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moon elf appearance

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
emoo
Aug 23, 2008 11:59:11 anyone one have any details on how they look in 4 th edition wanna make for up comming campaign but not sure of appearance do they still look the same as old?
#2
admcewen
Aug 23, 2008 13:35:19 I believe so, although they are now also refered to as Eladrin as well as Moon/Silver Elves and I'm sure someone will soon be along to rage against this name addition/change....
#3
the_shaman
Aug 23, 2008 13:37:08 If it's moon elves, they should look similar... But if moons are eladrins, what are golds?
#4
lord_karsus
Aug 23, 2008 14:17:58 -Moon/Sun/Star Elves reflect the statistics for D&D 'Eladrin'. Everything about them is still the same, except that they use those D&D stats. Their appearance? Same as it ever was.
#5
barthalas
Aug 23, 2008 15:38:22
-Moon/Sun/Star Elves reflect the statistics for D&D 'Eladrin'. Everything about them is still the same, except that they use those D&D stats. Their appearance? Same as it ever was.

According to Rich Baker that statement is ALMOST 100% true. The Moon/Sun/Star Elves will all have the "Eladrin" eyes. That is to say, no whites. In the "Ask the Author" thread he mentioned that he was against it but lost the argument with the designers. He said he wanted us to know about the change so when we see the illustrations of them we wouldn't be shocked. He said one possible way of thinking about it could be that is was a side effect of the Feywild's return to close proximity. Don't know if I really like that explanation yet.
#6
merrikcale
Aug 23, 2008 15:40:07
anyone one have any details on how they look in 4 th edition wanna make for up comming campaign but not sure of appearance do they still look the same as old?

nah, they now all loof like Bea Arthur
#7
lord_karsus
Aug 23, 2008 17:15:35
According to Rich Baker that statement is ALMOST 100% true. The Moon/Sun/Star Elves will all have the "Eladrin" eyes. That is to say, no whites.

-Many Moon/Sun/Star Elves, due to magical processes and/or age, did not have visible pupils, either.

-No big deal.
#8
sier_labeguileuse_dup
May 27, 2009 17:28:43
According to Rich Baker that statement is ALMOST 100% true. The Moon/Sun/Star Elves will all have the "Eladrin" eyes. That is to say, no whites. In the "Ask the Author" thread he mentioned that he was against it but lost the argument with the designers. He said he wanted us to know about the change so when we see the illustrations of them we wouldn't be shocked. He said one possible way of thinking about it could be that is was a side effect of the Feywild's return to close proximity. Don't know if I really like that explanation yet.

No, he won, because someone collecting people's eye balls is too stupid to be forgiven. The following compromise is my conclusion, which I will defend with shin-kicking wrath:

Sun and Moon elves still have their same old eyes. Eladrin born in the feywild, due to fey wild mojo, have whacky, 4e core eyes.
#9
niirfa
May 27, 2009 18:02:14 As sometimes happens with online queries (hey, they're only human), Rich Baker's statement isn't supported by the printed material. The official art for eladrin in the FRPG doesn't seem to support the idea that all eladrin have the eyes used in the PHB for 4e.

See this official art for Eladrin, that we're currently using on the wiki:

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/5/5a/4e_eladrin.jpg

Since noble eladrin always had 4e eyes, I think the above poster's summary more or less sums up what's canon. It's what we're using on the wiki anyhow.
#10
sier_labeguileuse_dup
May 27, 2009 20:05:34 That's what sense I made of those sources, too. So any given designer can say whatever random piece they like, but the information available supports eladrin with or without pupils, based on origin and sub-race.
#11
lord_karsus
May 27, 2009 23:13:03 -Just, as a heads up, the "official" artists for Lady of Poison and Darkvision had two very different depictions of Ususi, which different somewhat from her description in the actual books themselves somewhat. So, not much credence should be put into independently contracted illustrations. ;)
#12
leiril
May 28, 2009 7:08:31
-Just, as a heads up, the "official" artists for Lady of Poison and Darkvision had two very different depictions of Ususi, which different somewhat from her description in the actual books themselves somewhat. So, not much credence should be put into independently contracted illustrations. ;)

That is also true for the art of Todd Lockwood. As much as I like and appreciate his art, the details of his novel covers did seldom match with the descriptions given in the books for the characters. Take a look how he illustrates Bruenor, nothing there of the old dented helm with the one broken horn. The older covers were more accurate showing these smaller details. Also his cover of Promise of the Witch King was not that accurate considering the equipment and their descreptions given by RAS in the novel. But besides that, his new covers of Starlight and Shadows are much better than the old ones and I really like them (but I am still not sure what the second shows, where Liriel holds something infront of her. Could not be the Windwalker, cause that is described as a small chisel).
#13
sier_labeguileuse_dup
May 28, 2009 21:35:23 So it's agreed, unanimously, that moon elves have pupils and irises. This is cannon, now and forever. Thank you all for your contributions to the scholarly process.
#14
markustay63
May 29, 2009 10:22:39 The way I look at it - and this is based partially on canon - the Elves Eyes are 'windows to their souls' (yes... I know.. very poetic... shut-up...). Their Eyes have been described in canon as 'changing' depending on their mood.

Well... since Eladrin are the 'upper Echelon' of the Elven family-tree, and they are the ones most closely associated with High Magic, it stands to reason that their eyes are affected while arcane energies "course through their bodies".

Ergo, while spellcasting - or in a 'highly-charged' emotionally state - their irises fade-out and swirling motes and light appear.

Nothing original there, BTW... you'll note that the X-Men Storm has no irises when she is using her powers, but when she is plain ol' Ororo, she has her pupils. The elemental energies running through her effects how her eyes appear.

There ya' go - a nice, neat fix for the art dept. (do I have to do everything around here?) :P
#15
leiril
May 29, 2009 10:29:36
the Elves Eyes are 'windows to their souls' (yes... I know.. very poetic... shut-up...).

Elven eyes windows to their souls? In another word, if they don't have pupils they have empty eyes -> Elves are soulless monsters. I have suspected that, but that proves it to everyone. :D
#16
markustay63
May 29, 2009 10:45:32 Don't you know? Everytime you use magic, you lose a tiny bit of your soul.

Just ask the Catholic Church. ;)

Since Elves live MUCH longer then other races, they have a much higher chance of 'falling' from grace (as they slowly use-up thier souls casting their glamours).

You can spin this crap any way you want. :P
#17
sier_labeguileuse_dup
May 29, 2009 16:46:50 I'll ignore everything else that's been said since I posted and just snatch up the eyes glazed over with magic when casting idea. Sounds good.
#18
markustay63
May 29, 2009 22:45:05 Well, that last post was tongue-in-cheek, but the stuff about the eyes changing while channeling arcane energies was serious (and pretty good, if I do say so myself). ;)
#19
lord_karsus
May 29, 2009 23:04:04 -Nothing to contradict it, so it's all good. Poetic and flavorful.
#20
angelus_obscura
May 30, 2009 22:17:43
Nothing original there, BTW... you'll note that the X-Men Storm has no irises when she is using her powers, but when she is plain ol' Ororo, she has her pupils. The elemental energies running through her effects how her eyes appear.

You're partly right. Storm's whitening of the eyes aren't actually because of the energies she is channeling, but an add-on mutation [to her psionic weather manipulation]. Her eyes become white so she can see in the electromagnetic spectrum, allowing her to see energy patterns, heat signatures, and even see in the dark. Hey, she's drow! xD

The more you know ...
#21
markustay63
May 31, 2009 7:20:50 Well... yeah....

But it started out "because it looks kewl", which is exactly why some 4e Eladrin have no pupils. Gives them that 'other-worldy' look.

So maybe the High Elves (old-school term) are looking into the Arcano-dweomic spectrum. :D
#22
lord_karsus
May 31, 2009 10:06:51
So maybe the High Elves (old-school term) are looking into the Arcano-dweomic spectrum. :D

-Arcane Sight is indeed a spell that lets you do that. Araevin used said spell in one of the Last Mythal books.
#23
angelus_obscura
May 31, 2009 10:11:29
Well... yeah....

But it started put "because it looks kewl", which is exactly why some 4e Eladrin have no pupils. Gives them that 'other-worldy' look.

So maybe the High Elves (old-school term) are looking into the Arcano-dweomic spectrum. :D

Exactamundo. ;)

-Arcane Sight is indeed a spell that lets you do that. Araevin used said spell in one of the Last Mythal books.

Well, lucky for Araevin that he doesn't have to cast such a puny spell to work mighty magics from now on. :P
#24
markustay63
May 31, 2009 14:11:39 Yup.

Now that the Eladrin have managed to re-establish their symbiotic link to the Realm of Faerie... errrr... Feywild.

Those High Elves are all "getting in-touch with their inner faery" now. :D
#25
davesaunders
Jun 06, 2009 11:28:50 why dont the official books clarify this? isnt that their point? i dont use things like that but it doesnt make too much sense.
#26
sier_labeguileuse_dup
Jun 08, 2009 15:33:59 The ph says eladrin have no pupils... but the frpg says moon elves and sun elves use eladrin stats, and they have always had human-like eyes. There are pictures of a couple moon elves in the frpg that have human looking eyes. So basically, with the new feywild bringing in foreign eladrin, the only logical conclusion is that moon elves are still the same but feywild eladrin might have shown up that have weird, pupilless eyes. It would have been nice if the frpg or frcg threw in a couple sentences to clarify it, but its fine enough now.
#27
lord_karsus
Jun 08, 2009 21:32:25
The ph says eladrin have no pupils... but the frpg says moon elves and sun elves use eladrin stats, and they have always had human-like eyes. There are pictures of a couple moon elves in the frpg that have human looking eyes. So basically, with the new feywild bringing in foreign eladrin, the only logical conclusion is that moon elves are still the same but feywild eladrin might have shown up that have weird, pupilless eyes. It would have been nice if the frpg or frcg threw in a couple sentences to clarify it, but its fine enough now.

-The answer is that they appear as the FRCG/FRPG describe/picture them, because Forgotten Realms materials take precedent over the Forgotten Realms than 'Core' D&D materials. As with various monsters described in Monster Manualss, or in DRAGON/DUNGEON magazines, if a Forgotten Realms source says something differently, that's the one that counts.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 emoo Aug 23, 2008 11:59:11	anyone one have any details on how they look in 4 th edition wanna make for up comming campaign but not sure of appearance do they still look the same as old?
#2 admcewen Aug 23, 2008 13:35:19	I believe so, although they are now also refered to as Eladrin as well as Moon/Silver Elves and I'm sure someone will soon be along to rage against this name addition/change....
#3 the_shaman Aug 23, 2008 13:37:08	If it's moon elves, they should look similar... But if moons are eladrins, what are golds?
#4 lord_karsus Aug 23, 2008 14:17:58	-Moon/Sun/Star Elves reflect the statistics for D&D 'Eladrin'. Everything about them is still the same, except that they use those D&D stats. Their appearance? Same as it ever was.
#5 barthalas Aug 23, 2008 15:38:22	-Moon/Sun/Star Elves reflect the statistics for D&D 'Eladrin'. Everything about them is still the same, except that they use those D&D stats. Their appearance? Same as it ever was. According to Rich Baker that statement is ALMOST 100% true. The Moon/Sun/Star Elves will all have the "Eladrin" eyes. That is to say, no whites. In the "Ask the Author" thread he mentioned that he was against it but lost the argument with the designers. He said he wanted us to know about the change so when we see the illustrations of them we wouldn't be shocked. He said one possible way of thinking about it could be that is was a side effect of the Feywild's return to close proximity. Don't know if I really like that explanation yet.
#6 merrikcale Aug 23, 2008 15:40:07	anyone one have any details on how they look in 4 th edition wanna make for up comming campaign but not sure of appearance do they still look the same as old? nah, they now all loof like Bea Arthur
#7 lord_karsus Aug 23, 2008 17:15:35	According to Rich Baker that statement is ALMOST 100% true. The Moon/Sun/Star Elves will all have the "Eladrin" eyes. That is to say, no whites. -Many Moon/Sun/Star Elves, due to magical processes and/or age, did not have visible pupils, either. -No big deal.
#8 sier_labeguileuse_dup May 27, 2009 17:28:43	According to Rich Baker that statement is ALMOST 100% true. The Moon/Sun/Star Elves will all have the "Eladrin" eyes. That is to say, no whites. In the "Ask the Author" thread he mentioned that he was against it but lost the argument with the designers. He said he wanted us to know about the change so when we see the illustrations of them we wouldn't be shocked. He said one possible way of thinking about it could be that is was a side effect of the Feywild's return to close proximity. Don't know if I really like that explanation yet. No, he won, because someone collecting people's eye balls is too stupid to be forgiven. The following compromise is my conclusion, which I will defend with shin-kicking wrath: Sun and Moon elves still have their same old eyes. Eladrin born in the feywild, due to fey wild mojo, have whacky, 4e core eyes.
#9 niirfa May 27, 2009 18:02:14	As sometimes happens with online queries (hey, they're only human), Rich Baker's statement isn't supported by the printed material. The official art for eladrin in the FRPG doesn't seem to support the idea that all eladrin have the eyes used in the PHB for 4e. See this official art for Eladrin, that we're currently using on the wiki: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/5/5a/4e_eladrin.jpg Since noble eladrin always had 4e eyes, I think the above poster's summary more or less sums up what's canon. It's what we're using on the wiki anyhow.
#10 sier_labeguileuse_dup May 27, 2009 20:05:34	That's what sense I made of those sources, too. So any given designer can say whatever random piece they like, but the information available supports eladrin with or without pupils, based on origin and sub-race.
#11 lord_karsus May 27, 2009 23:13:03	-Just, as a heads up, the "official" artists for Lady of Poison and Darkvision had two very different depictions of Ususi, which different somewhat from her description in the actual books themselves somewhat. So, not much credence should be put into independently contracted illustrations. ;)
#12 leiril May 28, 2009 7:08:31	-Just, as a heads up, the "official" artists for Lady of Poison and Darkvision had two very different depictions of Ususi, which different somewhat from her description in the actual books themselves somewhat. So, not much credence should be put into independently contracted illustrations. ;) That is also true for the art of Todd Lockwood. As much as I like and appreciate his art, the details of his novel covers did seldom match with the descriptions given in the books for the characters. Take a look how he illustrates Bruenor, nothing there of the old dented helm with the one broken horn. The older covers were more accurate showing these smaller details. Also his cover of Promise of the Witch King was not that accurate considering the equipment and their descreptions given by RAS in the novel. But besides that, his new covers of Starlight and Shadows are much better than the old ones and I really like them (but I am still not sure what the second shows, where Liriel holds something infront of her. Could not be the Windwalker, cause that is described as a small chisel).
#13 sier_labeguileuse_dup May 28, 2009 21:35:23	So it's agreed, unanimously, that moon elves have pupils and irises. This is cannon, now and forever. Thank you all for your contributions to the scholarly process.
#14 markustay63 May 29, 2009 10:22:39	The way I look at it - and this is based partially on canon - the Elves Eyes are 'windows to their souls' (yes... I know.. very poetic... shut-up...). Their Eyes have been described in canon as 'changing' depending on their mood. Well... since Eladrin are the 'upper Echelon' of the Elven family-tree, and they are the ones most closely associated with High Magic, it stands to reason that their eyes are affected while arcane energies "course through their bodies". Ergo, while spellcasting - or in a 'highly-charged' emotionally state - their irises fade-out and swirling motes and light appear. Nothing original there, BTW... you'll note that the X-Men Storm has no irises when she is using her powers, but when she is plain ol' Ororo, she has her pupils. The elemental energies running through her effects how her eyes appear. There ya' go - a nice, neat fix for the art dept. (do I have to do everything around here?) :P
#15 leiril May 29, 2009 10:29:36	the Elves Eyes are 'windows to their souls' (yes... I know.. very poetic... shut-up...). Elven eyes windows to their souls? In another word, if they don't have pupils they have empty eyes -> Elves are soulless monsters. I have suspected that, but that proves it to everyone. :D
#16 markustay63 May 29, 2009 10:45:32	Don't you know? Everytime you use magic, you lose a tiny bit of your soul. Just ask the Catholic Church. ;) Since Elves live MUCH longer then other races, they have a much higher chance of 'falling' from grace (as they slowly use-up thier souls casting their glamours). You can spin this crap any way you want. :P
#17 sier_labeguileuse_dup May 29, 2009 16:46:50	I'll ignore everything else that's been said since I posted and just snatch up the eyes glazed over with magic when casting idea. Sounds good.
#18 markustay63 May 29, 2009 22:45:05	Well, that last post was tongue-in-cheek, but the stuff about the eyes changing while channeling arcane energies was serious (and pretty good, if I do say so myself). ;)
#19 lord_karsus May 29, 2009 23:04:04	-Nothing to contradict it, so it's all good. Poetic and flavorful.
#20 angelus_obscura May 30, 2009 22:17:43	Nothing original there, BTW... you'll note that the X-Men Storm has no irises when she is using her powers, but when she is plain ol' Ororo, she has her pupils. The elemental energies running through her effects how her eyes appear. You're partly right. Storm's whitening of the eyes aren't actually because of the energies she is channeling, but an add-on mutation [to her psionic weather manipulation]. Her eyes become white so she can see in the electromagnetic spectrum, allowing her to see energy patterns, heat signatures, and even see in the dark. Hey, she's drow! xD The more you know ...
#21 markustay63 May 31, 2009 7:20:50	Well... yeah.... But it started out "because it looks kewl", which is exactly why some 4e Eladrin have no pupils. Gives them that 'other-worldy' look. So maybe the High Elves (old-school term) are looking into the Arcano-dweomic spectrum. :D
#22 lord_karsus May 31, 2009 10:06:51	So maybe the High Elves (old-school term) are looking into the Arcano-dweomic spectrum. :D -Arcane Sight is indeed a spell that lets you do that. Araevin used said spell in one of the Last Mythal books.
#23 angelus_obscura May 31, 2009 10:11:29	Well... yeah.... But it started put "because it looks kewl", which is exactly why some 4e Eladrin have no pupils. Gives them that 'other-worldy' look. So maybe the High Elves (old-school term) are looking into the Arcano-dweomic spectrum. :D Exactamundo. ;) -Arcane Sight is indeed a spell that lets you do that. Araevin used said spell in one of the Last Mythal books. Well, lucky for Araevin that he doesn't have to cast such a puny spell to work mighty magics from now on. :P
#24 markustay63 May 31, 2009 14:11:39	Yup. Now that the Eladrin have managed to re-establish their symbiotic link to the Realm of Faerie... errrr... Feywild. Those High Elves are all "getting in-touch with their inner faery" now. :D
#25 davesaunders Jun 06, 2009 11:28:50	why dont the official books clarify this? isnt that their point? i dont use things like that but it doesnt make too much sense.
#26 sier_labeguileuse_dup Jun 08, 2009 15:33:59	The ph says eladrin have no pupils... but the frpg says moon elves and sun elves use eladrin stats, and they have always had human-like eyes. There are pictures of a couple moon elves in the frpg that have human looking eyes. So basically, with the new feywild bringing in foreign eladrin, the only logical conclusion is that moon elves are still the same but feywild eladrin might have shown up that have weird, pupilless eyes. It would have been nice if the frpg or frcg threw in a couple sentences to clarify it, but its fine enough now.
#27 lord_karsus Jun 08, 2009 21:32:25	The ph says eladrin have no pupils... but the frpg says moon elves and sun elves use eladrin stats, and they have always had human-like eyes. There are pictures of a couple moon elves in the frpg that have human looking eyes. So basically, with the new feywild bringing in foreign eladrin, the only logical conclusion is that moon elves are still the same but feywild eladrin might have shown up that have weird, pupilless eyes. It would have been nice if the frpg or frcg threw in a couple sentences to clarify it, but its fine enough now. -The answer is that they appear as the FRCG/FRPG describe/picture them, because Forgotten Realms materials take precedent over the Forgotten Realms than 'Core' D&D materials. As with various monsters described in Monster Manualss, or in DRAGON/DUNGEON magazines, if a Forgotten Realms source says something differently, that's the one that counts.