
The Church of Cyric DOES NOT endorse this thread...
The soon to be revived Church of Mystra DOES endorse this thread.
Cyric will kill her yet again.
which if the next myastra turns out to be a male, he would have a bit of a problem....
No he really has not done alot of smart things...he has done alot of dumb things that suceeded due to author fiat.
Yet not even the Cyrinishad-debacle (we should better not talk about Mask's own stupidty during this events) comes even close to the stupidity Bane should in the Pools of [...] and Avatar novels (not that his latest appearance in the Thay Trilogy was anything less of an complete disgrace)
I agree they write all the gods as moronic. It is just Cyric as been moronic from the get go. Even as a mortal he was badly written. Also please note when Mask did something stupid he paid for it...Bane also paid for his stupidity. Cyric does not pay for his stupidity...it works, because the authors say so.
Also from the point of a RPer he is the type of player nobody likes. If the Avatar seris was a game the player who was playing Cyric would have probably been dumped from the group. But Cyric had has always more plot armor than any other character in any novels ever. Somebody has it lock in their minds he makes a great villian...there are wrong.
I disagree with moronic, the whole Cyrinishad thing was a stroke of genius! It would of worked to if...
was not for those darn kids and that dog.
Sorry but that is the level that I see Cyric's villiany at...Scooby Doo level
You are entitled to your opinions but when someone is told some BS reason they can't use their full powers to defend themselves from some moron... then that moron has plot armor +1000. Cyric should have died when he started tangling with Mystra and should have definitly died when he somehow killed her. He is a lousy character that they'll continued protection of has ripped the setting apart as a consistent setting.
That of course is just my opinion and will fully admitt that Cyric is a salvagable character of any invidual...but he has done too much damage to be allowed to continue to exist in the official Realms.
I disagree with moronic, the whole Cyrinishad thing was a stroke of genius! It would of worked to if Cyric did not make the mistake of putting his trust in Fzoul, and Mask.
Serve None Except Bane!!!
The entire "Time of Troubles" should never have happened as it did. Talk about taking a pretty good idea and completely failing in execution. Mystra2's death by Helm was painfully stupid, and both Midnight and Cyric were abysmally stupid characters.
That said, they've never really written the deities well. They've treated them all as DMPCs of the worst sort, huge plot devices with weakly thought out motivations and plans that crumble when a mortal shows up. Gods should be treated as gods, not simplistic caricatures.
Tharizdun, now that was a classy god of madness and evil. His fellow deities genuinely feared him, and they respected his intelligence and power. Cyric could never hold a candle to Tharizdun in a million years.
I disagree with moronic, the whole Cyrinishad thing was a stroke of genius! It would of worked to if...
was not for those darn kids and that dog.
Lol, I was actually going to say that!
I disagree with moronic, the whole Cyrinishad thing was a stroke of genius! It would of worked to if Cyric did not make the mistake of putting his trust in Fzoul, and Mask.
Serve None Except Bane!!!
Spoken like a true Helmite/Tormite...
Scooby dooby doo where are you...;)
I disagree with moronic, the whole Cyrinishad thing was a stroke of genius! It would of worked to if Cyric did not make the mistake of putting his trust in Fzoul, and Mask.
Well, even Fzoul and Mask would not have been so bad, if he wasn't also opposed by two fellow greater deities. That's a lot of opposition, otherwise he could have pulled it off even after reading his own book.
Personally, I've always liked Cyric, though you don't have to look much further than his imprisonment to find a bigger case of forced plot in the game. Ao's edicts without question broke down somewhere along the line, making possible all manner of shinanigans.
However, at the end of the day, people will always back their favourite NPC's, and condemn the rest.
To each their own I suppose, though I do find it a tad irritating when people take such strong opposing positions on fictional characters. Me, I appreciate them all, flaws included, and while I like some more than others, I'd rather see it as good character, than bad plot.
That said, characters can't be blamed for bad plot. Authors hold full sway over Character decisions, and boy have the former screwed over the later more times than I care to count.
-RW
To each their own I suppose, though I do find it a tad irritating when people take such strong opposing positions on fictional characters. Me, I appreciate them all, flaws included, and while I like some more than others, I'd rather see it as good character, than bad plot.
If I could take a moment to try to explain why people take a strong stance on fictional characters...I mean if you understand it maybe you understand it better.
Most people are shaped by real life events. We take this with us everywhere we go even when we go escape reality. True some people don't. Now take Cyric he is your classic stalker of women...personaly my sister was nearly killed by a stalker. Alot of people out there have had even worse siturations with these. And really justice was never served in the case with my sister. So when I read a book that has a similar character to a stalker and read that Mystra is denied the right to protect herself...and when he kills her he gets to live. Suddenly it is not a escape from reallity for me but very much just like RL, because my views are shaped by RL. Which is in my opinion why he must die.
I mean look at most of the villians in the media...most of the one who keep escaping are so outside the realm of what most people have to deal with it is ok if they escape...but when using villians that people have deal with in RL...it is unfulfilling for most people when that villian gets away with it.
Another aspect of RL that makes people hate Cyric is that we have all played games with people who go out of their way to screw everybody over and laugh when they do it. Cyric just so reminds of this type of player.
The fact that he is written like a Scooby-Doo villian just make it even...more disgusting. It is like reading a Scooby-Doo epsisode wher the villian rapes and kills a girl and everyone is laughing at the end and thur out...
I agree the fact that character is badly written does not the characters fault...I think every god in the FR was written badly. But there are other reason to want to see a character die. I don't blame people who thinks he makes a great villian....or think that they are all disturbing for liking the character. I really don't. I merely said this to explain why people want to see Cyric die...perferably horribly at the ends of 100s pointed sticks..well that is the reason why I will advocate his death.
Anyway sorry for getting too serious here.
MYSTRA AND HER CHOSEN SHALL SMITE THE IDIOT GOD!
The orcs rise, from a race who never had any good land, to a race....who is still struggling to acquire the shelter they longed for so much...but one day, we know, that the orcs will establish their promised homeland...(like Dark Arrow Keep for example)
orc orc orc orc orc orc orcs shall smite the idiot god!! I really much prefer Gruumsh kill Cyric instead of Mystra..l....Muhahaha!! I love Gruumsh, since his brutalities are not without cause...He is a god who cares for his orcs, and gave them trials of low intellect and harsh lives, but gave them little power to at least survive the harsh world.
The orcs rise, from a race who never had any good land, to a race....who is still struggling to acquire the shelter they longed for so much...but one day, we know, that the orcs will establish their promised homeland...(like Dark Arrow Keep for example)
not that again anyway a smiley for you
off! And even more bat crazy!I dont think they can kill Cyric. I mean if they could they probably would have, but instead they banished him for a 1000 years. What were they thinking?
Perhaps they thought that if they tried to confront Cyric in battle, one of them (Sune, Tyr, and Amaunator/Lathander, that is) might be slain in the attempt, by some stroke of luck on Cyric's part. Rather than risk harm to themselves, they opted to bind Cyric to his own homeplane, believing it to be a safer, and still beneficial, route. At least, that's as rational as I can picture it, because in my mind those three should have had little difficulty overwhelming Cyric if they set their minds to it.
Are they expecting that after a 1000 years Cyric will mellow out some? If anything he will just be even more
This is one of the reasons the whole "trapped in the Supreme Throne" set-up doesn't work for me. A thousand years is but a few breaths to a deity; perhaps they believed that Cyric's relative "youth" as a god might make the punishment seem more dire. He can still contact his mortal followers, though, so... well, you know where I'm going with this. ;)
This is one of the reasons the whole "trapped in the Supreme Throne" set-up doesn't work for me. A thousand years is but a few breaths to a deity; perhaps they believed that Cyric's relative "youth" as a god might make the punishment seem more dire. He can still contact his mortal followers, though, so... well, you know where I'm going with this. ;)
Except that they haven't really treated the gods truly as deities since at least the Time of Troubles. Ever since then, they've been treated as really powerful but often incompetent NPCs with myopic vision. For those kinds of NPCs, or rather DMPCs, 1000 years is quite a long time.
This is one of the reasons the whole "trapped in the Supreme Throne" set-up doesn't work for me. A thousand years is but a few breaths to a deity; perhaps they believed that Cyric's relative "youth" as a god might make the punishment seem more dire. He can still contact his mortal followers, though, so... well, you know where I'm going with this. ;)
Except that they haven't really treated the gods truly as deities since at least the Time of Troubles. Ever since then, they've been treated as really powerful but often incompetent NPCs with myopic vision. For those kinds of NPCs, or rather DMPCs, 1000 years is quite a long time.
Yes and no. Other times, a millenium has been portrayed as a trifle to a god, such as Bane's pact with Szass Tam. As poorly implemented as that deal was, Bane didn't consider 1000 years to be troublesome. Of course, he was still incompetent for not recognizing Szass Tam's perspective (or for bothering to speak with the zulkir at all), but in this case, the god's implementation and concept of time was skewed based on his long-term goals.
As has been pointed out before the Supreme Throne is the name of his PLane, hes got plenty of room. He can
wherever he wants!This is one of the reasons the whole "trapped in the Supreme Throne" set-up doesn't work for me. A thousand years is but a few breaths to a deity; perhaps they believed that Cyric's relative "youth" as a god might make the punishment seem more dire. He can still contact his mortal followers, though, so... well, you know where I'm going with this. ;)
Except that they haven't really treated the gods truly as deities since at least the Time of Troubles. Ever since then, they've been treated as really powerful but often incompetent NPCs with myopic vision. For those kinds of NPCs, or rather DMPCs, 1000 years is quite a long time.
Yes and no. Other times, a millenium has been portrayed as a trifle to a god, such as Bane's pact with Szass Tam. As poorly implemented as that deal was, Bane didn't consider 1000 years to be troublesome. Of course, he was still incompetent for not recognizing Szass Tam's perspective (or for bothering to speak with the zulkir at all), but in this case, the god's implementation and concept of time was skewed based on his long-term goals.
Maybe Bane doesn't care what Tam's agenda is.
All he saw was a potential Nation to dominate.
Someone or something will screw it up for Tam...
Maybe Bane doesn't care what Tam's agenda is.
All he saw was a potential Nation to dominate.
Someone or something will screw it up for Tam...
Oh, he definitely didn't care to think what Szass Tam might be up to; he was happy enough with vague details.
It's just ironic that he inadvertently gave Szass Tam all the time he needed millenium to plot his (Bane's) destruction; not that his ridiculous goal was going to be achieved. I dont think they can kill Cyric. I mean if they could they probably would have, but instead they banished him for a 1000 years.
This is my favorite theory: Cyric has become too powerful for them to take him down.
Deities become stronger if they do very well with their portfolios and Cyric had just done two masterpieces (tricking a LG greater deity into killing an old ally for lies/deception/trickery/strife/illusion and murdering another greater deity for murder).
This increased his power so much that the others had to act before he could fully digest his energy and put it to dire use against them. They didn't imprison him through an act of superior power, they just pulled a cheap trick through their bigger knowledge on planar fabric and are since they scarred that Cyric will eventually figure out how to simply unknot their lock.
Yes and no. Other times, a millenium has been portrayed as a trifle to a god, such as Bane's pact with Szass Tam. As poorly implemented as that deal was, Bane didn't consider 1000 years to be troublesome. Of course, he was still incompetent for not recognizing Szass Tam's perspective (or for bothering to speak with the zulkir at all), but in this case, the god's implementation and concept of time was skewed based on his long-term goals.
Which is doubly strange given that Bane himself isn't much older than 1,000 years (and already died once during this time). Someone around since the beginning would have made more sense taking 1,000 years as a trifle.
Yes and no. Other times, a millenium has been portrayed as a trifle to a god, such as Bane's pact with Szass Tam. As poorly implemented as that deal was, Bane didn't consider 1000 years to be troublesome. Of course, he was still incompetent for not recognizing Szass Tam's perspective (or for bothering to speak with the zulkir at all), but in this case, the god's implementation and concept of time was skewed based on his long-term goals.
Which is doubly strange given that Bane himself isn't much older than 1,000 years (and already died once during this time). Someone around since the beginning would have made more sense taking 1,000 years as a trifle.
Quite true. Then again, that little scene felt overly forced from beginning to end; "strange" is an understatement, and that not even the worst of it.
Deities become stronger if they do very well with their portfolios and Cyric had just done two masterpieces (tricking a LG greater deity into killing an old ally for lies/deception/trickery/strife/illusion and murdering another greater deity for murder).
As far as I know Cyric had nothing to do with the thing between Tyr and Helm.
As far as I know Cyric had nothing to do with the thing between Tyr and Helm.
I dont think theyve come right out and said it, but it has been hinted at. Cyric is a much more master manipulator than people give him credit for, but Cyric likes it that way!
Quite true. Then again, that little scene felt overly forced from beginning to end; "strange" is an understatement, and that not even the worst of it.
Yeah, it's the scene I disliked the most in the whole trilogy.
A mere mortal drags one of the most powerful greater deities from his divine realm against his will and managed to trap him on the material plane with enough force to at least being able to credibly threat him with harm if he tries to escape.
And even worse is the demand this mortal than makes "Since my magic is currently so terribly weak tell me how to fix it". Sure, after doing this to a greater deity with your magic at it's weakest I will of course restore your magic to full power (and people complain about Cyric being stupid).
I also dislike what this scene means for the things that were not shown, but now must be deducted from their interaction. If Szass could do that much to one of the strongest deities in the pantheon, than he can logically do even more to the weaker deities of the pantheon. Thus if he can hurt Bane, he should be able to hurt a lesser (or demi) deity even more (or maybe even kill). So Szass basically is already a deity in his own right. E.g. if Szass ever needs to make a journey by sea, after doing to Bane what he did to him, he should be able to just summon Umberlee (so much weaker than Bane) and demand that she personally carries him and threaten to destroy her if he get's wet during the trip.
This just screams PowerCreepPowerSeep
As far as I know Cyric had nothing to do with the thing between Tyr and Helm.
I dont think theyve come right out and said it, but it has been hinted at. Cyric is a much more master manipulator than people give him credit for, but Cyric likes it that way!
That is why he is such a Mary Sue. He even over rides others in what they should be good at. It is all due to author fiat.
I mean you are the goddess of lies and illusion...why in all that is logical would you trust a mad god and your 'ally' who is currently in the shape of a sword....? It is just stupid beyond all belief.
I won't even get into the holes of the whole Tymora...Helm...Tyr thing.
He is a genius...but for that to work everyone else has to become a moron....which is why he must die.
I mean you are the goddess of lies and illusion...why in all that is logical would you trust a mad god and your 'ally' who is currently in the shape of a sword....? It is just stupid beyond all belief.
Because as far as Leira was concerned Cyric was not involved at all in her meeting with Mask, who was one of her few allies at this time, and she didn't know anything about Mask posing as a sword either. Also back then Mask was the deity of trickery, so it was him putting his trickery portfolio against her deception to allow Cyric to apply his murder. So should the deity of deception see through the plot of the deity of trickery? Both were equally powerful at this time and Mask just prevailed in this instance.
Similar to the question why the demigod of seers couldn't foresee the doom of dweomerheart despite such divinations being his job (however in this case case it's less mysterious, since the deity to see everything was only a demipower compared to the two greater power to hide everything, thus Cyric/Shar likely found it easy to overpower Savras' portfolio with the respective parts of their portfolio)
AS for the other gods, meh, been there, done that.
Cyric's concept is pretty unique, a mad god hell bent on making every mortal in the planet crazy...
ANd that 1000 years imprisonment, smells REALLY FISHY....I bet WotC is planning on something big for Cyric....Maybe him killing **....whoops, almost spilled the spoiler.
I think Cyric will live on forever in the FR novels...the company seems to need him a lot...He makes a really good villain, which I respect him at.
AS for the other gods, meh, been there, done that.
Cyric's concept is pretty unique, a mad god hell bent on making every mortal in the planet crazy...
ANd that 1000 years imprisonment, smells REALLY FISHY....I bet WotC is planning on something big for Cyric....Maybe him killing **....whoops, almost spilled the spoiler.
I don't know about that...as I said there was very strong hints that they were going to kill him off in a adventure...
Selune should win a major conflict with Shar, diminish Shar's power, and gain the portfolio of magic.
Bane should give Szass a serious smackdown, and we should learn that all the stuff that Szass supposedly did to Bane was just a ruse by Bane to pump up Szass's ego.
The Simbul should give birth to a son, who in turn becomes Selune's new magister (and never a deity or even a demigod).
Mask should be revived in a complex turn of events that further weaken Shar, with the help of Cale's son and Drasek Riven.
Myrkul should return to his former power, kill Kelemvor and retake his throne.
Asmodeus should be killed by Cyric, with his power and portfolios absorbed.
Fixed it for ya.I could get behind everything else you said except Myrkul offing Kelemvor, I kinda like Kelemvor, of course I liked Myrkul as well, but I can see a spot for both of them on the Pantheon. Kelemvor could stay judge of the dead, and Myrkul could be the god of Death itself, or perhaps a darker aspect of Death, such as Undead or Necromancy.
Asmodeus should be killed by Cyric, with his power and portfolios absorbed.
That's less of a "fix" and more of a "break it even further" outcome. Cyric and Kelemvor should both be ditched and quickly forgotten. Neither one of them makes the Realms better.
Personally i dont see a need for Asmodeus in there, he worked perfectly fine as an Arch-Devil, there was realy no reason for him to become a god. And really they pretty much had evil gods covered already, I dont think he really brings anything to the Pantheon as a whole.
I disagree, I think they both add something to the Realms. As far as evil gods go i think Cyric does all right, and Kel's judge of the dead thing is an interesting concept.
Personally i dont see a need for Asmodeus in there, he worked perfectly fine as an Arch-Devil, there was realy no reason for him to become a god. And really they pretty much had evil gods covered already, I dont think he really brings anything to the Pantheon as a whole.
Frankly, I think WotC is just Christianizing the gods because pagan worship isn't easy to understand in the same way as monotheistic worship. Of the good deities, we have lawful good Torm now as the "Father" or head of the "trinity" of deities. Asmodeus as not only the prince of devils but also now the god of "sin" (a strange shoehorn concept for the Realms). Cyric pushed in as the god of madness, lies, and illusion. How often have we really heard about the other goodly deities? Does Sune actually do anything? Does Oghma? Does Selune? Not really, at least we hear next to nothing about their activities.
Furthermore, they got rid of two eminently cool deities who fit the older polytheist model far better: Myrkul and Bhaal. Myrkul's servants were usually evil but often they were just mysteriously creepy and complex, and to some degree they were "included" in society in the Realms as a dark but necessary part. Bhaal's worshippers were mostly assassins, but the designers in 2E thought that was too evil in game and got rid of the whole class in order to make for a nicer game (at least on face value, but it never worked that way). Terrible change.
So now we have an allegory for Lucifer (Asmodeus) and Satan (Cyric), but neither are really up to the task because they don't fit well with the rest of the gods. Torm isn't quite a "Father" deity, but he's the "best" that lawful good has to offer and they're certainly molding him that way. The only thing they'd have to do is give Torm a mortal son who is a quasi-demigod of sorts, and you'd have an allegory for Jesus.
In fact, I suspect that this is something we might see in a novel in the near future. It would make sense with other things the designers have done. But it really all ruins the feel of the Realms as far as a truly polytheist world IMO.
I find this topic to be getting strange...
Strange? It might be vearing off from the topic of killing Cyric, but I dont think its strange, not yet any way.
Im just trying to stick up for Cyric, someones got to right?
As for the Christinazation of the gods, I think Jorunhast does have a point there, there are definitely Christian influences there, but there are also Babylonian, Greek and Roman, Norse, and other real world relegions in there. With 4e theyve definitely been trying to unify the various Pantheons into one, no more elven pantheon, or gnome or what have you, its just one pantheon now.
I find this topic to be getting strange...
Darn, even Cyric's got plot armor in the fourth wall.
I'm just happy they made Gruumsh kill someone.
If I could take a moment to try to explain why people take a strong stance on fictional characters...I mean if you understand it maybe you understand it better.
I'll go through this post in parts, and I apologize for the delay. I'd forgotten I'd posted here until just browsing again.
Most people are shaped by real life events. We take this with us everywhere we go even when we go escape reality. True some people don't.
I agree and disagree. Everyone is shaped by their individual life events/experiences. We all carry them with us, and they shape opinion and disposition. However, one who is truly open minded can better separate personal position from outside position. They can look for example at something like slavery, **** or murder and understand that while they are considered vile and evil by most standards, such concepts are directly related to society and stigma, and thus can separate themselves from someone practicing them in any form.
Now take Cyric he is your classic stalker of women...personaly my sister was nearly killed by a stalker. Alot of people out there have had even worse siturations with these. And really justice was never served in the case with my sister.
Sadly, this is an instance where the subject can't really be delved into in detail on these forums. I've known several victims of assault and ****, both via relationships, and within my immediate family. It can be frustrating for varied reasons, and while I have varying opinions on both the concept of justice, and the notions of things such as ****/stalking, it isn't what this thread was/is really about.
So when I read a book that has a similar character to a stalker and read that Mystra is denied the right to protect herself...and when he kills her he gets to live. Suddenly it is not a escape from reallity for me but very much just like RL, because my views are shaped by RL. Which is in my opinion why he must die.
The problem however is coming in with you projecting real world scenarios, and experiences onto characters that are outside of the realm of laws. The fact that you hate him is the mark of a good character. After all, if he attacked people with pink slippers, and played a kazoo while throwing confetti during a fight, you might begin questioning what you were reading. :P
Cyric is not the person your sister ran into in real life. While he has done things one might consider despicable, he also holds a portfolio that requires him to do as such. I'm not saying that Mystra should not be allowed to defend herself, but I am saying that Cyric was not wrong in what he did.
To draw upon your example, it would be akin to taking your sisters stalker to court, when the law supported stalking, and condoned assault. You'd be laughed out of the courtroom. You may not like his actions, which is as I said a sign of good character, but he acted well within the rules set down for him by Ao.
I mean look at most of the villians in the media...most of the one who keep escaping are so outside the realm of what most people have to deal with it is ok if they escape...but when using villians that people have deal with in RL...it is unfulfilling for most people when that villian gets away with it.
It's often the ones you can relate to the most, that stand out the most. It doesn't do the world justice to have shining examples of impossible good, without true "evil" to oppose them. The Zhentarim and Red Wizards were always portrayed as iconic, depraved individuals, however in novelization they were always made out to be Key-stone baddies at best. This IMO is worse for the world, than drawing in the reader by making them hate the ones they are reading about. It leaves a bitter taste in the mouth of the reader, and makes the world a laughing stock to outside sources.
Another aspect of RL that makes people hate Cyric is that we have all played games with people who go out of their way to screw everybody over and laugh when they do it. Cyric just so reminds of this type of player.
But the fact remains that this type of person still exists. It adds a level of realism to the world by including them. Sweeping such things under the proverbial rug is a slight against those who enjoy the realms.
That said, there are also those who take things to the extreme in the other direction. The concept of extreme good is even more alien IMO, yet there are those who still attempt it. I find such character far more disgusting than the evil ones, as they are the ones who don't follow the conventional rules of intelligent species.
The fact that he is written like a Scooby-Doo villian just make it even...more disgusting. It is like reading a Scooby-Doo epsisode wher the villian rapes and kills a girl and everyone is laughing at the end and thur out...
Touching back on my prior comment, I find that the "good" characters are far more "scooby-doo" than anything Cyric has done. Also, while I can again understand that unfortunate events transpired for you and your family, I feel that you're still projecting such pain onto the character, and in turn using him as a focus for your ire for the perceived lack of injustice done to you and yours. You see his victories, as the victory of your sisters assailant all over again, and that more than his actions anger you.
IMO anyway.
I agree the fact that character is badly written does not the characters fault...I think every god in the FR was written badly. But there are other reason to want to see a character die. I don't blame people who thinks he makes a great villian....or think that they are all disturbing for liking the character. I really don't. I merely said this to explain why people want to see Cyric die...perferably horribly at the ends of 100s pointed sticks..well that is the reason why I will advocate his death.
Anyway sorry for getting too serious here.
No apologies necessary, and I'm glad you realize there are contrived scenarios amongst all of the gods. But, I don't think you need to call for the death of one, based on the experiences of your life. Killing Cyric won't bring justice to your sisters stalker, nor right the percieved wrongs of the world we live in. It is still a fictional realm, and nothing done there affects that which transpires here.
In reality, people will always see evil triumphing over good in life, and while some like to escape to a reality where good always wins, others find it forced, and become more engrossed in stories that are both well thought out, and believable.
-RW
P.S. I'll edit this after. I realize there are probably spelling and grammatical errors, but it was a bit of a hurried post. Apologies.
Now truthfuly the FR earlier novels went too far in the portraying evil as incompetent...but personaly I think the have gone to far in the other direction of portraying good as too incompetent...and for me atleast Cyric is the poster child of this. As in he benefits the most from this good being incompetent.
While people would like to see good always win, in reality, they'll always see Evil triumphing.
-RW
I think in real life, theres more shades of gray than actual good vs evil. I try to use that in my own games, I like it when the players arent sure what they should do or if they start having second thoughts about what they are doing, realizing perhaps too late that theyre on the wrong side. I also prefer evil that doesnt realize its evil, like the Shades. I dont really think that they see themselves as being evil. They want to take over the world for the betterment of the planet. If only the rest of the world could understand that.
-RW
a few years later he tried to run for congressman again while he was at prison...and won by a landslide....
some few years after his term ended, he called his cousin (who's and ex-prisonman for robbing a bank) to run for Mayor in Dapitan...and the guy won...3 years before now, to control certain towns in the province his cousin Mayor Jalosos elected a dog in certain towns for Mayor..and the dog won as Mayor...and I'm not speaking dog in metaphor.
Maguindanao massacre..
meh..pretty much...evil always wins.
Not to jump on the bandwagon.. but the entire Time of Troubles/Avatar trilogy? Was terribly written... Gods portrayed as single minded, idiotic beings of retarded levels of power.. Pathetic characters.. and the *blam!* *blam!* *blam!* of a character that is Cyric, who should never have become a god in the first place... Along with his scooby-doo awsomeness.
Oh sure. go ahead and jump on the bandwagon! Personaly I rather liked the Avatar Trilogy, its one of my top favs, although I havnt read many of the novels, maybe 30 or so. I though the follow up novels, Prince of Lies, and Crucible were even better, of course thats just me.
I do think its fitting that the gods were portrayed as being very single minded. The way I see it, they would have a very narrow view of the world, Bane would see it as all slaves to him, Talos would see it as things to blow up, etc. I agree though that gods should not be running around mucking it up with mortals, but in the context of the Time of Troubles it did make some sense. Really im not sure why they even did a Time of Troubles, 1e was pretty much identical to 2e, so they really didnt need to change anything. Eh who knows? I guess they just thought it would be cool. Still all in all I thought it was pretty interesting, and the series pretty much transversed the Realms, taking place in the Dalelands, Tantras, Waterdeep, and points in between. I actualy wished they would of focused more on the gods, I mean it seems like at least one of them, other than Mystra, would be trying to set things right.
Still its definitely not to everyones liking, and they definitely shook alot of stuff up with those novels, so I can understand people not liking them. Just curious though I2edshift, did you not like the writing style itself, or was it the whole gods walking the Realms that you didnt like?
BTW welcome aboard!
Oh sure. go ahead and jump on the bandwagon! Personaly I rather liked the Avatar Trilogy, its one of my top favs, although I havnt read many of the novels, maybe 30 or so. I though the follow up novels, Prince of Lies, and Crucible were even better, of course thats just me.
I do think its fitting that the gods were portrayed as being very single minded. The way I see it, they would have a very narrow view of the world, Bane would see it as all slaves to him, Talos would see it as things to blow up, etc. I agree though that gods should not be running around mucking it up with mortals, but in the context of the Time of Troubles it did make some sense. Really im not sure why they even did a Time of Troubles, 1e was pretty much identical to 2e, so they really didnt need to change anything. Eh who knows? I guess they just thought it would be cool. Still all in all I thought it was pretty interesting, and the series pretty much transversed the Realms, taking place in the Dalelands, Tantras, Waterdeep, and points in between. I actualy wished they would of focused more on the gods, I mean it seems like at least one of them, other than Mystra, would be trying to set things right.
Still its definitely not to everyones liking, and they definitely shook alot of stuff up with those novels, so I can understand people not liking them. Just curious though I2edshift, did you not like the writing style itself, or was it the whole gods walking the Realms that you didnt like?
BTW welcome aboard!
More of the writing style itself, I had no problems with the gods being with mortals and all the events that happened because of that event, it was clearly explained in a believeable way and made sense. It was more of the rather boring characters and uninteresting writing to me. After reading around 100 fantasy novels, The Avatar Trilogy was just... bleh... There were a few parts that I did enjoy, but only a handful out of the entire series... My problem with the gods themselves is that, while there single-mindedness does make sense, they are portrayed as simple and almost unintelligent.. Especially when you consider who or what they are. Something like...
"You have insulted my honer, now we must fight to the death!"
"Well, having been double-dog dared, I cannot back down!"
Thank you btw, the maturity level on these boards is light years farther along than any other forum i've seen.
I do think its fitting that the gods were portrayed as being very single minded. The way I see it, they would have a very narrow view of the world, Bane would see it as all slaves to him, Talos would see it as things to blow up, etc. I agree though that gods should not be running around mucking it up with mortals, but in the context of the Time of Troubles it did make some sense. Really im not sure why they even did a Time of Troubles, 1e was pretty much identical to 2e, so they really didnt need to change anything. Eh who knows? I guess they just thought it would be cool. Still all in all I thought it was pretty interesting, and the series pretty much transversed the Realms, taking place in the Dalelands, Tantras, Waterdeep, and points in between. I actualy wished they would of focused more on the gods, I mean it seems like at least one of them, other than Mystra, would be trying to set things right.
The thing is...there is two way to do gods in my opinion that is interesting. But they mixed the two into a unholy abomnition that is not interesting.
1) Have the gods be narrow viewed and simple. They are like a force of nature...or a force of a concept or a ideal. To me that is unkillable. To quote a movie..."Ideals are bulletproof." To put this view into a Realmslore...to me as long as there are drow(or any creature) who seek redemption and the light...then Elistraee is unkillable. Because it is not so much her that is the key...it is the belief and conviction of her followers why she exist.
2) You can treat them as full personalities who just happen to be gods of x. Sure you can kill them...but they should be treated as the centuries old deities that they are...with the life experience and all that.
Me I perfer the first option because it is much more interesting to defeat that kinda of god because it relies on destroying the god's power base. It is more than just going up to the god's homeplane and hitting him or her over the head with maybe a artifact. It also keeps the gods from becoming silly Highlander style immortals.
Anyway just my two cents.
Thank you btw, the maturity level on these boards is light years farther along than any other forum i've seen.
OH we definitely have our off days around here!
It also keeps the gods from becoming silly Highlander style immortals.
IM actualy liking the sound of that! I actualy used to use Highlander rules for my Realms games. Not with the gods, but with Chosen. Chosen in my games were essentialy immortals like from Highlander, and the PCs were all chosen, they just didnt necesarily know it. Looking back on it, it was kinda crazy, but we all had fun, which is what really counts.
It also keeps the gods from becoming silly Highlander style immortals.
IM actualy liking the sound of that! I actualy used to use Highlander rules for my Realms games. Not with the gods, but with Chosen. Chosen in my games were essentialy immortals like from Highlander, and the PCs were all chosen, they just didnt necesarily know it. Looking back on it, it was kinda crazy, but we all had fun, which is what really counts.
Sigh...I know I should not have put a Highlander reference in that post...as it drew your entire attention too...instead of my views on gods in a fantasey setting...sigh
I'll put in a vote that Cyric needs to die, but I would like the killer to be one of the Gods that has gotten very little press. I still think that Sune owes him one from when he destroyed the love between Kelemvor and Mystra, and she strikes me as the kinda spiteful goddess who would totally hold a grudge.
I like this idea. There's a darker side to love: jealousy, vindictiveness, and spite. Why should Sune be limited to only the noble side of love?
I could see Sune even resurrecting Bhaal, providing him with a weapon, and sending him after Cyric. Although Bhaal was an assassin, good assassins know that emotions interfere with business. Cyric has brought hatred into the office of Murder, and that's an affront to Bhaal (and Sune). For his many acts of hatred and viciousness, and his complete lack of love and affection toward anything, Sune might deem Cyric no longer worthy of existence.
Sigh...I know I should not have put a Highlander reference in that post...as it drew your entire attention too...instead of my views on gods in a fantasey setting...sigh
Sorry man, I admit I was drawn to the Highlander bit, but that doesnt mean that I disregarded the rest of your post. That just reminded me of the old Realms game I used to run back in the day. And yes I am a huge Highlander fan.
BUt as for the rest of your comments, I do agree, and you said it perfectly, and I didnt have nothing to add, so I didnt. Sorry man i didnt mean to just blow off your comments there.
I'll put in a vote that Cyric needs to die, but I would like the killer to be one of the Gods that has gotten very little press. I still think that Sune owes him one from when he destroyed the love between Kelemvor and Mystra, and she strikes me as the kinda spiteful goddess who would totally hold a grudge.
I like this idea. There's a darker side to love: jealousy, vindictiveness, and spite. Why should Sune be limited to only the noble side of love?
I could see Sune even resurrecting Bhaal, providing him with a weapon, and sending him after Cyric. Although Bhaal was an assassin, good assassins know that emotions interfere with business. Cyric has brought hatred into the office of Murder, and that's an affront to Bhaal (and Sune). For his many acts of hatred and viciousness, and his complete lack of love and affection toward anything, Sune might deem Cyric no longer worthy of existence.
Lets say for the sake of argument that Sune has the power to resurect Bhaal, and that she has any say in who is or isnt worthy to hold a divine office. It would still take a lot more than Bhaal and Sune to off The One and the All!!!!
Sigh...I know I should not have put a Highlander reference in that post...as it drew your entire attention too...instead of my views on gods in a fantasey setting...sigh
Sorry man, I admit I was drawn to the Highlander bit, but that doesnt mean that I disregarded the rest of your post. That just reminded me of the old Realms game I used to run back in the day. And yes I am a huge Highlander fan.
BUt as for the rest of your comments, I do agree, and you said it perfectly, and I didnt have nothing to add, so I didnt. Sorry man i didnt mean to just blow off your comments there.
I understand...I was half joking anyway...about being upset. When I use smiley faces it usualy means I am kidding. I should probably put that in my sig. so people would know.
Anyway we are good.
Lets say for the sake of argument that Sune has the power to resurect Bhaal, and that she has any say in who is or isnt worthy to hold a divine office. It would still take a lot more than Bhaal and Sune to off The One and the All!!!!
1) It is possible for Sune to do so...though I think a better idea would be to find a new murderer to take the mantle. Not because I think BHaal is aweful or anything. I want to see a God of Assassins that is more amorale cold type of person type than the HI I AM MR. EVIL...HOW ARE YOU. type
2) Also as your boy(Cyric) as unfortunaly proven time after time is not so much about the having the ability...if the authors like you enough gosh darn you can do it. And I don't see how anyone can say no to a hot red head....sorry...back to point...it (as they will have it) as nothing to do with being 'worthy' of your position...it is about brute force power. And Sune does have some serious muscles...mmm...(stop it)...I meant power
I like this idea. There's a darker side to love: jealousy, vindictiveness, and spite. Why should Sune be limited to only the noble side of love?
I like to portray even the good gods with their wicked streaks, and evil deities with their positive sides. Spiteful Sune sounds like a very entertaining character; might have to try that one out some time. It might actually make for an interesting divine clash, as Sharess watches Sune embrace a cruel side that she had only ever seen in Shar before. Might be fun to have Shar nurture Sune's "wounded heart", and have Sharess attempt to snap Sune out of it. Sune might be a powerful goddess, but she's capricious and could be led astray by a more cunning, predatory goddess like Shar.
Actually, change that. I forgot I had Shar slay Sharess during the Spellplague in my game, and had Lliira absorb her divine spark and portfolios. So, maybe Lliira can come to Sune's aid.
Although Bhaal was an assassin, good assassins know that emotions interfere with business. Cyric has brought hatred into the office of Murder, and that's an affront to Bhaal (and Sune).
Hell, Bhaal would want to slay Cyric regardless of that. Cyric was the one to bump him off, after all.
1) It is possible for Sune to do so...though I think a better idea would be to find a new murderer to take the mantle. Not because I think BHaal is aweful or anything. I want to see a God of Assassins that is more amorale cold type of person type than the HI I AM MR. EVIL...HOW ARE YOU. type
2) Also as your boy(Cyric) as unfortunaly proven time after time is not so much about the having the ability...if the authors like you enough gosh darn you can do it. And I don't see how anyone can say no to a hot red head....sorry...back to point...it (as they will have it) as nothing to do with being 'worthy' of your position...it is about brute force power. And Sune does have some serious muscles...mmm...(stop it)...I meant power
Excellent points John. Sune could pretty much have her way with Cyric or any other god for that matter. I do admit Cyric does make a lousy Assassin god, for supposudly having lies and intruige in his portfolios the guys not to subtle. Id like to see someone sneaky like Mask or even a resurected Bhaal as the god of Assassins. Of course I think Cyric should stay on being god of Insanity, I dont think anybody could take his place there.
In my own games Zehir is actually an aspect of Bhaal, so I havnt offed him in my own game.
Hell, Bhaal would want to slay Cyric regardless of that. Cyric was the one to bump him off, after all.
Definitely. I was just adding an angle to explain why Sune might revive Bhaal.