is there any connection between him and the Shoon dynasty?
tough it would be interesting that there's some link
The further you go back into Realmslore the more you'll find people, places and even gods having same or similar sounding names. This was done on purpose in order to get our thinking caps going.
I also talked about it with George Krashos (both of them over at CK in their threads), because he is working on a Calimshan lineage (including the Imperium).
He also didn't shoot-down the possibility.
It says nothing else about it in AGHotR
I had postulated over at Ck that I thought it went something like this -
Manshoon was a Shoon, but distantly related to the throne (which no-longer even exists). Even if the Shoon Imperium was still around, his ancestor wouldn't have been in-line for the throne (unless a LOT of people died... which does happen sometimes).
Since the collapse of the Imperium, his branch of the family fell on hard times, and wound-up being indebted to another noble family, whom they couldn't pay back. Eventually they were forced to be servants (slaves, really) to pay back the debt, and that is the environment Manshoon was born into.
He was told stories (by his mother) of his family's glorious past, and he proudly insisted on everyone calling him 'The Shoon' as a child... which lead to much mockery and not a few lumps. The other servants simply took to calling him "the Boy, Shoon" more in jest then anything else.
The head of the Calishite household his family was serving was a mage of no little talent, and little Shoon was made his personal 'boy' (attendent). From watching the old Geezer and sneeking peaks at his books, the child was able to learn some of the basics of Sorcery, and finally cast a cantrip on his own at only 10 years old! By the time he was fourteen, he had manged to learn a few real spells (level two), and decided to run-away (knowing full-well that it is a crime in Calimshan for slaves to learn magic).
Technically, since his family was serving a debt they were 'Indentured servants', and he was not born a slave (although he was treated as one), so when he fled, his master merely had his mother beaten and never bothered to seek the boy.
Years later, after many adventures and building his own magical prowess, he returned to buy his mother's freedom and that of the rest of his family. By then his mother had died, and the Patriarch had sold off the remaining family members to pay debts of his own (his magical research lead to him squandering the family fortune). It turns out that he had sold them to Drow of the Mir Forest.
When he found this all out (from other servants whom he knew in the past), he confronted the old Wizard, who merely sneered and said "It is the Boy Shoon, my property returned at last!".
"I am a Boy no longer, old man", said the seething ex-slave, " I am the Man, Shoon... and I am your death!"
And with that he slew the old mage, took his magic and his wealth, and left (freeing all the other slaves in the process). The story of "the Man Shoon" spread through the Lands of Intrigue, and the name stuck.
That was many, MANY years ago, and as his power grew, so too did his bitterness. Eventually he came to Zhentil keep, where he saw a future for himself, and none would now of his past...
I got it
Toss in a couple Jedi and this guy
then switch up a few of the facts and voila. You have Anakin Skywalker. 
;)I would even add-in that he is still trying to rescue his mother's soul from Mephisto... if you're going 'Doom', you might as well go all the way.
I'm just not seeing Aniken at all in that.
There is a list of NPC's which are under the NDA?
yea I wondered about that too, how they know what's under NDA
According to Ed, Ironfang Keep is under an old, on-going NDA, so he is never allowed to talk about it (it was licensed to a VG company)... yet Brian wrote an article about it.
That tells me Ed knew about the NDA, and Brian didn't, and somehow the article slipped through the cracks (or more likely, no one's really 'stearing' this ship anymore).
I think many of the old NDAs should be voided-out at this point, since a century has gone by and there's really no reason not to talk about stuff thats long gone (who's going to be using it now?)
Boy born into servitude(both)
One runs away, one is rescued by jedi
Both return and avenge the death of their mother(thus leading one down the path of evil, and not sure if Manshoon was already evil or not).
Just the overall similarities in their stories MT. That's where I saw Anakin;)
, and he made his own destinty.He also didn't build Spelljammers or Warforged. :P
He may have killed younglings.....
Except for the 'went back to save his mother' thing (which is an old trope), I'm not seeing it - Manshoon NEVER pretended to be good. He was all about the 'dark side' from day one.
Didn't Artemis Entreri do the same thing as well?
It's interesting to think of the parallels--both empires (the Shoon and the short-lived Zhent) relied upon powerful dark magic, both were formed around secretive magocratic cabals, both were destroyed by new coming forces (Barbarians in the former, the Shades in the latter), and both were focused solely on world domination for its own sake... I would imagine that Bane was pretty popular around those parts back in the day as well... and Manshoon was oddly interested (and successful) in expanding the Zhentarim to areas like the Lake of Steam where the Shoon once held considerable influence (and where other exiled nobility of that Empire may have settled).
I can imagine that a cadet branch of the royal family would try to keep some of the family traditions going, perhaps generations later a whisper or two might be passed onto a talented scion about 'past glory' and 'birthright.'
I've always thought the name "Manshoon" sounded a bit off... it may well be a nomme de guerre that was adopted at some point in his early career.
Anything more than that would probably be jumping the shark, but it's pretty easy to create some kind of connection.
Now, what the re-incarnated Shoon VII has to say about all this is anyone's guess......
It would be referred to as "jumping the Aboleth". :P
I freely admit it was corny, but sometimes corny can be good too (as long as its not overdone everywhere).
The only other ways to spin it is to have his MOTHER first travel north with a branch of the Shoon family (perhaps fleeing persecution after the fall of the Empire), and SHE was a powerful Moonsea sorceress known simply as 'The Shoon', and when her son rises to take her place (perhaps after killing her), he is known as 'The Man-Shoon' (which is just as corny). Or, conversely, his name is actually much longer (like a Gnome's or a Dragon's), and that is just the shortened form which he's been using for so long he probably barely remembers his real name.
His name could have been Mantovoreal-Abudra'bie Shoon, and he just goes by Man-Shoon now (because by the time he finished monologuing and introducing himself to his foes - as all true vilains do while sneering - they would have blasted the crap out of him). Thats why BBEG's should always have tiny names. ;)
Had
Ao
Remake the realms into what is now the 4e realms
There the letters S-H-A-R used in relation(and in that order) to the theory of everything. Not as impossible as it appeared is it LK
:P ;)I could also connect all of the things with 'shar' in them to Shar, but that would be really reaching. Some may be cool (I've connected Tsharoon to Shar worship... but I may change that), but most would be a BIG stretch.
If something sounds like a good fit, I use it. If it becomes a bit too convoluted, I give-up trying (after awhile).
I could also conect all of the things with 'shar' in them to Shar, but that would be really reaching. Some may be cool (I've connected Tsharoon to Shar worship... but I may change that), but most would be a BIG stretch.
-That's what I mean (to DMC): Linking things that sound similar, based simply on that, or that share some letters or words in common, often doesn't make sense.
-In Manshoon's case, given that we don't know very much about his early childhood, upbringing, heritage, and so on, I don't think it's as much a "reach for straws" to link him with the Shoon Imperium in some way, but rather, more like a "leap of faith". Ultimatley, like I said, if it weren't for the similarities with the name (or if we had some reasoning for what 'Manshoon' means, if anything, or how he got the name, or whatever else), I don't think the grounds for a connection of the two would be as strong.
-That's what I mean (to DMC): Linking things that sound similar, based simply on that, or that share some letters or words in common, often doesn't make sense.
-In Manshoon's case, given that we don't know very much about his early childhood, upbringing, heritage, and so on, I don't think it's as much a "reach for straws" to link him with the Shoon Imperium in some way, but rather, more like a "leap of faith". Ultimatley, like I said, if it weren't for the similarities with the name (or if we had some reasoning for what 'Manshoon' means, if anything, or how he got the name, or whatever else), I don't think the grounds for a connection of the two would be as strong.
I know LK, Just added a little humor to the topic. ;)
Quite possibly THE most epic hero EVA? :D
Not the NPC, just his history (or, at least, parts of it).
I had postulated over at Ck that I thought it went something like this -
Manshoon was a Shoon, but distantly related to the throne (which no-longer even exists). Even if the Shoon Imperium was still around, his ancestor wouldn't have been in-line for the throne (unless a LOT of people died... which does happen sometimes).
Since the collapse of the Imperium, his branch of the family fell on hard times, and wound-up being indebted to another noble family, whom they couldn't pay back. Eventually they were forced to be servants (slaves, really) to pay back the debt, and that is the environment Manshoon was born into.
Um, MT, there's one really big problem with your idea - from Ruins of Zhentil Keep, we know that Manshoon was born into a life of privilege, the son of Harlshoon, first lord of Zhentil Keep.
Um, MT, there's one really big problem with your idea - from Ruins of Zhentil Keep, we know that Manshoon was born into a life of privilege, the son of Harlshoon, first lord of Zhentil Keep.
Well since his father was called Harlshoon, I'm inclined to think that the part "shoon" in his name could signify "son of" a bit like the ''Mac" in gaelic...
Um, MT, there's one really big problem with your idea - from Ruins of Zhentil Keep, we know that Manshoon was born into a life of privilege, the son of Harlshoon, first lord of Zhentil Keep.
Old lore - no longer relevant. :P
Anyhow, then my second scenario works - the one where his mother was just known as 'The Shoon' (just change it to his father instead). Either way, the rest fits fine.