More Menzoberranzan FRCG nitpicks - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

More Menzoberranzan FRCG nitpicks

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Malanthris
May 02, 2009 20:20:07 I realize there was already a thread similar to this subject:

I.E. Putting Barrison Del'armgo as a newly arrived second house when they've been second house for as long as I can remember lorewise (at least all my sources say they were second house).

From the 2nd edition boxed set I saw Del'armgo as a rather militant group (though they did supposedly have 17 house mages accourding to that resource). The new edition claims they have a house force second to none in the city. The Menzoberranzan boxed set set house Xorlarrin's numbers at 21.

The new setting guide says they have a greater than average number of house wizards.

Now I am wondering if this is just sloppy work by those that worked on the 4th edition resource or was this purposefully done to show a paradigm shift over the course of a century.

My take on Del'armgo was always that they were a rather militant group and concentrated on their strength of arms more than on priestly matters. My take on Xorlarrin was that they were the premier arcane power of the city. Their noble manse is called the Spelltower after all. Personally I don't really see 100 years drastically changing that given the length of an elven generation.

I suppose if I ever set a campaign there it'd be up to me to really decide, but I am wondering what others think of this?

Note: I'll admit this seems a rather mundane and minute detail nitpick but I've always had a soft spot for House Xorlarrin.
#2
Stigger
May 03, 2009 5:44:47 I think it might be a clue that perhaps the 4e Realms might not be for you... ;) :D
#3
Zireael
May 03, 2009 7:50:46 Is there anything more known on Menzo in 4e?
#4
lord_karsus
May 07, 2009 20:24:00
Is there anything more known on Menzo in 4e?

-Just whatever is in the FRCG. None of the novels that are taking place in 1,479 DR have touched on Menzoberranzan thus far.
#5
Grazel
May 08, 2009 0:50:04 Also keep in mind that near the end of the 3.x time period there was the seige on Menzo and a lot of houses took heavy casualties during Lolth's silence. As the city was rebuilt and houses gained and lost power based on the actions during the seige and Lolth's silence that it's possible that certain houses drastically altered in their makeup and position.

It's been a while since I read the last of the novels involving Lolth's silence but I seem to recall that at least one major house was destroyed and another lost a lot of power because of their ties to the invaders that was uncovered. I seem to recall both houses the OP talked about being referenced in the books but can't remember how much was talked about their involvement.
#6
Malanthris
May 14, 2009 15:48:30 This was actually a poorly worded attempt at getting conversation going on some aspects of drow society I've been pondering lately. I'm not typically a huge fan of the drow in all honesty, though I do find it interesting and I did once have plots centering around the afore-mentioned house.

I suppose it's already been said that the whole War of the Spider Queen happenings really tilted things in Menzoberranzan on their side and was likely a good catalyst for change in their society.

That being said I've always felt that drow society was a little stagnant for how chaotic they are supposed to be. The more things change the more they stay the same and the race as a whole is rather predictable. One often wonders how they have managed to survive and thrive as a civilization.

That being said I wouldn't think that Del'armgo would really forgo their more martial bent in order to persue more arcane matters. However, I thought of something that pokes holes in that opinion rather nicely. Drow are about survival. In a very short time frame from their perspective they've seen their clerical society turned on end (time of troubles and the Spider Queen's silence). It stands to reason that realizing that you can't always trust a fickle goddess (blasphemy!) it's wise to have the other major power of your society well represented in your forces (wizards). So that being said I suppose a paradigm shift isn't really all that much of a leap.

I was just wondering what others thought.

Off topic note: I've played about in the Realms for a very long time. I've always enjoyed it. I actually find the new setting to my liking, in a way. I dislike some of the changes and some of them don't make sense (but has real life always made sense to anyone?), but that's exactly what I like about it. Life doesn't always unfold the way you wish and the good guys had been winning and crushing evil for a long time. This freshened things up and raked the sand flat a little. I like that I don't like some of the changes. Also, the whole Helm dying thing made me laugh. ;)
#7
lord_karsus
May 14, 2009 17:27:17
That being said I've always felt that drow society was a little stagnant for how chaotic they are supposed to be. The more things change the more they stay the same and the race as a whole is rather predictable. One often wonders how they have managed to survive and thrive as a civilization.

-That's a theme that is mentioned often in R.A. Salvatore's novels that deal with Drow. For as chaotic and capricious a mistress Lolth is, and for as chaotic Drow society is, in general, it's often downright militaristic, with strict societal rules and customs that are adhered to. Ultimatley, it hearkens back to the concept that 'Chaos', as an theoretical entity, doesn't really exist, and 'Chaos' is simply a pattern of lawful regulations that no pattern can be made of, by us, leading us to believe it anarchic.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Malanthris May 02, 2009 20:20:07	I realize there was already a thread similar to this subject: I.E. Putting Barrison Del'armgo as a newly arrived second house when they've been second house for as long as I can remember lorewise (at least all my sources say they were second house). From the 2nd edition boxed set I saw Del'armgo as a rather militant group (though they did supposedly have 17 house mages accourding to that resource). The new edition claims they have a house force second to none in the city. The Menzoberranzan boxed set set house Xorlarrin's numbers at 21. The new setting guide says they have a greater than average number of house wizards. Now I am wondering if this is just sloppy work by those that worked on the 4th edition resource or was this purposefully done to show a paradigm shift over the course of a century. My take on Del'armgo was always that they were a rather militant group and concentrated on their strength of arms more than on priestly matters. My take on Xorlarrin was that they were the premier arcane power of the city. Their noble manse is called the Spelltower after all. Personally I don't really see 100 years drastically changing that given the length of an elven generation. I suppose if I ever set a campaign there it'd be up to me to really decide, but I am wondering what others think of this? Note: I'll admit this seems a rather mundane and minute detail nitpick but I've always had a soft spot for House Xorlarrin.
#2 Stigger May 03, 2009 5:44:47	I think it might be a clue that perhaps the 4e Realms might not be for you... ;) :D
#3 Zireael May 03, 2009 7:50:46	Is there anything more known on Menzo in 4e?
#4 lord_karsus May 07, 2009 20:24:00	Is there anything more known on Menzo in 4e? -Just whatever is in the FRCG. None of the novels that are taking place in 1,479 DR have touched on Menzoberranzan thus far.
#5 Grazel May 08, 2009 0:50:04	Also keep in mind that near the end of the 3.x time period there was the seige on Menzo and a lot of houses took heavy casualties during Lolth's silence. As the city was rebuilt and houses gained and lost power based on the actions during the seige and Lolth's silence that it's possible that certain houses drastically altered in their makeup and position. It's been a while since I read the last of the novels involving Lolth's silence but I seem to recall that at least one major house was destroyed and another lost a lot of power because of their ties to the invaders that was uncovered. I seem to recall both houses the OP talked about being referenced in the books but can't remember how much was talked about their involvement.
#6 Malanthris May 14, 2009 15:48:30	This was actually a poorly worded attempt at getting conversation going on some aspects of drow society I've been pondering lately. I'm not typically a huge fan of the drow in all honesty, though I do find it interesting and I did once have plots centering around the afore-mentioned house. I suppose it's already been said that the whole War of the Spider Queen happenings really tilted things in Menzoberranzan on their side and was likely a good catalyst for change in their society. That being said I've always felt that drow society was a little stagnant for how chaotic they are supposed to be. The more things change the more they stay the same and the race as a whole is rather predictable. One often wonders how they have managed to survive and thrive as a civilization. That being said I wouldn't think that Del'armgo would really forgo their more martial bent in order to persue more arcane matters. However, I thought of something that pokes holes in that opinion rather nicely. Drow are about survival. In a very short time frame from their perspective they've seen their clerical society turned on end (time of troubles and the Spider Queen's silence). It stands to reason that realizing that you can't always trust a fickle goddess (blasphemy!) it's wise to have the other major power of your society well represented in your forces (wizards). So that being said I suppose a paradigm shift isn't really all that much of a leap. I was just wondering what others thought. Off topic note: I've played about in the Realms for a very long time. I've always enjoyed it. I actually find the new setting to my liking, in a way. I dislike some of the changes and some of them don't make sense (but has real life always made sense to anyone?), but that's exactly what I like about it. Life doesn't always unfold the way you wish and the good guys had been winning and crushing evil for a long time. This freshened things up and raked the sand flat a little. I like that I don't like some of the changes. Also, the whole Helm dying thing made me laugh. ;)
#7 lord_karsus May 14, 2009 17:27:17	That being said I've always felt that drow society was a little stagnant for how chaotic they are supposed to be. The more things change the more they stay the same and the race as a whole is rather predictable. One often wonders how they have managed to survive and thrive as a civilization. -That's a theme that is mentioned often in R.A. Salvatore's novels that deal with Drow. For as chaotic and capricious a mistress Lolth is, and for as chaotic Drow society is, in general, it's often downright militaristic, with strict societal rules and customs that are adhered to. Ultimatley, it hearkens back to the concept that 'Chaos', as an theoretical entity, doesn't really exist, and 'Chaos' is simply a pattern of lawful regulations that no pattern can be made of, by us, leading us to believe it anarchic.