I have some questions on how i can make him not exactly an outcast as i hope to eventully become a High mage with him if i can
I am useing Races of the Wild to make his name but i was wondering if the Elvish presented in there is the same in FR.
We start at 6th level so as a back story I have him traveling to many elven ppl like evereska the high forest and the desert elves.
My main concern is how can i work necromancy with and elves but my char is good but will prob be netrual good
the language from RoW is different, but why should elves have only one language
My main concern is how can i work necromancy with and elves but my char is good but will prob be netrual good
Animating the dead, stealing souls and the like will not be accepted, but as a NG character chances are your character won't be too keen on them himself. However, there is more to necromancy than that - don't forget that some of the special anti-undead spells tend to be necromantic ones as well. Also, I thought about making necromantic spells that work similarly to divinations - necromancy was supposed to be about speaking to the dead, and the dead know many things. If your DM is ok, you can research necromantic spells that deal with pretty much anything involving souls, the dead, or death.
The 'core' Elven in RotW is just that - it IS Elven - the language of the Sylvan (Green) Elves that is rarely spoken on Toril anymore except by the remotest tribes.
That allows both, works with the canon, and avoids any past or future inconsistencies.
As for Elves and Necromancy - Kno is quite correct. The only Elves that produce Necromancers on a regular basis are the drow (CBoN, pg.34). However, all alignments are possible for PCs and special NPCs, so there's no real reason you couldn't have one (aside from being shunned by those of your own race).
Learning High-Magic after praticing Necromancy?
God luck with that... unless you can find a Drow who doesn't mind teaching a surface Elf.
In one of my friends 3.5e campaign I am planning on makeing a wizard who mainly uses necromatic spells.
I have some questions on how i can make him not exactly an outcast as i hope to eventully become a High mage with him if i can
...
We start at 6th level so as a back story I have him traveling to many elven ppl like evereska the high forest and the desert elves.
My main concern is how can i work necromancy with and elves but my char is good but will prob be netrual good
-Ultimatley, you can do whatever you want, but Elves (excluding Drow, who, for this discussion are not Elves, for all intents and purposes) and Necromancy don't mix. The closest the Elves practice would be "white necromancy", the most benign form of necromancy, but even then many are still distrustful of those who practice it. Elves are very sensitive about spirits, souls, freedom, and bondage, and the lines begin to blur when necromancy is practiced. An Elf who practices Necromancy is enslaving the body or spirit of another being, an act that Elves themselves would never want to happen to themselves, and thus, as a result, abhor.
-If there's any bit of distrust between a community and an Elf in particular, there is no chance that that magician can become a High Mage. The Circle that High Magi gather into is built upon complete and utter trust; if there is even a sliver of doubt and mistrust in the back of any of their minds about another, things will not work properly. This is why High Magi watch and observe the individuals they choose to "ordain" High Magi. Only the "rightest" candidates make it.
I am useing Races of the Wild to make his name but i was wondering if the Elvish presented in there is the same in FR.
-No, the Elven language in that book isn't Faerûnian Elven. For a list of Faerûnian Elven names, as well as the Faerûnian Elven Dictionary, check out Elves of Faerûn.
The spell that i have found is from the WoW rpg witch i think makes more sence as it needs a body to cast and thats it.
Now there is a tribe of wild elves i think that does use necromancy to help protect themselves which helped me shape my idea and also i only play as elves or half-elves.
for the language thing it has the elven phrasebook in there and i found a surname that would come out to death brother so i was wondering is that still posible it would be Maiinar as his last name
You could reflavour the whole thing as somebody who draws magic from the honoured ancestors and departed spirits, being very respectful to them as you borrow their power. The character would be less a necromancer and more of a funeral worker, some who takes very good care of the dead. Raising the dead would be less a case of using them as your servants, but giving the deceased a brief chance to live again, clean up their affairs, and take vengeance on those who slew their enemies.
Elves aren't entirely averse to undeath either. The baelnorn is a variant on the lich, and holds a high place in their society.
Elves aren't entirely averse to undeath either. The baelnorn is a variant on the lich, and holds a high place in their society.
-Baelnorn aren't exactly Liches. Though they have the Undead subtype in the D&D stats, and are labeled as being a Lich in Monsters of Faerûn, Baelnorn aren't really Undead, in the traditional sense. Undead creatures have Negative Energy sustaining them (usually- the Mummy Lord for whatever reason has/had Positive Energy). Baelnorn don't have Negative Energy (or Positive Energy) sustaining them. More accurately, they just have plain ol' 'magic' sustaining their continued existences.
And arnt Baelrons a combination of arcane and divine magic as sehine moonbow blesses them? wouldnt that make them positive energy related as well kinda like those undead elves from eberon
A special sect of undeadhunters, the Mhoarnathil, are guided by the clergy of Sehanine Moonbow to study the mystery of necromantic magic to help understand and combat undead enemies of the Seldarine. They would make use of disrupt undead, ray of enfeeblement, halt undead, control undead and other necromantic spells that can be usefull for fighting undead.
I even pose the theory that the study of white necromancy of Sehanines clergy has also led to the creation of the bealnorn rituals. The Bealnorns might be a result of the study of the clone spell combined with divine necromancy of sustainable repeated healing spells. In my campaign I have made bealnorn positive energy infused eternal guardians that actually have a dead body but its mind is kept intact with regeneration by saturation with repeated healing spells.
A special sect of undeadhunters, the Mhoarnathil, are guided by the clergy of Sehanine Moonbow to study the mystery of necromantic magic to help understand and combat undead enemies of the Seldarine. They would make use of disrupt undead, ray of enfeeblement, halt undead, control undead and other necromantic spells that can be usefull for fighting undead.
-Mhaornathil (Undead Slayer, CBoE) don't get spellcasting.
I can see the sect making use of arcane undead hunters who would be called mhaornathil aswell. My own character is planning on multiclassing to wizard for just that.
The entry in 2nd ed (Dieties and Demigods I believe) on Sehanine mentions the clergy members multiclass as wizards; mainly diviners and illusionists but they make use of necromancy aswell.
Didn't they get anti-undead spells as granted powers from Sehanine? Your own PrC from Elves of Fearun does that at least.
-The kit from CBoE, they don't get spellcasting of any kind. My own PrC, they got a bunch of Su powers, but again, no spellcasting.
Seriously though... call them a specialist on the undead and ignore the whole necromancy label of things. You can happily be a necromancer without actually being a necromancer... extensive study of undead, those who create them, spells that call upon and augment them, etcetera and so forth, when it comes down to it, its simply knowledge, and if its knowledge turned against the undead and necromancers, I doubt many elves are going to blink much.
I'd recommend something like Improved Counterspell though to round out the concept a bit better, and to justify the anti-necromancy approach a bit more. If you have it, Libris Mortis has some fairly useful feats for undead hunters as well, along with a few useful spells to use against them, though I don't recall the PrC's being particularly impressive.
And aren't Baelrons a combination of arcane and divine magic as sehine moonbow blesses them? wouldnt that make them positive energy related as well kinda like those undead elves from eberon
Yes.
If they were to 're-imagine' the Baelnorns using ALL the 3e rules, then technically Baelnorn should be Undying, not Undead.
Undying use positive energy (as do mummies), whereas Liches use negative energy. Liches were originally the divine version of Mummies (both are Ancient Dead), but then 2e and all it's options and settings screwed the pooch on that one.
Ergo, Liches were arcane and powered by Negative energy, and Mummies were divine and powered by positive energy. The weird thing about that is you could have a good Lich , and you could have an Evil Mummy (because before 3e came around, Negative and Positive energy were not attached to alignments).
Hopefully they went back to the older model in 4e - it made more sense. 'Undead' should be a type for anything empowered by negative energy, and 'Undying' by anything empowerd by radiant energy - at least thats the way I would have done it in 4e.
I really should read through Open Grave. :embarrass
The Completre Book of Necromancers (2e) only lists humanoids, Dragons, and DROW as variants to the human-only rule (from 2e) regarding necromancers. Unfortunately, 3e's 'free-for-all' rules (where everyone can be anything) messes-up already established 'sacred cows', so I suppose that should be considered a rule of thumb, and not set in stone (as of 3e).
So in 3e, anyone can practice necromancy if they can find a teacher, but I really doubt you'd be welcome into 'polite company' after becoming a necromancer (if you follow the CBoN, there are some VERY interesting rules regarding 'taint').
Necromancy was also widely 'excepted' in the fallen Kingdoms of Nog and Kadar (in Zakhara), so Al-Qadim Elves may have practitioners, without attracting any of the social stigma an Elf would get in the north.
Postive/negative, arcane/divine - it's a technicality, really. Such characters usually wind up looking like corpses either way.
-Undead and Fiends are the peanut butter and jelly of evil.
Well then who would be the spam?
:P
A Sorceror, perhaps....
I think you mean 'Deathless', not Undying. Deathless is the positive energy undead variant from Book Of Exalted Deeds and the Eberron setting.
My lack of true familiarity with the Eberron setting shines through. :embarrass
I stand corrected.
I think elven necromancers are supported and trained by Sehanines church, but watched carefully if they might not taint themselves. Likely only revealing the more powerful spells when understanding for them is found in the prospective white necromancer. If an elf seeks to learn the darker arts of necromancy he is likely to only find it in remote human lands. An elf fallen so far is want to learn all he can from a human necromancer, only to steal his spellbook and knowledge for his own use later on (preferably before his master turns into a lich to outlive even the elf). For teachers are temporary, their secrets must live on and in their spells they do.
The legacy of ancient shaman who were wise in dealing with shadows of night and the walking dead might have lingered in the tales and songs of the more wilder green elves too. Can necromancy be pegged with a certain age? It's legacy must be far older than Toril.
Perhaps the green elves found necromantic spells on Fearun when they first escaped from the Feywild. Ilythiiri seemed to embrace it more thoroughly, seeing the potential use of such spells in warfare. If so the green elves who lived close with the more warminded Ilythiiri might have had a few archnecromancers who fought on the side of the Seldarine in the 4th and 5th Crown Wars. There might be an elven family who takes pride in their ancestors and who view necromancy as one of the weapons in their arsenal.
There was just too many opportunities for PCs to become 'tainted' and become Black Necromancers. There just wasn't enough power in the 'white stuff' to make it worth the bother.
Necromancers are just too unbalancing for PCs - having the ability to create your own slave-army ruins the game for the other players (and the CBoN says just that).
Anyhow, its intersting to note that the book is FR canon, even though it doesn't sport the logo - the entie campaign sub-setting takes place in NE Zakhara.
Well then who would be the spam?
:P
-Drow, Zhents, and Shades.
My charecter isnt in this for power just to protect people by useing some of evils weapons against them.
I know lots of elves veiw resurection with distaste and communing with spirits of dead elves but i would be useing other specise that i have defeted to help with my goals i guess
One reason I know elves dont veiw necromancy to badly is the respect for there ancestors. Someone who communicates with them and used the powers they grant respectavly to benifit the elven nation will be fine. He might summon up a zombie temperaily to help slay a foe that was threating an elven village and then release the body back to slumber. I see it as more haveing the spirits help defend their living decendants. Look at the vale of the lost voices the ancestors defended their decendents in the Last mythral series
They created necromancy and gave it to the humans, just so they could wipe those humans out years later, and turn to the other demi-humans and say "they were creating undead!"*
The length of their plots and size of their lifespans is only exceeded by their insidious evil.
* I've noticed of-late that everything concerning Elves always has strings attached. Since they can point to a time when they considered everthing their's (after slaughtering the rightful dragon and giantish owners, of course), they think they have a legal claim to everything that exists on Toril.
Thats what's so frightening about them - they think they are justified when they slaughter a village of humans because it is "too close to their lands". When Orcs do the same thing (because humans are building too close to their mountain-lairs), the Elves are the first to cry "Monsters!"
Whats with the double-standard?
As Ed Greenwood once said, "Elves ARE monsters!"
The whole time the innocent-looking, 'kindly' Elf is standing in front of you asking about your intentions, those with better perceptions realize that there are about 100 bows trained on them.
A less-numerous yet highly mobile foe without a set location that uses hit & run tactics. Sounds like terrorists to me.
Goose-stepping is for a foe that meets you head on... not for one who shoots an arrow in your back for disrespecting a tree.
In one of my friends 3.5e campaign I am planning on makeing a wizard who mainly uses necromatic spells.
I have some questions on how i can make him not exactly an outcast as i hope to eventully become a High mage with him if i can
I am useing Races of the Wild to make his name but i was wondering if the Elvish presented in there is the same in FR.
We start at 6th level so as a back story I have him traveling to many elven ppl like evereska the high forest and the desert elves.
My main concern is how can i work necromancy with and elves but my char is good but will prob be netrual good
Don't cast spells with the Evil descriptor. That's all. IIRC, there are a grand total of six such spells in the PHB, which leaves you lots of spells to cast. Necromancy is not inherently evil, and anybody with half a brain in the world will realize this; only some aspects of it, like creating undead, are.