I've read everything from the return of Fäerie to an alternate FR world. We have suggestions of GH, Eberron, and even Mystara.
So what is your pet theory? (I need a good laugh right now, so zany ones welcome)
My newest one?
Toril merges with the planet Gargamel and the Smurfs run rampant. :D
Hey, it could be worse: the Realms could merge with the Eragon world...
:D
Past meets Present: Ancient magic and empires return, ie Netheril, and affect the present with their shenanigans.
One of the old campaign settings is brought back (Kara-Tur, Al-Qadim, Maztica) and re-integrated with Faerun, though not very well.
Or maybe it's something metaphysical, like east meets west, north meets south, new chaos versus old civilisation.
I wouldn't mind seeing an unknown enemy appear, from the south or west, sort of like the Seachan in the WoT series. A mighty, unstoppable army that has the ability to 'collar' spellcasters. However, with all the damage the silly Spellplague is doing, I don't see an invasion happening anytime soon.
Maybe the other world will have some sort of bizzare radiation, and we will end up with a world of mutants. Either super-heroes or Gammaworld...
"Look! Up in the sky... It's Elminsterman!" :P
The WoW planet is well-thought out and detailed, with lots of interesting dungeons and ruins to explore, and plenty of races and monsters.
The only down side to playing WoW is the lack of 'depth' you get from running in a real RPG with a GM.
But they already have Warcraft D20, so I don't see that happening. I'm fairly certain that Blizzard could pwn Hasbro. ;)
Also--undersea civilazations + the bends = hilarity ensues.
KtM--clearly you're referring to the strange world of the Nacerima.
THAT I would LOVE to see. :D
The WoW planet is well-thought out and detailed, with lots of interesting dungeons and ruins to explore, and plenty of races and monsters.
The only down side to playing WoW is the lack of 'depth' you get from running in a real RPG with a GM.
But they already have Warcraft D20, so I don't see that happening. I'm fairly certain that Blizzard could pwn Hasbro. ;)
Oh dear God! Please, please, play in your WoW and do not touch FR with your computer-smelling fingers.
Ah no, still sticking to GH being the one brought in.
Physical merging or just ... err... crystal spheres merging and thus very close indeed..
Noone has suggested dragonlance, that could be a easier explanation for how come everything went straight to hell... otoh there might be a intrest in maintaining that as a separate novel-world.
Eberron is a bit too new and used to be sacrificed. GH otoh, just those ancient grogs even know what it was...
THAT I would LOVE to see. :D
The WoW planet is well-thought out and detailed, with lots of interesting dungeons and ruins to explore, and plenty of races and monsters.
The only down side to playing WoW is the lack of 'depth' you get from running in a real RPG with a GM.
But they already have Warcraft D20, so I don't see that happening. I'm fairly certain that Blizzard could pwn Hasbro. ;)
After doing digging, I think you'll find it's Vivendi who could pwn Hasbro. Vivendi being the parent company of Blizzard. (29.56 Euros vs 27.65 USD as of Friday - they're not listed on the same exchange, so that comparison might be off.)
A direct comparison of Wizards of the Coast to Blizzard Entertainment would also result in the win being awarded to Blizzard.
But Blizzard vs Hasbro? Nah. No comparison.
Oh dear God! Please, please, play in your WoW and do not touch FR with your computer-smelling fingers.
...
I've been playing in the Realms since the mid-90s, and playing WoW since December 2005. I, too, find it better if they don't mix as they're very different worlds.
However, while I know WoW has a bad reputation, there's no need for that level of ridicule, k?
and even Mystara.
cool. Glantri vs. Thay, whatta war
I merged FR with parts of GH years ago.
I'll probably wind up in a mental institution mumbling something like "they have cameras... cameras... everywhere...."
Maybe we'll see FR merge with the Hyborian World, and Conan can finally meet his clone Wulfgar.
the return of Fäerie
I'd like this one; the idea of the secretive Fey of the Realms existing in a semi-parallel world has always appealed to me.
Perhaps the cataclysmic events that led the elves to abandon Tintageer thousands of years ago (which, as an aside, I like to think were wars stemming from the aftermath of Tharizdun/the Dark God [who, as another aside, I like to think was Ghaunadaur] causing the creation of the Queen of Air and Darkness, and resultant split of the Fey into Seelie and Unseelie Courts) caused the original sundering of the Fey realm and Toril. Their rejoining after the Spellplague could provide the 'new' magical fabric of the world, seeing as the Weave is devastated, allowing magic to resume.
The Plane of Shadow and Faerun.
this is almost certainly the answer. the weave isn't really a world, and the shadow weave isn't either, so they couldn't be brought co-terminus with toril. and the attempt to bring the plane of shadow and the prime into alignment would likely have the disastrous consequences that are alluded to so far.
I know a lot of people have wanted a sourcebook on the Fey for a long time. Perhaps it is time for them to be much more a part of things again.
"Their rejoining after the Spellplague could provide the 'new' magical fabric of the world, seeing as the Weave is devastated, allowing magic to resume."
Heck maybe the weave was like bugshield netting for the Fey. Maybe the establishment of the weave is the event that separated Faerie from Toril.
Or maybe the weave has been around since Mystra. I don't have a lot of the references that people pull that kind of thing from.
Anyone know what the 'Abeir' is all about anyway?
Didn't you get the memo (and read the spoiler?)
Its called Drizztopia now! :D
The spell plague turns all arcane casters into power-mad mages bent on world domination, and all divine casters into unholy aberrations who need to feed of fresh blood in order to survive. The plane of Faerie comes back toward the material plane, bringing with it eladrins doomed to die as they grow older and forget what it is to be young and pure. The death of Kelemvor prevents the spirits of the dead to leave Toril and wraiths haunt every populated corner of the Realms. Lycanthropes comme back by the thousand, slaying all those who would despoil the wilderness between the remaining points of light. And as the mulhorandi panthons slowly merges with the rest of the gods, mummies rise to defend Horus-Re from the depradation of Set's former clerics turned vampires.
And besides, WotC doesn't own White Wolf... yet. ;)
As much as I was hoping for the Fey, and have seen a few signs of it, I'm starting to lean toward Greyhawk more and more. This "no more 'core vs FR' attitude" that the designers were pushing at Gencon seems to point heavily toward that. Also, by killing a slew of old gods, you make room for new ones to join the fray. GHers have been complaining about the lack of support, and FRers have been complaining about the lack of 'new and different' material regarding the rest of the planet, and a decision like merging the two would solve that and a bunch of other 'core vs FR' argumaents.
And then there was that mention of the 'new' Elves worshipping Obad-Hai...
That is a dream of mine, and something I did IMG... sort of.
I had the merger more like DC comics Crisis series, where all of their alternate earths merged and became one, even changing people's memories to match. Areas of my Realms have many GH locations in them, but they've been fit into the existing continent.
I would love to see the whole continent imported, and the fact that the east/west axis is reversed 'race-wise', it would be a near perfact fit. It would be great to see the Rauthym (Auzuopozi ;) ) get a homeland of their own.
I say 'near perfect' because we still wind up with anither 'middle-Eastern' flavor region (but that can be ret-conned) out.
I always knew their was connnection between the Red Wizards and the Scarlet Brotherhood. :P
So we kept a few monsters and some dank, musty caves - they got an entire multiverse back to themselves.
I would say we are pretty even.
But you're right - the bitch-fest would would carry on for decades.
Too bad too... I'd be one of the few who would already be well-aquainted with both.
But still - Ed did list Erelhei-Cinlu as a Faerûnian Drow city once. A mistake?
Perhaps....
I think all the people who play Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms already do. Those Greyhawkers who hate the Realms are a lost cause when it comes to interest in the Realms. Combining the two of them destroys the brand image for both properties. WotC can't have it all, but they can try harder, like changes to the Realms that make sense for starters.
You can't possibly think that the same guys who thought of those aren't already skating the fine line of insanity. :P
Then again, I don't think they actually create them or own the franchise - they just license it from the animé people.
DW, I used to be an FR hater, but then I saw the light (Okay... I couldn't find anyone to play with...). Those who don't like FR haven't tried FR .
I think it would help strengthen both lines (the Grey Realms?) in the long run, and then we could stand together, the old gaurd, in a unified front against the evil that is Eberron.
Everyone could win in that scenario - but it won't happen, I know. People will go into a frenzy, overturn cars, burn their old grey boxes, march on Washington...
You get the idea.
The Chaulssin from War of the Spider Queen, The Netherese from the Archwizards, the followers of Shar and Cyric coming together in the new Supermodules - the last of which is dated to hit in November, obviously intended to help ring in the new Edition.
It seems that the Archwizards' presence obviously had an effect on The Weave, since even Weave Magic seemed to be tainted by Shadow where they were involved.
I personally think that the Weave and the Shadow Weave are going to collide in a way that both become unleashed upon Faerun in some nasty way. While active spellcasters become consumed by the effect of the collision, others find a way to tap into this new untamed power source in some new way much more open to the general populace than it was under Mystra's domain. Rampant Wild Magic everywhere. A Spellplague of sorts, perhaps. ;)
You're acting like they are making rational, well thought-out decisions here. Have you ever taken a look at some of the creatures on the Pokémon cards?
You can't possibly think that the same guys who thought of those aren't already skating the fine line of insanity. :P
Then again, I don't think they actually create them or own the franchise - they just license it from the animé people.
DW, I used to be an FR hater, but then I saw the light (Okay... I couldn't find anyone to play with...). Those who don't like FR haven't tried FR .
I think it would help strengthen both lines (the Grey Realms?) in the long run, and then we could stand together, the old gaurd, in a unified front against the evil that is Eberron.
Everyone could win in that scenario - but it won't happen, I know. People will go into a frenzy, overturn cars, burn their old grey boxes, march on Washington...
You get the idea.
If memory serves and it better since I created the entry for my store's database on Pokemon cards, WotC does not directly produce or supply the TCG that shall not be named. They're provided by Pokemon USA and listed under a different code system by the supplier my store works through. If WotC has ties to them, then they're not making a point of revealing them. Heck, not certain they are connected to Hasbro.
Past that, I'm hoping for something completely out of the blue. Little desire to mix in Greyhawk, the Fey or plane of Shadow might be interesting. Eh well, other events have potentially irritated me enough that in my case the question becomes moot.
Zhentish soldiers, Maerimydran drow, and Sharran cultists have forged a dark alliance to subjugate the peaceful land of Shadowdale. Elmister's tower lies in ruins, Lord Amcathra governs at the sufference of the dale's conquerors, and the very Weave of magic in this embattled land seems to fray with each passing day.
Also, Anauroch: The Sundering of the World seems to be being renamed Anauroch: The Empire of Shade , and an entry at Amazon refers to Shadowdale: The Scouring of the Land as Shadowdale: The Weave Unwinding. There is no real good description of Anauroch anywhere yet.
-Elminster transforms into a Scooter-
Isn't it clear what Hasbro's doing? They're going to merge us with Transformers.
-Elminster transforms into a Scooter-
:D Ki-cko-cko-ko-cki.
(tries to make the rodent an animal compagnon... seems to give the rodent a chestnut...:fetch
It's not enough, they want it all. They want the eradication of all settings not of Oerth for Greyhawk is perfect. Hallowed are the Oeridians. It's part of their plan to eventually raise Gary Gygax to godhood. Then he will truly become like his fictional alter ego, Zagyg, or at least as powerful as Mordekainen. Then the world will rue the day they usurped D&D from its rightful overlord. :P
I think all the people who play Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms already do. Those Greyhawkers who hate the Realms are a lost cause when it comes to interest in the Realms. Combining the two of them destroys the brand image for both properties. WotC can't have it all, but they can try harder, like changes to the Realms that make sense for starters.
Elminster vs. Mordenkainen Heck yeah!
Without his precious Mystra Elminster would be toast! Silly chosen template :P
Does anyone else think this "Points of Lght" thing sounds a whole lot like Ravenloft? So maybe it will Ravenloft merging with Forgotten Realms?
You're acting like they are making rational, well thought-out decisions here. Have you ever taken a look at some of the creatures on the Pokémon cards?
You can't possibly think that the same guys who thought of those aren't already skating the fine line of insanity. :P
Then again, I don't think they actually create them or own the franchise - they just license it from the animé people.
So you're saying some cult of a Cthulhoid entity has rooted itself within WotC to use game publications as a way to disseminate their madness. Does this mean we should buy Lords of Madness and start taking levels in the anti-aberration PrCs found in that book?
DW, I used to be an FR hater, but then I saw the light (Okay... I couldn't find anyone to play with...). Those who don't like FR haven't tried FR .
I think it would help strengthen both lines (the Grey Realms?) in the long run, and then we could stand together, the old gaurd, in a unified front against the evil that is Eberron.
I think if people run Realms games the way they run Greyhawk games, there wouldn't be a problem. The Circle of Eight doesn't come knocking at everyone's door either. While the Chosen seem like they might, they don't and shouldn't.
Besides, from what I keep hearing of Mystara, I think that world deserves an update over Greyhawk. Mystara ... Mystra ... maybe that's where she went after Cyric shived her.
EL-MIN-STER, more than meets the EYE!
@Suin: Gerbils aren't dire animals! Make an Animal Empathy check, DC 4000. What's that? You can't roll 4000 on a 20-sided-die? Too bad. I guess you fail.
:P
Though I feel immense ego rising up for someone wanting me their animal companion. :D
I keep hearing of Mystara, I think that world deserves an update over Greyhawk.
Agreed. Although I do like the portion of Greyhawk that gave everyone a region based on where they lived; it'd be nice to see something like that again. But perhaps it's not meant to be.
Gerbils aren't dire animals! Make an Animal Empathy check, DC 4000. What's that? You can't roll 4000 on a 20-sided-die? Too bad. I guess you fail.
*Casts Twinned Heightened Dominate Animal*
Fetch!
* throws nut into next thread *
Need no empathy, oh no!
:D
I personally think this is a figurative "merging" rather than literal.
(Or at least that's what I'm telling myself, and that's what I'm hoping. I could be wrong...)
Or...
Abeir could be another word for Alpha. Maybe there's a Beta Realms floating around? :P (They're merging servers due to a low population of players... :D)
Hey, if I'm wrong, at least I'll be pleasantly surprised!
*Casts Twinned Heightened Dominate Animal*
Fetch!
* throws nut into next thread *
Need no empathy, oh no!
:D
*Gerbil makes PC Will Save*
*Rolls 20, adds ability modifier 3980*
You lose.
:P
I've already figured in a lot of that in MY Halrua, including calling nonmagic types muggles.
I've noticed the Mystara/Mystra connection before, but I think that is nothing more then a respectful nod to another great setting by Ed Greenwood - he did contribute to it qute a bit before TSR bought FR.
Ya know... Mystara was once part of another world as well... before the whole 'Blackmoor' incident...
All that GREAT fluff going to waste....... ;)
It is most certainly The Plane of Shadow and the Realms... I think any other speculation is really un-necessary.
I'm sorry... I'll stop thinking now....
BTW - who 'Awakened' the gerbil? :P
After reading the new D&D Insider article on wizards, I'm gonna go with Forgotten Realms collides with the world of Harry Potter. I wonder what the entry requirments for Hogworts are?
You have to be a teenager with raging hormones who's only goal and purpose in life is to lead a terrible, tragic series of events without EVER getting laid until you're 30-something, and that's with your best friend's sister.
Oh, and you have to have the maturity to hold a stick and not make a bad joke. So we're all out of the running right there.
BTW - who 'Awakened' the gerbil? :P
After a period of being suspended by a series of torture devices, the Gerbil's parts were getting itchy. And when it itches, NOTHING stop the Gerbil from scratching. :P
Agreed. Although I do like the portion of Greyhawk that gave everyone a region based on where they lived; it'd be nice to see something like that again. But perhaps it's not meant to be.
Living Realms is coming to the RPGA next year to replace Living Greyhawk. Greyhawk fans like myself are sad to see it go, but Living Realms will be very popular probably. Have a look on the RPGA forums. Chris Tulach is taking suggestions.
Maybe we will get merged with the Scooby Doo Universe!
Then none of the monsters will be real... just cheesy humans in a mask.
"Creeper..... CREEPER..."
could Forgotten Realms Online be far behind? :D
I can't wait to play FRO!
Evermeet exists in the past, the present, & the future. Created by magic(ELVEN HIGH MAGIC). The REALMS as we know it is changing weather we like it or not. What poetic justice. They retake MYTH DRANNOR, CAUSE EVERMEET GETS SMASHED. That would be bold. That would be AWESOME!
could Forgotten Realms Online be far behind? :D
[/i]
Play NWN like the rest of us. You'll feel better about yourself.
(Psst. EB Games has NWN Diamond for like, 20 bucks. Everyone should buy it so I'm not a loner online and so I have a team to help me map out Faerun in the game. Psst. :shifty
Seriously, I never bothered to read the 'Shade' series, and I don't like the way they are forcing this down our throats. They have contaminated Entreri along with everything else.
They should of just called it the Shadowplague... since all it does it make us ill.
It could have been....Shadaids. Or...Shadosick. Or Shadowpuke. Or some other illness. Shadowlicorice, I don't care. But PLAGUE!? Where's the style!? :P
Just kidding.
Uh-DOH!
My point was that the Spellplague involves Shar killing Mystra and creating the Spelplague, so they shouldjust call it what it is - Shadowherpes. :P
There... you happy now, ya lil' rodent? ;)
As in... SPELLPLAGUE!
Uh-DOH!
My point was that the Spellplague involves Shar killing Mystra and creating the Spelplague, so they shouldjust call it what it is - Shadowherpes. :P
There... you happy now, ya lil' rodent? ;)
QFT This post for the win.:D :P
:lightbulb 
orc orc orc orc orc porc porc porc porc orc orc orc Cause you know them little cuties are to stupid for the shadowplague to harm!
Grumsh is a genius.;)As in... SPELLPLAGUE!
Uh-DOH!
My point was that the Spellplague involves Shar killing Mystra and creating the Spelplague, so they shouldjust call it what it is - Shadowherpes. :P
There... you happy now, ya lil' rodent? ;)
Shar gave Mystra SHADOWHERPES!?
In this light, Cyric will now be putting flowers in everybody's hair, and next thing you know, everyone's dancing around a tree chanting.
Perhaps the Mulhorandi gods open a portal to their own world to survive whatever Drizzt is mentioning in the Orc King excerpt?
question about this term? is it referred to in some book or whatnot?
thnx in advance anyway
Also, the term was first introduced at Gencon, and Itis used in the recently released GhotR.
Basically, it is an armageddon-level catastrophe (RSE) that changes the Realms as we know it forever. What little we know from GHotR -
Show
So far, all we know for sure is that it begins in 1385 DR, Mystra is killed, Mages go insane, and Magic takes a holiday.
THIS should answer some of your questions.
Also, the term was first introduced at Gencon, and Itis used in the recently released GhotR.
Basically, it is an armageddon-level catastrophe (RSE) that changes the Realms as we know it forever. What little we know from GHotR -ShowSo far, all we know for sure is that it begins in 1385 DR, Mystra is killed, Mages go insane, and Magic takes a holiday.
Paizo's Mega-adventure format was SO popular, that WotC adopted it for the Realms.
Unfortunetly, they SUCKED at it.
Though seriously they are merging it with the new background of 4th edition. The PoL idea. Which they said they weren't going to do....
I think they are merging it with the old cartoon world of Thundar the Barbarian.
OMG!!!
My favorite cartoon series EVA!
Will we get that cool 'broken moon'?
I want to be a Mok!!! :D
OMG!!!
My favorite cartoon series EVA!
Will we get that cool 'broken moon'?
I want to be a Mok!!! :D
I was gonna say the same thing :D I got dibs on the name Ukla though :P I also get the aircraft carrier.
OMG!!!
My favorite cartoon series EVA!
Will we get that cool 'broken moon'?
I want to be a Mok!!! :D
I alway felt that could be a awesome RPG, oh wait we had gamma world... Well I would like to see it get it's own RPG anyway. And it was my idea I get Mok.
I never said Wotc did not suck, bigtime!!!
They are better than TSR was, and a certain sueing-happy company that we can"t name...
That's Right. Because Richard Baker just can't give his own failures a rest.
They are better than TSR was, and a certain sueing-happy company that we can"t name...
I see you've been into the Shrooms again.
Birthright. The ONLY D&D product I ever RETURNED. I bought Dragon Mountain instead. I never found out until years later just who wrote it.
I see you've been into the Shrooms again.
First, TSR's days tend to be seen in rosey goggles, and second, you know, I am sure, this non-D&D game company who it is forbidden to discuss here.
Or at least if you know the rpg world in globality.
First, TSR's days tend to be seen in rosey goggles, and second, you know, I am sure, this non-D&D game company who it is forbidden to discuss here.
Sure at the end TSR was bad...because she who-will-not-be-named had nothing but contempt for D&D players, But before it wasn't that bad. I definitly like the creative( or R&D) team back then alot better.
First, TSR's days tend to be seen in rosey goggles,
Go ahead, keep saying stupid things.
I didn't even get into FR almost until when 3E came out. I only knew TSR for about a year. Rosy glasses, I think not.
Go ahead, keep saying stupid things.
I didn't even get into FR almost until when 3E came out. I only knew TSR for about a year. Rosy glasses, I think not.
I played from about 1982 to 1990 ish. Then stopped until after 3e had long come out. So my glasses may be a touch rosy.
No need for arguiing peeps, you're both correct.
TSR was a company of gamers for and about gamers. That clouds our vision of them quite a bit- they were like us. They had wild and crazy ideas, some of which worked well, others of which stunk to high hell. But they kept chuggin' along pouring out tons of material that was very original, however poorly conceived some of it was.
They were NOT a very well run business. They took major risks, attempted too much growth after their initial 2e success with FR, and paid for it in the end. A lot of good came out of those years, but so did a lot of bad (Birthright, Council of Worms). They were gamers, not business men.
WotC on the other hand, is a well-run business. They make money and are very successful. This new FR is probably the biggest risk they have taken to date, but I'm sure it was well-thought out and the out-comes wieghed. If the setting tanks, most people will run to another WotC setting, or some homebrew. Either way, they still sell rules books to everyone, and they can still continue their much more lucrative FR novels line in the new extended timeline. Either way they win. Its a an excellent business model, and one I applaud as an ex-business owner.
Unfortunely, that leaves us with the sour taste in our mouths of the old Mafia cliche' - "It's just business, nothing personal."
And thats ALL it is, so take it with a grain of salt.
Back on Topic: If they do merge FR with the ScoobyDoo universe, will we all have to wear stupid ascots? And if so, will Gothic Dan then become an avid supporter? :P
@Ubbergeek - What company are YOU talking about? If it's who I think it is, I've mentioned them several times in the past. They are a miniatures company first, and have only recently come out with a new set of RPG rules for their (excellent) setting. If they weren't so competitive, they should have made it D20 to insure it's success, but alas the rules are near-useless to most of us. Anyhow, PM me with who you are talking about, but if it is who I think, then I would have to disagree because they have had lousy quarterly earnings the last two years running, and they are a mass-combat miniatures company first and formost.
And YEAH, I actually check game companies quarterly earnings... ;)
I just thought of another theory. The 248th layer of the abyss becomes part of the area of Thesk & The Great Dale? Eltab is bound to Faerun, do to the Adamatium Binding. Thats why that area has been called The DemonLands. Champions of Ruin has The Hidden Lord in it. Would he instead be sent back to the abyss, when magic goes bonkers? Interesting possabilites. Grand History says that Faerun becomes mutable & shapeable.Haha, I was 5 in 1990.
suddenly, I have a hankering for prune juice
@Ubbergeek - What company are YOU talking about? If it's who I think it is, I've mentioned them several times in the past. They are a miniatures company first, and have only recently come out with a new set of RPG rules for their (excellent) setting. If they weren't so competitive, they should have made it D20 to insure it's success, but alas the rules are near-useless to most of us. Anyhow, PM me with who you are talking about, but if it is who I think, then I would have to disagree because they have had lousy quarterly earnings the last two years running, and they are a mass-combat miniatures company first and formost.
And YEAH, I actually check game companies quarterly earnings... ;)
I still think WOTC did more for the game than TSR, at the very least by the end days TSR and economic side of it.
Palladium Books. *Look around in paranoia for incoming mods.*
(I exagerate, but Palladium threads are verbrotten.)
You know D20 was designed as 'open source' just to put a nail in THAT coffin, right?
Lets see if 4e goes 'open content'... it will mean all the difference to me as to weather I will embrace it or not.
I thought you were taking about GW and the Warhammer stuff - great setting, merely 'okay' rules.
Ahhhh... you were talking about that GURPS cr@p, eh?
You know D20 was designed as 'open source' just to put a nail in THAT coffin, right?
Lets see if 4e goes 'open content'... it will mean all the difference to me as to weather I will embrace it or not.
I thought you were taking about GW and the Warhammer stuff - great setting, merely 'okay' rules.
Not them, but the makers of a certain rpg called Rift, with a rather.... impressive reputation. As the CEO and game maker.
It's amusing how WOTC is called evil, when Palladium Books exist. Still.
:angelhide
Why would you want THAT anyway?
Wouldn't you rather see them fix them, then just abandon them?
Although Maztica may get moved around if they do bring in another continent....
Despite what happens when worlds are merging, can we hope that Maztica and Kara-Tur drop of the edge? Get crushed? Just vanish? Please?
:angelhide
I actually like all those places except Maztica, and I dislike Maztica only because it's recent history is way too real world-ish for my tastes.
suddenly, I have a hankering for prune juice
Lol, thats a year after I graduated high school and began my plunge into the wonderful and exciting world or retail sales
Better they stay.
And don't tel me that Ed had better plans so much, when you realise his Mullhorand was a COPY also - of Conan's 'egypt.'. Don't to EVEEEEL priestresses of Set.
Or the very Ultima-ish 'islands of dungeons' of his Anchorome.
PLease... *groans*
I just couldnt resist!:PIt's all about taking things another step or two away from Earth analogies. It's not that one is better than the other, it's just how the Realms were originally set up. Stepping back starts to break setting consistency and it's obvious which parts of the setting do better.
As for Anchorome, what little we do know isn't exactly specific. Seemed like Ed started playing in the Realms very soon after D&D came out (Anchorome seemed like it was found in a very early version of the Realms) and the first Ultima game came out in 1980 (several years later). The Ultima-ish set up is probably parallel development. Not hard to think up of successive islands with adventure sites on them. I did it in my own game in a limited form before ever hearing of the Realms (back in junior high when all the money my friends and I could muster only managed to get us the core books and a few old dice).
Don't even get me started on Maztica again or the blander areas of Kara-Tur for that matter.
Since Kara-Tur, Maztica, and Zakhara are all mentioned in the GHotR, I doubt they are going to 'just dissapear'.
the 'merging' will happen after 1385, right?
Why would you want THAt anyway?
Wouldn't you rather see them fix them, then just abandon them?
Although Maztica may get moved around if they do bring in another continent....
I think Maztica and Kara-Tur are beyond fixing. They are so close to the real-world clicheés of the Far East and ancient latin america that 'fixing' would mean completely redoing them. In that case, you can dump them just as well.
With Mulhorand, I have to agree with Dark Wizard, and I haven't spent enough time with reading about Zakhara to create an opinion about it.
I think Maztica and Kara-Tur are beyond fixing.
I love Kara-Tur myself and would love to see it back in the fold. Maztica can go
Mulhorand - This is a GOLDEN opportunity for WotC to bring this facinating but oft ignored empire closer in-line with Ed's original vision. They steered away from it because they did not want it to appear as a carbo-Copy of Stygia, but now that it has grown and has become part of Realms history, bringing it closer to the dark and mysterious land ruled by cabals of wizards and evil priests would be a no-brainer. Perhaps with the hints about Mulhorand, and the canon fact that Set has been making some in-roads with Sebek and other non-Pharaonic gods, we will see a sudden rise of his church in the south.
Zakhara was done correctly. It is NOT the Middle-East, it is the fantasy version of ancient Araby as told in the tales of Aladdin and A Thousand and One Nights. You get that 'real' feel, without it being a complete rip-off. By concentrating on the fantasy aspects of such a setting, we have something familiar without a direct analogy.
Kara-Tur, and to some extent The Hordelands, were RW analogs to such a degree that writers actually accidentally used the RW names occassionally in sources. The fantasy aspect was there, in both settings, but played down rather then emphazied, which was a BIG mistake, IMHO. The Hordelands not so much so, but its hard not to think of the Tuigan as wanna-be mongols. Some effort was made with THAT one, which came out later, to better retro-fit it into Realms history, and recent Dragon magazine articles have furthered that.
Maztica - What can I say? To bad you can't be arrested for plagerism from RW history - the designers would have gotten a life sentence. The RW analogies in THAT setting were so horrid that they made the Kara-Tur team look creative. However, it can be fixed. In fact, with the death of Helm the designers now have another Golden opportunity to right past wrongs. Have the natives revolt against the Amnites, and reform their own civilizations again - but different this time out, with some influences from Faerûn (like metallurgy).
Katashaka - Something new and different. If the guys in charge at WotC have any brains at all, they would buy NYAMBE from its designers and paste it wholesale directly over Katashaka. The setting is brilliant and original, and captures that 'African' flavor without being a copy.
Real World Analogies are not so bad unto themselves, but copying Earth history into a fantasy setting degrades said setting. You lose that sense of wonder when you feel as if your re-reading your 10th grade history book. I like analogies because they give us a foundation to build on with our imaginations. However, the designers need to take these interesting cultures and take them to the next level in 4e, so fans can finally enjoy them to their full potential.
Anchorome can be reconciled as well. There is an island chain off the coast of that western continent, and THAT could have been Ed's Anchorome. They would be part of that continent, and they could even be named the 'Anchorome Islands'. No problem there putting Ed's vision together with Wotc's - especially since this is one of the few cases where having LESS lore turns out to be a good thing.
I've decided to steer away from negative comments from here on out until I see something concrete. I see so much potential for them to fix the things that we all agree could use some work. Unfortunely, these changes will require a new edition, so we will have to take the good with the bad and see what they can turn it into. But with Ed's influence, I can see things getting 'back on track'.
:evillaugh 
I just dont see the Realms with out Kara-Tur or Zakhara, without them its seems incomplete.
Thats not a bad thing, I've liked Kara-Tur since the 1e and the first OA, and I liked it tacked on to the Realms, along with Zakhara, it made for an expanisive world. Maztica, I wasn't to cool with for the reasons sighted by Markus.
I just dont see the Realms with out Kara-Tur or Zakhara, without them its seems incomplete.
Maybe thats why the pantheon is getting pruned? To add the GODS of Kara-Tur?
And in this case Ubbergeek, you're the grognard for hanging on to an archaic setting that sidelines the indigenous cultures, placing most of the focus on Western explorers. Many are asking for an appropriate change, you're stubbornly holding on to a highly flawed, unsupported product.
By the way, I don't think of the current Mulhorand as being all that good. It's an imperialistic nation and it also has institutionalized slavery, neither which are "good" in my book.
The world's a saner place with Ubber on ignore. ;)
No doubt...
No insult intended there AT ALL, BTW. Ignorant simply means 'un-informed' in my statement, and has NO BEARING on a person's actual intelligence.
Obviously, I have climbed back up on my fence... For now. ;)
One I haven't heard yet is the other actual planet in their solar system (the one filled with mind flayers and I'd bet aboleths). Since there is something about the rise of the aboleths, it could be a possibility, though I doubt it.
I'm betting its the plane of shadow.
Of course, that'd be pretty predictable and anticlimatic at this point, with all the hype surrounding Shar, the Shadow Weave, the Plane of Shadow, and anything having to do with them.
That is all.
While active spellcasters become consumed by the effect of the collision, others find a way to tap into this new untamed power source in some new way much more open to the general populace than it was under Mystra's domain. Rampant Wild Magic everywhere. A Spellplague of sorts, perhaps. ;)
Wild and Destructive Magic..... hmmm, isn't that someone else's portfolio? Maybe Talos' under the alias of Malyk? The destruction of the weave.... Talos' eye is a black void filled with stars.... I'm thinking Talos is getting a little taste of Shar. Kinky
Now, this one has some good merit as well. With the planes going all squirrelly, it would be interesting if the "hidden layer" of the abyss were to merge with that section of the realms more fully. I don't see it happening, as we already have all these pockets of demons in the realms. However, it is a viable option.
One I haven't heard yet is the other actual planet in their solar system (the one filled with mind flayers and I'd bet aboleths). Since there is something about the rise of the aboleths, it could be a possibility, though I doubt it.
Oh, and just to clarify my thoughts here... if this were the case, it wouldn't be so much of a physical merging of the two worlds so much as a mass exodus from that planet via portals or spelljammers (psijammers?). Perhaps the mind flayers and aboleths of said world went to war and the aboleths were losing so they fled (or maybe they saw an opportunity here and decided to take advantage).
If it's the plane of Shadow, I can honestly say that I will bail on 4e. No negativity or anything, but I'm SICK of hearing about shadowcrap.
That is all.
"Shadowcrap"--that's a great new buzzword.;)
"Shadowcrap"--that's a great new buzzword.;)
I've used it a few times before - guess you hadn't seen it yet. :D
Everything is good in moderation, but it just seems they are ramming this down our throats weather we want it or not.
The new Shadowfell sounds interesting though, mostly because it is OUTSIDE of the Realms proper.
I prefer to hear all sides myself, even if I disagree with them. Sometimes even an ignorant person can make a valid point.
Pretty much. The only reason for one to hate something about the Realms is because it doesn't fit ones ideal of the Realms.
The new Shadowfell sounds interesting though, mostly because it is OUTSIDE of the Realms proper.
I'm getting the impression that the old planes are just being reformed and renamed--I checked out the article and didn't see the word "plane" mentioned, but the descriptions of these otherworldly realms is pretty much the same.
It REALLY is all just about buzzwords these days, isn't it?
No wonder every other child in the U.S. is diagnosed with ADD - society has bred us to desire the 'next great thing', rather then appreciating what we have.
This isn't just a sad statement about D&D, it's the world in general.
Now, her followers can use 'real' shadow magic (maybe with the help of the Karseplug*), not just relying on the Weave's shadow, which doesn't exist anymore. The other Weave users, be it gods or spellcaster, flounder around and all hell breaks loose on Faerûn, while Shar's minions extend their holdings on the continent mostly uncontested.
I'd like it.
*copyright my MarkusTay63 :P
The Shadow Plane is a mockery of the Material Plane, a twisted and dark place where all things seems to go wrong. But there is no place where true evil lies nor one where true goodness exist. So, lets assume they are like the ying-yang and procede with the theory; we retake this later.
Abeir-Toril became Toril since Tearfall; and this time was the introduction of dragons in the world, coming from another "place", maybe an alternate universe. It could even means the world broke apart into two different worlds, each in its own universe and dragons were dropped in the world. Again, we'll retake this later.
One more piece of information is explained in Lords of Madness; illithid reached the end of time and were looking for a way to change past so they traveled using spelljammers and ended in archaic eras in many worlds. They intended to change future but in the process they forgot everything, or at least they were "forced" to do so by an inexplicable event.
Now take this as a whole and put it together along with the Spellplague for my crazy theory of the future Realms.
Shar planed the fall of Mystra eons ago but was thwarted by events she could not foresaw; all things changed in the Time of Troubles when Mystra was killed not to being reborn by its own but to be replaced by a mere mortal who assumed the mantle of divinity and the task to watch over the Weave.
She knew the facts that happened in Tearfall, a portal the size of a world opened and Abeir Toril was ripped in two and dragons came; so she planed to tear a hole in the Weave, hoping to destroy it along with the Shadow Weave. She knew that in the end the Plane of Shadow would merge with the Material Plane changing all that was known and plunging world into darkness. And she knew due to the long forgotten illithid records which explained that in the end of times no one was able to stop an evil entity that taked all existence into nothing. That evil entity was no other than Shar herself. Victory was assured from the beginning, and in the Year of the Blue Fire it was proved when Weave and Mystra ceased to exist, not to be renewed ever after.
Well that's my crazy theory...if I deserve to die please do it quickly u.u...I can't stand long punishment
The Far Realm joins with the the Forgotten ?
:P
As the weave disolves, new continents and races appear, those that had been absorbed when the plane of Mystaraspace collapsed into itself like a Black Hole, and the being known as Mystryl was born into the Realms universe as a result.
I hope wizards don't considere this as a violation but i need to quote what i found. Enjoy :D
As described in Manual of the Planes, the Plane of Shadow
constitutes the primary link between Toril’s planar cosmology and
those of other worlds. The Plane of Shadow connects Toril’s Material
Plane with those of other worlds, including the default world
for the D&D core books—the World of Greyhawk. Naturally, in
a land as full of magical portals as Faerûn is, unusual portals that
connect to other Material Planes via conduits through the Plane of
Shadow almost certainly exist. Some sages point to such connections
as the source of spells named after the great wizards of Greyhawk,
such as Otto’s irresistible dance, Otiluke’s freezing sphere, Tenser’s
transformation, and the various Bigby’s hand spells.
Coterminous to and coexistent with the Material Plane, Toril’s
Plane of Shadow is more than just a transitive plane. While it
can be used for travel, it is also the home of two Faerûnian
deities, and thus it has some of the characteristics of an Outer
Plane. It also holds conduits similar to those found on the
Astral Plane that link Toril with other Material Planes and
other worlds.
SHADOW LINKS
As a transitive plane, the Plane of Shadow is much like one infi nite
link. Travelers can enter it from the Material Plane by casting
shadow walk, or draw its substance into the Material Plane by
means o f any illusion (shadow) spell. The P lane o f Shadow does
not connect to the Ethereal Plane, but it does lead to alternate
Material Planes.
Have your heroes travel to Earth and discover a copy of the GHotR, which they then bring home and pass on to Mystra's church!
Thats it, game over!
Shar and Cyric fail, and none of the other badness happens either. Brian James will forever more be known as The Man Who Saved the Realms.
Seriously though, I hope you don't think that Earth will merge with FR - I don't want no stinky, smelly Elves living in MY backyard.
Guess I'll have to start loading up on Faerie Repellent. :P
As far as GH merging, I'd say there is a good chance of that -or Faerie, or Mystara.
As long as it's not the Shadoworld - I can pretty much gauruntee that will be the last nail in FR's coffin.
Guess I'll have to start loading up on Faerie Repellent.
But what if I wanted to hang out with you?
Besides, you don't have cute little wings, do you? :P
Besides, you don't have cute little wings, do you? :P
what do you think?
If I had wings, they'd be big, gorgeous raptor wings - white or gold. Avariel Sun Elf. ;)
Go on admit it Gothic Dan, Your a Demonfey. Right?;)
No! Totally Aasimar.
Well thats really disapointing!;) Ftw Forgotten Realms meets Birthright! Yuk!
:surrender 
:rolleye2: :raincloud 
:headexplo 
No! Totally Assimar.
Corrected. :P
So I drove my bro-in-law to the airport, and then a couple days later picked him and his boyfriend up.
The guy told my wife she was crazy for splitting with me - I still got it. :D
You know, that gives me a wonderful idea about how to prevent the Spellplague.
Have your heroes travel to Earth and discover a copy of the GHotR, which they then bring home and pass on to Mystra's church!
QUOTE]
Hold on as of last issue Elminster was routinely visiting Earth along with Mordenainen and Dal whatever his name was.
Given his proclivities i think its a safe bet he got a copy... now what would he do with it?
Oh yes pass it to Storm and let her read it!
She'd probably laugh herself silly before going off to pass it onto her sisters, most likely Dove but I'm sure the Symbul would get it relatively quickly, quickly enough that she'll arrange a holiday just so she could watch Thay burn!
At some point Laeral will get a copy and find out about her husband and THATS when Cyric needs to head for cover, even he isn't THAT daft to stick around when the woman who married Khelben Arunson decides to look for someone to blame... which probably explains the real reason Khelbun's dead as its the only way he can escape her, Kelemvor might be interested in exchanging Khelburn for that copy and THATS when it hits the fan for Shar & Co.
The question is does he laugh himself silly at the notion Tymora is actually interested in Tyr or that Helm complains?
I can just see him arranging the fight to take place in the dweomerheart and then make sure they know who's really responsible just as Cyric and Shar sneak up on Mystra only for the pair to discover there's now 4 gods present and 2 of them want to have a word with Cyric... perhaps that explain Ilmater leaving the triad since he felt what Cyric got and decided enough was enough... suffering that is...
And then Riddick lands with a whole armada of Necromunger.....
Riddick FTW! You keep what you kill!;) :P
If i read correctly in GHotR Evermeet was created by pulling a part of Arvandor into the Realms and fixing it by a massiv Weave-concentration.
That event was called 'The Sundering'.
If Evermeet gets pulled back to Arvandor by the destruction of the Weave, what will occupy it's space? Maybe the continents will be drawn together (again)?
'The Merging' of the 'New World' Maztica and 'The Old World' Faerun?
Maybe this event will not go about as quitely as 'Oh, suddenly i can see the coast of Maztica on days with good weather, good for the merchants' ...maybe tidal waves will devaste the coasts an so on.
It would also explain why the new 'Elven Realms' on the mainland are both 'protected' by those high magic trees...if Evermet is gone you will need to explain how these two highly magical realms weathered the Weaves destruction without going 'ka-boom'
Best wishes
Lirdolin
Lirdolin
Hmmm... that sounds strangely plausible actually... not sure if it qualifies as a crazy theory though. ;) :D
I've been espousing the notion of an "un-Sundering" for quite some time now, even before the entry in the GHotR that helps to verify my suspicions.
According to THAT, the Weave maintains a piece of Arvandor in the Realms, which means if the Weave goes away there is a chance that the entire proto-continent will 'snap-back' to it's original shape, and history will be right again (the Elves changed history with their ritual).
What we will end up with is a very different looking setting, with new races (ones that never got a chance when the world was changed) and new magical traditions, and perhaps some of the older races will have different names (the Eladrin?).
Sounds a lot like 4e FR, huh? ;)
It's just a theory, and GK has said that the entry in the GHotR may or may not be true - it's just one scholar's interpratation of the events.
But it would explain MUCH, and they wouldn't need to move the timeline ahead a century to explain the changes.
Bah.
I wouldn't put it past 'em. Or to have Selune and her Tears fall into the ocean, wiping away the nearest landmasses with a super-tsunami and flames belching from the sky.
But really, if 4e is coming to the Realms then why not have a bit more of Arvandor (a land of Faerie) imbue itself within the elven homelands? Perhaps the merging of worlds can be a strengthening of the essence of various races within their homelands...thus another rationale for 4e's racial class feats? But of course that would be a positive whereas the GHotR refers to this time as pretty gashdurnnnnned bad.
And there is always dark and light together. Unless the creators went EMO and want to see the whole world of FR as negative. In that case I'm out of here.
I do like your idea though. It would be interesting to see them get closer with their home world.
Please may the merging of two worlds be figurtive language and not literal.
I doubt it, because "massive shake-ups" in the setting have become the norm.
You can play Iron Kingdoms, or Cthulhu by Gaslight, or Weird West/Deadlands D20, or 7th Sea/Swashbuckling Adventures D20, or even Warhammer RPG if you are looking for a little tech in your setting.
You can convert 2e's wonderful Gothic Earth setting, or just play in Ravenloft (although it's pretty dark).
You can even do a whole campaign based around Girl Genius.
Or you can just head over to Eberron and ride the Choo-choo.
But FR doesn't need more tech - it has been one of the most important canon points since 1e - technology simply DOES NOT WORK in Realmspace. Gunpowder becomes non-functional, and any sort of technology based on electricity fails.
Its part of the physics of the plane. ;)
With the Weave gone, ALL bets are off.
Perhaps they are finally going to use the artwork that Todd Lockwood did for the 3e FRCG. ;)
But FR doesn't need more tech - it has been one of the most important canon points since 1e - technology simply DOES NOT WORK in Realmspace. Gunpowder becomes non-functional, and any sort of technology based on electricity fails.
Its part of the physics of the plane.
Page 9, Running the Realms, 2eFRCS
The physics of the Realms are slightly out of synchronization with the rest of the planes, so that many technological devices which operate on electronics do not function. Equivalent devices may be developed by player characters. DMs should put some thought into what they will allow into their campaign worlds. DMs may choose to eliminate the use of gunpowder (or its magical equivalent, smoke powder) from the Realms, at their option.
Of course FR doesn't need more tech. Lantan simply needs to be suitably fleshed out to set the standards;)
THIS should answer some of your questions.
My newest theory, BTW, is that Abeir is the part of Toril that had advance up until the time of the Sundering. When the Elves High Magic Ritual reached back in time and changed the way the world formed, it actually created a divergent timeline (Toril). So we have two seprate FR's, and they will come crashing back together again when magic fails, causing a veritable 'Merging of two worlds'.
With that, they can cover any changes they wish to make, and modify canon as they see fit.
Anything could have arisen on that alternate Faerûn; Different magical traditions, new or different gods, Warforged, Changelings, Elves may have been called something else, Gnomes may never have achieved a place of prominence amongst the other races, Demons and Devils may have evolved into different creatures entirely...
You see, using existing canon, one can go back and litterally 'erase' canon.
I don't know if any of you noticed but one of the designers has mentioned that someone in this thread had figured it out and enworld.com believes this is the post that they were referring to. All speculation of course but nice jub anyway Markus.
I don't know if any of you noticed but one of the designers has mentioned that someone in this thread had figured it out and enworld.com believes this is the post that they were referring to. All speculation of course but nice jub anyway Markus.
Thank You. :D
Its the only thing that fits, would give us a canon explanation why so much is different, and would (thankfully) allow them to give us ancient magical traditions... in 1386 DR!
I look at all we are given and break it down. It's how I always figure out movie mysteries as well. Writers and filmakers are both given the same constraint - they only have so much 'time' to give us the hints we need to figure it out. Weather its film or page counts doesn't matter - the devil is in the details.
I've been studying all of the vingettes from the GHotR - I figure at least a few of them are hints of things to come.
Like the roll of shadow years... you know... when Shar first found prophesy and figured out how to divert the timeline back down a path of HER choosing.
Note she refers to the year of the ToT (The Year of Shadows) as the Year of Ascension - and we have been told that the Spellplague had its roots in the ToT. Maybe Shar was behind THAT whole thing, as well? She needed Cyric to ascend and help her kill Mystra...
The old Shadowench has been planning this for quite some time.
Also note the placement of the roll of Shadow years in the book - it's just before the revelations on the final page... and year 1385 is called The Year of Revelations...
I don't know if any of you noticed but one of the designers has mentioned that someone in this thread had figured it out and enworld.com believes this is the post that they were referring to. All speculation of course but nice jub anyway Markus.
Now when have FR designers ever known anything about what they design?;)
Thank You. :D
Its the only thing that fits, would give us a canon explanation why so much is different, and would (thankfully) allow them to give us ancient magical traditions... in 1386 DR!
I look at all we are given and break it down. It's how I always figure out movie mysteries as well. Writers and filmakers are both given the same constraint - they only have so much 'time' to give us the hints we need to figure it out. Weather its film or page counts doesn't matter - the devil is in the details.
I've been studying all of the vingettes from the GHotR - I figure at least a few of them are hints of things to come.
Like the roll of shadow years... you know... when Shar first found prophesy and figured out how to divert the timeline back down a path of HER choosing.
Note she refers to the year of the ToT (The Year of Shadows) as the Year of Ascension - and we have been told that the Spellplague had its roots in the ToT. Maybe Shar was behind THAT whole thing, as well? She needed Cyric to ascend and help her kill Mystra...
The old Shadowench has been planning this for quite some time.
Also note the placement of the roll of Shadow years in the book - it's just before the revelations on the final page... and year 1385 is called The Year of Revelations...
This is bloody awful.
Retconn it. Please...please retconn it...
Richard Baker Must Be Stopped!
Richard Baker Must Be Stopped!
Richard Baker must be adviced, simply.
you can't make omelette without breaking eggs. And often health issues are too serious to be ignored so they need an operation.
Richard Baker must be adviced, simply.
Yeah but operating with a chainsaw is never recommanded. Well maybe once...
Hear that? The chainsaw is already running. Better let Rich use it manually than letting it fall and saw eraticly.
Yeah but operating with a chainsaw is never recommanded. Well maybe once...
Considering the alternative - the Greyhawk death plague, HELL YEAH.
Maybe it's just nostalgia.
And remember, kids. Rearrange the letters of shar to spell Rash. Because that's what this 4th edition FRCG sounds like.
Richard Baker Must Be Stopped!
I gotza rash wanna see it?:D
msatran must be stopped!!!!!!!!!!!;) :P
Considering the alternative - the Greyhawk death plague, HELL YEAH.
Grehawk was put on the criticle list by FR(because it was a better setting)...then the RPGA finished it.
And remember, kids. Rearrange the letters of shar to spell Rash. Because that's what this 4th edition FRCG sounds like.
You also get Hars...Arsh....Hsar...Shra....they don't mean anything, but that's what you get:P
Richard Baker Must Be Stopped!
You're too mature for this.
tends to sum up how I feel about your theory there Markus, on both counts of it. I don't think you're wrong mind you, at least not by much if you are, but the idea of that being the case is almost enough to make me want to shed salt tears...Probably powered on pickle juice.
The only thing I'm still worried about at this point is that they will do both - change the past AND leap ahead a century, which would be far too much change all at once.
I can't really complain about them using the 'butterfly effect', nor should the rest of you, because nothing makes us cry louder then when they make changes WITHOUT an explanantion.
Great Tree, anyone?
Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up - more of 'morbid curiousity' then enthusiasm at this point, though.
It's a great idea, except that this is a huge campaign destroyer. WHat's the point of playing your characters in the world if as soon as you hit 1385, the donkey crack spellplague takes over, turns your wizards into jello, and suddenly your clerics can't heal people because there's no weave.
This is bloody awful.
Retconn it. Please...please retconn it...
Richard Baker Must Be Stopped!
I'm sure they will have ways around this. I sincirely don't think they expect everyone to have to kill off their PCs in order to make the switch to 4th ed.
I understand the mechanics difference will require you to rewrite it but I don't see why you will be forced to play another character all together.
I'm sure they will have ways around this. I sincirely don't think they expect everyone to have to kill off their PCs in order to make the switch to 4th ed.
I understand the mechanics difference will require you to rewrite it but I don't see why you will be forced to play another character all together.
That is actually what they said. Finish your campaign. We won't give you a 4ed conversion guide... blah blah blah
If they jump the timeline ahead a century or more, which they very well might, then you may just have to kill off your character (or put him in stasis).
Captin America FTW!!!
The Red Skull must be stopped!!!:D
I know its getting old, but it so fun!!!:P
After that, it depends on THEM.
I'll buy the FRCG, just to see how much they trashed.
I'll admit that a part of me wants to do that (will curiosity overcome indignant resolve?).
Another part of me quickly says: "There are other ways of finding out what happened that DON'T require purchasing that book."
Besides, some people here are saying "you'll all buy it anyway"--I would love to prove them wrong.
I hate when I go to Borders and the aisles are filled with people sitting on the floor reading books - it's just rude. The (cheap) adults take the books over to the tables in the coffee shop area, but the younger folks sit on the floor and read.
It's especially bad because the anime is kept opposite of the Fantasy in the same isle, so you get a plethora of teenage oriental girls sitting on the floor, who you have to maneuver around to find what you want.
Ya know... now that I think about it... I actually LIKE that part....
Ugh.
I hate when I go to Borders and the aisles are filled with people sitting on the floor reading books - it's just rude. The (cheap) adults take the books over to the tables in the coffee shop area, but the younger folks sit on the floor and read.
It's especially bad because the anime is kept opposite of the Fantasy in the same isle, so you get a plethora of teenage oriental girls sitting on the floor, who you have to maneuver around to find what you want.
Ya know... now that I think about it... I actually LIKE that part....
Question are the "teenage oriental girls" in Catholic school girl outfits?:D I am one sick puppy!
So, to sum everything up so far, we have the following theories -
1) The other world its merely 'poetic license', and may even refer to the Orcs being accepted.
2) An alternate world will merge with FR, which could be something new, or even Greyhawk or Mystara.
3) Fäerie returns somehow, or at least a dimension where the Fey have been kickin' back.
4) An alternate timeline merges back with the current one, and the world gets ret-conned.
I listed them in what I percieve as a reverse order of probability. The first seems least likely, becasue of the hints concerning 'Abeir'. The last seems most likely, because the word 'mutable' in the final GHotR entry indicates sweeping changes to the world as we know it.
So, were there any that do not fit into the above categories? Remember, an alternate plane, or even demi-plane, would constitute #2, so that would cover any sort of 'Shadoworld' scenario.
Question are the "teenage oriental girls" in Catholic school girl outfits? I am one sick puppy!
If they were, I would have to avoid the place entirely... or get in trouble. ;)
Damn You! Stop making me think of it again!
It's especially bad because the anime is kept opposite of the Fantasy in the same isle, so you get a plethora of teenage oriental girls sitting on the floor, who you have to maneuver around to find what you want.
Ya know... now that I think about it... I actually LIKE that part....
Ah, reminds me of my days as a B&N bum, oh wait, I still do that on occasion.
So Markus, is this the secret to your interest in Kara-Tur? :P
The manga I mean ... yeah, the manga...
I'll buy the FRCG, just to see how much they trashed.
After that, it depends on THEM.
ditto
Kelemvor: "I'm seeing lines and dots in everything!" (takes on a pair of glasses) "Much better now!"
Gilgeam: "Every artifact, every treasure once belonged to me. They didn't, actually, but that's lore, and lore's all that matters!"
Forgotten Realms and Thundercats merging, baby!
Give me sight beyond sight. Rawr!
If they jump the timeline ahead a century or more, which they very well might, then you may just have to kill off your character (or put him in stasis).
I was under the impresion that this will all happen 10 years from now not 100.
I know there is a book set 100 years in the future but there is no confirmation that the FRCS will be set 100 years from now.
All of which are being used to explain the final entry in the GHotR, where the world changes and becomes 'mutable'.
One person came up with the idea of Evermeet actually being Tintageer! At first, I thought it was a cool concept, but not much more.
But it got me thinking...
Elven High Magic always appears to have consequences when used. I figure it has to do with some sort of 'Cosmic Balance' or some such - When the Elves alter reality on that grand a scale, something, somewhere has to give a little to make the effect come about. Who knows? Maybe when the Elves cast the spell that washed away Jhaamdath, it set into motion the events that lead up to the fall of Myth Drannor.
Anyhow, when we 'connect the dots', it appears very likely that Evermeet IS indeed part of Fäerie, as per the vingette on pg. 11. We also know that Tintageer was an Island nation, and part of Fäerie. Another theory being bandied about concerning 'Abeir' is that it is a return of the Fey (and their plane) by way of a greater connectivity between Toril and Fäerie via the elaborate system of gates that are prevalent in the setting.
When we stitch all of this together, then it seems likely that Tintageer was NOT rippped apart by the Elves enemies, but rather by their own mis-use of High Magic to alter the reality of Faerûn so that a piece of their homeland would exist there. Its one of those 'time-paradoxes' - their fleeing to Toril caused them to use the magic which inadvertantly caused them to flee to Toril in the first place.
So once the 'Sunder-Switch' is thrown, then perhaps the High Magic will unravel, Tintageer will NOT sink, the Elves will NOT flee to Toril, and the world will be restored to it's original pristine state.
Also, the Elves NOT leaving Fäerie in -25,400 DR will have DRAMATIC effects on Faerûn's history (the 4e changes), and the Moon and Gold Elves themselves may have evolved into something completely different (like Eladerin? ;) ).
Just another twist to some of the current theories, and not entirely my own. The 'Draco-Laser' and the events of -31,000 may both be unrelated to these other events, and to each other.
It would seem a little odd if the Dragons also caused their own 'creation' on Toril, but with the Elves 'twisting time', who knows what else may have been effected?
Plus, with no Crown Wars there will be no Descent, per se, with the likely result that the Ilythiir split into drow and dark elves, with an unending(?) civil war.
Just a thought.
I would say that would be the more logical and simpler conclusion, BUT we also have the information at the end of the GHotR about the "destruction of the old world and the beginning of the new". That, and the use of the word 'mutable' in the sentence before indicates the maps themselves are going to change, and that would take much more then just a hundred years to happen, even with magic. Also, they are ret-conning Elves, Demons, Devils, etc... and the entire cosmology.
In order to change what the Elves ARE, we have to assume some major ret-conning is taking place, and the ONLY IG explanation I can come up with is that the Sundering unravels OR another dimension impinges on Toril, be it Faerie or someplace else called 'Abeir'. Like in the DC comics Crisis series, merging the worlds together will allow major retconning to the world's history, which explains EVERYTHING we have heard about 4e - including the strange spoiler regarding the "disasterous merger of two worlds".
Personally, I would rather see a creative and magical reason for the retcon, rather then a century of strife. Besides pissing everyone off with a huge leap forward, it is also pretty uncreative and just plain 'meh'.
My
--------------
Hmmm.... it occurs to me(possibly said by someone else here before), that the joining of the two worlds could just be greater interaction with all of Toril that was previously hidden. Those civilizations that no one on Faerun really knows about, could be considered another world.
Who knows, maybe on the positive(?) side we'll see the maps redrawn with more 'monster' nations. Perhaps an expanded dwarven nation east of Tethyr and Calimshan as well. Maybe another hidden city or two will come back into this dimension, such as one hidden city that Selune sent elsewhere (and no don't shoot me for not getting that straight, it's too early in the morning for me to re-read the texts...).
Hey...perhaps the Forest of Mir will become a true drow/dark elf homeland of sorts. (Not for the good sort of course.)
All kinds of possibilities that were nipped in the bud a few editions ago by other writers may get their chance to grow.
Aside from the "Let's kill Mystra" hogwattle. I doubt I'll approve of who they choose for the next goddess of magic.
But it WON'T be FR.... ;)
But havent we come to expect uncreative ideas from the WotC Realms overlords?
No, I've come to expect QUALITY from a company and game I have been dedicated to and following for the last thirty years. They don't always hit the mark - in fact, they quite often fall short of it. But there are a few gems in 3e, and overall I was happy with most of what was produced.
Bruce Cordells new book Stardeep answers this question!:D Its a pretty good book so far!:coolcthul
I guess this is yet another novel I'll have to consider "non-canon" for my Realms, then.
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It explains Abeir-Toril, and why the Star Elves left! So far that is.;)
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"You cant imagine. But the Cerulean Sign was forged to oppose creatures that oozed down from mad realms to colonize Abeir-Toril. To a large extent, those long-vanished defenders of the virgin world succeeded. Abominations, both godlike and inconsequential, were pushed back. Abeir was forgotten. Mortal races eventually inherited the earth."
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It wasn't really stated where the Aboleths came in The Orc King prologue.
The Keepers Of The Cerulean Sign appear in Lords Of Madness by Richard Baker et al. There's little solid info there, and nothing related to FR. The picture and sample NPC show an elf.
It wasn't really stated where the Aboleths came in The Orc King prologue.
The Keepers Of The Cerulean Sign appear in Lords Of Madness by Richard Baker et al. There's little solid info there, and nothing related to FR. The picture and sample NPC show an elf.
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One of the characters forsee a successful escape attempt of the aboleths about a century in the future. So I now belive the FRCG will have a 100 year jump in it. 
I hope I am wrong, but it does make sense, thematically. The Spellplague is going to really tear-up the Realms. Reading this book is making me realize whats really going to happen.
I hope I am wrong, but it does make sense, thematically. The Spellplague is going to really tear-up the Realms. Reading this book is making me realize whats really going to happen.
Then again I could be wrong. I will probably start a Star Deep Spoiler thread when I am done reading the book. Its a pretty good book. Its just that wow what it reveals is heavy.
:88E: :coolcthulSo far we have several things happening:
1) The (laughable) murder of Mystra, the loss of the Weave, and the onset of the Spellplague;
2) Shar apparently finding a way to prevent--or twist the effects of--the Sundering;
3) The loss of the "tree view' of the planes due to 1) above, everything swishing into the Astral Sea;
4) The return of abolyths when Abeir merges with Toril once more.
All we need is some magical force killing everyone's firstborn and a plague of locusts, we should be set.
I think we'll find out more when book 2 in the Empyrean Odyssey arrives this month. Makes me wonder if that's the vehicle for bringing about a tiefling/demon kingdom into the Realms,as well as a sneak peak into how Cyric gets put in place to murder Mystra. Maybe. Big maybe.
:88E:Yeah, me too... was a good movie except for that part. Yawn...
Right!!!
Why am I getting the impression that its The Forgotten Realms meets the Far Realms in The 4E Realms?
Next thing you know the will buy up Goodman Games and add The Known Realms to it.
:88E:
But please buy their book. No, really. ;)
I dunno. I had enough when the phaerimms ran amok over the Realms. Am I supposed to like this even better?
Sounds amazingly psuedo-Lovecraftian... so definitely something for me to skip if that's the case. I can't stand Lovecraft... just bores me to tears.
Well I agree with you there...sigh. Well this is pure speculation I just continue having to say what are they thinking?
Then I relize oh wait they are thinking their ideas are suprerior to what has come before...and well we will just steanroller the old plot. But with what is going on I think the new alignment system will be the really old D&D system.
:88E:
:88E:Ps this may just be a knee jerk over reaction on my part.
Personally, if this whole aberration invasion thing is their idea of something new and "Cool", then I'm utterly and completely disgusted and likely never darkening 4e's doorway with my presence. The whole aberration-fascination thing just leaves me cold to begin with... I've yet to figure out the attraction of the entire mania to be honest.
Take a deep breath, cut down on the caffeine, move away from the novel slowly... there, that's better...
Personally, if this whole aberration invasion thing is their idea of something new and "Cool", then I'm utterly and completely disgusted and likely never darkening 4e's doorway with my presence. The whole aberration-fascination thing just leaves me cold to begin with... I've yet to figure out the attraction of the entire mania to be honest.
I've found out why! Richard Baker is a Cthulhu cultist and he wants to bring the aberrations to the world to make it mad. This will tear the barriers (like in Ascension, the final Mage book) and his god can come to devour us all.
That thought had crossed my mind, but I was trying to ignore the little voice that said they were ripping off M:tA as badly as they seem to be...
*A very devout person shouts to everybody around*
-All our fears have come true, let us repent for our sins so we can enter heaven. Don't fall into temptation, the creators are corrupt!
*Religious rabble continues for days*
Sorry people all our theories were wrong.
Actually, long before I came up with the 'Un-Sundering', I said maybe "Abeir" stood for Abeirations - it may have even been my original theory. I still like the 'Un-Sundering' better, though.
Wasn't Eberron overun by Aberrations way back in it's past, who were then locked-up far below the earth? WotC seems to be even ripping themselves off, these days.
Really - from all appearances it sounds like the 'team' sat down and figured out what made each of a dozen other setttings 'cool', and then distilled out that 'cool' part to use in the new FR (Far Realms?). The only problem with that is that instead of winding up with the 'Ultimate Cool' they were looking for, they wind up with a horrible mish-mosh of disparate lore.
Whatever... It sounds like a plot out of Goosebumps to me....
Sounds amazingly psuedo-Lovecraftian... so definitely something for me to skip if that's the case. I can't stand Lovecraft... just bores me to tears.
I respect Bruce Cordell as a person, but I don't think his novels feel very Realmish. He is definitely the type to inject spacey, sci/fi-ish or Lovecraftian stuff into his stories. For example, his last novel Darkvision had a good story, but I didn't think it fit into the Realms very well at all. I just got this new novel (Stardeep), and flipped through it a bit. The style was pretty much what I expected from him.
Delta, thank you for the spoilers.
For the record, I did actually find that page you mentioned. It doesn't tell us much, but I didn't care for what I've seen. At all.I think we'll find out more when book 2 in the Empyrean Odyssey arrives this month.
Interestingly enough, there is a group called the "Empyrean Knights" in Stardeep. I'm only about 11 pages in so far though.
PS: I think book 2 comes out next November.
But it WON'T be FR.... ;)
Is there any info about what 'Empyrean' actually stands for?
As of right now, I have no clue.
The word confused me when it first appeared (on Thomas M. Reid's novels), and flipping through Stardeep has not enlightened me about it either (I just see pages and pages of weird Lovecraftian sci/fi...stuff).
Remember, the Al-Qahera Elves from Darkvision appear to be related to the Star Elves in some fashion, and the Star Elves themselves have always been described as more 'Fey-like' then other Elven types.
Star Elves may very well be the Elven equivalent of the "Missing Link".
Star Elves may very well be the Elven equivalent of the "Missing Link".
That'd be kind of annoying--a form of designer hubris, in fact.
Consider that star elves are Mr. Cordell's creation (IIRC).
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The traitor is a Star Elf, who serves the Abloethic Soverngty(sp). Star Deep is a prison that a part of the Star Elf Realms, yet seperate. The Nilishi are agents of the traitor and the aboleths trying to destory the Star elf Realm. Its very SCI-FI Rino. The prison also has entrances on Toril, in the Yuirwood(Sunglade everyone?)
Hmmmm... 'Imperial'... 'Empyrean'....
By the way, did I mention that I hate the word "LeShay"?
I believe you're refering to the sharn and the phaerimms, Markus. The phaerimm were due to be a big problem until the sharn blocked them off. And then there were the beholder kingdoms...*hmm*...
As for the name 'star elf', we also have sun elves and moon elves so it fits a given naming theme for those elven subraces. As long as we don't have 'comet' elves and 'asteroid' elves...in which case it goes beyond curious to downright corny.
But that might be my own personal prejudices coming through again.
The Nilshai as agents of Aboleths? Ridiculous. I am pretty sure at this point my game is either staying 3.5 or I will never play in the Realms again. Only a miracle of the most amazing sort can save this game.
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The traitor is still imprisoned, his plan to be released came to naught!!! The aboleth soverignty is still imprisoned by the Cerulean Sign, for now. The aboleth city of Xxiphu, hasnt risen in Faerun, yet!!! The Spellplague awaits, us all in 4E!!!
They are coming!!!
They are coming!!!
Hastur was the God, I believe.
So, Xxiphu is the FR team's super creative version of R'lyeh? Hmmmm....
This new edition seems more about what individual people thought were cool from other works they read, and then just pasted it into FR.
If I want Cthulhu, I'll PLAY Cthulhu.
The Nilshai as agents of Aboleths? Ridiculous. I am pretty sure at this point my game is either staying 3.5 or I will never play in the Realms again. Only a miracle of the most amazing sort can save this game.
I think instead of moving forward to 4e, this latest info might drive me all the way back to 1e.
So far I like the rules and the cosmology, but it doesn't sound like I'm going to like these new Realms one bit. It's not that I don't like Cthulhu or any of the other fantasy sources they are apparently ripping-off, but if all they can do is copy & paste, well....
that just doesn't sound very creative to ME.
Besides, why not have used Illithids for this? They are much cooler, and a D&D iconic monster. Aboleths are just SO silly I can't stomach them.
A still have nightmares about being chased by a giant THACO!
Whiners!
*Goes back to Non-Euclidean Geometry stuff.*
When I ran 2e in every instance I 'guest DM'd' someone else's campaign - I never ran my own in 2e!
Why? Because THACO was just too complicated... I co-DM'd every adventure, and while I did the storyline, the other, regular, DM for the group would do all the number-crunching for me. Not that I couldn't do it, it would just take me 2 hours to run a simple 5-minute combat.
I suppose if I cut my gaming teeth on 2e, as the groups I DM'd did, it wouldn't have been so alien to me. I ran several other systems before then, including earlier iterations of D&D, and ALL of them were WAY simpler, at least to me.
On Topic:
Anyway, it appears that the Aberrations will be the Abeir part of the mystery...
I was hoping the "merging of two worlds" would be something better. Oh well...
I hope the Aboleths enjoy their world... and I hope WotC can find enough Aboleth players to buy it.
They really do think we are just mindless Skum... ;)
I'm certainly no expert on Lovecraft, but wasn't Cthulhu just an ancient priest of the Elder Gods, but not a god himself? Sort of like a level 300 cleric in game terms, but certainly not divine.
Hastur was the God, I believe.
So, Xxiphu is the FR team's super creative version of R'lyeh? Hmmmm....
I'm also not a Lovecraft expert (but am quite a fan); that sounds basically correct to me. Although there were multiplie entities which could be considered deities (not just Hastur), I don't think Lovecraft considered any of them explicitly divine (just cosmic horrors). I also don't know how later Mythos writers may have changed things, as I've only read HPL's stuff.
I might read Stardeep, then. Darkvision is currently about halfway along my big pile of books to read, so I guess I'll see how I like that first.
I'm good at Math... REALLY good. Maybe not Quantum Physics good, but definately better then the average Joe.
Quantum mechanics, man!
I suck at math. By me sucking at math, I mean, I'm probably better than you. ;) But still worse than the average physicist.
On topic:
So, is the merge just going to be CoC + FR?! I certainly hope not.
It almost appears that they are going back to the late-2e mindset of shoe-horning everything in, weather it fits or not.
It sounds more like a recipe for disater - Take 1 part FR, add a cup of Cthulhu, a dash of Greyhawk, two tablespoons of Eberron, stir in WoD....
It almost appears that they are going back to the late-2e mindset of shoe-horning everything in, weather it fits or not.
I thought that was the early-2e mindset.
I never want Cthulu... or however you spell that. It only works when you don't see the monster... show the monster and it's just stupid. Maybe I'll come up with some cute cuttlefish-like monster that eats aboleth and illithids, but who's otherwise very friendly and social, just to make myself feel better...
I like cuttlefish, so I would enjoy such a creature.
The only problem is if he's like one of the top three FR guys for 4E, that means we might be getting too much of this stuff.
Exactly, I think the Far Realms stuff is OK as long as there isn't too much of it.
My main problem with Bruce's writing is the "real worldisms" that take me right out of the story, such as "The Body Shop" (as the name of a store!) and expressions like "everything's coming up roses" (from a Broadway musical).
Though as an aside, what I'm hearing lately about novels is making me more and more glad I don't bother with them too often.
I was expecting something different than the Cerulean Sign to explain the Abeir-Toril mystery! Cause whats really going to happen when the Spellplague hits!!!Far Realmsian stuff in FR:
* Aberrations by default, particularly in the Underdark. And particularly Mind Flayers, Aboleths and the like.
* The Marco Volo adventure trilogy, featured an artifact that would summon a Far Realmsian god called the Dragonking. Volo's Guide To All Things Magical summarizes the artifact and adds that if the Dragonking were ever to be released, Garagos would appear to (hopefully) slay him. I like that the berserker god is the last hope for Toril.
* Some kind of cult in Waterdeep I don't know anything about.
* The Twilight Tomb adventure, which I'm reading currently, seems to be heading that way, with aberrations and bizarre stuff going on. This no doubt links into Stardeep - it's "based on an adventure concept by Bruce Cordell".
* The vestige Zceryll the Star-Spawn, seen here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070718
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ps/20070306a
With the Well Of Dragons and the pseudonatural dragon elaborated on in Dragons Of Faerun.
* The Imaskari seemed to have had some links with the Far Realms as well, going by Darkvision.
IMG, I hinted at a Far Realms connection with the new Spawn Of Tiamat monsters as mutant dragons emanating from the Well Of Dragons. Mainly because a PC rolled a high Knowledge (Planes) instead of Arcana.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9676
Look at the bottom. I am an idiot.;)
For some reason, the Fey deemed it neccesary to 'seed' the world with their creations - caretakers, perhaps? They seem to have some sort of clandestine purpose involving locking away 'horrors' (read: aberrations), and have left both the Star Elves and the Imaskari the knowledge to do so.
So just because Abeir isn't the Far Realm, it doesn't mean that the Far Realm, or at least aberrations, are not involved with it's 'return'. If a world becomes to 'unbalanced' by "un-natural forces", who better to show up and put things right then "nature's Caretakers"? I think on some cosmic level there must be "gaurdians of the natural order" - the Fey. ;)
Just my newest spin on things. :D
And Drizzt did mention the 'rise of the Aboleths' or some such nonsense, which means that they WILL show up in FORCE as a result of the Spellplague. Probably magic going on the fritz is going to unleash all sorts of badness the Fey (Le'Shay) had locked away, not just the Aboleths. Perhaps the Fey will even return the world to its natural course, once again bringing my 'Un-Sundering' theory into play.
I don't care HOW they explain it, as long as they don't jump the setting a century I'll be Okay.
"gaurdians of the natural order" - the Fey.
No, that's the Rilmani.
No, that's the Rilmani.
Seriously, I don't know what that is. It sounds familiar, but I have no sources with me.
EDIT: Just Wiki'd it - they don't sound like what I was picturing... maybe I'm thinking neutral-good or something like that. Its hard to think of Sylvan beings so unemotional about stuff. Maybe the race I'm picturing will be these 'new & improved' Eladrin.
Seriously, I don't know what that is. It sounds familiar, but I have no sources with me.
Powerful neutral outsiders, if I recall correctly.
Hmm, does anyone like the "FR merges with Eberron" theory? I do!
I would rather have 2 foot long stiching needles shoved through my eyeballs than to have to deal with that!!!;) :P
The idea of Fey in any way supporting the "natural balance" makes me giggle like a school girl.
Maybe I misworded that. Let me try to explain what I'm thinking a little better -
I'm not thinking 'Pure Balance' (ie, natural order or 'true neutral'), but rather 'protectors of nature' in regards to balance (but not THE Balance).
The Rilmani sound more like something that would be about restoring the 'cosmic balance', while I'm thinking of a group along the lines of Dark Sun's Pyreen - A group that tries to restore the balance in nature (and return Athas to a state of being a fertile world once again).
Were detailed in Planescape... the Monstrous Compendium Appendix II has a considerable amount of info on them.
The Monstrous Appendix II is the Dark Sun one, and I checked it. I also checked the the one on the Outer Planes and NO Rilmani. I even checked the one on Spelljammer and found the Reigar, who seem like a combination of the ultimate Gold Elf and the Sensates(?) from Planescape (they're all about experiencing new things, and are so self-absorbed they make Gold Elves look 'charitable').
Still can't find any Rilmani - are you sure it was in Appendix II?
Don't forget that there were the original 'pages' version, and then later bound books were released. The bound book Appendix II is the Dark Sun one.
Is there any info about what 'Empyrean' actually stands for?
From Wikipedia...
Empyrean, from the Medieval Latin empyreus, an adaptation of the Ancient Greek, "in or on the fire (pyr)", properly Empyrean Heaven, is the place in the highest heaven, which in ancient cosmologies was supposed to be occupied by the element of fire (or aether in Aristotle's natural philosophy).
Use in literature:
The Empyrean was thus used as a name for the firmament, and in Christian literature, notably the Divine Comedy, for the dwelling-place of God and the blessed, and as the source of light. The word is used both as a substantive and as an adjective. Having the same Greek origin are the scientific words empyreuma and empyreumatic, applied to the characteristic smell of burning or charring vegetable or animal matter.
Not sure how that fits with everything (if at all), but I thought I'd throw it out there...
Now, although I believe this "merging" is probably more metaphoric (is that a word?) than an actual physical thing. Has anyone considered that they could merge FR with the world of *Dramatic Music* Magic:The Gathering?
Not a pleasant thought, but certainly no more crackpot than any others.
Just my 2cp worth...
The Monstrous Appendix II is the Dark Sun one, and I checked it. I also checked the the one on the Outer Planes and NO Rilmani. I even checked the one on Spelljammer and found the Reigar, who seem like a combination of the ultimate Gold Elf and the Sensates(?) from Planescape (they're all about experiencing new things, and are so self-absorbed they make Gold Elves look 'charitable').
Still can't find any Rilmani - are you sure it was in Appendix II?
Don't forget that there were the original 'psges' version, and then later bound books were released. The bound book Appendix II is the Dark Sun one.
Looking back, I see I didn't mention it was a Planescape specific book... was TSR 2613 if that helps any.
Looking back, I see I didn't mention it was a Planescape specific book... was TSR 2613 if that helps any.
Just downloaded it from Paizo... nice book, I'll have to get the other two as well. I think I have all the boxed sets for Planescape, but didn't really buy the individual books (I had no intention of running it, I just wanted a better understanding of the Great Wheel).
The fact that several of the boxes are still shrink-wrapped give you some clue as to how 'deeply' I delved into the subject matter.
Thanks for the info - lots on the Eladrin in there as well, which is VERY helpful with 4e coming our way.
I was getting those $30 boxes for $7.50. :P
The cult in Waterdeep would probably be the Cult of Ghaundaur.
For some reason I keep thinking Luskan's going to get taken down by the aboleth, or the wizards of the Hosstower Arcane will wig out and blow the place up themselves.
And I'm betting it'll be a century jump because that'll also give the shades time to reclaim parts of the desert and turn it into arable land. Also, when the events of the Anauroch adventure are completed, the phaerimm will likely be free because the sharn wall will be taken down. Perhaps they'll try something other than to create more desert? Or maybe they'll stick around to put some pressure on the shades from the west, with the Zhents in the east.
Hmm, Empyrean...Sounds like the Heavens will be set on fire, certainly the Great Wheel's going to crack and the book series would be a nice way of explaining everything being washed into the Astral Sea...although it won't be finished until 2009. Ugh. Too long.
Toril merging with the world of Magic: The Gathering? *puts two shells in the proverbial shotgun and aims* That would be lame. But it isn't any crazier than other theories, I'll grant that.
How's this for a consequence of the Spellplague? Halruaa being severely weakened and Dambrath conquering them? A century later, they'll need *ahem* adventurers to help them out. Or perhaps the nalfeshnee nearby builds a kingdom nearby. Another monster kingdom in the area.
But none of that relates to how we actually get there from here so...
I may have to read that series soon (:yuck
just for it's 'historical' content.We KNOW the Aboleths are going to screw something up majorly, else Drizzt would not have mentioned them a century later. The fact that he knows or cares so much about them also most likely means that their 'break-out' will occur in The North.
I think they will be putting a hurtin' on Waterdeep, myself - with all it's connections to the Underdark it would be a no-brainer. Luskan, on the other hand, gets wiped out every century or so. Since the Hostower was built by a Netherese Archmage, my money's on that the Shades are gonna 'come a' callin'. ;)
Anyhow, the part about a remnant of the sharn wall comes straight from an excerpt on WotC's site for the Anuaroch adventure.
Luskan being destroyed by the Shades...that could well be the other possibility. They tend to play nice and make a decent offer only once, then it's lights-out with Shar and her pals.
As for Waterdeep, with the Promendade abandoned/destroyed and an avatar of Ghaunadar free to roam below (which is what I expect)...and with the Mad Mage dead...just about anything can march through Undermountain.
:coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul Although I try to stick to mamals for the most part. ;)
As for the aboleth under Waterdeep, yes indeed and so were the mind flayers and the sharn. (Back in the day my adventuring party used to play Whack a Mole with them teleporting buggers, so glad the ranger had a vorpal sword...)
Of course, some of the other comments beg the question: If you call an orc 'a man' (meant with respect) will he take it the right way? Probably not.
If you turn into an aboleth fanatic the way Creyzi has for orcs, I'm sening an squadron of elephants to be dropped on your house from 10,000 feet...
Scans the sky looking for a floating aboleth city, so I can prostrate my self before their might!!!;) Rise mighty Xxiphu, rise!:P
:coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :P
...
:bounce: :bounce: BAM!
Sushi, anyone? ;)
He can take care of the Illithids while he is there as well - I heard he has a terrific recipe for Calimari. :P
...
Makes you think, huh?
Btw, did they ask Wolfgang which version of D&D he prefers? Has he ever tried Neverwijnter Nights I or II? :P (Just adding some game-relevant stuff so no one complains)
No rehashing of old ones?
Does anyone besides me think that the core cosmology WILL be FR's as well?
No new theories?
No rehashing of old ones?
Does anyone besides me think that the core cosmology WILL be FR's as well?
I was thinking it a possibility. No matter what, MY Realms will never be Core.
One of the things I have enjoyed about DnD is that not only can you make the game your own, but that it had provided a variety of worlds to play in with the same basic set of rules. You chose your style. If you wanted gritty you picked up Dark Sun. Gothic horror you picked up Ravenloft. Epic and detailed FR. From what I have picked up all of the campaign settings are going to be more or less very similar in tone and feel. The Points of Light idea for the core game is perfectly fine and makes sense for trying to draw in new, especially younger, audiences. It is more accessible. Not that myself or my other friends ever had trouble with FR. I have brought plenty of players into. Those who were intrigued were fascinated it had so much you could find. Others who didn't care about that still played... they just didn't pick up books and books of material. They stuck with the few books they liked and enjoyed the game. I suppose it helped instead of handing them the book and saying,"Ok where do you want to be from?" I would ask,"What sort of place do you want to be from?" then open the book to the correct spot and showed them the small description provided. Some that was enough. Others wanted more. A few glanced at it and shrugged. Either way the FR game was enjoyed or not despite those reactions.
It also feels like that the current developers are trying to make DnD more specific. More like other RPGs that have a specific setting to the rules instead of a set of rules that works for a couple of settings. That is alright too I suppose, that would be fine. Might not interest me, but we'll see. I have sort of preffered the almost generic nature of DnD melding it to whatever I wanted to play. Back in the game more days a week than not period of my life during and immediately after high school this probably would have interested me more. Now I like to mess with as few rules systems as possible to get the most bang out of my buck so to speak.
I was a huge proponent of 3rd and 3.5 among my circle of friends. It actually took quite a bit to get everyone on board 3rd in the first place just because things became more generic than in 2nd (which I was for). 4E has some things that sound great and others that I am wary about. I may or may not pick it up, same with FR in 4E. Though I am much more wary about 4E FR than 4E in general. WotC may have lost me as a customer. Might have helped if we heard about intentions in changes before they were set in print. Oh well though
I can play 3rd or even 2nd edition still. Or other games. We'll see next year.Its just kind of sad though - even though it can still be fit in with few changes, it has gone from being THE cosmology to just another world...
in the "less is more" universe of 4e.
Does anyone remember the story of The Emperor's New Clothes? Remember how all the folks in charge kept telling everyone how 'cool' the king was? They kept saying it so much some people actually started to believe it.
But in the end one clever little boy realized everyone else were idiots and the Emperor was naked...
There was NOTHING there... just air and bulls__t.
Sound familiar? ;)
No change there then.
The realms has a pretty mild transistion with respect to her current great tree and the coming spellplague. The gods holding planar realms together makes some sense. The great wheel has gotten a new interpretation, it feels a bit like its flushed out by the astral sea and less infinite somehow. I sure hope they do a realms planar book and add to the detailing of the godly domains.
I think its the merging of three worlds. Ravenloft, Toril and Feärie. Shadowfell forms as the bonds between the realms and the mists increase and Shar or Mask gains power; the Feywild invades the more remote areas of fearun, seeping through to the material with the help of the Seldarine and Nature gods.
What if part of whats going to happen has to do with Eshadow - You don't think Shar would work with someone with Shadow in their name? If they release Dender the Night Serpent, and Ubtao can't stop him, he may just "eat the sun" all over again.
Lathander becomes snake food, and Shar plunges the world into darkness. Sounds like a goal worthy of Shar, and it is canon that Dender does his thing "at the end of the world", which the final entry in the GHotR seems to make it out to be.
Then the lights come back on, and guess what? It's a 'brave, new world'
...
Hey! Sounds like a WotC business plan to me. :P
I have a NEW theory!
What if part of whats going to happen has to do with Eshadow - You don't think Shar would work with someone with Shadow in their name? If they release Dender the Night Serpent, and Ubtao can't stop him, he may just "eat the sun" all over again.
Lathander becomes snake food, and Shar plunges the world into darkness. Sounds like a goal worthy of Shar, and it is canon that Dender does his thing "at the end of the world", which the final entry in the GHotR seems to make it out to be.
Then the lights come back on, and guess what? It's a 'brave, new world'
Its a big shame though that "Eshowdo" (I am sure the spelling was not a literal shadow with some add ons , but i cannot remember the correct spelling anyway, and still don't have those books shipped overseas
.)He, that shadowy person has absolutely nothing to do in his original content with Shar, sigh!!!!!!, and i loath him being annexed so easily into cannon, and forgotten in regards to his original storyline!
Bleh...
"The All-Seeing seems unsuprised by Shar's actions of late and bitterly opposes her use of the Shadow Weave to disrupt the efficacy of his divinations."
Hmmm... it seems that Savras was hot on her trail, and maybe within reach of discovering her plans, and she was using her portfolio to block his.
Interesting......
Not directly to do with the 'merger', but since this seems to be one of the few '4e theory' threads still going, I'll post it here - It has to do with Savras from F&P -
"The All-Seeing seems unsuprised by Shar's actions of late and bitterly opposes her use of the Shadow Weave to disrupt the efficacy of his divinations."
Hmmm... it seems that Savras was hot on her trail, and maybe within reach of discovering her plans, and she was using her portfolio to block his.
Interesting......
See, Savras is not a useless little god,
Go Savras...kick shadow butt, thatcrappylittlegoth*****uptonogoodshar I don't see anything particularly illuminating about it. It's like not being surprised that Cyric has his minions killing or Mask just stole a mystic book from Oghma's library. Shar keeps secrets as second nature and always has an ace (or three) up her sleeve, she's the Uber-Deity of Evil as ordained by the head honchos themselves...
You know Long raven black hair, a ton of eye make up, tatoos & piercings, hell bent for leather, with KNEE HIGH BLACK LEATHER BOOTS. Wow I would become her new high preist if WotC made her that way.:D
Forget the Aboleths, bring on my necro goth princess SHAR!!!
Sounds more like a fetishist than a goth to me... Old-School Goth here, and as LK pointed out Old-School > Everything Else.
seems these days anything that needs to sound cool or interesting, gets called 'Old School' or 'Retro' or whatnot, sigh, even music from when i was young gets that namer attached just so kids these days can grasp what happened 15 - 20 years ago, because their simple tiny brain cannot compute
and btw, the QUOTE is not working, nice new provider for these boards, yea riiight :P
Gleemax doesn't fill me with any "Glee" what-so-ever.
Except...I also read that Savras was very troubled by his inability to see into the future.
It wasn't meant to be inspiring, but rather just interesting - in lieu of events that we now know WILL take place.
Reading into that (which is something I'm sure everyone realizes I love to do), in most stories, novels, films, etc (not FR), when an 'oracle' has trouble discerning events past a certain point, or surrounding a certain individual, it usually means that there are two seperate paths that history could take. I forget what they call them in the SoT novels, but basically these 'junctures' is where prophesy splits and follows a different path. The rest of the property down that path becomes meaningless once another path is chosen. Thats the main problem with prophesy - you can never really be certain if your living within an event until AFTER the event takes place, making it practically worthless.
Now, apply these rules established by other genre to our Realms, it appears that there may have been on of these critical junctures that Savras couldn't see past thanks to Shar's interference. This, of course, backs up my theory that Shar had forseen this 'alternate future' as one acceptable to her, and has been manipulating events in that direction since the ToT- or even as far back as the ascension of the dark Three! Savras no longer appears to be an innocent bystander caught up in the slaughter, but rather an agent of Mystra that was either there to warn her or manipulate events in such a way as to have a better outcome even further down the road.
In this light, Savras becomes a player in the Drama, rather hten just canon-fodder. I would like to think so, ecause it makes mefeel a little better about his seemingly pointless death.
Cause Shar is a sexy goth nihlist. :D
You know Long raven black hair, a ton of eye make up, tatoos & piercings, hell bent for leather, with KNEE HIGH BLACK LEATHER BOOTS. Wow I would become her new high preist if WotC made her that way.:D
Forget the Aboleths, bring on my necro goth princess SHAR!!!
IMG, she has an all-female order of nuns in her service -
:DThats what I've been saying... like the now-infamous "countdown to Oblivion" back during Gencon. Nothing like Server Crashes to inspire you to spend your money on something they've been giving you for Free.
Gleemax doesn't fill me with any "Glee" what-so-ever.
It wasn't meant to be inspiring, but rather just interesting - in lieu of events that we now know WILL take place.
Reading into that (which is something I'm sure everyone realizes I love to do), in most stories, novels, films, etc (not FR), when an 'oracle' has trouble discerning events past a certain point, or surrounding a certain individual, it usually means that there are two seperate paths that history could take. I forget what they call them in the SoT novels, but basically these 'junctures' is where prophesy splits and follows a different path. The rest of the property down that path becomes meaningless once another path is chosen. Thats the main problem with prophesy - you can never really be certain if your living within an event until AFTER the event takes place, making it practically worthless.
Now, apply these rules established by other genre to our Realms, it appears that there may have been on of these critical junctures that Savras couldn't see past thanks to Shar's interference. This, of course, backs up my theory that Shar had forseen this 'alternate future' as one acceptable to her, and has been manipulating events in that direction since the ToT- or even as far back as the ascension of the dark Three! Savras no longer appears to be an innocent bystander caught up in the slaughter, but rather an agent of Mystra that was either there to warn her or manipulate events in such a way as to have a better outcome even further down the road.
In this light, Savras becomes a player in the Drama, rather hten just canon-fodder. I would like to think so, ecause it makes mefeel a little better about his seemingly pointless death.
IMG, she has an all-female order of nuns in her service -
MT63:bounce: :bounce:
YOU JUST MADE MY DAY PARDNER!!!:D
CAPS ON PURPOSE!:P
I AM...SO SICK!;)
Google it, and ignore any entries about the Swedish Rock Group of the same name.
GREAT comic, BTW. :P
That's how I picture MY Shar religion.
Yep, it is indeed cartoonish.
Y'know, though, with that image in mind I could see Shar swallowing up Loviatar and taking over as a goddess of 'dark pleasures' as well. Might tick Bane off just a bit as he likes having lackeys and might see that as a 'shot over the bow' by Shar.
;)
That pic is actually pretty tame - the followers of Loviatar IMG are MUCH worse - I base them on the Mord'Sith from the Sword of Truth novels - magic-stealing powers and all.
I post a picture of one, but picture a Drow Matron Priestess, who is considered a Sadist by DROW standards.
I tell you, I really like the Crinti as well - that pic of one in the SS tome is so cool - it looks like an Anime version of a hot Drow girl. A Drow with pigtails! Whoever thought of THAT - kudos, big time. :D
Found it -
I think I'm in love.
Sword of Truth, Wizards First Rule Rocked(only book that I have read by Mr. Goodkind)! Maybe thats what WotC is doing in 4E, the Wizards First Rule!:P Those that have read it Know what I mean. The Mord-Sith are awesome in a Shar+Loviatar kinky sorta way!;)
So the newest theory on the merger is that the FR will merge with the world of BDSM?
:D One can only hope and pray so!;)
Don't ask about the fetish girls I used to date, I could get into trouble.
:D
'Cause, mixing Transformers with Star War was such a cool idea...
Thats why the Batman was always drawn in shades of grey and navy blue, when his costume was black. He'd have no muscle-tone, otherwise.
Anyway, bringing in a little 'Darkeness' Sword of Truth style would be cool, and I'd probably love it.....
but it wouldn't be FR. ;)
I was reading a monster entry yesterday and the creatrure was described as having blonde hair, but the artist did it with black. I wonder sometimes if they actually read the entries before doing their thing.
I notice that a lot actually...
Me too!
I understand why pure black would be hard to use, but pretty soon purple is going to be a legitimate color for drow or half-drow (art often ends up shaping lore).
The front/back cover depictions of the drow from D3 Vault of the Drow included a priestess with a few 'sheens' of violet/magenta on her and a drow vampire that was more blue than black. Could just chalk it up to some backlighting out-of-view of the scene shown.
I wouldn't worry about the shading in newer artwork, for me it's more about the actual linework. Some artists get it right, others shouldn't be allowed near a D&D/FR gamebook.
I understand why pure black would be hard to use, but pretty soon purple is going to be a legitimate color for drow or half-drow (art often ends up shaping lore).
Anyone ever watch the Duck Dodgers cartoon? The Mars queen is how drow should look. Well perhaps a little less cartoony. And that was pure black.
You mean Queen Tyr'ahnee?
Yes with some slight modification you have what I picture a drow to look like with their pure black skin...
Yes with some slight modification you have what I picture a drow to look like with their pure black skin...
:OMG! Is that the new Chosen of Lolth?:P
Still... a nose would have been nice....
Better Pic of her, original artist: *DrewGardener
Yes, notice the luscious hips one can see-through the sheer skirt - so thats what kids cartoons look like these days?
Still... a nose would have been nice....
Better Pic of her, original artist: *DrewGardener
She does have a nose...check out the pink stipe accropss her face...it is just hard to see.
18D;)
-How about this old thread. Should it come back to life?:P
-No, based on nothing else but that picture. I know or remember nothing else about this thread, however. I will now review, though.
So do we know for sure what the whole merging of to worlds was really about?
-Well, part of 'Abeir', whatever that is, replaced certain parts of Unther, Mulhorand, and all of Maztica. Other than that, though...
18D
-They tricked us!!! The merging of the two worlds was the merging of the FR Forums.!!!
18D
-Perhaps.