Need help [wizards opinion would be nice]

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

esteleath

Apr 09, 2009 17:47:42
I have a problem with character authorization on official Polish Neverwinter Nights 2 Server and it can be solved with credible wizards opinion or real books experts. I have few questions that needs to be answered.

Do gods have time for all of their followers and servants? Do gods fight for the souls of their followers and servants when they're endangered by baatezu or Tanar'ri for example? If so how does it look? Are Red mages of Thay capable of making artificial planetouched races for example artificial earth genasi?
#2

Jaeger_the_Gnome

Apr 09, 2009 18:17:12
From what I understand a God is alot like a CEO of a company. They might get a little sad if one of their employees (followers) falls from grace and leaves for another company (religion, cult, alignment).
However if an employee is forced to go to another company, AND the employee is of enough importance to the company (see high level with alot of influence) a God might send what amounts to a lawyer (outsider) to try to bargain the employee back, or just inspire (bribe) a nearby seer (plot device) to send in a group of black ops (adventurers) to retrieve said employee with plausible deniability.

As for the planetouched..umm maybe a really high level transmuter or conjurer could with a large amount of mages for the circle magic, but it raises the question. Why would they want to?
#3

esteleath

Apr 09, 2009 18:25:47
1) Lets think of plot reasons, not levels. Is it acceptable to send a lawyer [in a case of baatezu] or preparing black ops [when tanar'ri] when a servant [not a common follower] have suffered reallly unbearable loss of his family to a lets say - tanar'ri or baatezu to fight?

2) how high level of mage? Is it possible for lets say 10 students [level 1-5] and 1 mage scholar [level 10-15] ? I'd like to know what is enough, not more than enough...
The asnwer is to further study the art of the weave. The write books, prepare rituals or write new spells, develop new abilities [from experimenting with genasi there is a probability of finding out how to strenghten the spells of earth nature and so on].
#4

Jaeger_the_Gnome

Apr 09, 2009 18:56:29
1)So if i understand this right. A cleric was all pious and then he lost faith when his family got stomped into the dirty by evil forces and did something bad and lost his soul to the very people who he vowed to destroy? Then I'm pretty sure the god would just be like "mreh..wheres my coffee crafted by that epic level barista?"

If i'm mistaken please let me know.

2) http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/originOfSpeciesAchaierai.htm]Booya! My case.
#5

esteleath

Apr 09, 2009 19:19:13
To be exact parents of a character signed pact with baatezu for the souls of the children one of the children became paladin and so broke the contract by this and thus his soul became Helms. So Helm wanted to fight for the souls of the other children, while baatezu lost his ability to retrieve souls he just killed them all except the one paladin and turned most adult sister into half-fiend. I wanted to Helm and baatezu bargain with each other as lawyers directing the adventures of Helmite and half-fiend to decide which one will win and gather the souls for which side. I changed it to tanar'ri who just killed the family cause they wanted it that way and sister became half-fiend and because they said according to fiendish codex II pact can be only for soul of the one pacting I had to remove the pact. That's one problem.

Another problem is Earth Genasi artificially created as a red mage servant.

And their reasoning against me:
Paladin case:
1. Gods don't have time for all of their worshippers.
2. AO don't care for worshippers of any faith.
3. Pact is all wrong cause baatezu is not sure about gaining benefits from it.
4. According to Fiendish Codex II. Subject of pact is turned automatically into Lawful evil while he signs a pact. Subject is usually killed right after the pact by baatezu for baatezu to get subjects soul. According to some kind of ancient pact with gods pact subject with alignment of lawful evil goes straight to baator.

My reasoning against them:
1. Gods have time and their servants to make it up for them so they can care for all of the worshippers and servants. Servants especially.
2. AO cares for worshippers cause he punished gods with time of troubles when gods didn't cared for their worshippers.
3. Pact rules can be bargained trough 'lawyers' of Helm and Baatezu and I think the fight would be like that - father goes to hell, others are on the line of endanger, paladin is weaker than his half-demon sister so its unfair fight, Helm doesn't changes paladin into half-celestial or whatever to have a reason for getting his soul back if he fails.
4. According to Fiendish Codex I don't really care because its guidelines to Faerun only.

My reasons weren't good enough.

Genasi:
Their reasons - character background totally wrong. Red mages don't want to do it because of large resource cost [and before that they told me that its impossible to create genasi with their abilities because its only for constructs or undead and they told me of two schools transmutation and conjuration if I remember correctly.]

Can You win this case? That's why I need help of wizards. They're better lawyers ;D
#6

lord_karsus

Apr 09, 2009 21:00:17
Do gods have time for all of their followers and servants?

-This varies from deity to deity, and what you consider "time".

Do gods fight for the souls of their followers and servants when they're endangered by baatezu or Tanar'ri for example?

-In general, yes, they have.

If so how does it look?

-Like a battle between deities and extraplanar evils? In most cases, deities dispatch their servitors to do things for them.

Are Red mages of Thay capable of making artificial planetouched races for example artificial earth genasi?

-In theory, anyone who is proficient is capable of binding an extraplanar creating and forcing it to mate with something else.
#7

Jaeger_the_Gnome

Apr 10, 2009 0:22:47
okay. for the genasi. I'm sorry but it'd have to be a epic level wizard to try and pop one out I'd think. Even then I have to agree that the resources would be a little much just to make one..unless the wizard had some badass enchantments and managed to get a human and earth elemental to get it on without someone getting crushed while they were dealing the the mountain ha- NO bad Jaeger bad! No typing things that will make you cringe!!

Now then..as for your paladin problem. Yer in a dragons lair without a prayer.

If this is a purely lawful transaction then the pact would have made you lawful evil from as soon as you could, or the devils would have done their best to make sure you didn't repent and become good. You're a paladin now so it can be assumed you managed to slip away from the contract so you're free. Only now you are going to have devils trying to tempt you to evil. The sibling however being dead and one a half-fiend are toast. The gods hands are tied and the half-fiend if it even wants to change is going to have to work extra hard for the brownie points.

WAIT WAIT WAIT!!! There is a way to get them out of this. If you're lawyers can somehow prove that the devil did not perform his end of the pact then the pact is immediately null and void. Uhh..good luck >.>
#8

esteleath

Apr 10, 2009 4:52:42
Karsus can You just try to find a way to minimalise resources needed for that?

Jaeger You misinterpreted. Father of my paladin made pact. My paladin is free of pact. He put his children also at stake - while it was not authorized because of Fiendish Codex II pact rules as described above. The problem is how to make this pact authorisable.

Remember the problem is within game Neverwinter Nights 2. D&D3.5e. If it was in real session I doubt that DM could keep characters like that from playing.
#9

lord_karsus

Apr 10, 2009 11:00:31
Karsus can You just try to find a way to minimalise resources needed for that?

-What do you mean?
#10

esteleath

Apr 10, 2009 11:08:25
I mean find a way to get workaraound against Jaeger point of view. He says only epic mage is able to create such a being. I think he is mistaken, but I don't have any hard proof.
#11

lord_karsus

Apr 10, 2009 11:16:07
-Oh. To forcibly breed an extraplanar creature with, let's say, a Human, all you need to be is a Wizard 9, with access to the Lesser Planar Binding spell. Being as that Red Wizards are Wizards, and they have a history of dealing with extraplanar creatures, it wouldn't be going out on a limb to assume that a single Red Wizard has that spell in his spellbook, and is powerful enough to cast it. When a creature is captured, and fails it's saving throws, it can be compelled to follow your orders, such as mating with a Human. Depending on the extraplanar creature in question, some will be more willing than others to perform such an act.
#12

axleleft

Apr 10, 2009 23:12:13
That'd do it. Also one could go for the less likely option: serious exposure to one/both of the parents to the Elemental Plane of choice and hope the offspring is affected.
#13

markustay63

Apr 11, 2009 12:09:53
Yes... "forcibly breed" means just summoning a Fiend and pointing to some girl you have 'all trussed up', and thats about it. :D

You needn't even control the fiend... unless you don't want him to 'forcibly breed' with you when he's done. :P

Then again, you could always point and then teleport... but you'll never be sure if it's okay to return and examine your 'work'.

As for 'artificial' - there should be some ways of doing that. If you can create half-golems, then you should be able to create half-elementals (and what-not) as well (using some rather disturbing necromantic magics, I would imagine).

As for gods getting dorectly involved with mortals - my rule of thumb has always been that a character needs to roll their level-1 or less on a D20.

-1 if received assistance in the past year
-5 if recieved assistance in the past month
-10 if recieved assistance in the past week
+1 if doing the 'god's work'
+5 if doing something majorly important for the god's church
+10 if on assignment for the god himself (or herself)

Double all bonuses if a priest of the god, and half all the penalties for same. Requires prayer and asking for assistance - a divine being does not act unless asked, or if it has some sort of personal agenda involving the current scenario. Asking for assistance for 'something stupid' is a BIG no-no, and will usually result in the god's not helping, and possibly not answering the character ever again.

With other planer modifications as well, taken from the Planescape setting (dependent on how many planes away, and what-not).

Characters (NPCs and PCs) need not be in direct-communication with their gods, or even behaving in a fashion approved by 'the church' to recieve spell pre-4e (the Weave acts as an indiscriminant delivery system for spells). Post-Spellplague, all bets are off, and most people will probably have to be a little more 'faithful' to recieve their spells, I would imagine (this from a converstaion I had with EG himself).
#14

lady_rolindin

Apr 11, 2009 20:34:34
Yes and remember that the spell you need to use is this one: Impregnate.
If you want to create any kind of half human/ devil/ demon/ any extraplanar creature. The same for an Elf, dwarf, or any other race that is the breeding stock used by red wizards.

I"m sure the Redwizards know the spell and use it to make thier half races, they must if they are making such creatures.
#15

suin_bahhar_02

Apr 12, 2009 7:17:38
Regarding the pact of the father of the paladin.

I don't understand why the baatezu killed those children who could have easily made into pactbound beings as they grew older and taken in by some fiendish ally of the baatezu pactmaker. Was the father's clause that he forfeited the souls of his ofspring as well as his own? That's quite the bargain he threw at the baatezu then, he was probably asking for a significantly large boon. I doubt a faustian pact can be molded to this goal though, as each soul has its own destiny. If that made the pact void in the end the baatezu might have performed the horrible murder in spite, aye.

If the boon to the father hadn't been granted at the end of the bargain the souls of those children would have to be made free aswell.

___


If by artificial genasi or planetouched you mean non-extraplanar but transmuted elemental creatures you are probably talking about homunculi or half-elemental templates. Homunculus are clay and wooden artificial creatures that posses intelligence of their own. On average humonculi are more fragile than golems or elementals because of their composite nature. Half elemental templates are usually spawn of the intercourse between elemental creatures and those of the prime. The descendants of these are in turn genasi for several generations.

In 4e planetouched creatures are largely proving to breed true amongst themselves, with whole societies of them existing on Abeir who have their own genetic interplay of their elements. Genasi mating mix their common elements into soulparts that determine the temperament of their children, so most genasi have dual soulflavours (like stormsoul and a watersoul child from a pairing of a fire and stormgenasi father and a earth and watergenasi mother). Tieflings seem to have had a stable society in Abeir where they devolped a distinguished look that stuck for millenia of internal breeding.
#16

lord_karsus

Apr 13, 2009 23:31:58
Yes and remember that the spell you need to use is this one: Impregnate.

-Is that actually an official D&D sourcebook spell?
#17

esteleath

Apr 19, 2009 10:51:36
I tought that a reasonable explanation is that Helm intervened a little to make the little chapel in the small town where was this happening, and he could be able to do something more IF one of them became his servant and so it happened, then Helm was able to send some information to baatezu about their broken contract. Baatezu still claimed what they wanted but they wasn't able to get all the souls, so one of them challenged Helm into fight for souls, servant of Helm - paladin vs half-fiend his sister. That's what I tought. Whichever falls and becomes converted wins.