I know with Eberron, we had the entire globe in the main book. Wish they would do that to this world, and now especially since they have gotten it into the RPGA Living system.In one instance it says Maztica was replaced in its entirely. In another (on page 132) is says “An echo of the fey refuge remains in Toril as an isle with the same shape and diameter, lying off the coast of the unfamiliar continent of Returned Abeir.”
I read this as Returned Abeir replacing the lands *North* of Maztica. Using the scale provided on both 4E maps, you also find that Returned Abeir isn’t all that big a place; hardly deserving the continent moniker.
In this map, Returned Abeir is visible on the left, Faerûn on the far right, with the isle of Evermeet (or its echo at least) in the middle. The lands of Maztica are south of Returned Abeir and the land/isles of Anchorome are to the north. The continent of Katashaka is off the map to the south.
Ok, I've been reading the campaign guide since I got it and it talks about these other continents that populate Toril. However, I've never seen any kind of maps for these other continents or where they lie in relation to Faerun.
-Information on Kara-Tur can be found in the Oriental Adventures books. Information on Zakhara can be found in the al-Qadim books. Information on Maztica can be found in the Maztica books. Information on Osse can be found in the novel Lady of Poison. Information on Anchorome can be found in Ed Greenwood's replies at Candlekeep.
I have not seen an entire map of the Toril's globe? Not in the old books and certainly not in this new one. Is there ever going to be one?
-See the FRCS.
Here is a mercader style map of the Toril circa 1375 DR, which shows Katashaka (lower left), Zakhara (lower right), and parts of Kara-Tur (far east).
Using the scale provided on both 4E maps, you also find that Returned Abeir isn’t all that big a place; hardly deserving the continent moniker.
That's apparently an issue common with several D&D campaign settings. By way of comparison, here's a map someone made in which they put every single setting onto a single Earth-sized planet. I believe the intention was to take the published sizes of the various landmasses and see if it was possible to fit them all onto a world the size of Earth.
Check out Birthright and Dragonlance in comparison to the rest. Nevermind Ravenloft, which is positively tiny.
I put together a quick map of I how I see the Trackless Sea in 1479 DR. The FRCG is a little inconsistent in places regarding the exact location of Returned Abeir.
In one instance it says Maztica was replaced in its entirely. In another (on page 132) is says “An echo of the fey refuge remains in Toril as an isle with the same shape and diameter, lying off the coast of the unfamiliar continent of Returned Abeir.”
I read this as Returned Abeir replacing the lands *North* of Maztica. Using the scale provided on both 4E maps, you also find that Returned Abeir isn’t all that big a place; hardly deserving the continent moniker.
In this map, Returned Abeir is visible on the left, Faerûn on the far right, with the isle of Evermeet (or its echo at least) in the middle. The lands of Maztica are south of Returned Abeir and the land/isles of Anchorome are to the north. The continent of Katashaka is off the map to the south.
But as it is stated that Maztica was largely replaced by Abeir more than once, wouldn't it be sensible to asume that the Evermeet reference is either a typo or that the Echo of Evermeet shifted position to the south (Not much if you asume, that it lies to the north-eastern shores of Returned-Abeir)?
Amn pg.92 states that it's colonies across the sea vanished. Taking that Abeir is a mirror of Faerun, wouldn't it be fitting, that the horseshoe-shaped Abeir-part replaced the also roughly horseshoe-shaped middlepart of Maztica (on the Bozeman-map the part actually labeld Maztica, with the two colony-cities in the north)? Meaning the northern and southern parts of Maztica might still exist.
On the other hand you are correct that Returned Abeir (could someone offical please write what the natives call their continent? I know that it's eastern neighbour was called Shyr, but a native name for R.A. itself would be nice) is small and it's of a more northern climate. but it's a magical world after all and if R.A. kept it's steelgrey sky, maybe the primordial powers also kept the cooler climate intact?
Best wishes
Lirdolin
Amn pg.92 states that it's colonies across the sea vanished. Taking that Abeir is a mirror of Faerun, wouldn't it be fitting, that the horseshoe-shaped Abeir-part replaced the also roughly horseshoe-shaped middlepart of Maztica (on the Bozeman-map the part actually labeld Maztica, with the two colony-cities in the north)? Meaning the northern and southern parts of Maztica might still exist.
Oh I realize my placement of Returned Abeir is supported by flimsy evidence. But I see it as the best of both worlds as the lands north of Maztica were never given much detail in previous sourcebooks. This way both Maztica and Returned Abeir can co-exist if you want to (in your home campaign).
One thing to keep in mind is that world Abeir is a mirror of Toril as it existed in -31,000 DR before The Sundering. So Abeir today (assuming it didn't suffer its own world shattering cataclysm) would look very much like the supercontinent of Merrouroboros depicted in the Grand History of the Realms page 6. If so, then Returned Abeir is actually the landmass labled 'Aearee Enclaves' on that map, which was known in later days as the dragon empire of Myrmidune.
On the other hand you are correct that Returned Abeir (could someone offical please write what the natives call their continent? I know that it's eastern neighbour was called Shyr, but a native name for R.A. itself would be nice) is small and it's of a more northern climate. but it's a magical world after all and if R.A. kept it's steelgrey sky, maybe the primordial powers also kept the cooler climate intact?
Shyr was a single kingdom from Abeir, not a continent. Since Ed Greenwood designed Returned Abeir I'll ask him what the natives call their land and get back to you.
Oh I realize my placement of Returned Abeir is supported by flimsy evidence. But I see it as the best of both worlds as the lands north of Maztica were never given much detail in previous sourcebooks. This way both Maztica and Returned Abeir can co-exist if you want to (in your home campaign).
(...)
Shyr was a single kingdom from Abeir, not a continent. Since Ed Greenwood designed Returned Abeir I'll ask him what the natives call their land and get back to you.
That would be nice of you.
And according to the FRCG pg. 200 Shyr was the eastern continent that was not transportet to Toril. Although pg.90 calls it a realm. But it doesn't actually matter what Shyr is, as it remains on Abeir.
I would have loved Maztica ( and Unther and Mulhorand) to stay where it was, but I try to stick to canon if a book tells me that a continentsize chunk of Land is gone ;)
I change smaller things or rework lands that aren't described. But who knows, maybe the cities of Nexal or Payit are now located on earthmotes hovering above the Lopango Lands, if I have need of them.
Best wishes
Lirdolin
From a science point of view, I see a small problem with the sizes of the continents involved. In Faerun, the sea level did not drop along the Sword Coast, yet if you removed a continent the size of Maztica, and replaced it with one the size of Abeir, you would think you would see a noticeable drop. Unless a large volume of ocean was taken from Abeir as well, and that means some funky new sea creatures out there.
You have to remember that for one, this is a fantasy game. And two, Faerun is a very magical world and what happened during the Spellplague was the result of a great deal of magic being shattered and reworked and a lot of other things. So, trying to put science into it just wont work.
Here is a mercader style map of the Toril circa 1375 DR, which shows Katashaka (lower left), Zakhara (lower right), and parts of Kara-Tur (far east).
That is one gorgeous map. I'd love to see it extended to the entirety of Toril.
jus' sayin'.
But who knows, maybe the cities of Nexal or Payit are now located on earthmotes hovering above the Lopango Lands, if I have need of them.
Very interesting...
It would be even greater to have it in colour...
and to have the entire world !
I find it interesting to have a remnant of South Maztica... that way this realm is not entirely destroyed and could develop itself another has an aspect of Mayan ways. 100 years with technology of faerun maybe some Amnians or Tethyrian lord would have survived and create is own Kingdom.
Also, will Katashaka be described one day ?
Also, will Katashaka be described one day ?
-With Katashaka, "those who be" say to use the 3rd Party Nyambe setting as a pseudo-official version of it.
-With Katashaka, "those who be" say to use the 3rd Party Nyambe setting as a pseudo-official version of it.
hmm think not... sorry, but it would not be appropriate to the New Forgotten Realms ! Getting rid of Maztica, Unther and Mulhorand and keeping like an "african" setting... no no no...
Better make it a Tiefling Warlock Empire !! (insert Star Wars Empire Theme) :P
hmm think not... sorry, but it would not be appropriate to the New Forgotten Realms ! Getting rid of Maztica, Unther and Mulhorand and keeping like an "african" setting... no no no...
Better make it a Tiefling Warlock Empire !! (insert Star Wars Empire Theme) :P
-Just saying...It'd be weird of Nyambe to have been good in the past as the semi-official "stand in", and then have it not suddenly be good, now.
-Don't forget that the world is hollow, there, and that there's more stuff inside that map!
I actually have to wonder just how large that planet must be.
I actually have to wonder just how large that planet must be.
-Jupiter size...