Anyway here's my review.
Any book that has come before the Fourth Edition books -sucks-. (for what I want out of a premade setting) And I will tell you why. Many of the reasons are already covered in various other posts, reviews, designer commentaries etc. Basically it comes down to this.
I like my pcs and heck my storylines to matter. I don't like the idea that there are so many Pcs turned npcs out there that they could handle the world by themselves and any obvious "major threat' can be handled by someone else.
Nor do I enjoy 18th level characters being considered -trivial- in the over all scheme of things (Drizzt I am looking right at you) these are beings who are the utmost paragon of heroes, what it means to be a Hero and yet they are unknown in vast swaths of the world? No. No. and No.
I don't enjoy worlds so overly detailed that you might as well say "Dragons be here" on maps.
I don't enjoy a setting that feels more like a novel than a place to run my story lines.
That was what we had before. Some people -like- the thought of what they and their characters do not mattering, some people even -like- having so much story line floating around that you really can not run your own without tripping on what is going on currently in the realms.
I hated, and still hate that philosophy. Always will. It goes against everything I stand for as a story teller, a dungeon master, and a player.
The new realms, is about putting it back into the Dm and player's hands and not have the world be an autonomous self running world. (Coincidentally this is also the design philosophy of Fourth Edition as well)
That being said, let's get on to the real meat of this review.
What is the goal of this book?
- To summarize this, the goal of this book is to give the player's everything they need to start a character within the Forgotten Realms, or rather to give them material not covered in the Player Handbook because it is world specific. (aka regional benefits races etc)
- Mark two, to make a book that is fairly universal and flexible as to where it can be used. (Ie not just for the realms but for any world, or homebrew at least)
- Mark three, to give player's and the Dm a rough idea as to how they can flesh out their world mechanically speaking.
- Mark Four, make playing in Faerun Fun for everyone and not just fluff mongers.
Does this book accomplish these?
In two words. Hell Yes. I've not actually felt this excited for forgotten realms. Ever. Regrettably this is the second to last book that they will release for the Realms but, it's a damned fine book. There is a lot of gold to be found within it's pages. They surmise each region adequately enough for a player to get started without having each and every little thing spelled out to the point that there is no wonder or to have any sense of discovery spoiled by the over detailing of a region.
This book also blows the older version of it out of the water (Player's guide to Faerun) in nearly every sense of the word.
- My only regrets with this book is that, the spell scarred was not a full on class. (It literally just needs a role and an at will folks.. really could you guys have just gone the extra mile here?) I feel they dropped the ball a little there, but I can rectify that.
- Also no Aasimar. Yet plenty of fluff for them... Another failing. Grant it I have my own Aasimar anyway, but seriously guys, you weren't hurting for page count limits with this book by any means. You could have put a lil more into it and at least have given us the Aasimar/Deva.
- This kind of thing happens a couple times in the book which keeps it from a five star rating in my book. What's there is excellent, but had they spent just a little more effort they could have truly had something astounding on their hot little hands.
A Four out of Five.
Regrettably this is the second to last book that they will release for the Realms but, it's a damned fine book.
It is? What's the last going to be and how do we know this? Do you mean it's the second-to-last book on the current production schedule? I have a hard time believing we won't see more FR books in the future.
It is? What's the last going to be and how do we know this? Do you mean it's the second-to-last book on the current production schedule? I have a hard time believing we won't see more FR books in the future.
Each setting's only getting three books.
All I'm addressing here is that some of your claims are not problems with the old Realms at all. The Realms were huge and there were plenty of places that the DM could fill in completely on his own. The NPCs were there but the PCs never needed to encounter them. Ever. Why all of the over-the-top stuff? All books before 4e sucked? Seriously? I wonder why people get riled up and continue fighting this edition war ...
Ok. Enough of that. I looked through the FRPG to see if there was anything cool enough to replace stuff my LFR character has. I didn't find anything especially compelling. The feats seem really aligned for the new FR stuff over anything else. And that's good, really. But it left me wanting. Until I saw the Paragon Paths. Mmmmm. That's some good stuff. There's a high level feat or two I may take eventually, too. The Swordmage seems made of fun and win and I may have to play one at some point. Very cool. So, overall, I'd give it a 3 out of 5. I may have rated it higher if some of the races they mention in the book got more than the fluff treatment. Races take up two pages now, right? So why not give us the Goliath if you're gonna talk about him? Oh well. Whettin' the whistle I guess.
At one point, having every tree-stump in Faerun named became a bit old.
Each setting's only getting three books.
I believe they stated unless it sells particularly well…
FR to me was supposed to be more of a Sword and Sorcery. Eberron to me feels like "Dark Swashbuckling Fantasy" At least that's how I've always viewed it. The concept of FR is intact. It still feels Sword and Sorcery. Maybe a little darker now thanks to the spellscarred/plague.
The old history is still there, they did not retcon it. (That would have been an abandonment to you guys not a story advancement)
Any book that has come before the Fourth Edition books -sucks-. (for what I want out of a premade setting)
Either you're talking about setting books in general - in which case you're wrong - or you're talking about FR books - in which case you're taking your personal preference as benchmark for what sucks and what doesn't.
To be fair though, most of the stuff in there is fairly easy to reflavor and assign to new gods, different fluff etc. It just feels a great deal easier to do for me this go around than it did before.
FR to me was supposed to be more of a Sword and Sorcery. Eberron to me feels like "Dark Swashbuckling Fantasy" At least that's how I've always viewed it. The concept of FR is intact. It still feels Sword and Sorcery. Maybe a little darker now thanks to the spellscarred/plague.
The old history is still there, they did not retcon it. (That would have been an abandonment to you guys not a story advancement)
Alright. It is just personal preference, after all. I get what you're saying here. Eberron was pretty different as far as world construct goes. So you (and many others) wanted a sort of "FR Lite". And you got it. Meh. It, IMO, isn't the Realms. But that's just an opinion.
My group is actually playing RPGA LFR right now. The DM and most of the group really dislike the new Realms. Not because the setting is bad - it's not - but because it's a generic PoL style deal tagged - erroneously - as the Forgotten Realms. If they would have called it something else, I'd have had no problem. But it's so gutted and changed so much that it really is completely new. I honestly would have been happier if the Realms had been left to die an honorable death. Instead, they were killed and reanimated into some vile beast that hardly bears any similarities to what they were. The Realms are a sad shell of what they used to be.
All that pathetic rambling aside ;), if you were never invested in the history of the Realms or are looking for a world to play in, 4e FR is a good place to look. As I've said before, the setting is well done and, so far, the books are pretty good. And that's why I still gave the FRPG 3 out of 5. I may not like the world being called FR, but I do see the quality in the stuff that's out. And I won't hide behind my prejudice to attack the stuff because of some sort of insane grudge.
I do have to argue with the assertion that all FR books before 4e were bad. They weren't. They were pages upon pages of awesome. The 2e Faiths and Pantheons alone was so good that we used it for fluffiness in 3e. The old boxed sets (Myth Drannor, hell, even the boxed CS) were fantastic. Even the 3e CS was good. It had so many bits of FR specific info (gods, domains, regions, etc) that it made you feel like you were in a specific world. The stuff now is meant to be generic. Which is why Cpt_Micha likes them. It's all portable. And that is good, in it's own way. For me, though, when I play in a CS I want that CS to be different. I want it to have those special, setting specific bits of info that define it. But again, that's just opinion talkin'. So I will agree to disagree and refrain from this sort of post in this thread going forward.
I like the fluff that they put in the FRPG, I don't have the setting guide.. -yet- (Probably will for christmas you never know)
I have to say though, the winningist part of this book though is by far the Paragon Paths. (with Dark Pact and Swordmage tied for second)
hehe, well I've always been more of a Dragonlance fan myself... (though.. you wanna talk about a setting that needs either a massive Retcon, or to be allowed to die tis Dragonlance.) To me at least it still feels alot like the FR I knew, and had at most on a good day a passive interest in.
I like the fluff that they put in the FRPG, I don't have the setting guide.. -yet- (Probably will for christmas you never know)
I have to say though, the winningist part of this book though is by far the Paragon Paths. (with Dark Pact and Swordmage tied for second)
I liked DL well enough. Until 5th Age or whatever that abomination was called. :D FR feels, to me, like it got beat down just as badly. But, we can certainly move on from this topic and I can certainly at least try to be constructive. ;)
I gotta agree. The PPs are awesome. Awesome. Miss that? Awesome! :D I looked at those afer I saw I didn't like any of the heroic tier feats better than the ones I had and immediately saw two that I'd like to try. Very cool abilities and powers. I can't wait to reach level eleven now. Though that's gonna be a while.
Swordmage seemed really cool, too. And now we have the multi-class feat for that. Sweet. I want to play one but I'm excited about my Wizzie and the potential the PPs have shown. So I'll probably stick with that. The DM is going to be a player next week and he's playing a SM. I will be paying close attention to see how it plays. If it's sufficiently cool, I may have to reconsider stickin' with my Wizzie. Good stuff.I'm also with you on the races thing. They mention a bunch of new races but don't bother with the two pages per that it would have taken to include them. And that's lame. Still, it's a good resource overall. And when you find yourself complaining about an exclusion instead of included content, you generally come out ahead. The FRPG certainly fits that bill.
Am I the only one that saw "Awesome factor" when looking at the Dark Path's Paragon and thinking "I think I should make a Fighter that get's this path" :D
If this is the calibre of material we can expect from future books (like Martial Power and what not) then I am going to be very excited.
I thought the new Channel Divinity feats in particular were very nicely done. (Which is the fourth best thing on my list) I'm going to be working on reflavoring them later on when I get the chance.
... it's a damned fine book.
I felt this book was a big let down actually. The player's guide surely should have some stuff for the players, not only background & setting for the GM, which filled the basically useless previous FR book.
Almost all of the feats are terrible, which is of particular annoyance as I absolutely cannot find enough feats to fill my characters slots... and currently my character is only Level 6!
Sad Face...
On a side note, in terms of the new races: Half-Orc, Deva, and Goliath, would have been too much to ask to get placeholder writeups for these not unlike what we got in the monster manual? Maybe we should start an internet campaign to get monster manual writeups for these. I'm going to start that campaign right now.
I felt this book was a big let down actually. The player's guide surely should have some stuff for the players, not only background & setting for the GM, which filled the basically useless previous FR book.
Almost all of the feats are terrible, which is of particular annoyance as I absolutely cannot find enough feats to fill my characters slots... and currently my character is only Level 6!
Sad Face...
I think you're thinking of the wrong book here. The Campaign Guide's it's own book. This one is the one for the players. ;) It gives the players enough fluff to get started with, and the crunch to go with it.
See I like the feats. I think they are pretty good supplements to what is in the PHB. I don't think you could actually build a character entirely from the ground up using just this book feat wise.
The 4E Realms haven't fixed everything. During 3.5E, the Forgotten Realms became more Epic Fantasy than Swords and Sorcery, and they haven't entirely reversed that. A lot of the major novel characters were incredibly powerful, and when given game stats they were level 15+ or often have Epic stats. Particularly when it came to crunch found in the 3.5E Forgotten Realms, it was a much higher powered game than Core D&D, and I think that was another thing that put non-4E D&D fans off. 4E hasn't completely reversed this. Iconic NPCs like Jarlaxle, Manshoon, and Szass Tam all have stats that put them in the epic tier. Szass Tam is probably the biggest threat in Faerun, so I don't begrudge him level 30, but Jarlaxle and Manshoon at the very least, by the definitions of 4E tiers, seem more like high Paragon characters than Epics in terms of storyline. But they were powerful as defined by 3.5E and they haven't retconned it.
On a side note, in terms of the new races: Half-Orc, Deva, and Goliath, would have been too much to ask to get placeholder writeups for these not unlike what we got in the monster manual? Maybe we should start an internet campaign to get monster manual writeups for these. I'm going to start that campaign right now.
Where are their levels? Did I miss a section out of this book? (I don't recall them being in the setting guide either but admittedly I had very little time with the setting guide)
Where are their levels? Did I miss a section out of this book? (I don't recall them being in the setting guide either but admittedly I had very little time with the setting guide)
They are in the monster manual section of the Campaign Guide. Jarlaxle is level 21, Manshoon is level 28, Szass Tam is level 30, and Fzoul who is now an exarch(demigod) of Bane is level 28.
Nor do I enjoy 18th level characters being considered -trivial- in the over all scheme of things (Drizzt I am looking right at you) these are beings who are the utmost paragon of heroes, what it means to be a Hero and yet they are unknown in vast swaths of the world? No. No. and No.
Well, the Realms doesn't have a modern media system, in any edition. That's one reason why characters that are famous amongst players are not necessarily widely known about within the setting.
That was what we had before. Some people -like- the thought of what they and their characters do not mattering, some people even -like- having so much story line floating around that you really can not run your own without tripping on what is going on currently in the realms.
Maybe so, but allow me to point out that your description does not fit everyone who enjoyed "the Old Realms".
Well, the Realms doesn't have a modern media system, in any edition. That's one reason why characters that are famous amongst players are not necessarily widely known about within the setting.
So then there are unknown gods in old FR too?
When I think of epic or near epic powered beings. I'm sorry they're names are whispered in the same breadth as gods. I don't think. "two regions away no one's ever heard of you".
And given the old portals that were around, news could travel very quickly indeed.
save the sword mage and a few paragon paths.
they left out tethyr.... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
oh and i do not share your sentiments on the old realms, i liked 3.x better to an extent. atleast they had info on tethyran characters from tethyr.
So then there are unknown gods in old FR too?
When I think of epic or near epic powered beings. I'm sorry they're names are whispered in the same breadth as gods. I don't think. "two regions away no one's ever heard of you".
And given the old portals that were around, news could travel very quickly indeed.
Maybe. I'm just pointing out that the FR isn't a place that has TV, the internet, reporters, etc. For what it's worth, the 4E FR is supposed to be a place where there are even fewer portals than there used to be, roads fallen into disuse (and therefore more isolated communties), and so forth.
Not trying to argue with you, I'm just giving you a possible explanation for what you pointed out.
I was planning on playing in 4e FR, but I thought there was no meat left to the setting. The rest of our group feels the same way too.
We figured if you have to make everything up yourself, there really was no point in using FR at all.
If you prefer making up your own material, why are you even buying the FR books? All you need is the three core books and you're good.
We figured if you have to make everything up yourself, there really was no point in using FR at all.
I always thought making stuff up was the whole point of a role playing game...
Gomez
I always thought making stuff up was the whole point of a role playing game...
Not in the context that The Orconian is speaking of. Interacting with a story, adventure or setting is role playing. Running one is Dungeon Mastering. Creating an entire fictional region or more in which to run an adventure is word building.
And what The Orconian is saying is that if you want to detail your own world anyway, why use a pre-built world in the first place?
I refuse to buy the new Realms books because I don't need them. I already have enough from previous editions that detail the Realms in greater detail than what is being offered now. The only possible use I would have for the new books would be to update to fourth edition, and I can do that just fine with the core books.
At this rate, we can look forward to the Forgotten Realms being relegated to Gazetteers and Dragon articles by 5th edition. If there even is a Dragon Magazine by then. Now I know how fans of the Greyhawk setting felt like.
Sorry for the tangent. I just can't talk about the Realms without a bit of sour grapes sneaking in.
I think that is one of the best points so far.