Gruumsh - Talos
Selune - Sehanine Moonbow
are there any other?
Bane - the goblin deities.
Over my festering, rotted carcass.
Over my festering, rotted carcass.
Tyranny lolz.
Talos and Gruumsh isn't a merge as such because they are supposed to be the same beings. makes me wonder because they did say that Talos was created in the schism between Selune and Shar. So could be that Gruumsh lost his eye and both he and Corellon are older than Toril :S.
he absorbed the goblin deities further strengthening himself.
It's important to note that both Maglubiyet and Hruggek are still around. My guess is they serve Bane, now.
I am not sure how Talos was the one created during the mythical battle between Shar and Selune. He was not a part of the Netheril pantheon, but Kozah (an identity that Talos took for his own) was.
I have to search for my Netheril sourcebook but are you saying that Kozah was supposed to have been created from the battle?
There is no definitive names given. Only that, as a result of the conflict things like war, death, disease etc. were created. However, the myth of Shar and Selune - the creation myth - is a Netherese myth. Shar and Selune came from the Netherese pantheon. So did Jergal and a number of other deities, one of which was Kozah.
Talos - we do not know where he came from, though it was generally assumed that it -might- have been Kozah adapting a new name, or perhaps he came from another pantheon, destroyed Kozah and took his name... we weren't sure, but there were similarities between the two.
I suppose it is possible, in theory, that Gruumsh killed Kozah and then took his portfolios to create the aspect known as Talos. That is the only way this works otherwise.
I definitely recall reading (perhaps in the 3E FRCS) that Talos emerged from the battles between Selune and Shar.
I have also read this directly somewhere. Meaning the new version is yet another invasive retcon.
I definitely recall reading (perhaps in the 3E FRCS) that Talos emerged from the battles between Selune and Shar.
Then it was a misprint and a mistake. It can't be true because the myth is a Netherese myth and Talos was not a part of the Netherese pantheon. That does not mean, however, that later versions did not incorporate him and other deities into the myth.
Then it was a misprint and a mistake. It can't be true because the myth is a Netherese myth and Talos was not a part of the Netherese pantheon. That does not mean, however, that later versions did not incorporate him and other deities into the myth.
-If Kozah = Talos, then there's no problem with it.
Personally, I think the best way to handle this is to say the following: Kozah was slain by Gruumsh, and then to increase his power he created an aspect known as Talos. He later recalled this aspect during the Spellplague.
Of course, if the myth is true then that can't be the case because we know where Gruumsh came from - another world dominated by orcs.
-Continuity problem!
(Since it is implied that that specific myth is true. Not that I buy it, though.)-But, I don't think the commonly accepted myth is correct. It had plenty of loopholes, and even more now, with the 4e reshuffling a whole bunch of deities. It makes less and less sense as time passes.
I have a tendency to believe that Mystryl, Shar, Selune and Jergal - perhaps some of the others, as well - were deities from other pantheons that they naturally absorbed over time. I've given thought to maybe Shar and Selune started off as aspects of the Queen of Air and Darkness (Queen of the Unseelie Court) and Titania (Queen of the Seelie Court).
Knowledge of them was likely brought with the Fey and Elves to the Realms when they arrived, and aspects broke away, eventually morphing over time into the Shar and Selune we know today.
Mystryl may have simply been the Weave (literally) a semi-conscious or non-sentient Weave that flowed throughout Toril. Over time, individuals may have begun to worship this Weave which gave it sentience into what eventually became Mystryl. The same could be said to be true of Chauntea.
Jergal is likely the first death deity of the Realms, worshiped by some long forgotten race, a form which he still retains.
And the others - Targus and Kozah for example - may have simply been native deities to the humans that the Netherese culture sprang from.
There is a long history throughout Toril of adoption and assimilation of deities, hence how we got the Faerunian Pantheon.
It is just some thoughts I toy with from time to time, but little more than empty shots in the dark.
Mystryl may have simply been the Weave (literally) a semi-conscious or non-sentient Weave that flowed throughout Toril.
-This is the kind of magic-granting entity I want in the setting.
-If Kozah = Talos, then there's no problem with it.
Agreed. I won't argue that it all might just be a myth, though.
-This is the kind of magic-granting entity I want in the setting.
That reminds me of old Greyhawk lore I once read. Vecna worshiped/venerated such an entity, which was called "the Serpent", and was basically arcane magic personified. (I don't know Greyhawk at all, so I am speaking of something I simply read once and could be wrong.)
I always liked the idea.
That reminds me of old Greyhawk lore I once read. Vecna worshiped/venerated such an entity, which was called "the Serpent", and was basically arcane magic personified. (I don't know Greyhawk at all, so I am speaking of something I simply read once and could be wrong.)
I always liked the idea.
-Isn't Vecna a deity? Or, was this before Vecna became a deity, and was still a regular ol' Lich?
-Isn't Vecna a deity? Or, was this before Vecna became a deity, and was still a regular ol' Lich?
Yes, if I have my facts straight, he venereted this creature before his ascension. Pretty cool if you ask me
Yes, if I have my facts straight, he venereted this creature before his ascension. Pretty cool if you ask me
-Gotcha. Thanks.