I've read a bit about the shadow weave in the FRCS, and I have a few questions about it:
Shar can isolate any creature from it, why can't Mystra do that with the weave? (I guess it's because Mystra is the Weave and had to cut herself to pieces if she would try that, but I'd like to have confirmation on that.)
When Mystra reworked the Weave after Karsus tried to assume her place she somehow stopped the most powerful arcanist spells from working. Would it theoretically be possible to cast them through the shadow weave or is Shar somehow bound to make the same limits as Mystra?
She even isolates Cyric from the Weave in the novel The Trial of Cyric the Mad.
And in the Shadow Weave section is this: "Shar has full control over the Shadow Weave and can isolate any creature from it or silence it entirely without any harm to herself."
Because of this I thought, that Mystra can't do that with the Weave.
I am tempted to just sit back with some popcorn and wait until Meldread sees this... I will, however be slightly more useful and direct you to my discussion with the aforementioned congnoscentus (what the heck is the singular of congnoscenti anyway?) on a subject similar to this one and that may well contain the information you want... Here
Thanks a lot:
This
-Untrue. We know that Shar was the "keeper" of the Shadow Weave, and that she decided who could tap into it and who couldn't. Unlike Mystra, she never received a mandate where she had to allow anyone who wanted it to utilize it, regardless of their intentions.
answers my first question.
I think if the higher magics were available to Shadow Weave casters, we would of seen evidence of it by now.
Bel
If Shar created the Shadow Weave from the negative spaces in the Weave, shouldn't it be be constrained by the same limits as the Weave? Including access to higher level magics?
I think if the higher maics were available to Shadow Weave casters, we would of seen evidence of it by now.
Bel
I've thought about that too, but I would like to be sure of it.;)
I'd like to think that if Shar has enough control over the shadow weave to exile any one person from using it she can also keep level 10+ spells out of it as well. If she didn't then that's just plain stupid on her part, which I wouldn't expect from a god.
I wouldn't think that it is that stupid, she would attract a lot of power-hungry wizards as followers. And at the moment there seems to be no direct danger from Karsus' Avatar:
"Karsus' avatar is a spell whose origin is unknown. The original notes regarding its essence of were nowhere to be found. It is believed Mystra, the reincarnated form of Mystryl, snatched the spell information from the ruins of Karsus' enclave and sent it on an eternal journey to the ends of the universe."
Giving her followers access to the high-level spells of Netheril would give her an edge, and the question is, if she was able to do that, not to prevent it.;)
Besides the shadow weave is already tempting power hungry wizards to it's side, as it give them an edge over wizards using mystra's weave and the added power to certain schools of magic. The entire thing is more powerful, the pro's easily outweighing the cons; because if your entering into the use of the shadow weave your probably going to make sure your magic will benifit most from it's touch therefore you'll probrably be focused on Necromancy and what not, not conjuration. I still can't believe the reconned the -2 to wisdom.
She even went so far as to tell the Simbul - her Chosen - to STOP killing Red Wizards, because their magic use directly contributed to her power.
As far as the Shadow Weave being part of the Weave - thats all been ret-conned several times over, and the latest official word is that it NEVER needed Mystra's Weave to survive (although it may, at one point, have been made from it, as those bits about the 'spaces' suggests).
I figure she just used Mystra's weave as a 'template' for her own - look at it like an X-ray copy of it, and thats where that old 'spaces in the Weave' lore comes from.
BTW, I always wondered why Shar didn't allow the higher spells, as Mystryl originally did, but then I combined it with something else that bothered me, and it all made sense.
It actually worked in the opposite fashion then we were lead to believe (Mystra's church spreading mis-truths again :P ).
Mortal magic is limited to level 9, end of story. The Weave has NOTHING to do with that. If not, then why is it that EVERY other magical world in creation doesn't have a Weave, and yet folks can cast spells willy-nilly without a problem, and all of them also stop at level 9?
The truth is, Mystra's Weave is a magical interface that simplifies magic to the point where casters can handle it easier and produce more spectacular effects then otherwise possible (like a REALLY good graphics card in a computer). Raw Magic was still there, and could be used, but it was dangerous and unpredictable at times (FR had an over-abundance of it, unlike most worlds, so it was like trying to power a toaster with a lightning bolt).
As part of that, she made magic normally unattainable by mortals accessable (in hopes of increasing her own divine power through its use). Ergo, Shar doesn't block level 9 spells - thats the normal way the universe works.
Mystra twisted the 'local laws' of magic with the Weave, and that is why higher levels were available at one time.
In my own Cosmology/Over-Science, I have it where there is a corresponding level for each level of godhood -
Demigods can access level 10
Lesser gods level 11
Intermediate gods level 12
and Greater Gods level 13
there are of course more powerful levels, for High Gods, Over-gods (Primordials), and Elder Gods (Old Ones).
Only the one true GOD can use spells that are level 17. ;)
So, getting back to the subject at hand - Mystryl's Weave allowed Mortals to tap into divine powers they shouldn't have been able to, and was crushed by her mistake (probably much to the other god's amusement).
So it isn't Shar that is 'making up rules', it was really Mytryl who was breaking them.
Just my take, for what its worth.
EDIT: One last thing - Elven High Magic and Epic Magic are both variations on being able to cast above 'Mortal levels', and both require some sort of sacrifice and/or additional power from other 'souls' (more people involved to make up the 'spiritual difference' between a mortal and a Demi-god).
-Instead of mind****ing this topic. Lets remember who we are dealing with.
-A Goddess that acts in often illogical and bizarre ways. :P
-A Goddess that guards her secrets jealously. :evillaugh
18DELTA ;)
Mystra added 'extensions' to her interface to allow mortals to use higher forms of Magic then they should have been able to - like having 'add-ons' for your Intenert Browser.
Ao allowed Mystryl to learn her lesson (Karsus' Folly), and the Universe was made 'right' once again.
Shar could easily do the same with the Shadow Weave - but she's NOT stupid. #1 - giving mortals access to that level of power - especially evil mortals - will inevitably blow-up in her face. And #2 - as others have said, she is the Goddess of secrets, so there's no way she'd be willing to share ANY knowledge of divine power (magic above 9th) with ANYONE.
Shar only recieves a small amount of power when people use the Shadow-Weave because magic-use isn't what she is all about. On the other hand, Mystra received MOST of her power from Arcane Magical use, and therfore would have been 'pimping it' EVERY chance she got, to the point of obscuring other forms of casting and allowing mortals to use power they shouldn't have had access to.
Deities are not 100% benign - not even the good ones. Part of their 'deal' with the Universe is to push their portfolios every way they can in order to raise their own power level. In that regard, Mystra was no different then the rest, and thats why I have always viewed her as having her own 'secret agenda' to squash any knowledge that doesn't directly empower her.
As it is now, with 4e lore in mind, we find out she really WASN'T the Goddess of 'All Magic' - merely Arcane Magic, which she had convinced most everyone was the only form of magic. I figure her church has their own highly trained 'spin-doctors', and the return of Shade put a major snafu in their plans. Is hard to obfuscate knowledge when you have an entire floating city using powers your church says doesn't exist. ;)
But thats just my spin on things, in order for the transition to 4e lore make some sense to me.