www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4... The church of Asmodeus
www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4... The Thayans
Going to keep adding links as they are released.
www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4... The church of Asmodeus
www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4... The Thayans
Wow... not to my tastes at all.
- Asmodeus and his servants, it's too much Christian mythology pushed into the forefront.
- These Thayans are so different, I don't recognize them; so far away, why do they even bother with Neverwinter?
- Shadovar (hated them since Netheril returned), at war with the Thayans (who cares)... boring.
- Also, the Abolethic Sovereignty is up here? Ugh, no.
Sorry, the more I read, the more it looks like a "pass"...
), much less conquering a region for him.Gonna have to agree with most of your assessment there Joranhast.
One does wonder how a city that was once known as the place where civilization came to live turned into such a cluster of a mess...
Nor mine... I particularly have a hard time swallowing the idea that Tam would ever bother with that former Hosttower mage, Snowmantle... hard to believe he'd trust a non-Mulan with washing his socks (what, lich's can't be civilized?
Gonna have to agree with most of your assessment there Joranhast.
One does wonder how a city that was once known as the place where civilization came to live turned into such a cluster of a mess...
Yeah, that is pretty sad.
Szass Tam is all for looking for magic spots to use for his Dread Rings to achieve godhood; with such an important hot spot that, at the same time, could reinforce his legions, its strategically sound.
The war with the Shadovar (which i also like) is less understandable to me, but the dual fronts on Toril and the Shadowfell are cool and sound reasonable; both sides being great strategists, it may be interesting.
A product i will definitely buy, which finally gives some more answers to the gaps in current FR canon.
The idea of Shade trying to raise up an enclave is awesome. That's practically priority #1 for the Shadovar. Players getting embroiled in that plan reeks of adventure ideas and drama/tension. I’m sure there are several other factions and groups in the Realms who would love to get their hands on an enclave themselves. With the Player Characters in the middle/acting as a pivot point between all these groups and their success or failure in acquiring an enclave…that can’t not be fun (apologies to my middle school English teacher for the double negative).
Asmodeus is a being that’s always intrigued me, especially after Azuth’s fate at his hands. I’ve often wondered how this would go in the Realms and I hope Neverwinter gives us more than just “diabolical devil worshippers doing diabolical, devil worshipy things.” The write up on the Ashmadai doesn’t quite do it for me, but at least the excerpt notes (on page 99) that DMs can have Asmodeus’ plot(s) be whatever he or she wants them to be.
I don’t know all that much about the Aboleths, so I’m curious to see what they’re about.
As for the Thayans and the rest: The changes to Thay are still something I’m getting used to, but I like that there are servitor liches out and about in the world, causing trouble for adventurers to put a stop to. I think there’ some room for the The Eminence of Araunt to play the foil on the Thayan’s (and Cult of the Dragon’s) plans. That’s something I’d want to explore in a Neverwinter game.
Putting a primordial in the heart of Gauntlgrym is brilliant. Lots of power there for different groups to chase. Plus Gauntlgrym is just awesome all by itself and a great way for DMs to break away from city drama for old fashioned dungeon delving.
Overall, the previews leave me feeling excited. I see lots of potential in this book and hope it's something worthy of purchasing for use in the current 3E Realms game I'm running. (My players know next to nothing about Neverwinter, so having a setting book for it would be a big help.)
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Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
[br]Ah, Mordai Vell and Favria, two of my favorite NPCs to design. Good day. []
I wanted to point something out before anyone reads too much into it: yep, Valindra is a level 9 elite, which doesn't necessarily square with her ostensible power in 3.5 (in which she was at least in the teens). The method to this seeming madness is to have her be within reach of characters within this specifically heroic tier campaign. It's an outgrowth of the belief that the mechanics should serve the story, rather than the other way around.
If that explanation doesn't quite cut it, you might think of this as the "heroic tier version" of Valindra, whereas a paragon version of her would be level 19, and an epic version of her would be level 29.
Personally, in my Neverwinter Campaign, I would probably use these mechanics to represent a skirmish with a weakened Valindra, crippled by some ritual or artifact the heroes acquired or even with her attention diverted by her own madness. When her hp drop to 0, she would teleport away to be an enemy in subsequent adventures in the larger Realms.
Cheers
I like it. So looking forward to this book. It will be the first D&D book I will be buying since Feb 2010.
I will address a couple of points here:
- Asmodeus and his servants, it's too much Christian mythology pushed into the forefront.
Christian mythology? Hmm. Yeah, I suppose, but Asmodeus has been around forever in D&D and I think his cosmological background is sufficiently different that I'm not fussed by it. To each his own, I guess.
- These Thayans are so different, I don't recognize them; so far away, why do they even bother with Neverwinter?
Dread ring, as noted.
I particularly have a hard time swallowing the idea that Tam would ever bother with that former Hosttower mage, Snowmantle... hard to believe he'd trust a non-Mulan with washing his socks (what, lich's can't be civilized?
I don't know, powerful, controllable, imminently expendable, imbedded in the region . . . if I were an epic evil archmage (not saying I am), I could do worse than such a servant. And if she blows it, well, she's just an elf anyway (and a mostly rotted one at that). No big loss.
One does wonder how a city that was once known as the place where civilization came to live turned into such a cluster of a mess...
Major cataclysm. See Gauntlgrym, by R. A. Salvatore. He explains it in pretty complete detail.
Cheers
I know it's designed for a heroic tier of play, but I'm fairly certain it's pretty easy to mark it up to mid-paragon (where my group is) and maybe make Valindra a level 19 Solo.
And honestly, this is the first piece of Realmslore that's come out NOT involving a DDI subscription in a long while.
Fair enough about Valindra there Eric. Still don't much like her though. Had you made Arklem Greeth Tam's lackey (well, I want to use a different word there, but I doubt WotC would approve of it), I'd have had an easier time buying it. Seeing him groveling at Tam's feet, licking at his leavings would have been kinda satisfying I think...
As to Cataclysms and Gauntlgrym... don't really read Savatore anymore, so that would explain why I'm unaware of it. Still though, its not a change I agree with particularly. I was quite happy with Neverwinter as a shining bastion of civilization and hope in an otherwise savage North. Had Silverymoon been trashed and devastated, I'd be much happier with the situation.
As to being predisposed towards disliking the book, I probably am to some degree, as I've yet to buy into anything 4e. Though if it includes a really good map, I'd probably buy it anyway. 
I'm sorry it's not to your tastes, guys, though it kinda sounds like you were predisposed to dislike this product even before any previews emerged. :/
Because I'm not fond of most things in the 4E Realms, I can understand how you came to that conclusion, but it's hardly true in my case. I can't speak for Stigger, but he's also always had a fairly open mind in my experience.
After all, I did open up the previews, read them, and think about how they might fit into what I'm currently doing. And in fact, I only said it looks like I might pass on it. These are what, 6 or so pages out of 200+ pages in the whole thing? If I like the majority of the rest, I may buy it. Or not, I don't know for sure yet.
I never trust preview material by itself, because it's 1) a small part of the whole, and 2) not seen in the overall context of the entire work. So please don't judge me as "predisposed to dislike it"... not only is that kind of statement rather dismissive of a potential customer, it makes a lot of negative assumptions about said customer.
And as Stigger said, an amazing map (particularly if it's one by the guy who did the Cormyr map in DDI) would be a big selling point. Regional maps would also be a positive. If Neverwinter has managed to hold on to things like the complex water clocks, glassworks, renouned jewelers, gnomish artificers, and (hidden) fire elementals they were known for... those too would be positives in my book.
Of course the product isn't going to be to everyone's taste, but I do think there's a lot to love here. I admit my own bias, of course: I'd just like to ask that people give it a chance.
Cheers
In general, I'm looking forward to this supplement.
I wonder if the shard bearer from nwn2 is in there.....
Cheers
does he make an appearance???
Though for some reason I do seem to associate those two with each other, though I don't think even I could say why...
As for Asmodeous, he once killed Satan so I don't have a problem such lore having Abrahamic Religous flavour. We all know that Asmodeous was TSRs replacement for Satan in D&D
Still, I'll withhold judgement until I read it. Partly, I think the disgruntlement going on here is the same one about all the changes to the Realms since 4E hit. It sort of polarizes the fan base, but I'm finding 4E Realms to offers a lot more room for DMs and players to make the world their own. I say that as an oldschool FR fan, too. I could happily jump into a pre-Spellplague campaign any day.
As an Eberron fan (and writer), I actually like the heroic tier approach to the Neverwinter guide that I'm seeing. Sure, a 9th level lich isn't a big deal to the movers and shakers of the Realms (Drizzt, Elminster, etc.), but she's extremely powerful to the heroes just starting up. Valindra's the sort of villain you need to topple to start becoming your own mover and shaker of the Realms.
And heck yeah, Asmodeus goes way back in D&D. He's certainly different now, as a god, but his existence still inspires the same sort of adventures and spawns the same sort of minions (devils, cultists, etc.). I can't see complaining about that.
Overall, I'm a big fan of this book. It feels very tight, like it's an advenure module with tons of background fluff and the encounter removed. It feels videogamey to me at some points, but I'm a big fan of the NES / SNES days of videogaming: the dark version of Neverwinter filled with undead, the giant Duergar caves filled with minecarts and lava, the floating circle of rocks above the Shadovar Enclave, etc. It really drives my imagination to find place for encounters that PCs will gravitate towards.
I will confess a little videogamey-ness, which probably has something to do with the NEVERWINTER CRPG in development from Cryptic, but it's also worth noting that fantasy video-gaming came originally from tabletop fantasy games like D&D. Really, we're all one big family, and IMO one shouldn't read too deeply into the imitation one way or another.
I will also mention that I have been led to believe Cryptic used the actual book game design heavily in their work on the game, so I'm pretty stoked about that. Often when a CRPG and a sourcebook and a novel are developed around the same time, it's hard to coordinate everything all at once, and they may not resemble one another all that strongly.
Cheers
Also, picked up the CG on Saturday. Great work, Erik!
One nitpick, via my fiancee.
She would really, really like it if gnomes would get some kind of love somewhere, and we were a bit saddened that a campaign guide set in the north didn't have anything cool (even just fluff) for gnomes.
Cheers
I concur about the gnomes. I suspect they were a victim of the non-core race bias in planning, and I didn't want to put in gnomes just for the sake of doing it. That would feel forced, Y'know? Cheers
I completely appreciate that, man.
Thanks for the response. I think you're probably right, as much as it irks me to think it.
I know it is a heroic tier campaign, but that doesn't mean a few NPCs can be over level 10.
I recall most princes were near Epic in 3rd Ed. Maybe Claribournus got weakened after being assinated, and Tam liked to place a low level crony that he could manipulate more easily, but I felt a few more levels wouldn't have hurt on either.
I plan to look at the Encounters adventure and see how that impacts the region.
Neverwinter sounds like a region that can be anything but static, but I do hope the very first adventure does not turn everything upside down...
Gomez
If you want them to be higher level, it's easy to make them more powerful by adding levels and to-hit bumps.
Cheers