Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 elsenrail Jul 24, 2008 14:22:28	Something is wrong with the Amn and Chult maps - Athkatla and Port Nyranzaru... are ports, so why are they so far away from the sea? You have to be complete idiot making a map and placing something named "Port" away from the sealine. It seems this mistakes will be in the FRCG, since the previews are parts of the book.
#2 markustay63 Jul 24, 2008 14:28:51	Yes, I pointed that out already in another thread - EXTREMELY sloppy map-making, IMHO.
#3 uzzy Jul 24, 2008 14:33:11	4th edition FR is a mistake, full stop. Errors like that just show the lack of care given to production at WoTC.
#4 leiril Jul 24, 2008 14:35:52	Maybe a god let a big mountain fall on the world, frustrated that he/she must die and that shaped a new world, rivers dried out, coastlines got reshaped?
#5 bonemonkey Jul 24, 2008 14:40:23	maybe its not a port for ships? air ships?
#6 leiril Jul 24, 2008 14:47:17	maybe its not a port for ships? air ships? Houston, we have a problem! Spelljammer, heh? Never played that, only heard of it. Have the Wizard plans to restart it?
#7 bonemonkey Jul 24, 2008 14:51:06	also where are these maps i can't find them ?
#8 leiril Jul 24, 2008 15:00:28	Chult is here: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/FRPreview_Chult.jpg Strange, I can't remember that it was an island, wasn't it a peninsula connected to Halruaa? I'm still seraching for Amn. Edit: Amn -> http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/intheworks_frcg_1.jpg
#9 bonemonkey Jul 24, 2008 15:07:15	I look at the website several times a day how could i have missed these ?
#10 leiril Jul 24, 2008 15:09:09	The new webdesign of them is terrible. I find things only through the search engine. Is it only my problem, that when I'm clicking on the button for the FR that I get only a nice picture but the same news like on the mainpage of D&D?
#11 calabask Jul 24, 2008 15:10:14	I would say that the map isn't exactly made directly to scale. While they show Athlaka marked, I'm thinking that the port is located by the rivers that head out to sea, or perhaps the city extends to the west. I might be wrong, but these are my theories as to why the city is situated as it is, not because it's marked wrong, but because like maps in real life, a dot doesn't show all the details of the city it is over.
#12 the_ubbergeek Jul 24, 2008 15:21:22	Well, names change as much as situations around. Quebec was very, very catholic, you see a LOT of Saint-X towns and villages... The names didn't change with the 60s societal and laicity. Maybe some of those towns *used* to be ports and all that... in the past... and nobody cared to change the names? Or there is rivers, lakes and the like? Freshwater ports... Map too high to show them?
#13 markustay63 Jul 24, 2008 15:27:56	I'm thinking these MUST be 'fast & dirty' versions of the REAL maps that were just quickly thrown-together for the web-excerpts. Because, if these are the finished versions from the FRCG...
#14 the_ubbergeek Jul 24, 2008 15:31:39	Again, this miss the possible effects of the geologic changes VS legacy and the issue with map scaling and details. It's not even new in D&D; Dragonlance had the famous *port* town of Tarsis(?) in the south... Who became inland after the apocalypse.
#15 bonemonkey Jul 24, 2008 15:37:38	Chult is here: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/FRPreview_Chult.jpg Strange, I can't remember that it was an island, wasn't it a peninsula connected to Halruaa? I'm still seraching for Amn. Edit: Amn -> http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/intheworks_frcg_1.jpg wow thank you its not even on the archive http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4arch/ex&page=2 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20080717a how did you find it ?
#16 elsenrail Jul 24, 2008 15:41:15	There is even another mistake. The trade road (through the Cload Peaks) should go north from Crimmor, not Athkatla. Jesus...these maps are utter crap! Not to say that I dislike the colours. And the lack of details. 3e map was far better.
#17 18DELTA Jul 24, 2008 16:47:25	-Markus I have a feeling that when we finally get to crack open a 4E FRCG for the first time. We will be getting these same bland and boring maps. :embarrass -The Cormyr Map is awesome, makes me wonder 'why' BRJ Want's to have B. Shely(sp) on all his web-articles. Maybe BRJ doesn't want this crud defiling his web-article? 18DELTA :embarrass
#18 markustay63 Jul 24, 2008 17:41:35	Can't say I blame him - his map puts mine to shame (but then, I don't make any claims about being an 'artist'). ;) The sad part is, I know I could've done more with these new maps, and thats just sad, because all I do is copy and paste... a lot... and some other stuff... -Markus I have a feeling that when we finally get to crack open a 4E FRCG for the first time. We will be getting these same bland and boring maps. Seriously - if they did that, I think that would be the final straw. Those are garbage anyone with a ½ an hour and Photoshop could've thrown together.
#19 surgebuster Jul 24, 2008 17:45:19	Something is wrong with the Amn and Chult maps - Athkatla and Port Nyranzaru... are ports, so why are they so far away from the sea? You have to be complete idiot making a map and placing something named "Port" away from the sealine. It seems this mistakes will be in the FRCG, since the previews are parts of the book. Here's a tip, those ports were there pre-spellplague. If the esteemed FR scholars on these boards haven't told you yet, a little something happened to the sea level over the past 90-odd years. I wouldn't say "you have to be a complete idiot" to miss that, but I would suggest doing some research before choosing to make those kind of accusations. Joe
#20 markustay63 Jul 24, 2008 17:49:34	No, but you'd have to be a complete idiot to think the Sea level in the Inner Sea had ANYTHING to do with that of the Outer oceans.
#21 18DELTA Jul 24, 2008 17:56:18	Seriously - if they did that, I think that would be the final straw. Those are garbage anyone with a ½ an hour and Photoshop could've thrown together. -Well look at the Chult Excerpt. The map will be in chapter 6 on page 103 in the FRCG. I think that every little snippit will have a total useless map. -Hey Markus have you compiled all of the links for your FAQ Thread? It would make it easier to find different links. Just a thought. If not I may create a thread with all of the 4E FR Links.(Countdown Articles, Excerpts, yada-yada) It would probably need to be stickied, and with LK on vacation that would have to wait. 18DELTA :embarrass
#22 surgebuster Jul 24, 2008 17:58:53	No, but you'd have to be a complete idiot to think the Sea level in the Inner Sea had ANYTHING to do with that of the Outer oceans. Yeah, I suppose that continent-sized rifts opening up in the earth wouldn't affect the Outer oceans in any way at all. Because, you know, it's much easier to just assume that WotC are complete idiots than devote a modicum of thought as to why the maps are this way. After all, the answers won't be available to the public for a couple of weeks when the FRCG is released, right? Plenty of opportunity to bash WotC on the boards before then!
#23 uzzy Jul 24, 2008 18:13:38	They certainly didn't have any affect on the sea near Cormyr, going by the map in the new Cormyr article. But hey, I suppose logical design isn't one of the aims in the new Realms.
#24 iakhovas Jul 24, 2008 18:27:15	Actually... You'll notice in the Cormyr map that the port cities of Ilipur and Pros are now landlocked ruins, the shallow southwest coast of the Dragonmere suffering the most from the lowering of the Inner Sea. The new coastal village of Accardi has been settled in an area that was previously underwater. Valkur's Roar was established above the great falls where the Tun River cascades fifty feet into the Dragonmere. But yeah, wait until you see the Inner Sea proper. It's quite obvious. They certainly didn't have any affect on the sea near Cormyr, going by the map in the new Cormyr article.
#25 uzzy Jul 24, 2008 18:31:09	Pros is a landlocked ruin? Not that clear, as it's fairly close to the sea in the map, if not directly on it.
#26 elsenrail Jul 24, 2008 18:32:30	is released, right? Plenty of opportunity to bash WotC on the boards before then! 2 out of 3 maps have errors. Impressive, most impressive. Errors don't realate to ports only. As I stated before, the description of Amn's north trade road contradicts the map (the road goes through Crimmor, not directly from Athkatla through Cload Peaks).
#27 surgebuster Jul 24, 2008 18:48:09	Well, if Brian refuting some of the 'errors' doesn't convince people to stop griping, then what chance do I have? It's not like we have access to additional material or anything, so what would we know?
#28 iakhovas Jul 24, 2008 18:54:28	Not sure what to say then. We're definately seeing two different things. On the map I'm viewing, Pros is even further away from the shore of the Dragonmere than Ilipur. Judging by the map scale, Pros is about 5 miles from the Dragonmore. Anyone else see Pros (or Haunted Ilipur) directly along the Dragonmere? Pros is a landlocked ruin? Not that clear, as it's fairly close to the sea in the map, if not directly on it.
#29 markustay63 Jul 24, 2008 19:18:33	What a map SHOULD look like. I'm going to do a super-imposey thing for Cormyr, so folks can see it for themselves better, Brian. ;) Edit: Ummmmm... forget it... it all lines up perfectly with the old map Brian, I swear - I'm doing a fade in-and-out and the coastline doesn't change AT ALL.
#30 iakhovas Jul 24, 2008 20:21:11	That's likely my fault Mark. I didn't move the coastline in the reference map I submitted.
#31 SirUrza Jul 24, 2008 20:26:31	Why are you guys surprised? They couldn't get their own lore (forget TSR era lore) correct for 3e supplements, why on earth would they be able to get all the changes they've made for 4e correct? Spell Plague.
#32 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Jul 24, 2008 20:48:03	Edit: Ummmmm... forget it... it all lines up perfectly with the old map Brian, I swear - I'm doing a fade in-and-out and the coastline doesn't change AT ALL. Heh, that's pretty interesting.
#33 markustay63 Jul 24, 2008 20:52:17	Seriously Brian - I was trying to prove YOUR point, but I have to be truthful... when it suits me. ;) Honestly, I thought it looked different (just as you did), but then as I toggled the opacity bar in PS the coastline remained static, and I was like WTF? Thats not the map from the FRCG, though, is it? The campaign map should have the coastlines correctly altered, I would imagine. Still, a very beautiful map, so I have NO complaints. I found it inspiring.
#34 leiril Jul 25, 2008 5:42:09	wow thank you its not even on the archive http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4arch/ex&page=2 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20080717a how did you find it ? With the search engine of wizard. The little field, uh, wait, at the top (right, or left side? well i think right). There I have searched for amn and under some of the entries is the map. Like I said, the new webdesign is terrible. Heh, that's pretty interesting It's pretty confusing, uhm, what should I see (or don't see) on the map? Well maybe I need some glases. :D
#35 rjfras Jul 26, 2008 0:26:35	Chult is here: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/FRPreview_Chult.jpg Strange, I can't remember that it was an island, wasn't it a peninsula connected to Halruaa? I'm still seraching for Amn. Edit: Amn -> http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/intheworks_frcg_1.jpg What was once called Halruaa detonated and was destroyed when every inscribed and prepared spell in the nation went off simultaneously. This explosion was partly to blame for destroying the land bridge between Chult and the Shining South—only a scattered archipelago remains.
#36 sfdragon Jul 26, 2008 3:21:17	Chult is here: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/FRPreview_Chult.jpg Strange, I can't remember that it was an island, wasn't it a peninsula connected to Halruaa?[/url] and I though Halruaa either got flooded or was blown up. island now edit: oops was beaten to it
#37 sir_evets Jul 26, 2008 4:01:24	I remember the shift from 2ed to 3ed and the map changes. Whole towns, cities and mountain ranges suddenly shifted. Different artist/cartographers will do different things to the map and I expect no difference with the shift from 3.x to 4ed. That and its WotC. Steve Kendall RPGA @ KublaCon
#38 lord_tirian Jul 26, 2008 7:21:34	The Chult and Amn maps are horrible. Photoshop is a viable way to make maps (heck, I use it to make maps myself!), but it just looks too obvious. They're not really pretty - and for the FR, I'd really prefer maps looking more "drawn", like the Cormyr map. Cheers, LT.
#39 lobotaru Jul 26, 2008 9:07:02	Just to correct someone who said something about being able to do that map in 30 mins on photoshop. From personal experience in designing stuff with the Adobe Suite, that's probably more like an hour at the least. This looks almost like a scan though, as opposed to being the actual digital file. They shouldn't have made the map have such a dirty look to the maps, since the design purpose of a map is to be as clear and concise as posslble. I agree that the previous addition maps were of better quality. However, it also depends on how the book is being made. The dirtier look to the maps might compliment the book in some way. We won't know until we get to see it of course, but still. Edit: Woopsies. Forgot you could use the old map graphic as a background to trace from. Yup. You could do that in 30 mins. My bad :P Also, judging from the colors on those maps I'd have to say those are the CMYK color versions of the maps and not the RGB color versions. I could be wrong though. If I'm right, however, then those maps should be replaced with their RGB versions.
#40 old_sage Jul 26, 2008 10:38:39	I remember the shift from 2ed to 3ed and the map changes. Whole towns, cities and mountain ranges suddenly shifted. Different artist/cartographers will do different things to the map and I expect no difference with the shift from 3.x to 4ed. That and its WotC. Steve Kendall RPGA @ KublaCon Aye. The map designers for the FRCS at WotC changed the world maps and many of the local maps. A series of articles here at WotC explains this somewhat:- http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fr/20010503 There were also a series of articles in DRAGON that explained the changes to the world and the FR maps between 2e and 3e.
#41 markustay63 Jul 26, 2008 11:52:06	Just to correct someone who said something about being able to do that map in 30 mins on photoshop. Working off my old version, I did this in about an hour - 4e Map of Chult I could have easily banged out that other monstrosity in a ½ hour. ;) Anyway, I'd first like to apologize for one thing - it appears that Chult is that close to Calimshan, despite what some of us thought. It all depends on how far back you pull the 'camera angle'. Caveats - Calimshan shows all 2e/3e locales - the LFR guys say that this is the Realm of Memnon now, but that excerpt map still shows the name 'Calimshan' across the region (which would make little sense, since Memnon and Calim were bitter enemies). Next, RB says Lantan was "Hit Hard" - that means that small piece of it showing might not even exist anymore. I assumed at the very least all coastal cities would have been wiped out, hence the 'Ruins of Anchoril'. The 4e Map shows Thindol 'wiped clean', but I included all the cities as ruins anyway - it's up to the individual DM to decide if they are there or not. The inland settlements I left intact, also for the DM to decide. I also broke off the Mountain Chain along Labrand's Folly, which makes much more sense to me (where'd the mountains go?), and I'm sure the 4e 'Cartographer' (and I use that word losely) was completely unaware of that piece of Lore. Lastly, I didn't modify Samarch at all. Its on the southern coast, and I have no idea how hard it was hit - Once agan left up to the DM weather it survived, was destroyed, or something new lives there. Bear in mind several locations and names were taken from my 3e map, and not all are canon - for instance, Amra's Bay and Belit were both lifted from the Conan stories (although both were people, not locations), because I just love the idea of 'Black Corsairs' in FR. :D Certain other names were taken from canon sources, from local gods and what-not, but were not used in the manner in which I used them. Lastly, 'The Bay of Boars' is a play on words - my fantasy version of 'the Bay of Pigs'. :P *All other settlements are canon, except Kuluth-Mar, which was taken from the WE conversion for the Savage Tide adventure Path to FR in Dragon Magazine. Port Castilgar was moved from its original canon location to better match the text in the 2e source - the changes to the 3e maps made the original location more inaccurate then the official placement on the 2e map. If it bothers you, say the few people that lived their changed location after something bad happened. ;) --- Enjoy, Mark Edit: I almost forgot - I renamed the Shining Sea just because I was waxing poetic about the Old Realms - take it with a grain of salt.
#42 markustay63 Jul 26, 2008 11:56:52	Accidental DP, sorry.
#43 18DELTA Jul 26, 2008 13:56:05	-Nice. I like the Broken Dreams part. :D 18DELTA
#44 markustay63 Jul 26, 2008 15:59:35	Well, I figure all those 'Chultan States' (Lapaliiya, Tashalar, Thindol, & Samarach) probably had dreams of becoming mercantile powers someday, and now all those dreams were washed away in an instant by the Spellplague and the sea.
#45 darth_azalin Jul 26, 2008 20:28:11	Houston, we have a problem! Spelljammer, heh? Never played that, only heard of it. Have the Wizard plans to restart it? Airships were found in D&D long before Spelljammer even was a thought.
#46 markustay63 Jul 26, 2008 21:11:59	Yup Mystara - one of the BEST settings ever produced - had them, and even had an entire sourcebook line devoted to the travels of one. :D
#47 darth_azalin Jul 26, 2008 21:13:59	Yup Mystara - one of the BEST settings ever produced - had them, and even had an entire sourcebook line devoted to the travels of one. :D That is where I was going... But seriously D3... Vault of the Drow.
#48 markustay63 Jul 26, 2008 22:57:44	Or you could just point out the Spaceship in Expedition to the Barrier Peaks for the ultimate in 'Spelljammer' action. :P
#49 lobotaru Jul 28, 2008 10:47:41	Blarg, my original post looks terrible. Guess we all have those days.
#50 alienfreak Jul 28, 2008 11:36:16	Houston, we have a problem! Spelljammer, heh? Never played that, only heard of it. Have the Wizard plans to restart it? Read the Novels of Elaine Cunningham. Elves do have some Spelljammer ships made after a ship of the elven empire which crashlanded there. Thats until 4th edition at least. The realms suck now anyway
#51 markustay63 Jul 28, 2008 12:01:30	There are at least half a dozen 'nods' to Spelljamming in 3e, and officially it did still exist, but they (WotC) chose not to make any direct mention of it so that each group could decide for themselves if it was right for their version of the Realms. Spelljammer is one of those settings you either Hate or Love - there's no in-between, and rather then alienating one group or the other, they came up with that elegant solution - it's still there, but only if you want it to be. I'm sure it will be handled the same way in 4e, but with the major changes to the Cosmology I would say that the Phlogiston should just become the Astral, and lose all the rules regarding air while there.
#52 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Jul 28, 2008 12:37:09	I expect to see nods to Spelljammer in 4E, but no emphasis on those elements in the Realms.
#53 leiril Jul 28, 2008 13:58:18	Read the Novels of Elaine Cunningham. Elves do have some Spelljammer ships made after a ship of the elven empire which crashlanded there. That's where I have heard/read about it ;) But as I wrote, I've never seen or read more than that and certainly not played a Spelljammer thing. I think it is interesting, but for space travel I would like a more normal space ship and not a flying crystal butterfly. :D It is one thing I never understood, why built it with this bubble of air which needs a strong wizard to hold it in place and not built an airtight hull so you do not need to be exposed to the airless space in case of trouble? Another Question, the thing in BG2 which is used by the Gith in the drow city, was that a spelljammer ship?
#54 alienfreak Jul 28, 2008 14:27:35	Because we are in High Fantasy? Things work like that there... I think it was rather an airship...
#55 leiril Jul 28, 2008 14:36:14	Because we are in High Fantasy? Things work like that there... Oh, what a nice unusable answer. I asked for a why and maybe there existed an ingame answer in the rules to it, thats what I wanted to know, because I have not read any rules about spelljamming.
#56 markustay63 Jul 28, 2008 15:10:46	Spelljamming was fine if you played it on it's own (as it was meant), and didn't try to insert it into an on-going campaign (where it would crap all over the flavor and destroy the local economy). Spelljammer was a light-hearted romp through 'Arcane Space', and wasn't really meant to be taken seriously (at least, not after the first boxed set, when ridiculous fluff started being inserted into it). It certainly had a very different flavor then FR, and thats why most FR fans tend to ignore it. Taken on its own, it could be fun. I had a lot of trouble with it because there were way too many holes in it's logic, even taking "High Fantasy" into account. Seriously, who the Hell would bother to travel that way, when you could just take a Gate and get to another world instantly?
#57 alienfreak Jul 28, 2008 18:11:46	Oh, what a nice unusable answer. I asked for a why and maybe there existed an ingame answer in the rules to it, thats what I wanted to know, because I have not read any rules about spelljamming. Its perfectly usable They could also use all their miracles and wishes and just create the Enterprise and be the cool kids There is no real WHY in the rules... they just thought that people travelling in Enterprises is not as High Fantasy as people travelling in space Sailboats Seriously, who the Hell would bother to travel that way, when you could just take a Gate and get to another world instantly? AFAIK there were portals in Spelljammer. But you cant go anywhere where noone is to make that portal. Portals are expensive and how do you get lvl 18+ wizards onto the other planets in the first place to make the portal there? I also dont remember Teleport without Error not being able to teleport you between planets... but i could be wrong here! Also its by far not as cool to use a portal as cruising around with your spaceship
#58 old_sage Jul 28, 2008 20:53:00	There are at east half a dozen 'nods' to Spelljamming in 3e, and officially it did still exist, but they (WotC) chose not to make any direct mention of it so that each group could decide for themselves if it was right for their version of the Realms. As Brian said back in June:- "The entry in the Grand History for the Year of Nightsilver (623 DR) is a direct reference to *the* Spelljammer, not just any old spelljamming vessel. Sage is correct that this entry was a direct spelljamming reference (from the novel, The Radiant Dragon). Just as the dissolving of Leira's illusion covering the moon is a deliberate reference to spelljamming in the 4E realms." I'm sure it will be handled the same way in 4e, but with the major changes to the Cosmology I would say that the Phlogiston should just become the Astral, and lose all the rules regarding air while there. I expect to see nods to Spelljammer in 4E, but no emphasis on those elements in the Realms. As Brian also said:- "Rinonalyrna is also correct. Spelljamming is not going to be emphasized in the 4E Realms at all. I just like to toss in a passing reference once in a while for the fans of spelljamming (of which I am one!) for continuity sake."
#59 lord_karsus Jul 28, 2008 22:32:21	As Brian said back in June:- "The entry in the Grand History for the Year of Nightsilver (623 DR) is a direct reference to *the* Spelljammer, not just any old spelljamming vessel. Sage is correct that this entry was a direct spelljamming reference (from the novel, The Radiant Dragon). Just as the dissolving of Leira's illusion covering the moon is a deliberate reference to spelljamming in the 4E realms." -And, as I said in the same exact conversation, it still isn't a reference to Spelljamming. It's a reference to The Spelljammer, but if WotC, in the future, decides that Spelljammer is actually "Astraljamming", that is a reference to Astraljamming, and not Spelljamming.
#60 lord_karsus Jul 28, 2008 22:33:14	-Anyway, concerning maps: We should have massive continental problems and such, with tidal waves and all of that, so does a port that's not directly next to water really matter? Or, rather, is that the biggest thing that doesn't make much sense when giving a look at it?
#61 markustay63 Jul 28, 2008 22:43:02	And yet, the coastline of Cormyr remained perfectly intact, despite the massive fall in sea-level. :P And that port (Nyanzaru) wasn't on the coast just because it was a sloppy job - the article says its a port, so it HAS TO BE on the coast... Unless there is a new river there, which I do not see, and isn't mentioned (like SO much else).
#62 lord_karsus Jul 28, 2008 22:53:06	Unless there is a new river there, which I do not see, and isn't mentioned (like SO much else). -Maybe it's a flying river? Rivermotes?
#63 markustay63 Jul 28, 2008 23:52:02	Now you're just grasping at straws. :D Edit: A poster (Patrakis) over at CK just did this, and I figure I'd post it here because this is a thread about FR maps, and this is just SO cool - I think I just handed my cartography Crown to him.
#64 lord_karsus Jul 29, 2008 0:23:48	Now you're just grasping at straws. :D -Yes. Said response wasn't intended to be serious. But, in theory, it would work. ;)
#65 leiril Jul 29, 2008 3:41:15	-Anyway, concerning maps: We should have massive continental problems and such, with tidal waves and all of that, so does a port that's not directly next to water really matter? Or, rather, is that the biggest thing that doesn't make much sense when giving a look at it? Say this to that one: :D
#66 old_sage Jul 29, 2008 8:59:04	-And, as I said in the same exact conversation, it still isn't a reference to Spelljamming. It's a reference to The Spelljammer, but if WotC, in the future, decides that Spelljammer is actually "Astraljamming", that is a reference to Astraljamming, and not Spelljamming. Only *if* the concept of spelljamming eventually finds itself under the dreaded "retcon" blade. For the time being, it's a reference to spelljamming now, in the Realms, as Brian has said. That was his intent.
#67 alienfreak Jul 29, 2008 9:26:02	Say this to that one: If im not mistaken that picture is taking at a lake... and humans actually used the water elsewhere ;)
#68 lord_karsus Jul 29, 2008 13:33:02	Say this to that one: :D -Nice looking camel. For the time being, it's a reference to spelljamming now, in the Realms, as Brian has said. That was his intent. -Indeed, now. Now is not later. We'll see.
#69 old_sage Jul 29, 2008 20:04:33	Fair enough.
#70 lord_karsus Jul 29, 2008 21:26:37	-Now back to Osse with you. Or do I need to get my buddies from Myth Adofaer?
#71 old_sage Jul 29, 2008 21:53:49	It's always going to come back to that... isn't it? :D
#72 lord_karsus Jul 29, 2008 21:55:34	-I'm afraid so...:embarrass
#73 markustay63 Jul 30, 2008 13:59:49	So... what does Old Sage enjoy that sends him into the Dreamtime? Is he hittin' Elminster's pipe again? :D
#74 Grazel Jul 30, 2008 18:09:43	At least on some of those the port seems to be on a coastline (or riverbank). Also there ARE inland port cities in the US. They usually have an airport in them at least. Also just because the dot is a bit inland doesn't mean the port city is limited to the space covered by that dot. Some maps of Washington have a dot for Seattle that's not directly on the waterline despite the fact that Seattle is along two waterlines (Elliott Bay on the west and Lake Washington on the east). The dot reperesents the general location of the governemental center of the town not it's physical borders.
#75 old_sage Jul 30, 2008 20:51:03	So... what does Old Sage enjoy that sends him into the Dreamtime? Is he hittin' Elminster's pipe again? :D I cannot confirm or deny that Elminster has ever visited me in Osstralia. :P
#76 markustay63 Jul 30, 2008 22:50:38
#77 lord_karsus Jul 31, 2008 22:11:44	At least on some of those the port seems to be on a coastline (or riverbank). Also there ARE inland port cities in the US. They usually have an airport in them at least. Also just because the dot is a bit inland doesn't mean the port city is limited to the space covered by that dot. -In such settings, it's usually implied that a port has something to do with water. Especially with Spelljammer minimized and swept under the carpet, and other airships not at all common.