By Elaine Cunningham
Book I: Starlight and Shadows trilogy
-I started rereading through Daughter of the Drow at a somewhat slow pace, but that pace increased exponentially when I woke up sick. Having already been about 1/3 of the way finished with the novel to begin with, I wound up finishing all of it laying in bed reading. One thing, though, before I get on with the review: What is the first chapter about? My book literally is missing the first chapter, starting with Chapter Two, “Matron Baenre is dead, long live Matron Triel”. I must really have bum luck, because things like that seem to happen to me often.
-Anyway, it’s been a while since I picked up this trilogy of books, and having read the entire thing, it’s interesting to see some of the character development. Liriel, when she was first introduced, I immediately thought of Paris Hilton, in that she is a somewhat spoiled rich girl who is shielded (for the most part) from ‘average’ society because of the political power and reputation of her father, Gromph Baenre. It’s interesting to see how she changes, over the course of really not even the entire book trilogy, but just this book itself. Regardless of other novels out there dealing with the same topic, the Starlight and Shadows trilogy are, I think, the best representation of what it is like to grow up in a certain culture, and then try to remove yourself from it. In other novels, we have priests and priestess of deities flip-flopping all around, worshipping someone, and then replacing someone else, and then their replacement, and so on. With Liriel, we see how much she struggles to free herself from Lolth, and all that Lolth represents.
-Daughter of the Drow is also a very good source to see what Drow life is really like. I’ll ashamedly admit that, when I first read Daughter of the Drow for the first time, I took a dislike to it, because it didn’t depict a “R.A. Salvatore” Drow culture, where all Drow were militant to a degree, deadly, and ready to fight with anyone on a moment’s notice. That was a long time ago, having been introduced to the setting via Drizzt, and Salvatore’s novels. Unlike Salvatore, Cunningham depicts Drow society as something that makes sense in terms of a society. It’s interesting to see depictions of Drow “high life”, of parties, of ‘peaceful’ galas, of things that are not in any way related to combat and/or conflict, Salvatore’s specialty.
-I’ll admit that I didn’t like a lot of the characters featured in the book. Really, it seems that I disliked more than I actually enjoyed. Fyodor, I’m very neutral on him, overall. I don’t dislike him, but at the same time, he isn’t my favorite character out there. Liriel, I enjoy her more than I dislike her, but a lot of the points that I like concerning her character don’t happen until later on in the series, and are mostly missing during Daughter of the Drow. Shak’ti is probably my favorite character in this novel, and maybe the series. She’s a realistic Drow- she’s willing to do anything, to go anywhere for power. She isn’t going to let anything like a vengeful spider goddess unwilling to share her worshippers with her thief-of-a-son Vhaeraun stop her from gaining the power she wants and craves.
-Hands down, though, the worst character in the book has got to be the Deep Dragon Zz’Pzora. The fact that she’s a two-headed Dragon doesn’t really bother me, or the fact that she is described as insane, or the fact that she has multiple personalities as much as the fact that the entire character seems completely out-of-place. Normally, with a Dragon, you feel ‘grandeur’. With Zz’Pzora, I felt anything but. The character reminded me of Magellan from Eureeka's Castle (a late-80s/early-90s television show for those who don’t know of it)- though, I’ll need to also thank Elaine Cunningham for this, as I just looked up Eureeka’s Castle on Wikipedia, and got to relive plenty of childhood memories from that show, and my incessant Wikipedia habit of clicking on lots of links to lots of things. I haven’t thought of the Adventures of the Little Koala, Eureeka’s Castle, or David the Gnome for years…Decades, even…
-Overall, plot wise, nothing too intense happens, and those are usually the best types of novels. Though there are lots of mentions of the Dragon’s Horde Merchant Company in source material, I prefer to think that’s not because of their relative importance in the world, but rather, because of a lack of named and stated Vhaeraunite organizations in the world. The introduction of the Windwalker Amulet as both something integral to the story, character, and possibly world was a touch that I like, and knowing how everything turns out, it’s interesting to see things in their formative stages.
-Of note, it is also interesting to see that “Welcome to the FORGOTTEN REALMS” segment at the end. I don’t recall any other novels having stuff like that, offhand. It’s not relevant to the story, but it’s interesting to see, nonetheless. I guess, overall, I can describe rereading this novel, and this subsequent review in the following words: “Blast from the past.”
-Overall, out of a possible Five Beholders, I give Daughter of the Drow Three Beholders.
to it was worth
3 beholders and a chicken
End of spoiler.
One of the best things about the Daughter of the Drow was the dedication to Elaine's Polish grandmother.
Or was it in the Windwalker?
The first chapter was about Gromph encountering his daughter (Liriel Vandree) at a young age (about 10) and her exhibiting extraordinary magical powers /I mean, at this age/. And subsequent killing of her mother, which made Liriel bear surname Baenre.
-Damn...The "unusual" circumstances of her birth and development are mentioned and explained in the first chapter, but I didn't get to "see it".
The character reminded me of Magellan from Eureeka's Castle (a late-80s/early-90s television show for those who don’t know of it)
I loved this show. Much better than Pinwheel or other Nick-shows at the time (though I don't know if David the Gnome was on that station?).
since the book had roots in second edition fyodor feels more like a test run then a truly filled out character. i recall they call him a berserker rather then a barbarian.
on a related note before the todd lockwoods reimagining of the covers to the trilogies the cover art was so bad it was evil, lierel looks moe like a cosplay soccar mom with an 70s-80s fluff fro and fyodor looked like a renn faire carnie selling pretzels and roses.
I thought it was good.
to it was worth
3 beholders and a chicken
I liked it a lot... I'd give it 3
, a , AND a Godzilla. 
:D :P
I liked it a lot... I'd give it 3
-Ohh, a Godzilla. What does that signify?
-Ohh, a Godzilla. What does that signify?
Nuclear-test-spawned, power-plant-reactor-chomping, radioactive-fire breathing, city-leveling, alien-bashing, colossal lizard monsters?
This was a shame since I loved the second novel and felt that may have been the strongest of the series.
@Raveharm they did not call Fydoor a barbarian since that is pretty much just a class in a game and not really title for what somebody does in campaign settings. Barbarians are usually called that by people who look down on a group of people that may or not have tribal customs. He practiced a beserker style of his tribe and would then be considered a beserker. I love that name and think it should have been used instead of barbarian when describing Player Classes. Thankfully 4E took away the not being able to read garbage of the barbarian race.
As LK said, Shakti is a character you can strike a liking to, probably because she's not of the usual top-notch nobility presented somewhere else. Alongside Valas Hune of the WotSQ series, she ranks amongst my favourite drow of the Realms. That would be those drow plodding away in a demanding society and still manage to survive ... and strife.
LK, I think you should give a mention to Liriel'S teacher too. He's another one who caught my eye a bit, despite not getting that much attention.
(I was taken aback by the appearance of this Russian fairy tale - style walking hut at the beginning, but Rashemi culture seems to have some ... well Slavic pedigree.)
As LK said, Shakti is a character you can strike a liking to, probably because she's not of the usual top-notch nobility presented somewhere else. Alongside Valas Hune of the WotSQ series, she ranks amongst my favourite drow of the Realms. That would be those drow plodding away in a demanding society and still manage to survive ... and strife.
LK, I think you should give a mention to Liriel'S teacher too. He's another one who caught my eye a bit, despite not getting that much attention.
(I was taken aback by the appearance of this Russian fairy tale - style walking hut at the beginning, but Rashemi culture seems to have some ... well Slavic pedigree.)
Shakti. Good point.
Kharza-kzad was a really good drow (I mean, not your stereotypical power-mad guy). Original.
As for the Rashemi. Yes, they have Slavic roots. AFAIR Elaine has a Polish grandmother, so...
Even after all these years I remember Shakti but not as fondly as LK and Zanan. I just felt she was kind of a whiny nobody. The nobody part could have been cool but the whine and cheese part not so much. I am not 100% sure why that is though since it I have not read the book since it was forst published but it was always the vibe I got from her.
Well, that "feeling for" Shakti grew while reading Tangled Webs and Windwalker, of course ... ;)
LK, I think you should give a mention to Liriel'S teacher too. He's another one who caught my eye a bit, despite not getting that much attention.
-Karza (Sp?), I view him like a very diminished Spider Mage- he's interesting, to a degree, but I want more actual information about him before I go and start judging him, liking him or disliking him. In the book itself, I had very neutral feelings on him- his apotheosis at the end was what made him more than neutral, leaning towards interesting.
Daughter of the Drow
-Daughter of the Drow is also a very good source to see what Drow life is really like. I’ll ashamedly admit that, when I first read Daughter of the Drow for the first time, I took a dislike to it, because it didn’t depict a “R.A. Salvatore” Drow culture, where all Drow were militant to a degree, deadly, and ready to fight with anyone on a moment’s notice. That was a long time ago, having been introduced to the setting via Drizzt, and Salvatore’s novels. Unlike Salvatore, Cunningham depicts Drow society as something that makes sense in terms of a society. It’s interesting to see depictions of Drow “high life”, of parties, of ‘peaceful’ galas, of things that are not in any way related to combat and/or conflict, Salvatore’s specialty.
I liked that aspect of these novels, myself. The drow are supposed to be decadent as well deadly.
-Hands down, though, the worst character in the book has got to be the Deep Dragon Zz’Pzora. The fact that she’s a two-headed Dragon doesn’t really bother me, or the fact that she is described as insane, or the fact that she has multiple personalities as much as the fact that the entire character seems completely out-of-place. Normally, with a Dragon, you feel ‘grandeur’. With Zz’Pzora, I felt anything but. The character reminded me of Magellan from Eureeka's Castle (a late-80s/early-90s television show for those who don’t know of it)- though, I’ll need to also thank Elaine Cunningham for this, as I just looked up Eureeka’s Castle on Wikipedia, and got to relive plenty of childhood memories from that show, and my incessant Wikipedia habit of clicking on lots of links to lots of things. I haven’t thought of the Adventures of the Little Koala, Eureeka’s Castle, or David the Gnome for years…Decades, even…
I remember all those shows.
Yes, Diffan, David the Gnome was on Nickelodeon.
Its ok. I liked this better than the Halruaa stuff she did but not nearly as much as the Harper stuff or Evermeet
-Ohh, a Godzilla. What does that signify?
It is my way of showing that outside of the storyline and writing quality, it's chock full of delicious Realmslore.
After that series, I actually grew fond of Gromph.
Made me appreciate him much more in WotSQ.
Its ok. I liked this better than the Halruaa stuff she did but not nearly as much as the Harper stuff or Evermeet
Haven't read the Halruaa stuff yet, but I plan to.
I don't read Harper novels - I wanted to tear out my eyes after reading Red Magic, and I haven't wanted to touch another one since... even the word 'Harper' makes me want to vomit.
I just finished Ed's Knights of Myth Drannor series, and before that Spellfire, and I've managed to get my revulsion under control somwhat, so maybe in the future I will be able to read Harper novels.
I don't know, maybe it's jst me... but isn't anyone else in the least bit offended by a group of 'heroes' that joke-around while blithly cutting people down?
I'm a huge fan of Ed's Realmslore... but the Harpers come-off as vigilante pyschopaths, IMHO.
I don't read Harper novels - I wanted to tear out my eyes after reading Red Magic, and I haven't wanted to touch another one since... even the word 'Harper' makes me want to vomit.
-You'd like The Parched Sea.
I don't know, maybe it's jst me... but isn't anyone else in the least bit offended by a group of 'heroes' that joke-around while blithly cutting people down?
-A lot like Jedi. And, they're the good guys, those murdering dogs.
I'm a huge fan of Ed's Realmslore... but the Harpers come-off as vigilante pyschopaths, IMHO.
-Most self-appointed (somewhat) guardians of the world/peace/security/goodness/righteousness/whatever normally are.
I don't know, maybe it's jst me... but isn't anyone else in the least bit offended by a group of 'heroes' that joke-around while blithly cutting people down?
Well, when I was much younger, I really enjoyed the "Three Musketeers" movies of the 70s (Michael York et al). Later on though, I got a similar feeling like you. Dunno whether the Alexandre Dumas novels were as jovial and funny as some of the movies.*
The Knights of Myth Drannor** series rank among the best I have read in recent years. If you are done with them, follow them up with the Shadows of the Avatar trilogy, also about some of the (later) Knights.
* Same actually applies to the Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy.
**One simply cannot help but love Pennae ;) (if only someone who's got the power can change her fate somewhat.)
I don't read Harper novels - I wanted to tear out my eyes after reading Red Magic, and I haven't wanted to touch another one since... even the word 'Harper' makes me want to vomit.
thats seems like an odd reaction especially since they all had different authors, some were quite good
Besides, they all remind me of Daredevil, with his smug, "holier then thou" attitude. Who the hell are they to decide how everyone else should live?
Who do they think they are? Americans?
;) :P
But Elaine is more about characters, and RAS is more about action. Although both of them can do both, they each have their forte'.
Elaine's seem more like people, whereas RAS's seem more like characters. Each is good in their own way.
Liriel, Arilyn & Danilo I am looking at you!
We do not know her reasons, but WotC certainly was willing to publish the novel.
If you are really 'jonesin' for some Cunningham goodness, you can check-out the work she's doing for Paizo and their Golarion setting.
That was Elaine's choice, NOT WotC's decision. She found herself unable to complete the novel assigned her, which would have brought most of characters 'up-to-date' for 4e.
You mean killing all the human ones? :D
We do not know her reasons, but WotC certainly was willing to publish the novel.
As to the last novel, I wasn't actually referring to it in the slightest. Some literary projects work, some don't. Such is life. Continuing to offer projects (humbly on bended knee ;)) to Elaine actually shouldn't have a lot to do with this. What it should have something to do with is the popularity (and thus sales) of her past work and the likelihood of that result recurring. Both would be a sound bet in my mind. Hence my comment about be sad to not have seen her back here yet.
Yeah, I know, hope is a terrible disease.
If you always look at the 'dark side' of everything, and expect nothing, then you will always be pleasantly surprised when you are wrong.
If you look forward to 'good things', then you will have a life filled with disappointment.
I guess that just makes me a realist... but I hate that term as well. :P
Anyhow, I am ambivalent toward Elaine writing anymore FR stories, because they woiuld more-then-likely take place in the new era, and I care not a wit about that setting.
I wish Ms. Cunningham the very best in whatever direction her talent takes her, and look forward to reading novels by her despite where they may be set. A good author makes the setting, not the other way around.
As LK said, Shakti is a character you can strike a liking to, probably because she's not of the usual top-notch nobility presented somewhere else. Alongside Valas Hune of the WotSQ series, she ranks amongst my favourite drow of the Realms. That would be those drow plodding away in a demanding society and still manage to survive ... and strife.
Indeed. I'd say she's atypical in that she's not a sheep (much unlike most of the priestess characters in FR) and is able to look at the larger picture. Unfortunately, she's unlikely going to be featured in the future.
(I was taken aback by the appearance of this Russian fairy tale - style walking hut at the beginning, but Rashemi culture seems to have some ... well Slavic pedigree.)
Seems to be more pronoucedly Viking to me.
Indeed. I'd say she's atypical in that she's not a sheep (much unlike most of the priestess characters in FR) and is able to look at the larger picture.
-A very good point.
Indeed. I'd say she's atypical in that she's not a sheep (much unlike most of the priestess characters in FR) and is able to look at the larger picture. Unfortunately, she's unlikely going to be featured in the future.
In the current climate, I'd really want to keep her in the memory that she left after the Liriel series.
Seems to be more pronoucedly Viking to me.
Well, language- and folklore-wise, definitely Russian/Polish a background. Culture-wise sure some sort of fantasized viking background. Much like the barbarians of the Icewind Dale et al.
I absolutely loved this book, and the entire series. Elaine Cunningham's work in the Realms is really definitive. She captured the feel of FR perfectly for me. Her characters were also eminently likeable and I really cared about what happened to them.
And yeah... I really do want to know what happened to Liriel and company. I even made a character that descended from Liriel for a game that I'm currently playing.
To stay with the beholder rating theme, I'll give this book 5/5 beholders!
I feel the same way. Arilyn and Elaith are both in my top ten favorite FR characters of all time, and Liriel and Fyodor are both honorable mentions. It's a shame we probably won't ever see Reclamation, but if she couldn't align with her muse, I wouldn't want her to force out a book for our sakes. Liriel, Arilyn, and Elaith (and Ferret and Foxfire for that matter) are all still alive in my realms.;) And I agree, Daughter of the Drow is fantastic (as is just about anything Cunningham).
I feel the same way. Arilyn and Elaith are both in my top ten favorite FR characters of all time, and Liriel and Fyodor are both honorable mentions. It's a shame we probably won't ever see Reclamation, but if she couldn't align with her muse, I wouldn't want her to force out a book for our sakes. Liriel, Arilyn, and Elaith (and Ferret and Foxfire for that matter) are all still alive in my realms.;) And I agree, Daughter of the Drow is fantastic (as is just about anything Cunningham).
I agree fully with all that was said. Ever thought Liriel and Fyodor could have had a half-drow child?
I agree fully with all that was said. Ever thought Liriel and Fyodor could have had a half-drow child?
It's a tempting concept. I've already plotted out the descendants of Arilyn and Danilo in my home game. Liriel and Fyodor's child would be a great deal trickier, but then again half-drow are my favorite race in the game, so I might just work my DM magic and make it happen
It's a tempting concept. I've already plotted out the descendants of Arilyn and Danilo in my home game. Liriel and Fyodor's child would be a great deal trickier, but then again half-drow are my favorite race in the game, so I might just work my DM magic and make it happen
Descendants of Arilyn and Danilo... OMG. Any more? Or maybe, answer me on PM. I'd like to know more about this awesome idea.
Descendants of Arilyn and Danilo... OMG. Any more? Or maybe, answer me on PM. I'd like to know more about this awesome idea.
I sent you a PM with the Thann descendants. Hope it looks alright.