Anyway, I'm trying to run a campaign in Imaskar at the height of its power, and so far, it's been going quite well. However, two of my players wish to travel to Kara-Tur; to be more specific, they want to go to Kozakura. I talked them out of Shou Lung, because as far as I know, it didn't exist until after Imaskar was destroyed. The problem I am faced with, though, is whether or not Kozakura exists yet. They would prefer to go to one of the "Japanese" regions of Kara-Tur to pick up the samurai class (I told them they could do that anywhere, but they feel it's more authentic this way), like Wa or the nation that is this thread's title, but I'm not too well-versed in the histories of the Eastern nations, beacuse I focused on Faerun alone. The campaign takes place in -3986 DR, in case that helps.
I can't seem to find any decent information regarding this matter, and any help would be much appreciated.
At that period in time, humans may not have even been on KozaKura!
From everything I've read, it looks to me as if the Korobokuru (Eastern Dwarves) where native to the islands, and Han (Lung) from the mainland migrated over, mostly down from Koryo.
The Eastern lands at the time of the Imaskar Empire were completely barbaric and uncivilized. In my homebrew material I have a few pre-human cultures knocking about (an Ogre Kingdom in Chukei, for intance), but the humans were basically hunter-gatherers still in that region.
Sorry.
However, you ARE the DM, so you can say ANYTHING you want in YOUR Realms, so I would just say go for it and have the culutres on Wa and Kozakura pre-dating that of Shou-Lung. In fact, you could even spin it in such a way that it was the Korobukuru that took the lands away from the humans, driving them from the Island... only to arrive again centuries later to re-establish human supremacey. :D
Thanks for the info, though. Normally, I like to adhere to the published material as closely as possible, but I think I can work something out, like proto-feudalism or something where the entire culture and its traditions are just beginning to emerge. This should be interesting.
Before their were Daimyos, there were individual Warlords who held sway in a region - run with that.
Imaskar seems to have been the first great human civilisation on Faerun/Kara-Tur.It's my theory that the Koryo peninsula and the Kozakura and Wa islands were settled by the Han people migrating from Chukei, after the destruction of Kuo Meilan, from early Shou Lung history, after even Anok-Imaskar fell.
Of course, who could say what else lived in these lands at this time? (Markus, probably.) Perhaps Spirit Folk are there have a suspiciously similar culture, or the Korobokuru. Or maybe Hobgoblins, they seem like feudal Japanese culture would fit well. It would be quite a surprise to your players, when the samurai raises his helmet/mask to reveal a hobgoblin. :D
Or there's time-travel. And the Imaskari were masters of portals and travel to other worlds - they went to Egypt and Mesopotamia, why not go to actual Japan? :D (You might have the same history problem, I'm not sure how the years line up.) Or just fudge it.
The second set of Mulan had a vaguer description, something about city-states and agriculture. It's a bit harder to pin down, but seems to refer to Mesopotamia, where the Imaskari would have stolen the Sumerians/Babylonians who became the Untherites. Again, the gods and culture supports this, but again, they're not limited to Earth either
It's strongly implied that they came from Earth, but it's mostly a fan-interpretation. It's still possible that these peoples came from some other world, just one that has close replicas of Egypt and Mesopotamia. Which raises the question of where those peoples came from, and so on. Ultimately, it has to be Earth as the prime originator of these cultures. (Because of course, Earth exists in the multiverse, since Elminster and Ed Greenwood are good friends. True fact.)
Stargate must have been popular at the time.
This doesn't explain the other RW analogues in the Realms, like Kozakura itself. We have no source stating that these peoples came from some other world. I prefer convergent evolution. ;)
Ergo, the Fey Spirit beings of early Kara-Tur might not have wanted to bread with such primitive peoples. Then again, it could be the very reason why they became so advanced so quickly (although I blame that more on the Shou Interlopers/Conquerors).
I'm just not seeing anything in canon that goes back before the Kukubukoro, except, perhaps, the Maraloi, but I have them placed in the Ama Basin before the Sundering (which changed the climate and drove them way).
If you want, you can use the early Gugistani - The Kingdom of Guge is ancient, and has several different groups ruling (and conquering) the place. The last known group were the Gugari - Mountain Spiritfolk - but predating them were the Maviddi. The Gugari I'm guessing first came into power in the region during the Anok-Imaskar occupation, so that means the Maviddi lived their around the time period you are playing in!
Not much is known about the Maviddi, beyond the fact that they were "Half-Elven in nature", and that they like to live in fortresses that were partially underground (like Anthills).
Homebrew Maviddi/Guge Lore:
Show
Now, in my own Homebrew lore for the Kara-Tur Netbook project (and perhaps a CK Compendium article if there ever is another one), I have it where a clan of Dark Elves were lead to the east by a Chosen of Eilistraee, where they were told to bread with the local primitive humans for a least one generation. Not knowing why, but not wanting to go against the will of the Gods (this particular group of Illythiiri still venerated the Seldarine), they did as they were told, and settled on the Katakoro Plateau and bread with humans (of both Lung and Ang stock), creating a distinct race of 'half-Elves' (as per the canon source).
A few years later, when the Descent Curse was visited upon all Dark Elves, turning them into Drow, the tribe was turned as well... but the children of the new generation were unaffected - they remained Half-Drow (Crinti) and were able to tolerate the light. These younglings built mighty fortresses that were both above the ground and below to accommodate their Elders, and for long years they lived thusly in peace with the local Mountain and Forest spirits.
But when the Imaskar Empire Fell, and Anok-Imaskar arose from it's ashes to the east, the lands of the Katakoro Plateau fell under the sway of the evil Shou-Imaskar Emperors, and the power-hungry Shou invaders bread with the mighty Spirit beings of the mountains, in hopes of increasing their own greatness. These new beings - the Mountain Spiritfolk as we know them - were cruel and twisted, and treated the local humans - whom the enslaved - as mere chattel for their wimsys.
The Maviddi, on the other hand, rebelled against their Gugari 'Masters', and threw off the yoke of the Anok-Imaskar Empire. The soldiers of the Empire hunted them down, and one by one the fortresses fell until at last only Tsaparang remained - the last and mightest fortress of them all. The Maviddi managed to hold off the siege for eight long years, countering Imaskar magic and hordes of warriors thrown at their walls, but in the end it, too, fell. When the invaders finally breached the wall, they were syurprised to find that the Maviddi had stolen victory from them even in the end - over 5000 Half-Elves were found dead, having killed themselves rather then face wearing Imaskari chains.
But it is said... in dark taverns with hushed whispers... that at certain times of the year you can still see lights in Tsaparang... when the people hiding in the southern forests come home to dance and to cry, to honor their dead.
A few years later, when the Descent Curse was visited upon all Dark Elves, turning them into Drow, the tribe was turned as well... but the children of the new generation were unaffected - they remained Half-Drow (Crinti) and were able to tolerate the light. These younglings built mighty fortresses that were both above the ground and below to accommodate their Elders, and for long years they lived thusly in peace with the local Mountain and Forest spirits.
But when the Imaskar Empire Fell, and Anok-Imaskar arose from it's ashes to the east, the lands of the Katakoro Plateau fell under the sway of the evil Shou-Imaskar Emperors, and the power-hungry Shou invaders bread with the mighty Spirit beings of the mountains, in hopes of increasing their own greatness. These new beings - the Mountain Spiritfolk as we know them - were cruel and twisted, and treated the local humans - whom the enslaved - as mere chattel for their wimsys.
The Maviddi, on the other hand, rebelled against their Gugari 'Masters', and threw off the yoke of the Anok-Imaskar Empire. The soldiers of the Empire hunted them down, and one by one the fortresses fell until at last only Tsaparang remained - the last and mightest fortress of them all. The Maviddi managed to hold off the siege for eight long years, countering Imaskar magic and hordes of warriors thrown at their walls, but in the end it, too, fell. When the invaders finally breached the wall, they were syurprised to find that the Maviddi had stolen victory from them even in the end - over 5000 Half-Elves were found dead, having killed themselves rather then face wearing Imaskari chains.
But it is said... in dark taverns with hushed whispers... that at certain times of the year you can still see lights in Tsaparang... when the people hiding in the southern forests come home to dance and to cry, to honor their dead.
I've been getting what little info I can from Lost Empires of Faerun, questionably-accurate internet sources and some excerpts from various source books. No store in my town carries anything but the most recent 3.5 books and the 4.0 ones, so it's not easy to find all the info I need. Downloading helps, but I'm still not sure which books will help the most. I suppose it doesn't really matter, though, because the campaign has been going smoothly and no one has noticed that I've filled in some blank spots with my own ideas due to lack of accurate info. Plus, all the PCs are elans, so they can probably wait a few centuries or so for the culture to develop to the desired level, I suppose. Hell, one of them is even close to devising a pretty feasible immortality ritual.
So, with all the information so far, what would be a reasonable period for the culture to reach a point close to the Kara-Tur we know? Putting aside the fact that I can decide it's good enough right now, I'm guessing somewhere around -1887 DR or so would probably do, which is the beginning of the second age of Shou Lung, if i'm not mistaken.
Lost Empires Of Faerun has the most. You've got that, of course.
Underdark - the section of Deep Imaskar mainly, if you want to backtrack some lore.
Ed Bonny's left-out bits from LEoF, here:
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/leof_ipl.htm
Powers & Pantheons is an old sourcebook about the deities of FR, part of a trilogy with Faiths & Avatars and Demihuman Deities. I think it introduced the Mulan-come-from-another-world idea and the Imaskari, though it doesn't offer a lot about the Imaskari themselves.
Grand History Of The Realms has a bit of history.
Elder Evils with the Pandorym creature.
And there's the novels, Darkvision, and I think it's Sentinelspire?
I just looked at the Pandorym entry in Elder Evils, and it said something about the Imaskari comitting genocide. I don't remember them doing anything like that, but then again, I never read Darkvision, so I don't know for sure.
And there's the novels, Darkvision, and I think it's Sentinelspire?
You mean Stardeep?
As for additional 'Imaskar' sources, I'd recommend Daniel Rosenquist's compilation of published lore here.
(Personally, I think this is a bit of enemy propaganda, probably by the Mulhorandi.)
* Atheism being an impossibilty in FR.
You mean Stardeep?
Yeah, Stardeep. Was there another novel? I recall hearing of one, I thought it was Sentinelspire.
* Atheism being an impossibilty in FR.
Heh. Try telling that to all the languishing souls in the Wall of the Faithless. I knew about their antitheistic outlook but, assuming it's not just propaganda, I was not aware of how far they took it.
EDIT: I'd like to thank everyone who has provided information here. I've gone over a lot of it since making this thread, looked some things up, downloaded new books (well, new to me, anyway), cross-referenced and revised a lot of crap to fit into my campaign, and I think it's going to turn out pretty well. I've decided that Kara-Tur will start showing the earliest, most vague signs of traditional Japanese culture around roughly -3400 DR (until I do a little more research, anyway; I may have to make it earlier, but only time will tell) and reach a suitable point for the campaign at -2100 to -1900, with full development at -150.
Yeah, Stardeep. Was there another novel? I recall hearing of one, I thought it was Sentinelspire.
Darkvision and Stardeep were the novels I thought you were referring to.
This doesn't explain the other RW analogues in the Realms, like Kozakura itself. We have no source stating that these peoples came from some other world. I prefer convergent evolution. ;)
Considering that "Wa" is Japanese for "harmony", I really don't see much of a problem in your thinking.
Now, working together and using his excellent suggestions, we have determined that there is a indegenous group of Oriental-like peoples in K-T thousands of years ago - simple hunter-gatherers that lived along the Sea-coasts and rivers. This group is called the Lung.
There was also a group that travelled from an alternate prime world, after a massive sphere-wide disaster - these would be the Shou. I have it where their Overgod - the Celestial Emperor - split himself into 12 equal parts (each becoming a greater God) and lead 12 seperate groups from that world to colonize others (being a clever Overgod, he didn't want to take any chances, so he maximized the odds of his people's survival that way).
With each group also travelled a portion of gods from that world, so that not any one world got ALL of that world's original Pantheon. In fact, the 'missing gods' from each group were quickly replaced with native gods from the worlds they migrated to - often being known under the names of the gods the Shou left behind (so some are the real-thing, whilst others are just operating under assumed names). That part - the religous aspect - is all me, and BRJ hasn't made his wishes known to me in that regard.
The Shou arrived in the Taan (Hordelnads) near the entrance to the Cave of a Thousand Gods. Their ruling class were highly magical (just like the Imaskari), and quickly subdued the Tuigan barbarians in the area - thus eliminating a potential threat to Imaskar's northern border and perpetuating an immediate alliance between the two.
The new Shou arrivals found it easier to just become part of the already-existing Imaskari Empire and simply bide their time, living for the most part in the then-fertile Quoya River Basin. They felt that they could add the Imaskari's knowledge to their own, and eventually either break-away or take them over. The Imaskari, of course, felt much the same way.
Things happened, history moves forward, a couple of disasters befall (the destruction of the Quoya region and the fall of Imaskar-proper to the Mulan Gods), and the Shou arise anew in their own Empire, naming it Anok-Imaskar (in their language 'Anok' means 'Greater'). Some Imaskari join their ranks, seeking to avoid destruction at the hands of the Mulan Pantheons (the Shou kept NO Mulan slaves - their's were all of Lung and Tuigan stock). Other Imaskari fled underground, or into the west. Some stayed behind - the southern portion of Imaskar was not completely destoyed at this time. The Great Askari Lake was vaporized, cutting off the water supply to the lower lands, but the clever Archmage Governor of Raurin devised a way of continuing the flow of the mighty Athis River, and kept the lower portion of Imaskar fertile for another 2500 years! (refer to the Desert of Desolation modules to find lore on what happened to those survivor states).
Anyhow... I digress. The bottom line is that the Shou were indeed interlopers, but NOT from Earth (and I even go so far as to hint that some of these may have travelled to our own Earth, which is why the cultural similarities). The Lung are from Toril, but were very primitive during the Time Period we are talking here.
If anyone had those OA classes and cultural aspects, it would have been the Shou living to the NE of the Imaskar Empire - who also just happen to be part of the Empire and perfectly ripe for you to take advantage of in your game. If you are running it during the 'Middle Kingdoms' period, the Shou would be the Upper Kingdom on the GHotR maps.
I figured this would be the best place to put this, but if not, please let me know and I'll move it.
Anyway, I'm trying to run a campaign in Imaskar at the height of its power, and so far, it's been going quite well. However, two of my players wish to travel to Kara-Tur; to be more specific, they want to go to Kozakura. I talked them out of Shou Lung, because as far as I know, it didn't exist until after Imaskar was destroyed. The problem I am faced with, though, is whether or not Kozakura exists yet. They would prefer to go to one of the "Japanese" regions of Kara-Tur to pick up the samurai class (I told them they could do that anywhere, but they feel it's more authentic this way), like Wa or the nation that is this thread's title, but I'm not too well-versed in the histories of the Eastern nations, beacuse I focused on Faerun alone. The campaign takes place in -3986 DR, in case that helps.
I can't seem to find any decent information regarding this matter, and any help would be much appreciated.
Wow. That's like trying to find a Knight Templar during the Early Roman Empire.
The early forms of samurai were actually farmers that can actually fight, and not with katana but the predecessor tachi sword and spears.