By Brian James and Ed Greenwood
Huh. Never realized it was ‘The’, and not ‘A’, like on the .PDF file. Go figure. I’m still calling it AGHotR. That looks so much better than TGHotR.
Anyway, rather than laud all of the parts I like, with this book, it’s much easier to discuss the parts that I don’t like. And, there aren’t all that many. There’s mainly three things, one of minor importance, one of middling importance, and one of (I think) a great deal of importance.
First, there is the reused artwork. In my own games, in my own setting “bible”, I use reused artwork from other WotC products, and from elsewhere. But, you know what? I am not an artist, nor am I a multi-million dollar company that is producing a product that is available for widespread retail, at $29.99 USD a pop. Now, I know the reason for the reused artwork, as Brian has explained. I don’t hold that against him, but at WotC. I mean, come on. You can commission a new image of Drizzt on the cover, and of Elminster in the back, so why not chalk up a little bit more (it’s not like the product isn’t going to “pay for itself”, given that all WotC had to do was pay Brian for his compilation, and hire a few others to create maps and vignettes)? I mean, it’s not as if events in the book don’t lend themselves to really cool scenes- The Sundering, any one of the Crown Wars, the destruction of Jhaamdath, the Weeping War- and note, those are only cool scenes related to Elves. There’s so much more.
The next thing would be the aforementioned vignettes. Overall, I like them. It was a neat idea, whoever thought to include them. Much better than a R.A. Salvatore short story, in my opinion. A good selection of authors, too: Brian, Ed, Tom Costa, Eric Boyd, George K. Because of the fonts and colors used with many of them, however, some are actually hard to read. Yes, I understand how it makes it cooler looking and more “authentic”, but with the sidebars that are hard to read upon first glance, my initial reaction is to ignore them. Having gone back and read them all since getting the book, there are quite a few little gems in those vignettes. Making them hard to read is a bit counterproductive. Everything else, in all of the other Forgotten Realms products of 3e were in “default/generic” sourcebook font, so that could have been implemented here as well.
My biggest dislike is thus: “1,357 DR, Year of the Prince: In this year, on an alternate Material World known as Earth, Ed of the Greenwood assembles various travelogues, maps and other works from Elminster of Shadowdale into the first publications of the Forgotten Realms campaign setting”. I was never a fan of the concept that Ed Greenwood delivered Elminster’s notes to TSR, and that was how the Forgotten Realms came to be. I always found that notion silly, and was happy that 3e took a third-party narration approach, dispelling that form of presentation. Here, however, THGotR perpetuates the notion. Ugh, fine. This presents a problem, however. The book breaks this notion itself, by including an extra ten years of Forgotten Realms history. Remember, when TGHotR was published, the official date was 1,375 DR. Keeping this in mind, two things: How could TGHotR include an extra ten years into Faerûn’s future, when the future didn’t happen yet, and Elminster could not share with Ed Greenwood Faerûn’s goings-on’s? With the future now “written in stone”, what is to stop Elminster from taking with him an account of the next ten years back to Faerûn, and having this foreknowledge, changing what was “supposed” to happen? For example, the “secret plot” that Shar and Cyric were creating isn’t that much of a secret anymore, if 1,375 DR Elminster returns to his home with TGHotR in tow.
Regardless of my criticisms, I give the The Grand History of the Realms, out of a possible Five Beholders, Five Beholders. It is a must-have product.
I agree the reused artwork was a severe missed oppertunity to make Fearuns past shine. I would have loved to see commisioned pictures of the Orcgate wars, the crowning of the first Coronal, the Sarruhk investigations on magic on Toril, et cetera.
But are you sure the official current date was 1375DR... I think they move it up to 1385DR at publishing, that's why they included the 10 years. Because, its the LAST sourcebook before the Spellplague and 4e FRCS. Some novels where supposed to be finished before its publication... leaving room only to spellplague things and 4e things.
anyway... its a great book and Brian made a great job in the first place ! Sad I didn't get is version before it went out !
I made my own little review of the book on Amazon.com about a year ago.
http://www.amazon.com/Grand-History-Realms-Forgotten/dp/0786947314/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1229552733&sr=8-1
When I posted it, I was nervous it was going to be full of errors (English not being my native language), but people kept giving it good votes. And it's silly, but I got proud about it and started checking it every few days for more favorable votes :embarrass
I don't have a problem with the Greenwood thing. It was just a sly wink at the audience; I don't think it was meant to be taken terribly seriously. Just a cute Easter egg.
About the dates: maybe AGHotR was written in THE FUTURE and sent back to us! Or maybe El's final notes got lost in a time warp! Or maybe Ed Greenwood has special divinatory powers granted to him by Savras! :P
The omniscient narrator doesn't bother me, because THEY might be omniscient, but we aren't, and the people involved aren't. And what they write is still cursory at best. There's always room for elaboration and interpretations and detail.
This was deliberately written in so that DMs would have a free hand to make things up and have a source of jumping off points to build adventures from.
Why? With the dawn of the Realms as a campaign setting some twenty years ago, Ed Greenwood recognized that most DMs would have to contend with players who expected their D&D game be consistent with what was written in the FR sourcebooks (from the Gray Boxed set onward).
This is why the “uncertainties” were written in to so many early Realms products, all the way through the Volo’s Guides.
Two decades later it’s quite easy to say that one can do whatever one wants with their Realms game. But in the process of doing that let’s not gloss over the facts behind why things were written the way they were and the differing mentalities of D&D players from then to now.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
As to the book itself: It’s great!
I’m no lore junkie, mind. If I want heaps and heaps of Realmslore, I expect to find it in a novel, not in a sourcebook.
But AGHotR does a good job of giving readers lore information without turning the whole experience into one great big dry read. It does this in two ways.
The first are the periodic vignettes/sidebars interspersed throughout the book. They let you in on new Realmslore and also plug you right into the voices and feelings of the time periods they are written from, while also providing a break of sorts between the pages and pages of dates and facts in this book.
My two favorites are The Sundering on page 11 and Kisonraathiisar’s Slow Demise on page 48.
The second is the use of “links” (as the book calls them). These are timeline pointers that allow a reader to follow the progression of a topic through the book. For example, the topic of Gauntlgrym is first found at -335 DR. In that entry is a link: [-321], that points the reader to the next mention of Gauntlgrym in the timeline.
If you go to that entry, you see links both to the previous entry and the next entry (in this case [-335] and [-111]).
No more fruitless searching. w00t!
As for the artwork.....grrrrr! Let me say this first: A lot of the artwork fits the book, is Realms themed and is cool looking. The artwork for the Dodkong on page 56 is killer, in my opinion.
But why oh why use a Warforged (page 49)? You just don’t put an iconic Eberron image into this sort of book. Eberron artwork is great...for Eberron. No kudos to Kate Irwin (art director) for that error.
I think perhaps the most overlooked (and IMO, useful) part of the book is the Monarchies of Faerûn section. Within its pages you find names of twelve well known lands and cities (including, but not limited to, Aglarond, Amn, Cormyr, Impiltur and Westgate), followed by a complete listing of the family dynasties who ruled them, the ruler’s name, when he/she was born, the years they reigned and certain notes about them.
I’m a fan of condensed lore information. I like having simple charts with data and notable facts. The Monarchies section is a great resource, IMO. (Stigger: this is a hint as to why I like the manifestations chart in the first web enhancement for Faiths and Pantheons.)
Finally, I like the historical maps. Having the historical notes is one thing, but being able to actually see the progression of the Second and Fourth Crown Wars (map on page 13) across the continent of Faerûn is another.
Good Realmslore (back in the day, so to speak) consisted of uncertainties, unanswered questions, maybes and innuendo.
This was deliberately written in so that DMs would have a free hand to make things up and have a source of jumping off points to build adventures from.
Why? With the dawn of the Realms as a campaign setting some twenty years ago, Ed Greenwood recognized that most DMs would have to contend with players who expected their D&D game be consistent with what was written in the FR sourcebooks (from the Gray Boxed set onward).
This is why the “uncertainties” were written in to so many early Realms products, all the way through the Volo’s Guide.
Two decades later it’s quite easy to say that one can do whatever one wants with their Realms game. But in the process of doing that let’s not gloss over the facts behind why things were written the way they were and the differing mentalities of D&D players from then to now.
I would completely agree with you on this point.
As to the monarchies list, that's proven invaluable to my campaign thus far, so definite nod to whomever came up with those. Regarding the manifestations chart, I preferred the F&A paragraph approach myself, but to each their own and all that.
My Epic Realms campaign is moving right into the time period where Mystra gets the axe. So having all the recent novel events in one place (without having to read all those novels) helps, because I can use the timeline entries to throw tons of plot and adventure hooks from all over the Realms at my players and move them in and out of the flow of history, noting any changes to the timeline based off of their actions as play moves along.
That's fun.
As to the monarchies list, that's proven invaluable to my campaign thus far, so definite nod to whomever came up with those.
Double nod from me, too. Memorizing a few entries from the Cormyr section of that list makes me look like a Realmslore genius in front of my players.
The color-coding I put back with a set of Highliters, but I still need to refer to the pdf version once in a while to figure out where a piece of lore was from.
Other then those monor quibbles, it is definately a must-have for any Realmsfan.
Especially since it was the last 'Real' Realms book. :P
not five.The information of 1375+ should have been completely left out of the book, and left either for online release or printed in the 4E's campaign guide.
I prefer Brian's original online version, actually, which I would give five beholders.
I prefer Brian's original online version, actually, which I would give five beholders.
-I do too, for a bunch of reasons, but the physical copy is a must-have resources, hence it's rating. It does have extra stuff not in the .PDF file, asides for the stuff at the end, looking into the "future". Anyone who is a fan of the setting, or wants to DM in the setting NEEDS the book.
To be honest, I think its a bit more useful than the FRCS was...
How so?
Knowing FR's history is great and all, but you really don't need it to run a game. You can't really say the same thing about the FRCS...
I've been considering cutting it out with a razor knife (no... I'm not joking).
It annoys the hell out of me when I'm trying to follow a path of events, and I got to page-through that stuff in the middle - The placement was ATROCIOUS.
Expanded?
I've been considering cutting it out with a razor knife (no... I'm not joking).
It annoys the hell out of me when I'm trying to follow a path of events, and I got to page-through that stuff in the middle - The placement was ATROCIOUS.
-It's placement was pretty bad, I will say. When I want it expanded, yes, that is what I mean. It lists a bunch of places, but it's wholly complete. It could make an entire sourcebook, perhaps, listing all of the monarchies and royal lines of the setting, but the more that are included, the more useful it becomes.
For instance, I personally only want one for Ulgarth, believe it or not, but I'm probably the only guy who feels that way. Since a tome of that sort would only contain a small amount of material that matters to most people, I can't see most people rationalizing such a purchase.
I'm a Realms-junkie, and I doubt even I'd pay for a thing like that. Now... put every lineage on the website, and charge a dollar for each... and you have yourselves a winner.
But like I say, others may feel differently then me, so who knows? Some people feel about lineages the way I do about Maps, so to each his own.
and the biggest surprise for subscribers, I think, has been the complete lack of Realmslore... as promised.
I think once Eberon hits the shelves, it will be all over. That setting's 4e release will be the deal breaker or maker for 4e, I think. After that, the trend should become pretty obvious.
My biggest dislike is thus: “1,357 DR, Year of the Prince: In this year, on an alternate Material World known as Earth, Ed of the Greenwood assembles various travelogues, maps and other works from Elminster of Shadowdale into the first publications of the Forgotten Realms campaign setting”. I was never a fan of the concept that Ed Greenwood delivered Elminster’s notes to TSR, and that was how the Forgotten Realms came to be. I always found that notion silly, and was happy that 3e took a third-party narration approach, dispelling that form of presentation. Here, however, THGotR perpetuates the notion.
And as you already know, that was one of my favorite parts.
What you mean, UGH?! :headexplo
I think they should have left out all the text and just had one on every page!
Edit: I have to admit, I found the Crown Wars one very disappointing... where the hell is the North? You know... WHERE MOST OF THE FRIGGIN' WARS HAPPENED?!
-Remember the interactive Flash maps concept? Another great place for a theoretical one, with the Crown Wars.
Ugh?
What you mean, UGH?! :headexplo
I think they should have left out all the text and just had one on every page!
Edit: I have to admit, I found the Crown Wars one very disappointing... where the hell is the North? You know... WHERE MOST OF THE FRIGGIN' WARS HAPPENED?!
Sorry, I think they're ugly, with all the acidic greens and dirt browns, and hard to read. They looked like maps from a Nintendo game fifteen years ago. I much prefer your maps.
I thought you meant the fact of having maps at all.
I love maps - especially historic ones - so much, that I pretty much overlooked any 'uglines' they may have had. Still, you gotta admit, they are leaps and bounds better then the 4e Campaign one.
That someone spilled coffee on...
A book that to a large extend (I reckon some 70%) consists of copy & paste (and more often than not direct) stuff from source also available for free (none more so than Cormanthyr) should not get away with flying colours. As - no disrespect whatsoever to the compiler! - much of the work had been done by other authors and only a few edges had to be rounded off, some maps and pics to be added. Obviously, it is a must-have for any decent (modern day) FR-DM, as it compiles info from a number of sources into one book. But whether - since it is essentially foreboding the death of 3,XE - it will provide much use to the current readership remains to be seen. The "current" Realms run 100 years after TGHotR stops and much of what happens in those 100 years isn't nor will ever be touched, as 4E-Realmspace and products is geared for the post-Spellplague future of Faerûn. As much as it is interesting to these 4E customers to read about ancient realms, the latter will most likely never be supported nor will the info be of much use, as half of the Realms have changed dramatically too.
Then again, it all depends on what you hand these beholders out for ...
A book that to a large extend (I reckon some 70%) consists of copy & paste (and more often than not direct) stuff from source also available for free (none more so than Cormanthyr) should not get away with flying colours.
-With many of the same spelling and/or grammar errors.
-With many of the same spelling and/or grammar errors.
See, that should cost them at least enough eyestalks to chop one of the beholders off!
