Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 davesaunders Jan 11, 2009 17:58:43	I dont know the old rules but I am looking through the free downloaded Netheril: Empire of Magic book. Because I dont know the old rules this is confusing me but I think I have it right. Is this right? With old magic, people thought that the limit was 9 but the Netherese discovered that there wasnt actually a lmimit and cast spells to 12. After Karsus killed the deity of magic, the reborn Mystra put a new set of rules in place that made the limit really 9.
#2 dmd Jan 11, 2009 18:28:36	Yep that is pretty much it in a nutshell. I do not think 12 was the limit it was just all they (TSR) had come up with. I ran a number of adventures in theat Age I thought it was a lot of fun. Especially RPing Karsus. :D I suppose you could return to the past that way in a 4E game but the rules of magic were very different though you don't have to stick to that version of the rules if you do not want to.
#3 maskedone Jan 11, 2009 18:35:50	Eh, sort of. Standard limit for wizards prior to 4E was level 9. The Netherese discovered one of the ways past that and aquired access to levels 10 and 11. Karsus and possibly Ioulaum had access to level 12 but the rest didn't. After the death of Mystryl, Mystra blocked levels 11 and 12. Under 3.X, she blocked level 10 as well where as 2E she merely made it supremely annoying to access and told everyone she blocked it. Now life gets a little interesting because of two points. Level 11 and 12 spells only ever existed (to my limited knowledge) in Toril. Epic Spellcasting (3.x term) which exceeded standard casting was not for the most part affected by Mystra's Ban, it is however naturally much more difficult to use than True level 10+ magic. True Dweomers (2E version of Epic Spellcasting) also got past the Ban safely. Level 10 spells under 2E which may or may not (your call, I separate the two but it's iffy) have been True Dweomers were possible under severe and impolite restrictions. True Dweomers/Epic Spellcasting have never been limited to Toril. You'll want to see Secrets of the Magister probably to see more about the Ban in 2E. Lost Empires of Faerun will hand the 3.x viewpoint well enough.
#4 lord_karsus Jan 13, 2009 13:12:11	-That's pretty much how it goes. -In the past, the Weave supported spells of 10th, 11th, 12th, and presumably, higher. When Karsus cast Karsus' Avatar, and Mystra was born, Mystra placed a cap on casting such spells (which drew directly from the Weave). Epic Magic, which functions very similarly, as it's also very powerful, draws power from both the Weave and the caster, so it is permissible.
#5 Stigger Jan 13, 2009 14:41:51	Effectively an in-game reason as to why wizard spells only went up to 9th level, and not much more. Fluff to explain the crunch as it were.
#6 maskedone Jan 13, 2009 21:45:01	-In the past, the Weave supported spells of 10th, 11th, 12th, and presumably, higher. When Karsus cast Karsus' Avatar, and Mystra was born, Mystra placed a cap on casting such spells (which drew directly from the Weave). Epic Magic, which functions very similarly, as it's also very powerful, draws power from both the Weave and the caster, so it is permissible. Works well enough for me, I like the Epic system more than the high level spells. Easy to customize, don't need to record them in a spellbook and even the weakest is resistant to anti-magic. Off course, they're not helpful all that helpful if you're trying to make the staple spells of a society but for personal use, I prefer epic.
#7 keveras Jan 14, 2009 7:46:23	Karsus and possibly Ioulaum had access to level 12 but the rest didn't. Both Karsus and Ioulaum definitely had access to lvl 12 spells according to Table 1 on page 18 in N:EpoM, though the only spell known was Karsus' Avatar, apparently. Under 3.X, she blocked level 10 as well where as 2E she merely made it supremely annoying to access and told everyone she blocked it. Weren't the elves of Myth Drannor still be able to cast 10th lvl spells 'till the fall of Myth Drannor? Because I can clearly remember that after the fall of Myth Drannor 10th lvl spells were only with the consent of Mystra be possible to cast. Either The Fall of Myth Drannor of Cormanthyr said so.
#8 maskedone Jan 14, 2009 9:16:48	Under 2E rules, level 10 spells remained available under heavy restrictions. Elves were slightly less restricted than humans for a while. Cormanthyr and Secrets of the Magister paint slightly different pictures, I prefer the Secrets of the Magister version but either is functional. 3.X ruling, level 10+ is banned completely for everyone. Epic is left available for everyone.
#9 lord_karsus Jan 14, 2009 10:59:05	Works well enough for me, I like the Epic system more than the high level spells. Easy to customize, don't need to record them in a spellbook and even the weakest is resistant to anti-magic. -I have no problems with the Epic Magic system. I like it even better when mixed with the 2e rules of True Dweomers, and these not being able to be cast again, and that Epic Magic is one's way to "bypass" that- at their own risk.