Also, I read in these here forums around a year ago, people talking about how Mystra's sentient being may very-well be locked in some type of wand/cudgel/club/staff? Anybody know anything about this?
Any help would be great. Thanks so much!
there is no novel on thesubject, what you read is nothing more than speculation
The sentient weapon is all fictitious then, eh? I love the idea, personally. (I am using that as my paragon main quest for my home game, but shhhh, don't tell my players.) lol
Thanks, dragon.
Cheers
However, it's written such that it's all sort of off-page, then interpreted through a sort of vision. It's not at all the "we saw it all happen" kind of thing in the old Gods-war Avatar novels of the Time of Troubles.
So honestly, although the current game system materials all say Mystra's dead, there's a gigantic amount of room to play with what "really" happened. At least for now, nothing more has been revealed. Greenwood's new series, starting with Elminster Must Die! could, possibly, shed more light on what happened.
You might check out Thomas M. Reid's Empyrean Odyssey. It contains some info on the whole divine cataclysm. Cheers
The Esteamed Mr. Reid also had posated somewhere here in the HATE threads of that scene that it was a vission of what happened and may not be the whole truth.... okay not those words exactly, but pretty much.
I'd do a search for a link, but I'd sooner have Fox at Twilight beat me up....
@jorunhast i really want to read the new elminster series but ive never read any of his stuff yet. think i could drop in on this series and not be too, like wayyy too far off?
Absolutely, I don't see why not. Jump right in! The new Elminster story starts in 4E, after all the changes have happened in the setting. Plus, although I haven't started this particular novel yet, Greenwood always (at least to me) writes in a LOT of detail that will get things arranged nicely for the reader. His writing style isn't what everyone is used to (lots of Realms-speak), but I've always loved his books. And I've heard good things about it, and that people love the epilogue in particular for some juicy details that are a bit of a cliffhanger for the next book.
I've always been surprised when I hear from people that didn't take it as a vision, lol. It seemed pretty clear to me in my reading of the books *shrugs* Oh well, though
That's funny... in Reid's book, I definitely knew it was a vision. They had it all set up so that what's-her-name (and the others, I won't name them so as not to spoil it) were visiting the visionary area of Savras to get some forehand knowledge. And then it turned out to be a big deal that, well... again, I won't spoil it for those who want to read it.
But I will say, I was very glad that the gods were distant the whole time, and not interacting 1:1 with mortals. At least not obviously. Better to keep the gods mysterious, powerful and somewhat ephemeral, even on their own planes.
Anyhow, thanks again!
Both are fun reads...
s****
I hope she stays dead.
+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
All hail Shar!
-1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Mystra has "died" a few times in the FR literature. Start with the Avatar trilogy for the first go around (2E I think), then follow it up with the Empyrean Odyssey trilogy for round two (3E I think).
Both are fun reads...
Lets not leave out Mystryl, and the Netheril Trilogy.
I think the wet T-Shirt award goes to Beshaba.
Only because they couldn't publish an appropriate picture for Sharess without needing to slap an adults only label on the book. ;)
I think the wet T-Shirt award goes to Beshaba.
Only because they couldn't publish an appropriate picture for Sharess without needing to slap an adults only label on the book. ;)
I would think that the goddess of nothingness and emptyness would be flat as a board.
Youre thinking of Shar, Sharess is the goddess of cats and sensuality. I guess shes hot, if youre into girls with 6 boobs! HAHAHAHAHA!
Actually Eilistraee should win, but she dont ever wear wet t-shirts, or anything for that matter.
>> Implying that someone with six boobs isn't hot
The only problem would be not having six arms to take full advantage of that.
Also, everyone knows Corellon would win a wet t-shirt contest.
>> Implying that someone with six boobs isn't hot
The only problem would be not having six arms to take full advantage of that.
Also, everyone knows Corellon would win a wet t-shirt contest.
HAHAHAHAHA! Good one Nai!
except for the Corellon bit, I could of done with out that mental picutre!
The only problem would be not having six arms to take full advantage of that.Also, everyone knows Corellon would win a wet t-shirt contest.
Are you suggesting that Corellon is fat now, and has man-boobs?
EEWWWW!!!
Mystra has "died" a few times in the FR literature. Start with the Avatar trilogy for the first go around (2E I think), then follow it up with the Empyrean Odyssey trilogy for round two (3E I think).
Both are fun reads...
Lets not leave out Mystryl, and the Netheril Trilogy.
I didn't include that trilogy because Karsus didn't actually kill Mystryl, just stole her power for a hot minute. However, that is also a great read and one of my favorites.
No, Corellon is as slim and beautiful as ever. Just, y'know, he/she's both male *and* female. And the female part's pretty smokin'.
Lady parts plus man parts at the same time isn't beautiful, it's gross. Sorry, no contest winner there.
"Oh, Mother Mystra, come back to us."
and I agree, bring back Mystra 2.0. Not even Alassra deserves this end!
No, Corellon is as slim and beautiful as ever. Just, y'know, he/she's both male *and* female. And the female part's pretty smokin'.
Lady parts plus man parts at the same time isn't beautiful, it's gross. Sorry, no contest winner there.
Depends on your tastes. Me, I'm also an elven god, so, well. ;)
All I can say on the subject can be summarised by a quote from one of her daughters:
"Oh, Mother Mystra, come back to us."
and I agree, bring back Mystra 2.0. Not even Alassra deserves this end!
Wouldn't this actually be Mystra v. 10?
Wouldn't this actually be Mystra v. 10?
Nope. The original Mystra (the one after Mystrl), who got herself smoten by Helm (in possibly the dumbest narrative moment I have ever seen), who empowered El and the Sisters and had a far more neutral take on the use of Magic in the Realms.
...who can hopefully be reborn from a fragment of her divine essence stored in someone (Alassra, I am almost certainly looking at you).
...and yes, I know you were probably (hopefully) being facetious.
...and yes, I know you were probably (hopefully) being facetious.
Yes, I was being sarcastic.
She has died and had some other mortal rise to her position more than should happen. She certainly comes off as rather... incompetent is the best word I can find.I remember reading something, a Dungeon writer's guidelines or submission guidelines in general for D&D, where the said they didn't want to see any more FR plot pitches involving blowing up the moon. They should have been as concerned about the turnover rate of Mystra as well. ;)
Midnight/mystra was incompentent......Mystra was not
That's pretty much the long and short of it...
... I wonder how many of the current crop of Mystra-haters hated her back when she actually was Mystra, rather than being the Midnight-Mystra.
Midnight-Mystra was initially written as a lovesick idiot who denied other gods magic based on her whimsy toward good rather than neutrality. Declared incompetent at a Gods' trial, she has since managed not only to get killed on her own plane, but has led her daughters and all the rest of her Chosen either to insanity or near-complete ruin.
Cyric has consistently been manipulated and helped in massive ways by other gods, starting with Mask-as-a-sword, then he went insane by his own hand... lost a major portion of his power to a dead soul, read his own book of lies by mistake, and ultimately was shown being manipulated by Shar into killing Midnight-Mystra which reulted in imprisonment.
Kelemvor retained Myrkul's Wall, despite his claims toward "fairness" in judging the dead (remember how he treated Adon?), and eventually was declared Incompetent at a Gods' trial by his fellow deities.
Of the three Kel seems to have matured into his new role the fastest, with Cyric still clearly showing his infantile state as a god well into the 15th century Realms despite his greater god status granted by his portfolio's. In my view Midnight/Mystra was changing at a very high pace before the Spellplague hit, and despite her clear favor for Good aligned clergy was learning how to deal with the more selfish or evil parts of the Art.
Who among the ascended gods of the ToT actually turned out to be competent?
Kelemvor retained Myrkul's Wall, despite his claims toward "fairness" in judging the dead (remember how he treated Adon?), and eventually was declared Incompetent at a Gods' trial by his fellow deities.
Well to fair to Kel, he did rejudge all those souls in the Wall, and any way he didnt actually ascend to godhood, until like 10 years after the Time of Troubles.
And you already know what I think of Cyric, so im not even gonna go there!
Midnight/mystra was incompentent......Mystra was not
Sure she was. She died. They all died. No one dies as much as Mystra. If Ao came to me and asked me to become the new god of Magic I would tell him to take a hike, or to just kill me now because if he forced me to be the god of magic I would be dead soon anyway.
(and much of the Mstra hate -- my personal dislike for her anyway -- isn't because of the ToT, it's all forms of her because of the Mary Sue-ness of her and her Chosen.)
Midnight/mystra was incompentent......Mystra was not
Sure she was. She died. They all died. No one dies as much as Mystra. If Ao came to me and asked me to become the new god of Magic I would tell him to take a hike, or to just kill me now because if he forced me to be the god of magic I would be dead soon anyway.
(and much of the Mstra hate -- my personal dislike for her anyway -- isn't because of the ToT, it's all forms of her because of the Mary Sue-ness of her and her Chosen.)
Blame the novel authors, they wrote her that way.
(and much of the Mstra hate -- my personal dislike for her anyway -- isn't because of the ToT, it's all forms of her because of the Mary Sue-ness of her and her Chosen.)
All forms? Exactly how much of Mystryl did we see?
The suggestion is that the Chosen didn't exist at all until the Original Mystra era, i.e. post-Netheril. I can certainly understand some annoyance at the way some of them were portrayed... but I can also point out that if we are looking for Mary Sue-ness then the Chosen aren't the only targets by a long shot.
Show
All hail Elminster Must Die and the hopeful return of the Original Mystra!
(I'd prefer the original over the stiff necked Midnight)
(I'd prefer the original over the stiff necked Midnight)
Show
You and me both, and I suspect there would be fewer complaints about her coming back than Midnight.
better mary sue than Bane's boy toy
QFT
...The suggestion is that the Chosen didn't exist at all until the Original Mystra era, i.e. post-Netheril. I can certainly understand some annoyance at the way some of them were portrayed... but I can also point out that if we are looking for Mary Sue-ness then the Chosen aren't the only targets by a long shot...
QFT - emphasis mine. Honestly, most of the protagonists in recent novels have a lot of Mary Sue blood in their veins.
Well the orginal Mystra was once mortal, and her essence/godlyness/whatever you want to call it was passed on to Midnight, also a mortal, so if Mystra does return, my guess it will be another mortal raised up to godhood, personally I think it will be the Srinshee. Not sure about Mystryl, I mean whos to say that the Mystryl that died during Karsus's Folly was the orginal one? Perhaps she was once mortal as well. But any way that seems to be the way of it in the Realms, mortals rising up to take the place of a god/goddess.
no the original Mystra was a creation of Mystryl.....and we don't know if she was mortal.
but the 3.x one from the TOT was mortal.... and she sux
Well the orginal Mystra was once mortal, and her essence/godlyness/whatever you want to call it was passed on to Midnight, also a mortal, so if Mystra does return, my guess it will be another mortal raised up to godhood, personally I think it will be the Srinshee. Not sure about Mystryl, I mean whos to say that the Mystryl that died during Karsus's Folly was the orginal one? Perhaps she was once mortal as well. But any way that seems to be the way of it in the Realms, mortals rising up to take the place of a god/goddess.
no the original Mystra was a creation of Mystryl.....and we don't know if she was mortal.
but the 3.x one from the TOT was mortal.... and she sux
Ed has stated that she was once mortal, and anything Ed says is considered canon, unless TSR/WotC puts out a source book that counters what Ed says, as far as I know there is no such sourcebook, So Eds comments on the subject should be taken as canon. There was a post on this on Candlekeep, I believe in the ask Ed thread, I'll see if I can russle it up.
I would look for the answer myself but even finding the YEAR it was from (without having seen it before) sounds like a tall order...
...unless you are using the Sage's "So Saith Ed" archives? (The PDFs are lovely)
I she comes back and a mortal becomes Mystra, it will be one of the Sisters. Hopefully the black sultry one. The Realms need more black goddesses. And no one will be able to say they hate her, because we will be able to say that they are racist if they do!
Quilé Mystra coming in a 5th edition soon!
Qilué was beheaded and her soul was destroyed by the Crescent Blade, while Eilistraee's avatar was possessing her (which is also why Eilistraee is also dead).
If anything, I suspect the Simbul might be the "one", assuming they would bring Mystra back. But I'm not so sure.
Personally, I'd prefer to see the original Mystryl re-incorporate on her own, slowly, without Midnight or any other mortal ascending.
That would be good. I was thinking she "arose" from nothingness in the moment of Mystryl's suicide.
I would look for the answer myself but even finding the YEAR it was from (without having seen it before) sounds like a tall order...
...unless you are using the Sage's "So Saith Ed" archives? (The PDFs are lovely)
Wasn't she created during the confrontation between Selune and Shar before Toril and the rest of creation was even a glimmer in anyones eye?
The original Mystryl that is
it is her successor the netherese Mystra we were talking about.
I think Silversword may be confused..... but then I don't go reading through Candlekeep's masssive long 167 + pagethreads.
and the search engine for it is pathetic
Qilué was beheaded and her soul was destroyed by the Crescent Blade, while Eilistraee's avatar was possessing her (which is also why Eilistraee is also dead).
Yeah, about that. Cavatina got beheaded by it too. We see her on the Fugue Plane getting dragged off to Arvandor at the end of the book.
That's a rather big hole, there. Large enough to drive, if not a truck, then at least a certain silver-haired 9' tall goddess through.
Also Selvetarm. Can you say 'corrupted artifact'? I knew you could. What do corrupted artifacts tend to do? Not work quite like they're supposed to.
So:
Vhaeraun is faking it. (Off-screen death and an alleged 'corpse' shown to us by *Lolth* that doesn't behave like gods' corpses are supposed to? Please.)
Selvetarm is too.
So's Eilistraee.
Orcus came back from getting his name erased, Kiaransalee can too.
Clearly, nobody actually died during Lady Penitent.
Yeah, about that. Cavatina got beheaded by it too. We see her on the Fugue Plane getting dragged off to Arvandor at the end of the book.That's a rather big hole, there. Large enough to drive, if not a truck, then at least a certain silver-haired 9' tall goddess through.
Also Selvetarm. Can you say 'corrupted artifact'? I knew you could. What do corrupted artifacts tend to do? Not work quite like they're supposed to.
So:
Vhaeraun is faking it. (Off-screen death and an alleged 'corpse' shown to us by *Lolth* that doesn't behave like gods' corpses are supposed to? Please.)
Selvetarm is too.
So's Eilistraee.
Orcus came back from getting his name erased, Kiaransalee can too.Clearly, nobody actually died during Lady Penitent.
Doubtful that any deity still "alive" would hide to such an extent that all their former worshippers believe that they are dead.
But I will agree that there was some room for interpretation of exactly what happened in the final pages of the Lady Penitent series. Probably not nearly as much as what you're suggesting, however.
I could buy the idea that Eilistraee survived as a fey spirit, giving up her status as a deity. Her death, or at least her stepping down from power, is what theoretically removed Wendonai's taint from the drow.
But Vhaeraun and Selvetarm surviving? Can't see that happening.
That would be good. I was thinking she "arose" from nothingness in the moment of Mystryl's suicide.
I would look for the answer myself but even finding the YEAR it was from (without having seen it before) sounds like a tall order...
...unless you are using the Sage's "So Saith Ed" archives? (The PDFs are lovely)
Yes, ive been going through "SoSaith Ed" archives and copying things down from those that strike my interest, that way its not nearly as many pages to deal with, still got somewhere around 219 pages of notes here, and im not even half way through the archive yet! But any way, looking through my notes I found it! Of course im not sure what the orginal question was, or when it was posted, Its on page 193 of my notes so im guessin its around part 10 of the "So Saith Ed" archives, for any one who wants to look it up themselves, But any way, with out further ado, here is what I was talking about, From Ed's own words:
"In the case of Mystryl, she sacrificed herself, not foreseeing that she'd be reborn. She had no Chosen or preselected mortal vessel, and did not know or intend that she'd "live on." She simply did what she believed she had to do, to end a threat to the world she loved.
However, the circumstances of her passing prevented other deities from snaring her divine power, and largely prevented its dispersal, and it "fell like a dying star" to earth (or so the priests of Mystra say) to at random strike and "go into" a mindless, drooling mortal woman and infuse her with Mystryl's divinity, so that she became Mystra. (Of course, clergy of Mystra speak of the woman being present and selected as "divine fate" and not random at all, but this is one of the Holy Mysteries of the Lady of Mysteries that only high-ranking clergy are allowed to discuss in detail; lay worshippers and non-believers won't get much more out of a priest of Mystra than this: "When Mystryl made the ultimate and most holy sacrifice that defended Toril itself, that which was best of her fell to earth, and struck a mortal woman, and went into her, and Mystryl was reborn as Mystra, as she was fated to do, that we may all have magic that serves us and not the howling chaos of wild magic spellstorms."
We don't know anything about the mortal woman who became Mystra other than these things: she was young, she was "mindless" (for reasons unknown; it may have been a birth defect or a later affliction), she was a poor rural unknown somewhere in the northern, western Heartlands being cared for by kin, and she was changed in looks and stature by Mystryl's "going in" to her. I'd say more, but NDAs forbid."
So theres some definite unreliable narration going on there, or so the priests of Mystra say, but I think its pretty clear that Ed sees her as once being mortal.
One of the novels does contradict part of what Ed has stated here, IN one of the Netheril Trilogy books, I cant remember now if it was the 2nd one or the 3rd one, but it has Mystra in it before she took over as goddess of magic and her and Mystryl have an exchange that makes it pretty clear that both of them realize what is about to happen, of course theres a simple explanation for that, Time Travel! Mystryl was the goddess of Chronomancy after all, and Time Travel does feature pretty predominantly in those books, thats how the heroes of the story end up meeting up with Karsus.
I think Silversword may be confused.....
Im always confused when talking to you, HAHA!
We don't know anything about the mortal woman who became Mystra other than these things: she was young, she was "mindless" (for reasons unknown; it may have been a birth defect or a later affliction), she was a poor rural unknown somewhere in the northern, western Heartlands being cared for by kin, and she was changed in looks and stature by Mystryl's "going in" to her. I'd say more, but NDAs forbid."
Thanks for this, Silversword. I had never seen it before!
One thing strikes me as interesting, that it was within a "mindless" woman that the essence of Mystryl took up residence. It would seem to suggest that there was no pre-existing personality, no alignment, no personal leanings that would conflict with the nature of the goddess it inherited.
Maybe this was the problem with Midnight. Having already grown to full stature in mind and body, the blending of Mystra's essence with her own fundamentally changed the nature of the Lady of Mysteries.
Magic itself, much as the original Mystra (Mystra, not Mystryl) was, is neutral and favours no one over another. It is only when a pre-existing personality is mixed with it that problems occur.
Mystra was, through her fusion with an effectively empty representative of humanity, imbued with the capacity for human emotions (her love for Elminster seems to have been real enough and was certainly strong enough) without the baggage of having already formed prejudices. The perfect vessel, effectively.
Now I wish, more than ever, that they would bring this Mystra back.
Not sure about Mystryl, I mean whos to say that the Mystryl that died during Karsus's Folly was the orginal one? Perhaps she was once mortal as well.
Seems like no one caught the slip (a sign of this place's diminishing population of old hardcores). Anyway, she's almost definitely the original. Just check the Netheril source book.
Not sure about Mystryl, I mean whos to say that the Mystryl that died during Karsus's Folly was the orginal one? Perhaps she was once mortal as well.
Seems like no one caught the slip (a sign of this place's diminishing population of old hardcores). Anyway, she's almost definitely the original. Just check the Netheril source book.
Yeah, I notice how you say "almost definitely" Ha!
Not sure about Mystryl, I mean whos to say that the Mystryl that died during Karsus's Folly was the orginal one? Perhaps she was once mortal as well.
Seems like no one caught the slip (a sign of this place's diminishing population of old hardcores). Anyway, she's almost definitely the original. Just check the Netheril source book.
Yeah, I notice how you say "almost definitely" Ha!
Well, as far as mortals/we know (i.e. according to the canon we have), the Netherese Mystryl was the original Mystryl. She then *did* perish in Karsus's Folly and reincarnated herself as Mystra.
Who's to know, however, that Ed didn't originally plan on the Netherese Mystryl having been a second version of Mystryl, and it just hasn't been revealed yet for some reason?
Cheers
P.S. Many apologies for offering the canon answer but being a cryptic villain about it. It's the Sharran in me. [:D]
Well, as far as mortals/we know (i.e. according to the canon we have), the Netherese Mystryl was the original Mystryl. She then *did* perish in Karsus's Folly and reincarnated herself as Mystra. Who's to know, however, that Ed didn't originally plan on the Netherese Mystryl having been a second version of Mystryl, and it just hasn't been revealed yet for some reason? Cheers P.S. Many apologies for offering the canon answer but being a cryptic villain about it. It's the Sharran in me. [:D]
Another thing to consider, if we are talking about the era of 4E, how common would knowledge of Mystra (in any incarnation) actually be? Seems like 100 years after Mystra's death, only the very long-lived or specialist sages would know details like this about Mystra/Mystryl. 100+ years is a long time, and "old information" tends to diminish greatly as far as any group's cultural knowledge. And detailed information about dead gods, that's only really useful to sages and students of old lore.
Personally, I think quite a lot of common people would say, "Mystra who?" these days, maybe followed by a "oh wait, wasn't she a goddess that died or something?" unless they've spent some time researching the Spellplague or happened to be a still-living remnant from the prior era themselves.
In one of the games that I'm in, which is ostensibly set in 1479, everyone seems to know all about Mystra and the Spellplague. I figure that's a product of it being a new *big-thing* at the table (so it's sort of meta-knowledge), but I find myself constantly questioning whether people would know anything about said goddess.
As this is a bunch of stuff about my game that might otherwise clutter the thread, I think I'll post it on my blog.
Cheers
- President McKinley was assassinated 1901
- Henry Ford created Ford Motor Company 1903
- Oklahoma becomes 47th state 1907
- the Model T car is presented by ford motors 1908
- the NAACP was founded 1909(national association for the advancement of colored people)
- Woodrow Wilson is elected 1912
- Titanic sinks 1912
- WW1 begins 1914
- Panama Canal opens 1914
- 19th amendment was ratified guaranteeing that women can vote 1920
Now, most of us here have huge benefits in terms of potentially knowing about historical events. We've been to school, many of us have attended college, and we have the advantage of immediate information retrieval available to us through the internet if we want to study anything. We are quite literally living in the Information Age.
But of the list above, my personal "oh yeah" moments were the Titanic (and I wouldn't have been able to say what year it sank) and World War 1 (of which I remember only a few key battles and such). And WWI had a gigantic impact for the entire world in almost every way: economics, population, inventions, technology, family dymanics, womens' history, everything really.
Now, consider that in the Realms most people (including adventurers) would not have attended any schools unless their families are very wealthy. If you're lucky enough to live in a big city at the pinnacle of cultural, technological, and magical innovation, then jobs in the Realms usually stem from very specific apprenticeships or training guilds, which focus very narrowly on the profession in question. Away from cities, you're likely to be a farmer, laborer, or some type of serf. Most Realmsians live in a medieval or renaissance age depending on their location and their wealth.
Considering knowledge of Mystra/Mystryl, we personally have the advantage of meta-knowledge and it's also very new to us as Realms consumers. That 100-year jump and the after-effects of the Spellplague are big in our minds because they're both so world-changing. But in a way, our meta-knowledge puts us in a difficult position because it's very hard to pretend that "all this stuff" was 100 years ago. But most Realmsians would put it in the back of their cultural consciousness, so to speak. At least, that's how I like to think of it.
It's a little different, obviously, as the legacy of the Spellplague still reaches into their lives in probably a more obvious way than WWI affects us: they see spellscarred people and hear stories of patches of spellplague. It's maybe more like a more recent war like WWII or Vietnam in that respect, where we can see the legacy of the war more clearly.
Plus, there are religious traditions associated with Mystra, though they would mostly have died out over the last hundred years without her. I can't think of a good real-world parallel for today, but it would probably be like knowing your great-grandparents followed a faith that is now out of fashion but still has some iconography around for you to see.
It should also be noted, however, that what they *remember* isn't necessarily accurate. The way the Spellplague went down varies depending on who's telling the story.
Cheers
Certain areas could differ strongly from the norm. Sites with physical reminders of Mystra such as her chapels, shrines and stone statues that have survived in recognisable shapes, could remind only the few interested locals that there used to be a "goddes of the weave". Adventurers who are specialised in religious tombrobbing are likely in the know about signs of such legends as well (but it would not be an easy history check).
I suspect professional tomb-robbers (i.e. adventurers) are also well aware that temples and holy sites dedicated to this mythical "goddess of the weave" ("weave? what weave?") are also pretty well warded, either by intact magic or by magic tainted by the spellplague, and know well enough to steer clear.
I was also going to add, springboarding off SB there, that the Realms went through a mini-dark ages in the wake of the Spellplague (what with the demise of all those mages, repositories of lore that they were), and it seems like they're still kind of recovering, being a little rougher around the edges than we're used to.
Seems like a good place for adventurers to me. [
]Cheers
E.D.B.--don't kill me for fantasasing about killing you. I would never really do it, but I was on pharmuecueticals at the time and Bejebuz tried to infiltrate me. Your kool. I love you and stuff. Just need to get exorcised or some such
. Maybe...sort of...yeah.
With respect to wizards and their apprenticeships / schooling, what would they know of Mystra and the Weave? Apart from a few tidbits of legends from the past, what would current mages teach their students about Mystra? Practically, she's dead, and instructors may focus entirely on current magical theory and immediate use.
Given that magic is now more ubiquitous (freely available with training?) in Faerun and not tied to the worship of any deity, would some mage schools teach that "in the past, Mystra's weave governed magic, but it was more a method of control" or even "Mystra's weave was a lie."
And given the fear of current spellplague regions, especially those that twist flesh and may kill or leave dangerous spellscars, is magic still viewed as the dangerous thing that it was right after Mystra's murder? Prior to her murder, magic was fairly widely used and appreciated. Now, it might be considered highly destructive and untrustworthy (from a cultural standpoint, not a practical one for those who are trained).
I can imagine all sorts of ways this might go. Historically, Mystra could be viewed as a jealous goddess even though she had her Chosen promote magical works. She might be viewed as a deity that prevented the full exploration of magical power, and that raw magic (although dangerous) has unlimited potential.
Consider warlocks, known to make pacts with demons and other dark powers. At least you know what you're getting there. But with a mage, all that spellscarry stuff and the dipping into raw magic might be looked at in the same way we'd view someone who played with dynamite or nitroglycerine. Someday, with no warning whatsoever, it might explode in your face and leave a gods-know-what kind of magical spellscar. People might distrust warlocks, but mages? Good gods, get me the heck away from him!
Anyway, you can say this is all sort of Mystra's plan--let the world bitch, then beg when consequences come.
Personally, I''m up for the latter.
Cheers
mystra always has a plan...... but really I still prefered the first mystra( not mystryl) much more fun to like.
Missed you too, JD. I'm glad to see you're (maybe?) clean and sober. Er, relatively.
Cheers
Eh,. Pay attention fool--I already told you I am off my pharma...though, they were a bit interesting--maybe.
Not reallly.
No.
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SF how you doing, my man? Porked a squirrel lately?
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Sweet Bejeebuz, Dookie, been a long time! Its still pretty slow over here, you know how it went downhill, but a determined few like me refuse to totally abandon this place. The boards are desperate for some action. I know you'll provide plenty.
You go boy. Inform me when you toss on the cheerleader outfit.
I don't wan't to watch.
and you, how are you doing?
Eh,. Pay attention fool--I already told you I am off my pharma...though, they were a bit interesting--maybe.
Not reallly.
No.
Same old JD.
Cheers
You know I was just thinking, man this thread has just gotten too serious, if only some one would change the subject to doin squirrel cheerleaders. Haha!
But back to the subject at hand, you all bring up a good point about player knowledge vs. character knowledge. This isnt really a problem in my current Realms game, most of the players are new to the Realms, so they have no idea who Mystra even is any way. I got 1 guy whos been into the Realms as long as I have, he plays a Wizard, so I think it would make sense for his character to know something about Mystra, reading all those old musty spellbooks and all. Theres another guy who knows the Realms from Drizzt novels. He wants desperatly to head up north so he can become a Rider of Nesme. I have to keep remininding him that his character doesnt even know where that is, and any way why would his character even want to? I just cant see a Drow Revenant Warden, who worships Silvanus, to be going ok im going north to fulfil my life long dream of becoming a Rider of Nesme. But he keeps trying to work that in some how, like his character is at the tavern trying to pick up information about Nesme, and I have to remind him, why would you be going out of your way to get information on a place youve never even heard of? Well I guess maybe his character might of heard of it, but in the Heartlands id imagine that most tales involve the Harpers or War Wizards of Cormyr, but noooo hes just got to be a Rider of Nesme. Yeah metagaming players can be a bitch.
But any way, back on the subject of Mystryl at one time possibly being mortal, I just want to point out that I never said that I thought she was, or that I think its a good idea, im just sayin, who knows really? I mean Mystryl was "born" a very long time ago, long before the rise of Netheril, alot of things could of happened in that time, Im sure she went through lots of different transformations in that time period. Shes ussually depicted as being a human goddess, but there werent any human spellcasters at that time, probably not even any humans! Perhaps she was orginally worshipped by the Sarrukh or some of the other Creator Races. Im sure they would of seen her as one of their own, and whose to say she wasnt? So when humans began gaining more dominace over the world, maybe she changed as well, becoming more human, maybe even merging with a human, I mean who knows right? This is all prehistory, anything could of happened!
Regrettably we dont have cheerleaders over here in Europe. You need to send me your collections of cheerleader outfits. :P
Visit Victorias Secret. Evidently, posting images here got more ridiculous as well.
Swordboy, did I miss something (probably--didn't read much of the thread) or did you get googly-moogly on me?
And the part about Mystryl at one time possibly being mortal, was more or less a response to any one who thought I was almost definitely wrong about that. It just seems like Mystra, and maybe all the gods need a mortal component or something. Maybe Mystryl was never mortal at all, but she was essentially "dead" until her essence merged with a mortal and Mystra was born, and then when Mystra "died" during the ToT, her essence was again merged with a mortal, this time Ariel Manx aka Midnight, I mean if her essence was still around why did she need a new mortal form or avatar or vessel or what ever you want to call it? Maybe Ao decreed it that way, that the goddess of magic must be part mortal or something so to better understand them, and to serve them?
My guess is that for Mystra to actually return shell need a new mortal host, IM also guessin that it will be the Srinshee, I believe she held more of Mystra's power than any of the other Chosen, more so than even Elminster, or the Seven Sisters.
So yeah, im goin all googly-moogly.
By the way, nice to see you around again JD, believe it or not ive actually missed you!
I don't agree--nor have seen anything pertaining to the fact that gods need a mortal aspect to exist. Gods existed before mortals were ever created. In the case of Mystryl/Mystra, it was more of a safety net thing (at least during the ToT). And I still believe The Chosen will serve that purpose again--with El' being the guy holding the power until he can properly release her essence and bring her back.
I don't recall so many mortals being escalated to divinity.
sorry im starting to ramble, and getting off topic here, so back to Mystra, and her return. Does the Realms really need a Mystra? And what would happen when she does come back? Does that mean the Weave will be back as well? Would that alter the fundamentals of magic use in the Realms once again?
Regardless, to bring a patron of magic back would involve an RSE--which won't be happening until sales are needed.
And what do you mean erroneously discussed? I mean as long as things are being discussed you know? How do you discuss something wrong any way?
for any real FR stuff.I'll have to look further into this El' must be whacked crap, 'cause this is causing some serious confusion now. Thanks, you lil' butt monkey.
Anyway, the erroneous discussions I speak of are just that--nobody knows what the hell is right or wrong and simply has an opinion on the subject. Therefore, it is an erroneous topic.
Anyway, the erroneous discussions I speak of are just that--nobody knows what the hell is right or wrong and simply has an opinion on the subject. Therefore, it is an erroneous topic.
Nope. Silversword has the right of it. It can't be erroneous by definition if nobody knows the right or wrong of it. It can be "speculative", it can even be wildly speculative or pointlessly speculative... but until an answer is known then any thread or discussion cannot be erroneous.
Anyway, the erroneous discussions I speak of are just that--nobody knows what the hell is right or wrong and simply has an opinion on the subject. Therefore, it is an erroneous topic.
Nope. Silversword has the right of it. It can't be erroneous by definition if nobody knows the right or wrong of it. It can be "speculative", it can even be wildly speculative or pointlessly speculative... but until an answer is known then any thread or discussion cannot be erroneous.
You know, those have got to be some of my favorite discussions 'round here, the ones where there is no definite answer and we're all just speculating, like I think its Elminster or I think its the Srinshee. I like the kind of topics that make you think outside the box, instead of just going by years and years of Realmslore.
She and Shar could collide again to make the divine essence of magic anew.
Hmmmm, you maybe on to something there! Ive always considered Mystryl/Mystra to be Selune and Shar's love child.
Nope. Silversword has the right of it. It can't be erroneous by definition if nobody knows the right or wrong of it. It can be "speculative", it can even be wildly speculative or pointlessly speculative... but until an answer is known then any thread or discussion cannot be erroneous.
Actually, I might call that an erroneous response, my man--because some might know. Especially, if Wizards have a backup plan if this silly experiment fails. And I fully believe that they have one in mind.
So I would say argue that my point is erroneous, but not that my point about erroneous sh*t being erroneous is not erroneous... and sh*t...?