I was flipping through the Forgotten Realms: Campaign Setting Guide and I was wondering, in which detailed section is Loudwater? By that I mean, where in the book is the area detailed which includes Loudwater and the surrounding areas? I am not talking about the first section of the book, but rather in the gazeteer section. I could not figure it out after flipping through it quickly.
Thanks.
The writers chose The Gray Vale as a sample area, which they chose to flesh out (as a kinda of, "this is a way to do it"). Therefor, they chose not to address it twice, and conserve space for other things.
18DELTA (Chosen of Cyric)
The FRCG and FRPG state that Loudwater sits at the confluence of the Delimbiyr and Grayflow. That's not exactly what I'm seeing on the map, but the lore trumps the map in this case. There also seem to be some discepancies between old lore and knew in this region.
The FRPG states that the Gray Vale has grown into a trade center in large part due to the success of Loudwater. My question concerns this riverborne trade. Is it coming up the Gray Flow only, or is there trade coming down the Delimbiyr as well? There isn't much upriver in 1479 DR timeframe.
Llorhk is a ruined city occupied by bandits, and obviously not a trading partner. The High Forest on the west bank of the Delimbiyr isn't exactly a welcoming place. Perhaps some trade takes place with the elves of the forest, but I can't see it being substantial. The Nether Mountains would seem to be a boundary prohibiting and sort of trade relationship between the Gray Vale and Luruar (aka the Silver Marches).
Am I missing anything? Or, is Loudwater the last stop for riverborne trade heading upriver from the Sword Coast and Secomber?
Thoughts?
The FRCG and FRPG state that Loudwater sits at the confluence of the Delimbiyr and Grayflow. That's not exactly what I'm seeing on the map, but the lore trumps the map in this case. There also seem to be some discepancies between old lore and knew in this region.
-The "old" map shows Loudwater on the banks of the Delimbiyr, so...The "new" map, apparently, is universally reviled. I don't think I've heard anyone say that they like the map, regardless if they like the new Forgotten Realms or not.
-The "old" map shows Loudwater on the banks of the Delimbiyr, so...The "new" map, apparently, is universally reviled. I don't think I've heard anyone say that they like the map, regardless if they like the new Forgotten Realms or not.
At a glance the new map is better looking, but in terms of utility, which is much more important, the FRCS map is far superior. The amount of detail in the old map(s) is so far superior that it's not even funny. Really. Not at all.
I'm actually looking at the "old" as I type, and Loudwater does indeed sit on the southern bank of the Delimbiyr, pretty much at the Delimbiyr/Grayflow confluence. I guess that clarifies the "new" cartographer's intent.
Looking at the old map, I'm now pretty certain that Loudwater has become the final stop for upriver trade on the Delimbiyr and Grayflow. It appears Llorkh was it before it fell into ruin, as I had thought.
Then again, maybe there's an Elven/Human Utopian Metropolis further upriver, ruled by a knightly lord of the Eldreth Veluuthra, that the cartographer couldn't squeeze in due to his GIANT, bold font. :rolleye2:
Maybe I should rethink all the maps I do....
You PREFER the look of the new map?
Maybe I should rethink all the maps I do....
I think the new map makes a much prettier picture. I think the old map makes a much better map.
I'd never sacrifice the functionality of the older in favor of the rich colors of the new. I'm not even sure that there couldn't have been a happy medium. I'm not a world reknowned FR Cartographer as some around here might be.
I love the new map at a glance, but am really let down once I actually need to use it.
Any plans for some post-Spellplague maps, Markus? You know, for your beloved fellow boards members?
You've seen what WotC has given us!
Have mercy! Note the excessive use of emoticons. It reeks of desperation!!Any plans for some post-Spellplague maps, Markus? You know, for your beloved fellow boards members?
I have eventual plans in that regard, but thus-far I've only done Returned Abeir.
Maybe right after I finish the east... but I haven't been working on that in awhile. :embarrass
I have eventual plans in that regard, but thus-far I've only done Returned Abeir.
Maybe right after I finish the east... but I haven't been working on that in awhile. :embarrass
Excellent news. Your maps are very well done, and I definitely intend to make use of some of them in future games.
I also have to say, it's cool seeing Returned Abeir rendered in the FRCS-style.
Was Loudwater added into the setting for the 4e books?
No, Loudwater predates 4E.
Thank you. I wasnt sure, but I never really remember seeing it in any older books. It wasn't as important, I guess.
You're welcome.
-Loudwater never was really 'important'. Still isn't, really.
Yep. It's probably less important than ever, honestly. It will likely appear in many more games, however, since it was detailed as the launching point for a FR Campaign in the FRCG.
My GM has actually taken my recent interest in this region (Gray Vale and High Forest) and run with it, changing the launch point for our FR Campaign to Loudwater and/or it's vicinity. While I'm certain I influenced his thinking, I in no way suggested such.
Our Gray Vale has a reclaimed fortress town (inspired by Fallcrest from the DMG) along the westernmost spur of the Gray Peaks, and small reclaimed dwarfhold a number of miles east of said town.
I immediately changed my Shadovar Swordmage to a Sun Elf Swordmage of Myth Drannor who is intent on seeing a new alliance of the goodly races in this region. If my PC has his way, the humans will prosper, the elves of the High Forest will rejoin the world beyond their forest home, and the dwarves might even resettle parts of Ammarindar. Lofty designs, no doubt, but that's how I roll. As it is, the GM has laid the groundwork for just that sort of thing :P
I could really see a good portion of our campaign taking place in the Gray Vale/High Forest/Gray Peaks. I would like to visit Myth Drannor at least once, though, seeing as that's my PC's home and all.
-I found it odd that it was Loudwater that received so much attention. I, personally, could do without all of those pages and adventure stuff, but I was a little surprised and/or confused as to why Loudwater was selected, in lieu of some other locale.
Yeah, I thought the same.
It did inspire me to pull out Lost Empires of Faerun, though, and brush up on the history of the region. You know how that goes... you start with the High Forest, then it's another region, then another...
-I found it odd that it was Loudwater that received so much attention. I, personally, could do without all of those pages and adventure stuff, but I was a little surprised and/or confused as to why Loudwater was selected, in lieu of some other locale.
They probably just wanted to use a small frontier town in the Heartlands without too much lore attached to it. It just so happened that they picked Loudwater.
Tallric mentions Lost Empires of Faerun. What sort of material can I find there?
Are there any novels that take place in the area?
Thanks.
I've read about Loudwater and some areas nearby in the old 2nd edition FR stuff that Wizards has for download, as well as in the new 4th edition books and the 3rd edition FRCS. What else can I read to get more background on the Grey Vale? Tallric mentions Lost Empires of Faerun. What sort of material can I find there? Are there any novels that take place in the area? Thanks.
This isn't necromancy. This thread was just sleeping.
It was odd stumbling upon a thread in which I participated so long ago on the second page of this forum. It's so sad to see how deserted things are. I was never a huge contributor to the FR community, but I did pass through quite a bit. It's just not the same with all the old loremasters gone.
Keith, I couldn't really have made any good suggestions then, nor can I now, long after such information would be useful to you. Hells, maybe you've moved on, as well. (So sad). It is interesting, though, that I just pulled Lost Empires of Faerun out of the closet, yet again. This time I was perusing Netheril. It's an okay resource, as such things go.
Oh, well. I guess I didn't have much to say, really, other than to comment on how much this community has changed in these last couple of years. :insert resigned sigh:
I haven't been following this forum recently either.
Thanks for the thought, Tallric. My campaign is slowly tooting along. After exhausting the published Loudwater adventures, the party moved west to Waterdeep.
I haven't been following this forum recently either.
I'm glad to here your campaign is still moving along. We had some serious stuff hit the fan that summer, and our campaign never got off the ground. We've recently discussed getting back into the Realms, and are looking toward the Neverwinter supplement with interest.
frloudwater.blogspot.com/
We had a TPK in the first session in the Barrow of the Ogre King. A new party, the Burning Hand, started in town and wiped out the Zelbross Slavers, then ventured into a ruined, goblin-haunted town in the South Wood for the Slaying Stone adventure, while another party dealt with the Menace of the Icy Spire. Recently they finally defeated the Lady of Shadows, and now at 4th level are heading for the upper Delimbiyr river beyond the Shining Falls, where a cult of Bane threatens the land in the adventure Heathen from Dungeon 155.
My Loudwater campaign is going along nicely. In case anyone might find useful material for their campaigns on my campaign blog, here's the link:
frloudwater.blogspot.com/
We had a TPK in the first session in the Barrow of the Ogre King. A new party, the Burning Hand, started in town and wiped out the Zelbross Slavers, then ventured into a ruined, goblin-haunted town in the South Wood for the Slaying Stone adventure, while another party dealt with the Menace of the Icy Spire. Recently they finally defeated the Lady of Shadows, and now at 4th level are heading for the upper Delimbiyr river beyond the Shining Falls, where a cult of Bane threatens the land in the adventure Heathen from Dungeon 155.
Very Cool ;)
If you´re interested in the details, check out this post in the Netheril-Thread: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
I used Loudwater and the Lady of Shadows as a starting point for a campaign involving the Shadovar from Netheril and their efforts to gain a hold in the region via old dwarven portals from Ammarindar and a Shar Cell that served as the vanguard for the Shadovar in the town of Llorkh (in my story, besides the slums and ruins there were the regent´s and the dwarven district still intact). The Adventure included a lot of old Ammarindar lore (in such detail that the PCs even had to investigate on an old ruthless merchants clan named Grimstone from Whitewater Mines, Ammarindar) a Shar-cult conspiracy and a climatic ending encounter against a Shade general, who they only could destroy after deactivating the portal and activating a lost shrine in the midst of battle against shadar-kai and undead. In between they completed a side quest by clearing draigdurroch tower (he had become a Skull Lord and by selling his soul and that of his wood-elven companion to orcus).
If you´re interested in the details, check out this post in the Netheril-Thread: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
Interesting stuff, thanks!