Netheril vs. neighbors war - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Scrinoverlord Oct 30, 2010 22:22:26	I brought this up a few years ago, but since then there's been an influx in new members, new FR books, and new ideas. I haven't exactly run a campaign in this scenario yet, but it's a distinct possibility; I'm itching to do a D&D campaign set in a period of war, where the characters fight for one side or another and go on behind enemy lines missions, assassinating key leaders, disrupting the war effort, and so on. So, picture this. For whatever reason, war breaks out between Netheril and its neighbors, but we knew it was inevitable, right? On one side you have: -Netheril -Sembia vs. -Cormyr -Evereska -Myth Drannor -Luruar -The Dales (the ones not under Sembian control) Obviously, Netheril is quite lonely. Since I have no idea how powerful Netherese military power is (it must be pretty dang strong since they were able to destroy Zhentil Keep), I'd figure they'd hold their own, at least for a while. But they'd be fighting a three-front war, which is...well, bad. So then what's the solution? Find more allies. So my question is, where would they find allies? Perhaps in the serpeant-kingdom of Najara, offering recgonition of a mighty empire and lands in the Silver Marches? Perhaps if the orc kingdom of Many-Arrows was persuaded to make war on its southern neighbors if its king was replaced by a more militant monarch? Maybe they would go so far as to find allies with Szass Tam's Thay, though Netheril and Thay are pretty dang far away to really help each other. So, here's my questions that hopefully you more seasoned Realms folk might answer: where would Netheril find allies in a war with its neighbors? How powerful is Netherse military might? Would they win in a confronation with their neighbors?
#2 angelus_obscura Oct 31, 2010 2:32:45	Are you placing this war post-Spellplague? If yes, I would suggest making it a three-sided war including Thay. Also, including the orc Kingdom of Many Arrows would make things even more interesting. Sembian gold might sway them to Netheril's side, but their position in Luruar might make them side with Luruar or remain neutral. Thay is now a land of undeath, ruled by Szass Tam. His goal is to expand his Dread Rings, deathblasted areas of land where undead rise constantly. Neverwinter becamse such a place just recently. Thay and Netheril are basically bitter rivals in their campaigns of conquest. Netheril is quite powerful, actually. With Sembia under their heels, they now have the money to build even bigger armies. Also, they have two floating cities with a third soon to be found/resurrected if you choose. This third Netherese city was rumored to have crashed near the woods of what was Neverwinter in the past. So Neverwinter is a hotly contested piece of land right now (between Thay and Netheril). Honestly, I would keep Evereska out of the fight. I would have the eladrin lords there proclaim neutrality and let "mortal" affairs remain out of their borders. However, Myth Drannor could still aide the humans. As for Netheril finding allies, I would have them approach the Warlock Knights of Vaasa (to their East). Also, intrigue with some of the Banites among the Knights would be give more plot hooks as well.
#3 chrysalis700 Oct 31, 2010 8:19:00	Before going to war let's do a list: What are the external gains (including political and financial)? What are the internal gains (including political)? What are the contested areas? What are its neighbours? How does this war strengthen the position of its nation? What form of action would be taken? Which military doctrine would be followed? I used to have a long checklist, but I have misplaced it.
#4 BRJN Dec 11, 2010 19:15:07	The Hundred Years' War lasted as long as it did because neither side could get to the heart of the enemy's power. You could have the Netheril War be a grinding near-stalemate with each participant conducting 1 campaign per year for a limited objective, everybody reasoning that one step forward, &c. As I observed in the older thread, any war which is not short tends to spread. Somebody might accept a big bribe to take a whack at ... whoever didn't offer the bigger bribe. Then the bribe-taker's enemies jump on him while his big army is off adventuring. Or - dirty tricks - they jump the expeditionary force en route, putting it through a meat grinder of ambushes in unfamiliar territory. There is still Black Network active in the Realms. You think they won't want revenge? On the sly, perhaps?
#5 meldread Dec 12, 2010 0:41:46	Netheril could potentially win any war fought against them if they properly utilized diplomacy, strategic alliances, favorable trade agreements, and the proper application of military force. Sometimes you don't actually have to use military force - merely the threat is enough. Though, of course, if you're going to make the threat you damn well be ready to back it up. Otherwise future threats will appear empty. The main problem that would face Netheril takes place on their eastern flank - an alliance of the Dales, Cormyr, and Myth Drannor arrayed against them. Thus, if I were Netheril I'd take the old Red Wizards approach to the Dales. I'd set up favorable trade agreements, woo and bribe those in power, meanwhile I would secretly make contacts within the Eldreth Veluuthra. I'd make that contact through third party agents that don't know they're working for Netheril. It would be preferable if I could sway some elves to the cause of Netheril - elves that are willing to betray their own people - and I'd establish a front group within Silverymoon or thereabouts to give funds to Eldreth Veluuthra. Meanwhile, since I know Myth Drannor will never consent to even trade with me, I maintain my hostile posture toward them. When the Eldreth Veluuthra attack the Dalelander humans, I work behind the scenes to stoke anger and passion. I establish a front group of humans who hate Elves and want to attack them. I have Netheril funnel money into this group. The goal is not to get the two sides to actually fight, but to create distrust and hostility. In order for Myth Drannor to militarily strike at Netheril they will have to pass through one of the Dales. The reverse, obviously, is also true. The Elves of Myth Drannor will obviously accuse the Netherese of being behind it, that's fine - that's exactly what you want. They will also likely see the Netherese as manipulating the humans so that they can strike at Myth Drannor. Again, that is fine. That's exactly what you want. You'd want this, and it wouldn't be a problem, because you have no intention of striking at Myth Drannor. Moving eastward poses too many difficulties, and securing it will take decades. The North, on the other hand, is more divided... easier to conquer. Cormyr can be kept in check by Sembian forces. If they want to move to attack you on your Southern flank then they'd have to fight Sembian's on their eastern and southern flanks. If you're lucky you can get Westgate involved as well. However, in order to move west into the Silver Marches you're going to have to deal with Evereska. They are a thorn that must be plucked from your side as they will oppose any expansion in that direction. This, again, requires some deftly made alliances and agreements. First, you have the Kingdom of Many Arrows. Handle them exactly as you've handled the Dalelanders. Grant them favorable agreements, ingratiate yourself to them. Silverymoon will always stand in opposition to you, and thus having the Kingdom of Many Arrows on your side makes them a useful tool to strike at Silverymoon should they ever think to intervene. Second, you turn to the Drow. Favorable agreements can be created among them as well, but what you want to do instead is to stoke their hatred of the Elves. Offer them the opportunity to strike at Evereska. Third, create strategic alliances within the Feywild. It's important to understand that Evereska stands on a border between the Feywild and can pass and receive aid from both sides. This - aside from the Mythal - is what makes Evereska a danger. I'd send emissaries into the Underdark of the Feywild to seek out the Fomorian and their Cyclops servants. I'd also seek out a powerful Hag or other powerful evil fey that could be useful. Finally, with these alliances it's time for the last piece to fall into place. That piece involves the magic that Netheril can provide. As I said, the biggest obstacle to attacking Evereska is their strong connection to the Feywild and Mythal. Securing the necessary alliances can deal with any allies those in Evereska can call forth, but that still leaves the Mythal. That is where the magic of Netheril has to come into play. According to the FRCG there is something known as the "Shadow Remnant": "During the phaerimm siege, the protective shell around the city was strengthened by a pall of Shadow Weave magic. This act helped block the phaerimms’ spells, but occasioned near disastrous results for the mythal. Though it was successfully removed for the most part, a single remnant of the shadow veil has persisted through the decades, stymieing the high mages’ attempts to dispel it. It appears as a thin, rectangular sheet of utter darkness suspended high in the air. Without warning, vile magic spits forth, along with even more vile creatures straight out of the Shadowfell." This appears to be a portal of some sort. The Netherese could use this knowledge to expand the Shadow Remnant so that it surrounds most or all of the Mythal in both the Feywild AND the Shadowfell. This would effectively mean that Evereska would exist and touch all three places simultaneously at once. Additionally, it could destroy or cause the Mythal itself to become inoperative. In either event, the Netherese can bring the Drow from the Underdark in Toril into the Shadowfell, and from there they can move back into Toril to strike at Evereska. On the Feywild side, the army there can be brought into the Shadowfell and then move back into the Feywild to strike at Evereska from the Feywild side. This would have Evereska surrounded on all sides: in the Feywild, on Toril, and in the Shadowfell. Now, normally Evereska would have allies running to their defense, but you've prepared for that. Myth Drannor has two main options to help Evereska. They could attempt to move into the Feywild and offer support there, but you've prepared for that with your Feywild alliance. They could attempt to move their army through the Dalelands and strike at the heart of Netheril directly in hopes of providing some aid to Evereska. However, you've already planned that far ahead. No, Myth Drannor thinks you want to attack them because of what you've been doing in the Dalelands. Evereska is surrounded and all you've done is provide magical aid. Thus, you ensure that it leaks out that its the hope of Netheril that Myth Drannor will move into the Feywild and attempt to 'save' Evereska. In doing so, you'll move through the Dalelands and attack Myth Drannor while it is undefended - thus, it appears to those in Myth Drannor as if the Netherese are using the attack on Evereska as a diversion. Therefore, if they do send assistance to Evereska through the Feywild it is likely to be inadequate. On the other hand, they may attempt to move through the Dalelands. However, moving an army through the Dales without the permission of the Dales would mean war. Naturally, since you've allied with the Dales you ensure that such permission is never given. If Myth Drannor looks as if they're going to march through anyway... the Dales will turn to either Netheril or Cormyr for aid. If Cormyr intervenes and prevents Myth Drannor from moving through the Dales, then this could potentially create a whole new and wonderful conflict that works in Netheril's favor. On the other hand, if the Dales turn to you then you can have your army ready to stop such an advancement by Myth Drannor. Then there is the final option that Myth Drannor might attempt to move their army into the Feywild regardless of the threat to themselves. That's when you carry out your threat as promised and get permission to move your army through the Dales to attack Myth Drannor while it is left undefended. No matter what the outcome, at this point, you've won. If Myth Drannor and Evereska manage to push back or destroy the Drow and Evil Fey armies... that's no major loss to you. They weren't your army. The end result is that both Evereska and Myth Drannor are horribly weakened by the war effort while you've expended minimal effort. If Myth Drannor keeps their army at home to defend against a possible attack from Netheril, then Evereska falls, opening up the pathway to Silverymoon. The attack from Netheril never comes, because Myth Drannor was never the primary target. If Myth Drannor sends minimal support into the Feywild to help Evereska, but keeps the bulk of their troops at home, then Evereska falls, again opening the pathway to Silverymoon, and an attack from Netheril never comes. If Myth Drannor attempts to move through a hostile Dalelands, then it means you have the Dales on your side in a war against Myth Drannor. You provide aid and attack them. You ensure that aid never comes to Evereska and as a result Evereska falls. If you're lucky Myth Drannor also falls, but of course you've expended some of your military effort, but since Evereska has fallen there is no need to do a major push into the North until you're ready. It is quite possible, if your cards are played masterfully, that Myth Drannor could enrage both Cormyr and the Dalelands, and both Evereska and Myth Drannor could fall - surviving refugees from Myth Drannor would find it difficult to settle in either Cormyr or the Dales after the war, and would be forced to flee elsewhere... further out of the hair of Netheril. In the best case scenario for Evereska and Myth Drannor - Evereska isn't completely destroyed, just severely crippled, and likewise Myth Drannor is also horribly weakened. No matter the outcome, Evereska is removed as an obstacle for your expansion into the North. Also, let us not forget that Netheril has enemies in the North as well - namely Silverymoon. However, you've solved that problem by aligning yourself with the Kingdom of Many Arrows. If Silverymoon attempts to move their armies toward Evereska to give aid, it will leave Silverymoon undefended and ripe for attack by the Kingdom of Many Arrows. Naturally, you'd give them aid. To the south, if Cormyr attempts to move North to provide Evereska aid then you attack them from Sembia. That will force them to keep their armies at home to fend off such an attack. No matter what happens, Netheril is free to move into the North to attack Silverymoon with the aid of the Kingdom of Many Arrows. Waterdeep is too far and the North too wild for them to get there in time. The other armies that could arrive are too weak to be of much help and are easily dealt with by the Netherese. In a best case scenario Myth Drannor, Evereska, and Silverymoon are all destroyed. It would be difficult, but not impossible, to pull such a feat off. In a worse case scenario Myth Drannor and Silverymoon realize the plan of Netheril and make the pragmatic choice to NOT aid Evereska. They keep their entire armies at home. This makes things difficult for the Netherese because if they move to attack Silverymoon it means they have to worry about Myth Drannor at their flank... but it's still good for the Netherese because Evereska has fallen. If I were the Netherese, this would be my plan. Once the North has been taken - from the Spine of the World to Luskan and Neverwinter - and as far south as Waterdeep... once these areas are firmly under the hands of Netheril that's when you turn east toward Cormyr, the Dales, and Myth Drannor. The wave of your expanded Empire would be impossible to stop, even if all of them united... and of course, you would work to ensure that such a thing never happened by playing them all against each other. In a best case scenario they'd all eventually submit to your rule without even having the first soldier march into their lands.
#6 pruano Dec 12, 2010 5:10:12	The goal is not to get the two sides to actually fight, but to create distrust and hostility. In order for Myth Drannor to militarily strike at Netheril they will have to pass through one of the Dales. The obvious choice for both strategic as well as political reasons is Daggerdale. The reverse, obviously, is also true. The Elves of Myth Drannor will obviously accuse the Netherese of being behind it, that's fine - that's exactly what you want. They will also likely see the Netherese as manipulating the humans so that they can strike at Myth Drannor. Again, that is fine. That's exactly what you want. Already happened with Featherdale. I also would throw Westgate into the mix, having them side with Netheril (due to merchant connections with Sembia), to conteract the Cormyr protectorate of Tezzir and have an important choke point between Cormyr and the rest of the Sea of Fallen Stars. Gulthandor is also a ripe target for the Eldreth Veluuthra, which are a valuable partner for Netheril, given their foothold in plain Cormyr (the Hullack Forest).
#7 DoctorBadWolf Dec 24, 2010 2:27:22	My keys for started the war wouldn't be in the hands of The Shadovar. It would involve a small number of wild cards, and the return of two gods that I want to come back anyway. First, itchies. That is, adventurers. Do gooder adventurers have a hard time ignoring injustice and evil practices, and well, it's Netheril. Bored adventurers love getting into trouble, and there's plenty of opportunity if the organizations who are working in the shadows to thwart Netheril start recruiting more actively. Second, the Shadar-kai. A charismatic leader, born in Shade Enclave during it's time in the Shadowfell, who comes to worship Mask mostly because he detests what he sees as Netherese slavery to Shar, and feels that the teachings of Shar are detrimental to his people. This leader leaves Shade Enclave, and gathers support amongst other ex-patriot Shadar-kai, as well as those living in the underdark and the Shadowfell to work to bring the Shadar-kai out of Netheril, or else overthrow Shar's stranglehold on their race. (obviously this requires the return of Mask. But then, Mask is awesome, so why not.) Third, Sembian greed mixed with the foolish actions of an idiot noble. Something that results in dead Cormyreans (or even some elves from Myth Drannor, see below), and happens too quickly for the Netherese puppet masters to stop. Second for the gods is Shaundekul. He's never liked Shar, and was once the patron god of Myth Drannor, before it's fall. His priests don't push for war to start, but once battles start happening, they are at the forfront, and have early successes at pushing against the Netherese. All these things don't make a war by themselves, but then a group of adventurers, including a Cormyrean, a Dalelander, and a Myth Drannor holy person of Shaundekul take a quest further than it needs to go, and kill a prince of Shade....
#8 pruano Dec 24, 2010 6:13:38	Third, Sembian greed mixed with the foolish actions of an idiot noble. Something that results in dead Cormyreans (or even some elves from Myth Drannor, see below), and happens too quickly for the Netherese puppet masters to stop. I would make a connection with the shadow caravans instead. Shadow caravans are discovered within cormyrian soil (possibly smuggling weapons to the Eldreth Veluuthra in the Hullack Forest) by a member of the Wyvernspur noble family, on assignment (possibly with suport from the elfs of Myth Drannor, as mentioned), and is killed, but the deed isnt covered very well, and connections are made to Sembia and Netheril. Proof of Netheril giving weapons to an entrenched enemy in Cormyr soil, along with the death of a cormyrian noble, will escalate tensions considerably.
#9 DoctorBadWolf Dec 25, 2010 14:12:06	That seems reasonable. I really like the idea of the war not really being what the leaders of either side wants, but it happening because of things outside their control.
#10 aardwolf Feb 05, 2011 13:37:16	netheril is powerful, but not much population, I think they would lose any war of attrition.
#11 pruano Feb 06, 2011 8:37:12	Just to add a possible sideline, which our two regular groups will be using in an upcoming Team-Up style session: Shar, to improve the chances of such war, increase her power (due to the ramifications) and keep the other gods busy, is secretly helping Garagus increasing his power (through creation of power places that channel energy to Garagus) so that he can challenge Tempus, win back the War portfolio and basically revert to his Targus (Netherese god of war) persona (kinda like the Lathander/Amaunathor switch). With the rise to power of the Netherese God of War (under her thumb), Shar can not only better further along a conflict, but also gain support from the weakened but still existing cells of Garagus supporters throughout Toril. This will have the added effect of destabilizing the power balance in the pantheons, and at least remove some of the spotlight on her, so that she can better proceed with some other schemes. As of now, in our campaigns, several of the gods (notably Moradin and Tempus) have suspicions on what is going on and will send several champions (the two groups) to destroy one such place of power and gather further proof (the fact that there are Shar sleeper agents within the groups will make things even more interesting). What do you think?
#12 DoctorBadWolf Feb 11, 2011 1:16:31	Someone in one of the groups should secretly serve Drasek Riven, and through him be working toward the return of Mask. But then, I kind of have this thing lately with the return of Mask, and the thought of him coming back as The Shadow Within The Shadow.
#13 pruano Feb 11, 2011 9:46:30	Someone in one of the groups should secretly serve Drasek Riven, and through him be working toward the return of Mask. But then, I kind of have this thing lately with the return of Mask, and the thought of him coming back as The Shadow Within The Shadow. Unfortunately, im at the moment reading the works of Paul Kemp (im at the middle of Dawn of Night), so i dont want any spoilers. I DO have a player in my group that belonged to a sect of Mask assassins, something that was recently revealed to the rest of the group (they suffered an assassination attempt in Westgate). On the other group, there is also a PC that has been captured, brainwashed, and made into a Shar sleeper agent. I know that Mask was actually Shars son, and was either killed or absorved by her. If you could expand on your points WITHOUT any spoilers, i would appreciate it; may give some more connections with my own campaign, which wont deal directly with the Team-Up event, after it is completed, but i would like some aftermath events to influence my own campaign, instead of being a side-trek (and even if im the one coming with the storyline, im a little short on that point).
#14 DoctorBadWolf Feb 11, 2011 20:50:02	Oh man, you're in for a treat. Just wait till you get to the twilight war trilogy! So much win. Anyway, what I can tell you, spoiler free, is that Mask is not forgotten. Like it says in the shadowfell section of the FRCG, Mask's keep in the shadowfell is still there, and still inhabited sometimes by his remaining chosen. The general feeling amongst those who know Mask's nature and were around for the twilight war is that Mask is gone, for now. I figure, Paul Kemp is either going to ressurect Mask somehow, or a new Mask will be made. Either way, I doubt the god will have much love for dear old mum. The whole thing leads to servants of Mask being absolutely fantastic characters to play in any campaign that involves going against the Shadovar, or other servants of Shar. The whole "Shadow within the Shadow" thing comes from a character I made; a shadar-kai assassin/avenger/covenent agent who was born in Shade Enclave, and remembers that city coming out of The Shadow. He served Mask in secret, and even now works toward the goal of returning his god to the world, all hidden behind the mask of a loyal Netherese citizen. long version: Show In secret, and in the heart of Shar's dominion, he served Mask, after the Shadowlord showed him the end result of Shar's will. (that is, the total and irrevocable annihilation of all things. ) As that revelation (most servants of Shar know this, but few are placed momentarily at the brink of it, unable to look away or ignore the horrible magnitude of it) sank in, he "happened" to find proof that the death of his family was not accidental, but instead that they were murdered to initiate his younger sister into the church of Shar. From then, he became a shadow within the eternal night of the Shadovar. His true nature hidden behind a mask in a city full of secrets. If he is not kind, what Sharran is? If he keeps his own council, is Shar not the Lady of Secrets? Hiding in plain sight.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Scrinoverlord

Oct 30, 2010 22:22:26

I brought this up a few years ago, but since then there's been an influx in new members, new FR books, and new ideas. I haven't exactly run a campaign in this scenario yet, but it's a distinct possibility; I'm itching to do a D&D campaign set in a period of war, where the characters fight for one side or another and go on behind enemy lines missions, assassinating key leaders, disrupting the war effort, and so on.

So, picture this. For whatever reason, war breaks out between Netheril and its neighbors, but we knew it was inevitable, right? On one side you have:

-Netheril
-Sembia

vs.

-Cormyr
-Evereska
-Myth Drannor
-Luruar
-The Dales (the ones not under Sembian control)

Obviously, Netheril is quite lonely. Since I have no idea how powerful Netherese military power is (it must be pretty dang strong since they were able to destroy Zhentil Keep), I'd figure they'd hold their own, at least for a while. But they'd be fighting a three-front war, which is...well, bad.

So then what's the solution? Find more allies. So my question is, where would they find allies? Perhaps in the serpeant-kingdom of Najara, offering recgonition of a mighty empire and lands in the Silver Marches? Perhaps if the orc kingdom of Many-Arrows was persuaded to make war on its southern neighbors if its king was replaced by a more militant monarch? Maybe they would go so far as to find allies with Szass Tam's Thay, though Netheril and Thay are pretty dang far away to really help each other.

So, here's my questions that hopefully you more seasoned Realms folk might answer: where would Netheril find allies in a war with its neighbors? How powerful is Netherse military might? Would they win in a confronation with their neighbors?

angelus_obscura

Oct 31, 2010 2:32:45

Are you placing this war post-Spellplague? If yes, I would suggest making it a three-sided war including Thay.

Also, including the orc Kingdom of Many Arrows would make things even more interesting. Sembian gold might sway them to Netheril's side, but their position in Luruar might make them side with Luruar or remain neutral.

Thay is now a land of undeath, ruled by Szass Tam. His goal is to expand his Dread Rings, deathblasted areas of land where undead rise constantly. Neverwinter becamse such a place just recently. Thay and Netheril are basically bitter rivals in their campaigns of conquest.

Netheril is quite powerful, actually. With Sembia under their heels, they now have the money to build even bigger armies. Also, they have two floating cities with a third soon to be found/resurrected if you choose. This third Netherese city was rumored to have crashed near the woods of what was Neverwinter in the past. So Neverwinter is a hotly contested piece of land right now (between Thay and Netheril).

Honestly, I would keep Evereska out of the fight. I would have the eladrin lords there proclaim neutrality and let "mortal" affairs remain out of their borders. However, Myth Drannor could still aide the humans.

As for Netheril finding allies, I would have them approach the Warlock Knights of Vaasa (to their East). Also, intrigue with some of the Banites among the Knights would be give more plot hooks as well.

chrysalis700

Oct 31, 2010 8:19:00

Before going to war let's do a list:

What are the external gains (including political and financial)?
What are the internal gains (including political)?
What are the contested areas?
What are its neighbours?
How does this war strengthen the position of its nation?
What form of action would be taken?
Which military doctrine would be followed?

I used to have a long checklist, but I have misplaced it.

BRJN

Dec 11, 2010 19:15:07

The Hundred Years' War lasted as long as it did because neither side could get to the heart of the enemy's power. You could have the Netheril War be a grinding near-stalemate with each participant conducting 1 campaign per year for a limited objective, everybody reasoning that one step forward, &c.

As I observed in the older thread, any war which is not short tends to spread. Somebody might accept a big bribe to take a whack at ... whoever didn't offer the bigger bribe. Then the bribe-taker's enemies jump on him while his big army is off adventuring. Or - dirty tricks - they jump the expeditionary force en route, putting it through a meat grinder of ambushes in unfamiliar territory.

There is still Black Network active in the Realms. You think they won't want revenge? On the sly, perhaps?

meldread

Dec 12, 2010 0:41:46

Netheril could potentially win any war fought against them if they properly utilized diplomacy, strategic alliances, favorable trade agreements, and the proper application of military force. Sometimes you don't actually have to use military force - merely the threat is enough. Though, of course, if you're going to make the threat you damn well be ready to back it up. Otherwise future threats will appear empty.

The main problem that would face Netheril takes place on their eastern flank - an alliance of the Dales, Cormyr, and Myth Drannor arrayed against them. Thus, if I were Netheril I'd take the old Red Wizards approach to the Dales. I'd set up favorable trade agreements, woo and bribe those in power, meanwhile I would secretly make contacts within the Eldreth Veluuthra. I'd make that contact through third party agents that don't know they're working for Netheril. It would be preferable if I could sway some elves to the cause of Netheril - elves that are willing to betray their own people - and I'd establish a front group within Silverymoon or thereabouts to give funds to Eldreth Veluuthra.

Meanwhile, since I know Myth Drannor will never consent to even trade with me, I maintain my hostile posture toward them. When the Eldreth Veluuthra attack the Dalelander humans, I work behind the scenes to stoke anger and passion. I establish a front group of humans who hate Elves and want to attack them. I have Netheril funnel money into this group.

The goal is not to get the two sides to actually fight, but to create distrust and hostility. In order for Myth Drannor to militarily strike at Netheril they will have to pass through one of the Dales. The reverse, obviously, is also true. The Elves of Myth Drannor will obviously accuse the Netherese of being behind it, that's fine - that's exactly what you want. They will also likely see the Netherese as manipulating the humans so that they can strike at Myth Drannor. Again, that is fine. That's exactly what you want.

You'd want this, and it wouldn't be a problem, because you have no intention of striking at Myth Drannor. Moving eastward poses too many difficulties, and securing it will take decades. The North, on the other hand, is more divided... easier to conquer. Cormyr can be kept in check by Sembian forces. If they want to move to attack you on your Southern flank then they'd have to fight Sembian's on their eastern and southern flanks. If you're lucky you can get Westgate involved as well.

However, in order to move west into the Silver Marches you're going to have to deal with Evereska. They are a thorn that must be plucked from your side as they will oppose any expansion in that direction. This, again, requires some deftly made alliances and agreements.

First, you have the Kingdom of Many Arrows. Handle them exactly as you've handled the Dalelanders. Grant them favorable agreements, ingratiate yourself to them. Silverymoon will always stand in opposition to you, and thus having the Kingdom of Many Arrows on your side makes them a useful tool to strike at Silverymoon should they ever think to intervene.

Second, you turn to the Drow. Favorable agreements can be created among them as well, but what you want to do instead is to stoke their hatred of the Elves. Offer them the opportunity to strike at Evereska.

Third, create strategic alliances within the Feywild. It's important to understand that Evereska stands on a border between the Feywild and can pass and receive aid from both sides. This - aside from the Mythal - is what makes Evereska a danger. I'd send emissaries into the Underdark of the Feywild to seek out the Fomorian and their Cyclops servants. I'd also seek out a powerful Hag or other powerful evil fey that could be useful.

Finally, with these alliances it's time for the last piece to fall into place. That piece involves the magic that Netheril can provide. As I said, the biggest obstacle to attacking Evereska is their strong connection to the Feywild and Mythal. Securing the necessary alliances can deal with any allies those in Evereska can call forth, but that still leaves the Mythal. That is where the magic of Netheril has to come into play.

According to the FRCG there is something known as the "Shadow Remnant": "During the phaerimm siege, the protective shell around the city was strengthened by a pall of Shadow Weave magic. This act helped block the phaerimms’ spells, but occasioned near disastrous results for the mythal.

Though it was successfully removed for the most part, a single remnant of the shadow veil has persisted through the decades, stymieing the high mages’ attempts to dispel it. It appears as a thin, rectangular sheet of utter darkness suspended high in the air. Without warning, vile magic spits forth, along with even more vile creatures straight out of the Shadowfell."

This appears to be a portal of some sort. The Netherese could use this knowledge to expand the Shadow Remnant so that it surrounds most or all of the Mythal in both the Feywild AND the Shadowfell. This would effectively mean that Evereska would exist and touch all three places simultaneously at once. Additionally, it could destroy or cause the Mythal itself to become inoperative.

In either event, the Netherese can bring the Drow from the Underdark in Toril into the Shadowfell, and from there they can move back into Toril to strike at Evereska. On the Feywild side, the army there can be brought into the Shadowfell and then move back into the Feywild to strike at Evereska from the Feywild side.

This would have Evereska surrounded on all sides: in the Feywild, on Toril, and in the Shadowfell.

Now, normally Evereska would have allies running to their defense, but you've prepared for that. Myth Drannor has two main options to help Evereska. They could attempt to move into the Feywild and offer support there, but you've prepared for that with your Feywild alliance. They could attempt to move their army through the Dalelands and strike at the heart of Netheril directly in hopes of providing some aid to Evereska.

However, you've already planned that far ahead. No, Myth Drannor thinks you want to attack them because of what you've been doing in the Dalelands. Evereska is surrounded and all you've done is provide magical aid. Thus, you ensure that it leaks out that its the hope of Netheril that Myth Drannor will move into the Feywild and attempt to 'save' Evereska. In doing so, you'll move through the Dalelands and attack Myth Drannor while it is undefended - thus, it appears to those in Myth Drannor as if the Netherese are using the attack on Evereska as a diversion. Therefore, if they do send assistance to Evereska through the Feywild it is likely to be inadequate.

On the other hand, they may attempt to move through the Dalelands. However, moving an army through the Dales without the permission of the Dales would mean war. Naturally, since you've allied with the Dales you ensure that such permission is never given. If Myth Drannor looks as if they're going to march through anyway... the Dales will turn to either Netheril or Cormyr for aid. If Cormyr intervenes and prevents Myth Drannor from moving through the Dales, then this could potentially create a whole new and wonderful conflict that works in Netheril's favor. On the other hand, if the Dales turn to you then you can have your army ready to stop such an advancement by Myth Drannor.

Then there is the final option that Myth Drannor might attempt to move their army into the Feywild regardless of the threat to themselves. That's when you carry out your threat as promised and get permission to move your army through the Dales to attack Myth Drannor while it is left undefended. No matter what the outcome, at this point, you've won.

If Myth Drannor and Evereska manage to push back or destroy the Drow and Evil Fey armies... that's no major loss to you. They weren't your army. The end result is that both Evereska and Myth Drannor are horribly weakened by the war effort while you've expended minimal effort.

If Myth Drannor keeps their army at home to defend against a possible attack from Netheril, then Evereska falls, opening up the pathway to Silverymoon. The attack from Netheril never comes, because Myth Drannor was never the primary target.

If Myth Drannor sends minimal support into the Feywild to help Evereska, but keeps the bulk of their troops at home, then Evereska falls, again opening the pathway to Silverymoon, and an attack from Netheril never comes.

If Myth Drannor attempts to move through a hostile Dalelands, then it means you have the Dales on your side in a war against Myth Drannor. You provide aid and attack them. You ensure that aid never comes to Evereska and as a result Evereska falls. If you're lucky Myth Drannor also falls, but of course you've expended some of your military effort, but since Evereska has fallen there is no need to do a major push into the North until you're ready.

It is quite possible, if your cards are played masterfully, that Myth Drannor could enrage both Cormyr and the Dalelands, and both Evereska and Myth Drannor could fall - surviving refugees from Myth Drannor would find it difficult to settle in either Cormyr or the Dales after the war, and would be forced to flee elsewhere... further out of the hair of Netheril.

In the best case scenario for Evereska and Myth Drannor - Evereska isn't completely destroyed, just severely crippled, and likewise Myth Drannor is also horribly weakened.

No matter the outcome, Evereska is removed as an obstacle for your expansion into the North.

Also, let us not forget that Netheril has enemies in the North as well - namely Silverymoon. However, you've solved that problem by aligning yourself with the Kingdom of Many Arrows. If Silverymoon attempts to move their armies toward Evereska to give aid, it will leave Silverymoon undefended and ripe for attack by the Kingdom of Many Arrows. Naturally, you'd give them aid.

To the south, if Cormyr attempts to move North to provide Evereska aid then you attack them from Sembia. That will force them to keep their armies at home to fend off such an attack.

No matter what happens, Netheril is free to move into the North to attack Silverymoon with the aid of the Kingdom of Many Arrows. Waterdeep is too far and the North too wild for them to get there in time. The other armies that could arrive are too weak to be of much help and are easily dealt with by the Netherese.

In a best case scenario Myth Drannor, Evereska, and Silverymoon are all destroyed. It would be difficult, but not impossible, to pull such a feat off.

In a worse case scenario Myth Drannor and Silverymoon realize the plan of Netheril and make the pragmatic choice to NOT aid Evereska. They keep their entire armies at home. This makes things difficult for the Netherese because if they move to attack Silverymoon it means they have to worry about Myth Drannor at their flank... but it's still good for the Netherese because Evereska has fallen.

If I were the Netherese, this would be my plan. Once the North has been taken - from the Spine of the World to Luskan and Neverwinter - and as far south as Waterdeep... once these areas are firmly under the hands of Netheril that's when you turn east toward Cormyr, the Dales, and Myth Drannor. The wave of your expanded Empire would be impossible to stop, even if all of them united... and of course, you would work to ensure that such a thing never happened by playing them all against each other. In a best case scenario they'd all eventually submit to your rule without even having the first soldier march into their lands.

pruano

Dec 12, 2010 5:10:12

The goal is not to get the two sides to actually fight, but to create distrust and hostility. In order for Myth Drannor to militarily strike at Netheril they will have to pass through one of the Dales.

The obvious choice for both strategic as well as political reasons is Daggerdale.

The reverse, obviously, is also true. The Elves of Myth Drannor will obviously accuse the Netherese of being behind it, that's fine - that's exactly what you want. They will also likely see the Netherese as manipulating the humans so that they can strike at Myth Drannor. Again, that is fine. That's exactly what you want.

Already happened with Featherdale.

I also would throw Westgate into the mix, having them side with Netheril (due to merchant connections with Sembia), to conteract the Cormyr protectorate of Tezzir and have an important choke point between Cormyr and the rest of the Sea of Fallen Stars.

Gulthandor is also a ripe target for the Eldreth Veluuthra, which are a valuable partner for Netheril, given their foothold in plain Cormyr (the Hullack Forest).

DoctorBadWolf

Dec 24, 2010 2:27:22

My keys for started the war wouldn't be in the hands of The Shadovar. It would involve a small number of wild cards, and the return of two gods that I want to come back anyway.

First, itchies. That is, adventurers. Do gooder adventurers have a hard time ignoring injustice and evil practices, and well, it's Netheril. Bored adventurers love getting into trouble, and there's plenty of opportunity if the organizations who are working in the shadows to thwart Netheril start recruiting more actively.

Second, the Shadar-kai. A charismatic leader, born in Shade Enclave during it's time in the Shadowfell, who comes to worship Mask mostly because he detests what he sees as Netherese slavery to Shar, and feels that the teachings of Shar are detrimental to his people. This leader leaves Shade Enclave, and gathers support amongst other ex-patriot Shadar-kai, as well as those living in the underdark and the Shadowfell to work to bring the Shadar-kai out of Netheril, or else overthrow Shar's stranglehold on their race. (obviously this requires the return of Mask. But then, Mask is awesome, so why not.)

Third, Sembian greed mixed with the foolish actions of an idiot noble. Something that results in dead Cormyreans (or even some elves from Myth Drannor, see below), and happens too quickly for the Netherese puppet masters to stop.

Second for the gods is Shaundekul. He's never liked Shar, and was once the patron god of Myth Drannor, before it's fall. His priests don't push for war to start, but once battles start happening, they are at the forfront, and have early successes at pushing against the Netherese.

All these things don't make a war by themselves, but then a group of adventurers, including a Cormyrean, a Dalelander, and a Myth Drannor holy person of Shaundekul take a quest further than it needs to go, and kill a prince of Shade....

pruano

Dec 24, 2010 6:13:38

Third, Sembian greed mixed with the foolish actions of an idiot noble. Something that results in dead Cormyreans (or even some elves from Myth Drannor, see below), and happens too quickly for the Netherese puppet masters to stop.

I would make a connection with the shadow caravans instead.

Shadow caravans are discovered within cormyrian soil (possibly smuggling weapons to the Eldreth Veluuthra in the Hullack Forest) by a member of the Wyvernspur noble family, on assignment (possibly with suport from the elfs of Myth Drannor, as mentioned), and is killed, but the deed isnt covered very well, and connections are made to Sembia and Netheril.

Proof of Netheril giving weapons to an entrenched enemy in Cormyr soil, along with the death of a cormyrian noble, will escalate tensions considerably.

DoctorBadWolf

Dec 25, 2010 14:12:06

That seems reasonable. I really like the idea of the war not really being what the leaders of either side wants, but it happening because of things outside their control.

#10

aardwolf

Feb 05, 2011 13:37:16

netheril is powerful, but not much population, I think they would lose any war of attrition.

#11

pruano

Feb 06, 2011 8:37:12

Just to add a possible sideline, which our two regular groups will be using in an upcoming Team-Up style session:

Shar, to improve the chances of such war, increase her power (due to the ramifications) and keep the other gods busy, is secretly helping Garagus increasing his power (through creation of power places that channel energy to Garagus) so that he can challenge Tempus, win back the War portfolio and basically revert to his Targus (Netherese god of war) persona (kinda like the Lathander/Amaunathor switch).

With the rise to power of the Netherese God of War (under her thumb), Shar can not only better further along a conflict, but also gain support from the weakened but still existing cells of Garagus supporters throughout Toril.

This will have the added effect of destabilizing the power balance in the pantheons, and at least remove some of the spotlight on her, so that she can better proceed with some other schemes.

As of now, in our campaigns, several of the gods (notably Moradin and Tempus) have suspicions on what is going on and will send several champions (the two groups) to destroy one such place of power and gather further proof (the fact that there are Shar sleeper agents within the groups will make things even more interesting).

What do you think?

#12

DoctorBadWolf

Feb 11, 2011 1:16:31

Someone in one of the groups should secretly serve Drasek Riven, and through him be working toward the return of Mask.

But then, I kind of have this thing lately with the return of Mask, and the thought of him coming back as The Shadow Within The Shadow.

#13

pruano

Feb 11, 2011 9:46:30

Someone in one of the groups should secretly serve Drasek Riven, and through him be working toward the return of Mask.

But then, I kind of have this thing lately with the return of Mask, and the thought of him coming back as The Shadow Within The Shadow.

Unfortunately, im at the moment reading the works of Paul Kemp (im at the middle of Dawn of Night), so i dont want any spoilers.

I DO have a player in my group that belonged to a sect of Mask assassins, something that was recently revealed to the rest of the group (they suffered an assassination attempt in Westgate).

On the other group, there is also a PC that has been captured, brainwashed, and made into a Shar sleeper agent.

I know that Mask was actually Shars son, and was either killed or absorved by her.

If you could expand on your points WITHOUT any spoilers, i would appreciate it; may give some more connections with my own campaign, which wont deal directly with the Team-Up event, after it is completed, but i would like some aftermath events to influence my own campaign, instead of being a side-trek (and even if im the one coming with the storyline, im a little short on that point).

#14

DoctorBadWolf

Feb 11, 2011 20:50:02

Oh man, you're in for a treat. Just wait till you get to the twilight war trilogy! So much win.

Anyway, what I can tell you, spoiler free, is that Mask is not forgotten. Like it says in the shadowfell section of the FRCG, Mask's keep in the shadowfell is still there, and still inhabited sometimes by his remaining chosen. The general feeling amongst those who know Mask's nature and were around for the twilight war is that Mask is gone, for now.

I figure, Paul Kemp is either going to ressurect Mask somehow, or a new Mask will be made. Either way, I doubt the god will have much love for dear old mum.

The whole thing leads to servants of Mask being absolutely fantastic characters to play in any campaign that involves going against the Shadovar, or other servants of Shar.

The whole "Shadow within the Shadow" thing comes from a character I made; a shadar-kai assassin/avenger/covenent agent who was born in Shade Enclave, and remembers that city coming out of The Shadow. He served Mask in secret, and even now works toward the goal of returning his god to the world, all hidden behind the mask of a loyal Netherese citizen.

long version:

Show

In secret, and in the heart of Shar's dominion, he served Mask, after the Shadowlord showed him the end result of Shar's will. (that is, the total and irrevocable annihilation of all things. ) As that revelation (most servants of Shar know this, but few are placed momentarily at the brink of it, unable to look away or ignore the horrible magnitude of it) sank in, he "happened" to find proof that the death of his family was not accidental, but instead that they were murdered to initiate his younger sister into the church of Shar. From then, he became a shadow within the eternal night of the Shadovar. His true nature hidden behind a mask in a city full of secrets. If he is not kind, what Sharran is? If he keeps his own council, is Shar not the Lady of Secrets? Hiding in plain sight.