So, I just bought Sacrifice of the Widow from empik.com.
And I'd like to make a write-up for Halisstra in her new form.
What do you think she could be? A mix of a drider and tanar'ri? Or something else?
I really need feedback.
I would say you have it pretty much right--give her the best of both and leave out the bad.
She has no stats because none of those novels ever happened.
I didn't like the whole "let's off as many deities that people LOVE that we can" philosophy.
I've read the first 2 novels in that trilogy.
Yeah. The series as a whole wasn't horrible--just the fact that it was part of a bigger picture that the majority of us never wanted to see.
that novel never happened, neither did the war of the spider queen.
you know would of been better if it had been lolth versus that demon whatshis name. becuase she found our he corrupted her....
If such was the case, Lloth would become the "heroine" to a degree--couldn't happen.
BTW: Spell check sux around here, too.
hey it could happen, after all Hell hadth no furry like a woman scorned.
she would have been raging if she ever found out that he used her.
Don't say I disagree with the premise, just saying it wouldn't fit with the direction FR was going with.
I think Wendonai should have been offed.
I didn't like it that deities were killed, not on that scale. Sometimes WotC has really, really dumb ideas.
I am currently going through War of the Spider Queen, (currently in Extinction). It is a good read, though there are various conflicts that are a bit sloppy (like a gate that is two-way in one novel, and then one-way in another).
Anyway, Hallistra: she would start off as a bard/cleric, then adapt her and add high strength/con, tough skin, regeneration, and of course a set of spider legs (climb speed, extra attacks).
I don't agree with some things either. I don't like how half the drow pantheon were offed. There was some reason to get rid of Eilistraee, but I don't see any sense in killing Selvetarm and Vhaeraun off.
Lady Penitent is cool though and I thought to make homebrew stats for her.
BTW in my Realms some things happened and some didn't. Figure that. Qilue got killed, but Lady Penitent is still around, as are V and Sel.
I don't agree with some things either. I don't like how half the drow pantheon were offed. There was some reason to get rid of Eilistraee, but I don't see any sense in killing Selvetarm and Vhaeraun off.
High five!
BTW in my Realms some things happened and some didn't. Figure that. Qilue got killed, but Lady Penitent is still around, as are V and Sel.
With my alteration, it's the same case in my own Realms.
Yeah, I am pretty tied to canon, as I only play/run/design LFR.
Homebrew stats for LP. Lots of mixing (drider, aranea, demon).
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Lady Penitent: female drider Brd8/Clr10 Lloth, CR 24, large aberration, HD 8k6+30 plus 10k8+50, hp 144, Init +8, Spd 30 ft., climb 15 ft.; AC 36 touch 20 flat-footed 30; attack +19/+14/+9/+4 melee (claws 1k6+5) or +14/+9/+4 melee (bite 1k4 plus poison); SA poison, web, rebuke undead 8/day; SQ cold, acid, fire resistance 10, immunity to poison and electricity; bard knowledge, bard music 7/day, darkvision 36 ft., SR 29; DR 15/cold iron or good; AL CE; SV Fort +18 Ref +21 Will +25; Str 20 Dex 26 Con 21 Int 18 Wis 29 Cha 20.
Skills and Feats: Balance +9, Bluff +16, Concentration +25, Decipher Script +15, Diplomacy +22, Heal +19, Hide +30, Intimidate +15, Knowledge (religion) +14, Listen +16, Move Silently +14, Perform (lyre) +19, Sense Motive +17, Spellcraft +14, Spot +16, Tumble +18; Spell Focus (enchantment), Still Spell, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Scribe Scroll, Stealthy, Power Attack
Spell-like abilities: 1/day – darkness, clearaudience/clearvoyance, levitate, faerie fire, dispel magic, suggestion, dancing lights, detect good, detect magic, detect law.
Bard spells: (3/5/5/2; DC 15 + spell level, 16 + spell level for enchantment spells): 0 – daze, detect magic, light, mage hand, open/ close, read magic; 1 – charm person, cure light wounds, expeditious retreat, silent image; 2 – cure moderate wounds, invisibility, see invisible, sound burst; 3 – charm monster, dispel magic, remove curse.
Cleric spells per day (6/7+1/7+1/5+1/5+1/4+1; DC 19 + spell level, 20 + spell level for enchantment spells)
Patron: Lloth Domains: Chaos, Trickery
Possessions: arms of House Melarn (elven chainmail +5 of nimbleness bull strenght), gloves of Dex +6, amulet of health +6, headband of Wisdom +4, ring of protection +4, piwafwi of resistance +4, boots of elvenkind, instrument of bards (lyre Cli), ring of evasion, wand of improved invisibility, wand of cure moderate wounds, Heward's haversack, drow house insignia, pin of +4 Cha.
Poison DC 18, web DC 16 (Escape Artist) or 20 (Str).
What do you think?
I think that I hate 3.5 statblocks.
Seems OK to me otherwise.
I think that I hate 3.5 statblocks.
Seems OK to me otherwise.
AD&D statblocks were worse. Never could understand them.
That was offtopic. Thanks for your opinion.
I think technically Halisstra counted as a demon.
Aquired Half Fiend template maybe...
A Drider has +6 LA?
Half-Fiend Drider, Loth Touched from MM4 or 5 (I forget which one its in) Bard/Cleric. Sounds kick ***!
Homebrew stats for LP. Lots of mixing (drider, aranea, demon).
...
What do you think?
I think she would be a bit more powerful, personally.
Probably hard to truely stat her (or many of the other novel characters).
Either way, she was powerful--and extremely. Far more than simple character levels.
Intelligence + Wisdom scores are likely not incredibly high though. Same for base value for will save throws.
In terms of DR, I'd put her at around 23. That'd make her as dangerous as a Zulkir (other than Szass Tam) and Sarya in combat.
I'll agree. Well, at least with the wisdom bit--she evidently didn't have it to make a cleric. With the intelligence? Well, I think she was incredibly stupid--but that could be explained by author interpertation in WotSQ and in insanity with LP.
Her charisma was undoubtedly high.
Overall, it is the powers she gained after Lloth's curse that created her true strength.
Hallistra was a cleric/bard. She did have clerical powers, as wel as the bardic songs. So I assume she has a fair wis and Int score (14 perhaps?). Nothing too high perhaps, but enough for a 16th lvl (about) character. Maybe Lolth priestesses do not need high wis scores - given the incredibly headstrong and stupid decisions of top-priestess Quenthel Baenre in the War of the Spider Queen... (Quenthel acted stupid a lot more times than Hallistra, though I am onyl just started in Annihiliation...)
Hallistra likely had a good Cha before she transformed. She probably still has, only now more intimidating than charming.
Gomez
I'm aware that she was a cleric. I would explain my sarcastic comment further, but you are still reading the series.
Though, may I ask what rules edition you would base the "at least 16th level" on. Regardless of where her wisdom was at, I wasn't aware that there was a level cap anymore--just spell level.
Then again, I've been through 3 different editions, so I could just be confused. 
According to the Zanan's list (data from Dragon) Halisstra was brd8/clr10. And I based on it.
Though, may I ask what rules edition you would base the "at least 16th level" on.
3rd edition. The War of the Spider Queen party was fairly obviously high levl (16+ in 3rd, epic tier in 4th), given their mission.
Hallistra, being multiclass, was not very powerful spell-wise.
However, in Extinction, she had it in her to take on a purple worm (with Ryld). That's pretty tough if you have only about half your spells (I don't know if she had all the Eilistraeean magic yet).
Btw, I looked up Quenthel and Pharaun's stats and I seriously can't match Quenthel's behavior (or more specifically, her decision making, or lack thereof) with the given stats.
According to the Zanan's list (data from Dragon) Halisstra was brd8/clr10. And I based on it.
She had some servitude to Lloth in between series, as well a healthy dose of experience for actions taken throughout LP. So I imagine she would have at least 4 more levels in some aspect.
Btw, I looked up Quenthel and Pharaun's stats and I seriously can't match Quenthel's behavior (or more specifically, her decision making, or lack thereof) with the given stats.
I imagine Quenthel's actions were a mixed result of arrogance and uncertainty.
I'd be interested in seeing the stats for both if you still have them.
Just the abilities:
Quenthel: Str 20, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 16, Wis 26, Cha 19 (without magic: Str 14, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 16, Wis 20, Cha 19)
Pharaun: Str 10, Dex 21, Con 14, Int 26, Wis 12, Cha 15 (without magic: Str 10, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 22, Wis 12, Cha 15)
Now, it may be me, but in the series Pharaun seemed a lot more cunning and wiser (when it came to deciding on a course) than Quenthel. Quenthel couldn't even think up her own plans without her whip.
Gomez
Now, it may be me, but in the series Pharaun seemed a lot more cunning and wiser (when it came to deciding on a course) than Quenthel. Quenthel couldn't even think up her own plans without her whip.
You got that right. Pharaun was the sharpest character in the series. Christ, Quenthel couldn't tell her ass from her head.
Now, it may be me, but in the series Pharaun seemed a lot more cunning and wiser (when it came to deciding on a course) than Quenthel. Quenthel couldn't even think up her own plans without her whip.
You got that right. Pharaun was the sharpest character in the series. Christ, Quenthel couldn't tell her ass from her head.
Quenthel was a chick. Find me one that can make a proper decision without a whip in hand and I'll give you my first born Dookie. 
---
Thanks for the stats, Gomez....
Quenthel was a chick. Find me one that can make a proper decision without a whip in hand and I'll give you my first born Dookie.
Wow, offensive much?
Quenthel was a chick. Find me one that can make a proper decision without a whip in hand and I'll give you my first born Dookie.
Wow, offensive much?
I guess he's being typical JD.... 
Drow females at that.... Guess those whips do the thinking for them in certain cases. Cuz, I do believe that Quenthel was quite the dummy at times.... And makes one wonder how House Beanre was at the top with dumb thinking like she did...
Being 'Typical JD' does not excuse spreading hateful misogynist diatribe around.
House Beanre had a bad batch of females right then...
well they only had one good one...... other than that they were all bad....
Oddly, Triel, who was suposedly less sharp than Quenthel (and was eventually replaced by her, acc. to the FRCG), proved very versatile and resourceful. I would have liked her to stay in charge. There is a lot you can do with the tension between the two sisters.
Gomez
Wow, offensive much?
You are either young and naive, old and stupid, or simply lack any sense of humor. I'll couple the former and the latter together and forgive you. Again.
My post did, indeed, deal--in part--with 18D's later corresponding post.
Oddly, Triel, who was suposedly less sharp than Quenthel (and was eventually replaced by her, acc. to the FRCG), proved very versatile and resourceful. I would have liked her to stay in charge. There is a lot you can do with the tension between the two sisters.
Gomez
Yes, she realized that males had a usefulness and almost gave respect. Almost. Sort of "Out of the Box" for a drow chick.
Oddly, Triel, who was suposedly less sharp than Quenthel (and was eventually replaced by her, acc. to the FRCG), proved very versatile and resourceful. I would have liked her to stay in charge. There is a lot you can do with the tension between the two sisters.
Gomez
hehehe, she did have resources,,, Triel's room wsa sealed, and her corpse was left to rott there in.
she problely had herself cloned and Quenthel( Matron Bearne reincarnate) just killed her clone and Triel now lives in Westgate.
with triel's clone decomposing no cleric can tell taht she is alive.
all within Lolth's portfolios and madates.
trickery, deceit and chaotic
Um...ok.
Wow, offensive much?
You are either young and naive, old and stupid, or simply lack any sense of humor. I'll couple the former and the latter together and forgive you. Again.
My post did, indeed, deal--in part--with 18D's later corresponding post.
Yeah, it's kind of sad that Triel got replaced. She's a much more rational and intelligent character than Quenthel. The end of WotSQ almost implied that she was secure enough to take on challenges from Gromph and Quenthel. But I guess the designers of WotC who decided on the 4e Menzoberranzan section didn't even familiarize themselves with much of the drow lore. This is exemplified by some of the glaring mistakes in the 4e FRCS (which I did not buy, btw):
- House Melarn was formed because the matrons wanted to pay respect to the Lady Penitent (who obviously was a slave and familiar to Lolth more than anything else)
- Barrison Del'Armgo replaced Agrach Dyrr as the second house (while Agrach Dyrr was actually the fifth house)
- Xorlarrin replaced Faen Tlabbar as third house in a bloodless manner (which shouldn't have been possible considering the previous lore)
- Gromph and Mez'Barris are lovers 
Also, Ghenni Tlabbar is mentioned as Matron for Faen Tlabbar, and she has been killed twice already.
I don't think Xorlarinn replacing Faen Tlabbar was strange though, I believe they earned the place by defeating house Dyrr, and Tlabbarr ended up with a, inexperienced Matron Mother (not Ghenni).
And despite everything, Halisstra Melarn was one of Lolth's candidates for her Yor'Thae.
Yeah, it's kind of sad that Triel got replaced. She's a much more rational and intelligent character than Quenthel. The end of WotSQ almost implied that she was secure enough to take on challenges from Gromph and Quenthel. But I guess the designers of WotC who decided on the 4e Menzoberranzan section didn't even familiarize themselves with much of the drow lore. This is exemplified by some of the glaring mistakes in the 4e FRCS (which I did not buy, btw):
- House Melarn was formed because the matrons wanted to pay respect to the Lady Penitent (who obviously was a slave and familiar to Lolth more than anything else)
- Barrison Del'Armgo replaced Agrach Dyrr as the second house (while Agrach Dyrr was actually the fifth house)
- Xorlarrin replaced Faen Tlabbar as third house in a bloodless manner (which shouldn't have been possible considering the previous lore)
- Gromph and Mez'Barris are lovers
OMG! Tell me someone mistakenly wrote the first part! What the heck has the forming of House Melarn to do with Lady Penitent? She existed after the house was created!
Gromph + Mez'Barris = OMG! Another line to add to my next generation thread.
I've been off FR for about a half year now (thank you, thank you, it has been tough ) so I may be mistaken, but I believe what he is referring to is the fact that House Melarn essentially died with Hallistra, as Q-dude brother was male and essentially could not have a realistic role in rebuilding it--nor want to.
Out of reverence, several houseless drow took up her name and started the house again. Otherwise, it would no longer exist.
That's my recollection at least.
Also, Ghenni Tlabbar is mentioned as Matron for Faen Tlabbar, and she has been killed twice already.
Yeah, I missed that.
I don't think Xorlarinn replacing Faen Tlabbar was strange though, I believe they earned the place by defeating house Dyrr, and Tlabbar ended up with a, inexperienced Matron Mother (not Ghenni).
Nope. In previous lore, a house simply does not surpass another by title without a war regardless of merit. Otherwise, Do'Urden didn't even need to wipe out DeVir since it was already so overwhelmingly powerful compared to a few of the higher houses. Similarly, Faen Tlabbar could've skipped over Oblodra given its vast superiority in resources.
And despite everything, Halisstra Melarn was one of Lolth's candidates for her Yor'Thae.
This would've been superceded by her more recent disgrace. I doubt Lolth would've looked highly upon a house that celebrates something she cast aside either.
Except that Lolth can no longer directly involve herself with her followers. She no longer has means to withdraw spells, for instance. Also, Lolth likely won't care. Halisstra was always just a tool to her, and she served her purpose. In a way, Lolth may even be 'fond' of Halisstra, in a 'love to torture you' kind of way.
So House Melarn might be formed on the mere rumor that Halisstra killed Eilistraee - few people would know the truth of it. House Baenre likely would not oject, since, if the truth comes out, Qenthel's shame may be revealed as well. And Lolth has little reason to reveal much to her clerics.
Gomez
In a way, Lolth may even be 'fond' of Halisstra, in a 'love to torture you' kind of way.
*recalls the scene in which Lolth regurgitated acid, devoured Halisstra's flesh, and forced herself on Halisstra*
Yeah, I'm gonna agree with this assessment.
So House Melarn might be formed on the mere rumor that Halisstra killed Eilistraee - few people would know the truth of it. House Baenre likely would not oject, since, if the truth comes out, Qenthel's shame may be revealed as well. And Lolth has little reason to reveal much to her clerics.
Gomez
Indeed. Subterfuge and manipulation. Thus, is the way.
Halisstra Melarn, Lolth's Lady Penitent female drow* bard 8/cleric 10 CR 22
CE large outsider (chaotic, elf, evil, extraplanar)
Init +13; Senses darkvision 120 ft.; tremorsense 120 ft.; see invisibility; all-around vision; Listen +21, Spot +28
Languages Abyssal, Drow, Drow Sign Language, Common, Undercommon; telepathy 100 ft.
AC 40, touch 26, flat-footed 29
(- 1 size, +14 natural armor, +9 Dex, +8 deflection)
hp 252 (18 HD+108); regeneration 25; DR 15/good and cold iron
Immune acid, electricity, mind-affecting spells and effects, poison
Resist cold 20, fire 20; SR 29
Fort +25, Ref +28, Will +25
Speed 50 ft. (12 squares); climb 50 ft.
Melee bite +25 (1d6+10 plus widow's venom) and 2 claws +23 (1d8+3)
Base Atk +18; Grp +29
Atk Options Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise
Special Actions pounce, rend 2d8+10
Bard Spells Known (3/5/5/2; save DC 16 + spell level or 17 + spell level for Enchantment spells): 0 - daze, detect magic, kght, mage hand, open/close, read magic; 1st - charm person, cure light wounds, expeditious retreat, silent image; 2nd - cure moderate wounds, invisibility, see invisibility, sound burst; 3rd - charm monster, dispel magic, remove curse.
Cleric Spells Prepared (6/6+1/6+1/4+1/4+1/3+1; save DC 16 + spell level or 17 + spell level for Enchantment spells): None. During the events described in the War of the Spider Queen series, Halisstra does not receive spells from Lolth and cannot prepare any of her spells.*Domain spell. Domains: Chaos (cast chaos spells at +1 caster level), Trickery (Bluff, Disguise, and Hide are class skills as cleric).
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 18th):
At will -- blur, dancing lights, detect thoughts, detect good, detect magic, damning darkness, desecrate, faerie fire, greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), levitate, suggestion, unholy aura, unholy blight, web
Abilities Str 24, Dex 28, Con 23, Int 20, Wis 23, Cha 26
SQ Lolth's favor, Lolth's curse, Rebuke undead (9/day, +8 damage), bardic knowledge +11, bardic music (countersong, fascinate, inspire competence, inspire courage +2, suggestion) 8/day
Feats Combat Casting, Combat Expertise, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (hand crossbow)[b], Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Persuasive, Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Rend, Weapon Finesse, Improved Iniative*(bonus), Combat Refleces*(bonus), Multiattack*(bonus)
Skills Bluff +22, Concentration +31 (+35 casting in threatened areas), Decipher Script +20, Diplomacy +28, Disguise +7 (+9 acting), Gather Information +9, Hide +29, Intimidate +24, Knowledge (arcana) +18, Knowledge (geography) +13, Knowledge (local) +18, Knowledge (nobility) +10, Knowledge (religion) +18, Knowledge (the planes) +26, Listen +23, Move Silently +29, Sense Motive +28, Spellcraft +22, Spot +27, Survival +2 (+4 on other planes, +4 avoiding getting lost and hazards)
Lolth's Favor (Su): Halisstra receives a deflection bonus to her Armor Class and a bonus on all saves equal to her Charisma bonus.
Lolth's Curse (Su): Because her new Lolth-given form is both a blessing and a curse, Halisstra emits an aura of loss and despair that provides a -4 penalty to all saves, attacks, skill checks and ability checks to everyone within 60 ft. of her.
Widow's Venom (Ex): Halisstra's venom as the Lady Penitent is particularly potent. It does 2d6 Con + paralysis/3d6 Con. Her venom is so potent that it ignores poison immunity and poison resistance.
Possessions: Gloves of Dexterity +6, amulet of health +6, headband of Wisdom +4, Halisstra's comb, ring of protection +4, piwafwi of resistance +4, boots of elvenkind, instrument of the bards (Cli lyre), ring of evasion, wand of improved invisibility, wand of cure serious wounds, Heward's handy haversack, drow house insignia, backpack, bedroll, and routine supplies.
I treated the Lady Penitent as a template so I didn't add any HD to Halisstra's class levels. I took Halisstra's stats as listed in Dragon Magazine (Str 16, Dex 24, Con 15, Int 16, Wis 23, Cha 22) and added +8 Str, +4 Dex, +8 Con, +4 Int and +4 Cha. I added +8 racial bonus to her climb, hide, jump, listen, move silently and spot checks. I added an additional +4 to her spot checks because of all-around vision. I removed her weapons, shield and armor from her equipment since she doesn't use them as Lady Penitent. I gave her max hp, changed all her HD and saves to outsider HD and gave her regeneration 25 to explain her instant superior healing, which is just as good as a molydeus tanar'ri. I also gave her a bite attack, two claw attacks, pounce, rend, +14 natural armor, DR 15/good and adamantine, Lolth's favor, Lolth's curse and a powerful poison.
Review?
A couple of points:
Why did you give her damage reduction good and adamantine, cold iron and good are normally the preserve of demons?
Are there any instances where the spell-like abilities you've added were in the books? I don't recall the majority of those.
That's a brilliant write-up Dxzauvrinn, I may even have to use it for my own campaign.
A couple of points:
Why did you give her damage reduction good and adamantine, cold iron and good are normally the preserve of demons?
Are there any instances where the spell-like abilities you've added were in the books? I don't recall the majority of those.
Thanks Eli. I've switched it to cold iron and good. I used adamantine before because she seemed very tough and nothings harder than adamantine, but it's an easy switch. I don't recall her using too many - if any - spell-like abilities in the books. I just gave her noble drow spell-like abilities and a few others that seemed to fit her as a spider-like fiend like web, desecrate, teleport (all tanar'ri have this) and unholy aura.
House Melarn was not wiped out, House Melarn of Ched Nasad was wiped out (as were most houses there). Melarn can still be a house of strength in any number of drow cities. Drow Houses are descended from very old nobility, mostly Illythiri and Miyeritari. I am sure that Mizzrym for instance also existed in Maerimydra.