Neverwinter has probably been my favorite place in all of Faerun, being a fan of the Neverwinter Nights series. Thanks to those games, the place developed a life all its own, with people I felt like I knew and cared about. Not just that, but it was a city dedicated to truth, justice and the Faerunian way. I couldn't help but feel proud as I played paladin after paladin, serving the people of the city and being an all-around hero. And then I read some of the changes and find that when the Spellplague hit, both it and Luskan basically fireballed. I wish I could find language that wasn't so strong, but it broke my heart. All those people. The entire city. All gone.
And now I look at the FRPG and find that Luskan seems to have miraculously recovered and is as much of a wretched hive of scum and villainy as it was pre-Spellplague, if not even more so.
Why'd Neverwinter have to get wiped from the face of Toril, while Luskan apparently gets a free pass? It just doesn't feel fair!
Yep it shows up on the map still. It may have been destroyed but even Waterdeep took heavy damage during the Spellplague. It may not have regrown into the same city it was before though. It at least has faired better than Halruaa which is mostly underwater now, and what's left is ruins and forests. Lantan was also destroyed though from a tsunami caused by Returned Abeir not the Spellplague. Unther is gone and supplanted by a part of Abeir as is all of Maztica. There are fates worse than what happened to Neverwinter.
Actually, it took one of the lightest hits from the Spellplague. If not the lightest.
----
Neverwinter is fine. It's character is revealed and everything will be okey-dokey. Use that promise for your campaign.
-Neverwinter never really called out to me or anything, even having played the game.
That was always the problem with the city too, you almost never really see or hear about this or that character hailing form Neverwinter any in Novel. I can't even think of any novels off the top of my head that mention the city. At all.
It's almost as though all of the big shots at WotC told every last novel writer they had "Leave the city of Neverwinter alone. It's only purpose is to give game developers a sandbox to play in." Nevermind the fact that there was Icewind Dale, which has one of the most, if the most famous hero in the Realms, and there's been how many Icewind Dale games? Or how about Buldar's Gate? I can't think of any real big shots off the top of my head, but even that city is on the upswing. And there's been a good number of games based in or around Buldar's Gate.
The city of Neverwinter really needs novels... Seriously...
The city of Neverwinter really needs novels... Seriously...
Not anymore :P
Now meaning 'Right this instance'
Utter meaning 'complete, total, absolute'
Ruin meaning 'a fallen, wrecked, or decayed condition'
I'm sorry, but is the FRCG meant to be an accurate depiction of the campaign world, or something whose accuracy should be compared to a CIA report on Iraqi WMD?
on the otherhand they did say the map wasnt all that accurate right?
Nevermind the fact that there was Icewind Dale, which has one of the most, if the most famous hero in the Realms, and there's been how many Icewind Dale games?
One. With an expansion. So one and a half.
Which does mean there are an infinite number more games in Icewind than in Cormyr or Thay (because both have had 0 games and, mathematically any number times 0 is 0. ;) )
I think Neverwinter was "nuked" to leave it open. They couldn't set it aside like with Sembia in 2e, so they just ignored it. Which means that if any novel or games comes out the fans will flock to it.
But that also means it's this open spot for the fans of the city to rebuild and restore. It's this free space to develop.
Was a far better city, going off of the Volo's Guides, than it was ever depicted as being in the NWN series... the NWN version I could care less about, it was never right to my mind, but the Volo's version was a fantastic place to game in. Hopefully, that'll be the reborn version that springs back from disaster...
Volo's Guides?
If getting nuked is the lightest, then I'd hate to see what the heaviest was!
Actually, I was speaking of Waterdeep at this point.
Poor Port Llast. The Forgotten City of the Sword Coast North. Nobody cares enough to inquire about its fate.
Ohh! Ooh! Tell us more!
Did it last? :P
Port Llast didn't last. Now, let's move on, fast. Before we are attacked by a Rast, that worships Bast, and it hurts us and puts our arms in a cast.
That was always the problem with the city too, you almost never really see or hear about this or that character hailing form Neverwinter any in Novel. I can't even think of any novels off the top of my head that mention the city. At all.
I recall one of the Arilyn Moonblade novels mentioning Neverwinter (Arilyn has been there before).
It's almost as though all of the big shots at WotC told every last novel writer they had "Leave the city of Neverwinter alone. It's only purpose is to give game developers a sandbox to play in." Nevermind the fact that there was Icewind Dale, which has one of the most, if the most famous hero in the Realms, and there's been how many Icewind Dale games? Or how about Buldar's Gate? I can't think of any real big shots off the top of my head, but even that city is on the upswing. And there's been a good number of games based in or around Buldar's Gate.
I think Neverwinter was always meant to be a city that didn't have tons of detail about it, even before Neverwinter Nights was a twinkle in the eye of any game developer.
The city of Neverwinter really needs novels... Seriously...
See above.
I think it was meant to be a place meant for DMs to fill in on their own.Was a far better city, going off of the Volo's Guides, than it was ever depicted as being in the NWN series...
I agree, although I am fond of how the city is depicted in NWN2.
Port Llast didn't last. Now, let's move on, fast. Before we are attacked by a Rast, that worships Bast, and it hurts us and puts our arms in a cast.
:P :D
I agree, although I am fond of how the city is depicted in NWN2.
As am I.
I agree, although I am fond of how the city is depicted in NWN2.
ditto
Port Llast didn't last. Now, let's move on, fast. Before we are attacked by a Rast, that worships Bast, and it hurts us and puts our arms in a cast.
Shall we raise the sail on our mast, until Port Llast is in our past?
I recall one of the Arilyn Moonblade novels mentioning Neverwinter (Arilyn has been there before).
I'm glad someone can think of when Neverwinter was mentioned in novel.
I think Neverwinter was always meant to be a city that didn't have tons of detail about it, even before Neverwinter Nights was a twinkle in the eye of any game developer.
I'm not so sure about that... I think at one point, they might have been willing to try something with it, but it may have quickly turned into a "Why bother?" The city is right between Waterdeep and Buldar's Gate. Chances are, they might have felt that it was just a waste of time.
See above.
*sighs* I know, but then, same could be said for half of the cities/towns in the Realms. I just wish that the city had more to it then just the "Neverwinter Nights" series.
Volo's Guides?
2e books, softcovers, which were narrated by the plucky Volothamp Geddarm... one of the better unreliable narrators to have come out of Mr. Greenwood's mind if you ask me. The series included:
Volo's Guide to All Things Magical
Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast
Volo's Guide to the North (which included Neverwinter, which, by the by, is north of Waterdeep, not between Waterdeep and Baldur's Gate)
Volo's Guide to Cormyr
Volo's Guide to the Dalelands
Volo's Guide to Waterdeep
Volo's Guide to Baldur's Gate II (oddly named, as it had almost nothing to do with the video game)
And a series of articles as I understand it that were in Dragon of a similar name. Last I checked, a few of them were available for free download on WotC's older edition site, so if you're interested, you might take a look at it. Easy enough to get to, just look at the Downloads button on the left of the page, presuming it hasn't changed lately.
I'm glad someone can think of when Neverwinter was mentioned in novel.
Me too.:P
*sighs* I know, but then, same could be said for half of the cities/towns in the Realms. I just wish that the city had more to it then just the "Neverwinter Nights" series.
I know the feeling.
I certainly wouldn't mind a novel set there.By the way, I like the quote in your sig.
Yeah. One of the flaws in the game is that the people wandering the streets are just window-dressing, and you can't enter even half of the buildings in town.
Actually, I don't mind the building thing very much at all. I find it rather silly, and usually pointless, to barge into random houses with impunity (usually, there are no real consequences for doing this). I am totally fine with only being able to go into houses that are important to the game (by that I do include side quests).
Heck, try it in pen-and-paper or play-by-post and you'll annoy the DM before long. :p
You've got to remember, these are computer games, and all these little details are at the mercy of the programmers' time, talent, and computational capacity. A better-made game is preferable to a buggy one that lets you strike up pointless conversations. Every CRPG is like this.
Heck, try it in pen-and-paper or play-by-post and you'll annoy the DM before long. :p
and this is also why some people have the opinion that mmorpgs turn up as live chat rooms in the end.
but you are quite right.
pcrpg npcs and some vrpgs all end up with one liners if they have no need to the plot, or even have a hook for later on.
for instance:
a local beggar might have overheard the two corrupt watchmen talking about getting revenge against the clergy of cyric by going back in time and having a conversation with both the lord of thieves and the lady of illusions.
but i doubt the spellscarred down on the corner of way of the dragon and trademeet allay would of.
One. With an expansion. So one and a half.
Which does mean there are an infinite number more games in Icewind than in Cormyr or Thay (because both have had 0 games and, mathematically any number times 0 is 0. ;) )
I think Neverwinter was "nuked" to leave it open. They couldn't set it aside like with Sembia in 2e, so they just ignored it. Which means that if any novel or games comes out the fans will flock to it.
But that also means it's this open spot for the fans of the city to rebuild and restore. It's this free space to develop.
You're forgetting icewind dale 2, which was a great game.
Loved that game. What a terrific intro it had, lore tied in with very human events - and the overall theme and plot. It was rather linear, but definitely a great game.
I even borrowed the early history it had there for fleshing out my Realms, in parts of the far, far North. All great stuff.
So she summoned Zehir to Toril, and he ate it. :P
Either way, when they were brainstorming citystates of name nations to destroy completely and leave detail-less they probably asked around the office and found out where people hadn't set a campaign then smote that.
I meant the writers of the 4e book. The writers and developers probably had final say on alot of the changes.
-On ALL of the changes. Who else is there, asides for writers and designers? ;)
(And, I don't want to hear things like, you know 'The Suits', and such.)
'The Suits' wouldn't know or care about such changes. They're blameless in this.
-The 'suits argument' is that X generates money, and only looking at the counters, X generates the most money, so the aforementioned writers/designers are mandated to leave X more or less as is, to continue the flow of profit.
Depends on if you're referring to indoor shops, rather than random homes. I'd agree that the lack of shops, in what's supposed to be a thriving community of artisans, does tend to break the suspension of disbelief a bit, for me anyway... Beyond the meager offering of Sand's place anyway, which could be reasonably argued as being quest related anyway.
See, I thought he was referring to PCs not being able to barge into Joe Blow's house as you could in Baldur's Gate 1.
It doesn't feel artificial to not be able to do that, because the vast majority of the PCs I play wouldn't be inclined to just walk into people's houses for no good reason. In fact, it feels more artificial to me if the game encourages me to do that.
I'd also like to point out that if every building was "filled in" (at least in NWN1--not sure about NWN2), it'd make the game a lot slower to run.
Of course, the biggest reason Neverwinter got destroyed and ignored is... none of the writers were fans.
-BRJ is a big fan of the Neverwinter Games IIRC. ;)
18DELTA
You've got to remember, these are computer games, and all these little details are at the mercy of the programmers' time, talent, and computational capacity. A better-made game is preferable to a buggy one that lets you strike up pointless conversations. Every CRPG is like this.
Seconded, on all points.
'The Suits' wouldn't know or care about such changes. They're blameless in this.
Are 'The Suits' just animated clothing, like golems or automatons, or are they some form of sentient undead? Do they actually have bodies, you know, like on the Astral plane or something, or is their only physical form the clothing itself?
Not sure how to stat them up, anyway... how would you describe the power of 'Unmaking?
I like that. :D
Or perhaps they are some form of profiteering Inevitable...
-BRJ is a big fan of the Neverwinter Games IIRC. ;)
Indeed I am a big fan, and my wife even more so. She won an autographed copy of NWN2 Gold Edition at Gen Con by answering some trivia questions about the game. Hell, she knew things about the game I had no idea existed.
Bottom line is that the coastline of the Sword Coast North was ravaged by tidal waves, cyclones, hoarfrost tempests, and other hellish conditions during the Spellplague years. Having said that, if Atari or other 3rd-party licensee wishes to start work on NWN3 you better believe you'll see a rejuvenation of Neverwinter in some form or another. I have no knowledge of such an event taking place, but it just makes good business sense given the popularity of those games.
sides EA doesnt have squat that interests me anymore
kotor;being star wars, is ip of lucasarts, the license has to go through them... not EA.
-Yes, one company or the other (or both) have a license. The confusion (at least on my part) is who has it: one, the other, both, neither, etc.
if kotor 3 was being in housed when it was canned, then LA has it.
-I was talking about Neverwinter Nights, but- wait! There was a Knights of the Old Republic III- or, rather, was supposed to be!?
I have no idea, myself, but I heard somewhere the KotR games were going to be a trilogy.
-I was talking about Neverwinter Nights, but- wait! There was a Knights of the Old Republic III- or, rather, was supposed to be!?
it was a leaked rumor a while back while LA was cleaning house and canned the in house team that was allegedly doing kotor 3.
grain of salt or spice
Anyway, the nuking of Neverwinter makes as much sense as anything else in the Shattered Realms.
Atari have the license for D&D Electronic Products, which includes Neverwinter Nights. Atari could hire Bethesda for a NWN3, if they wanted. Obsidian got the gig for NWN2 because Bioware recommended them when Atari approached them.
Anyway, the nuking of Neverwinter makes as much sense as anything else in the Shattered Realms.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Does that mean that the nuking of Neverwinter makes no sense at all then?
Theres rumors of a KOTOR MMO game.
and did you know the difference between making a good star trek game and a good star wars game.
its easy to make them both, but its real hard to make a ST game that doesnt suck.
in the case of mmos, the rummored kotor mmo, is just that, even if EA owns the company that owns bioware, such a game would still have to go through the lawyers from EA with LA on agreements with what they can and cant do.
on the otherhand, a kotor mmo would still have to get players and keep them.
while it would be easier......
im stopping here, its off topic.
as for the nuking of
Neverwinter, it did make since, there was never a map published for it, and it was mentioned in the blackstaff tower novel, and which has been mention was that its been 100 years since the plague, and they also never said what happened to the city, the land it is sitting on could have been raised which would of destroyed its ports, the city could of been hit by a tidal wave, which would of wrecked it.
i dont see it gone, i however dont see it being a major player anymore either, not that it was ever one.
it does grant leway for a nwn3 on what happened next or during the plague.
How would I incorporate something like that into a character backstory though?
Atari have the license for D&D Electronic Products, which includes Neverwinter Nights. Atari could hire Bethesda for a NWN3, if they wanted. Obsidian got the gig for NWN2 because Bioware recommended them when Atari approached them.
-Why is it all so confusing!!??
Thanks for clearing that up.
Does that mean that the nuking of Neverwinter makes no sense at all then?
Yep.
-Why is it all so confusing!!??
I'll break it down.
Atari, the publisher, own the rights to D&D Electronic Games. They approached Bioware to publish Neverwinter Nights, which they did to great success. When they wanted to make Neverwinter Nights 2, they approached Bioware again to make it, however, Bioware were busy making other games (Namely Jade Empire, Mass Effect and Dragon Age) so they recommended Obsidian Entertainment, who eventually made NWN2.
Now, Atari could approach any design team they want to make Neverwinter Nights 3, as they own the license. I doubt Bioware would do it, as they are currently busy with Dragon Age, Mass Effect 2 and whatever game they are making with Lucasarts (either a Knights of the Old Republic 3 or the MMO).
Basically, Atari own all the cards, and can decide who makes the next NWN. Or who knows, Baldurs Gate 3, of which there are rumours.
I was just there with my man, Bobax, and toked on a hooka.
It's kind of cheap ploy, and it will probably work, but it begs the question: if 3 can get trashed to get you to buy 4, won't they do the same with that to get you to buy 5? What's the point in even investing in your time and imagination in the setting?
Truthfully though, I have the same problem with most of my (formerly) favorite comic book characters
...also, remember at the end of NWN1 OC in the tunnels when you run into the alternate Faerun Aribeth who helps you? You could just look at this whole Spellplague/Destruction-of-Neverwinter things as something that happened in one of those OTHER Faeruns.
Good point, although I shall nitpick and say that I didn't think those alternate worlds were necessarily alternate versions of Faerun. They seemed quite different.
that left an odd taste in the mouth, considering they were never seperate previous to 4e, but if we're looking for straws to grasp...
Bottom line is that the coastline of the Sword Coast North was ravaged by tidal waves, cyclones, hoarfrost...
Okay, Auril might not be very nice...
But there's no reason to go around calling her names. :P
lack of content and a few other things.
Hmmm. Not sure what turned you folks off from MMOs but I think they're fun as hell (well, EverQuest at least). I loved KotoR 1 and 2 so I'm definitely looking forward to this game.
1. Monthly fees
2. Ignorant people who can't speak proper English
3. The lack of a driving storyline
1. Monthly fees
2. Ignorant people who can't speak proper English
3. The lack of a driving storyline
2. Should not be up there...that falls onto the pro list of MMOs...because you can camp.
Hmmm. Not sure what turned you folks off from MMOs but I think they're fun as hell (well, EverQuest at least). I loved KotoR 1 and 2 so I'm definitely looking forward to this game.
Overall, I'm curious mostly about the setting for the game. It should prove interesting enough to explore this vaguely detailed period of SW history. And I'm curious to see more about this so-called "Sith Empire."
As for actually being involved with MMOs, for me at least, it's just the issue of having enough free time available to play them. I just don't have much time for them these days... and I'm already devoted to getting into Stargate Worlds once that starts. Though, with the apparent failure of the Myst Online Restoration Experiment, I *may* have room for another MMO eventually. :P
That being said, I own pretty much all of the BG/IWD/NWN saga, and will flat out refuse to purchase said product if it is 4e Realms.
Or an MMO. I played WoW for 3 years, and while it was a fun game, the lack of content (you can only level so many characters) other than pvp was a deciding factor to quit, as well as the general time commitment.
Thanks Lord Karsus. I'm curious to see how Neverwinter might evolve as its rebuilt.
-Well, if Neverwinter Nights 3 is a MMORPG, there you go. Plenty of people, from all over the world, working to rebuild the city. Neverwinter Nights 3: The Clean Up.
There didn't appear to be any temples to Sune or Oghma from what I saw. There was a temple of Lathander, but that was it other than the whole Temple of Tyr shtick.
umm yes there is a temple to oghma in neverwinter, however in either of the games it never shows up.
it is there however, and listed in the canon materiel of previous editions.
Interesting... pity I'm not that fond of MMOs.
Yeah, that style of game doesn't appeal to me. Too bad, because I like the KotOR millieu.
Overall, I'm curious mostly about the setting for the game. It should prove interesting enough to explore this vaguely detailed period of SW history. And I'm curious to see more about this so-called "Sith Empire."
Sage, did you play the single player KotOR games?
And the gardens of Sune in the city are quite reknowned, as mentioned in 2e's Faiths and Avatars. Don't even get me started on how far that series of games deviated from P&P lore about it... NWN1 was worse by a good degree, but NWN2 still got quite a bit wrong.
Heh, no kidding.
Those gardens must be a sight to see, though! One more reason to like Neverwinter.
Heh, no kidding.
Those gardens must be a sight to see, though! One more reason to like Neverwinter.
Shame that those gardens were probably incinerated.
Shame that those gardens were probably incinerated.
Not if I have anything to say about it.
Not if I have anything to say about it.
Now there is a question, sir. Do you have any say in the matter?
Now there is a question, sir. Do you have any say in the matter?
Oh I'm sure I can drop a reference to it in some future article. It's just a matter of when and where
Oh I'm sure I can drop a reference to it in some future article. It's just a matter of when and where
If at all possible, and if you are asking, I would personally prefer you having the chance to do so before another author lets it slip that they have gone up in smoke and dragonfire :D .
Shame that those gardens were probably incinerated.
Not in my Realms.;)
With Thay overthrown and the Mulan culture pretty much destroyed most enclaves opened up membership to others, at least to a degree. Some enclaves are still purely Mulan while others bear little resemblence to the Thayan origins of the organization. Also most enclaves are now self-contained and have no or little contact with other enclaves.
I think a lot of it depends on how big the enclave is and how easily they can sustain viable numbers of pure Mulans. As for the shaved heads most probably gave up that tradition to blend in better with the cultures around them.
Well Rashemen *is* leading in the Backdrop poll right now...
No offense, but how do you know all this stuff?
!18DELTA ;)
I recall myself thinking a while back though, 'Iakhovas, Iakhovas... Damn why does that name seem to ring a bell?'
On topic - if canon isn't to your liking, and if we can be trusted to still own some creativity ourselves, well, you hear where I'm going. In our game the Spellplague isn't happening anytime soon to say the least, and the large hole in the Shaar was there already before 4th Edition (no kidding - that was our montly dose of lulz in one day when we heard that news)...
That was mostly tradition, not a requisite. Of course they do need to shave their heads at some point to make the tattooing possible, its not technically necessary to keep it that way, just that most do. As to accepting non-humans, a bit odd, considering it was fairly rare to find any non-ethnic Mulan humans among them prior to 4e, much less non-humans period.
It is not rare, though they would not be in the capacity as equals. There was a huge Gnoll population that was utilized.
After Szass did his ploy a lot of the enclaves abroad were destroyed, though some survived and still function abroad. They are functioning majorly in the Sea of Fallen Stars as well as the Moonsea region.
The changes have made some places easier within reach for Thay, while others will be more difficult. It would be interesting to see how Szass and the Artificers face off.
As far as Neverwinter goes, I’d love to write an article on the city but I suspect that it would be off limits because of the computer games set there. But frankly I’m more keen on Port Llast. It seems to be the forgotten city of the Sword Coast North.
And to Iakhovas, disparage not your own name, lest I need smote you for blasphemies against yourself. Or something like that... :D
Seriously though, Port Llast would be good... It might be interesting to see a bit about its rise as the capital of a kingdom to its decline into relative obscurity. Though I'd probably say Leilon was more forgotten than Port Llast, since at least its existance was acknowledged recently, while Leilon was ignored entirely, despite being located pretty much in the middle of the action for NWN2.
Yeah, Zousha_Omenohu's cute like that...
I recall myself thinking a while back though, 'Iakhovas, Iakhovas... Damn why does that name seem to ring a bell?'
On topic - if canon isn't to your liking, and if we can be trusted to still own some creativity ourselves, well, you hear where I'm going. In our game the Spellplague isn't happening anytime soon to say the least, and the large hole in the Shaar was there already before 4th Edition (no kidding - that was our montly dose of lulz in one day when we heard that news)...
Pippa! Hi!
As far as Neverwinter goes, I’d love to write an article on the city but I suspect that it would be off limits because of the computer games set there.
-So Neverwinter was left bare in the book because of the Computer Game? ;)
18DELTA
-So Neverwinter was left bare in the book because of the Computer Game? ;)
Well, Baldur's Gate got a descent writeup in the FRCG so...
2. Ignorant people who can't speak proper English
I resent that!
Well, Baldur's Gate got a descent writeup in the FRCG so...
-We have a shifty one here I see!
-Thanks BR.J! ;)
18DELTA :D
I resent that!
I'm not talking about people who speak English as a second language. I'm talking about people who claim to be "uber l33t!" and don't laugh, but "ROFLMAO!" and refer to anyone who tells them to talk in a way people understand as a "n00b!"
I. Hate. Leetspeak. With a passion.
I resent that!
-Ody thats all part of your charm! :P
18DELTA :D
-Ody thats all part of your charm! :P
18DELTA :D
Brother, you ain't kidding
In AIT my nickname was "Sexy" (no joke, not my idea either), I was my unit "sex symbol" ..... good times
Don't worry you weren't the targeted audience ;) (BTW I was just kidding with the resentment, you are cool in my book)
Brother, you ain't kidding
In AIT my nickname was "Sexy" (no joke, not my idea either), I was my unit "sex symbol" ..... good times
-Hey soldier in AIT you shouldn't have time to even be thinking about sex!
I hope there were some Females in your AIT Class if not...
:embarrass 18DELTA ;) :P :D
*avoids comments about Ody bending over for potential abuse*
:D
!18DELTA
-Hey soldier in AIT you shouldn't have time to even be thinking about sex!
18DELTA ;) :P :D
50% of the briggade were females (actual number not making it up)
*bites tongue very hard*
*avoids comments about Ody bending over for potential abuse*
:D
18DELTA :coolcthul
Neverwinter has seen conflict over the years, and I believe does include females in their military, uses swords, and probably has little difficulty with accepting alternative sexualities given the Sunite presence in the city... so yeah, it all has something to do with Neverwinter, albeit indirectly. ;)
-:embarrass
18DELTA ;)
becase, ya know... they have the same slogan the Spartans did...
"They never leave their buddy's behind" :P
Anyhow - Neverwinter
Never played the FG's, so i culd care less about the place.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=16996272&postcount=62
Bottom line is that the coastline of the Sword Coast North was ravaged by tidal waves, cyclones, hoarfrost tempests, and other hellish conditions during the Spellplague years. Having said that, if Atari or other 3rd-party licensee wishes to start work on NWN3 you better believe you'll see a rejuvenation of Neverwinter in some form or another. I have no knowledge of such an event taking place, but it just makes good business sense given the popularity of those games.
-Brian R. James
See, what bugs me is that this is the first we've heard about that. You'd think the Waterdeep or Luskan entries would mention "tidal waves, cyclones, hoarfrost tempests, and other hellish conditions". But both survived relatively intact. Even Luskan (almost abandoned due to "decades of social
unrest and rampant crime") doesn't sound too physically damaged.
Yet we're lead to believe that Neverwinter (between both and much farther inland) was all but wiped off the map.
This is why I hate those books. All the good information I've learned from Message Boards or interviews and generally reading between the lines (such as Elminster's current condition) while the book I paid good money for just feeds me a bunch of adventure hooks I'll be ignoring and blank holes to be filled with books.
Now we have to wait for the almost imaginable NWN3 to find out if its still there.
Sure, NWN2 is just releasing its 2nd expansion so it'll be a long time before we even see NWN3.
Heck, a designer from Obsidian (who did NWN2) mentions what they'd do:
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Rebuild-A-City-In-Neverwinter-Nights-3-12701.html
Since it sounds fairly hypothetical it's a good bet they haven't even started. It was 4 years between the original NWN and NWN2 and development time for video games isn't getting any shorter as the expected quality increases. It might easily be 2013 or 2014 before anything would be released. Heck, we might be looking at 5e by then and more changes to the Realms.
See, what bugs me is that this is the first we've heard about that. You'd think the Waterdeep or Luskan entries would mention "tidal waves, cyclones, hoarfrost tempests, and other hellish conditions". But both survived relatively intact. Even Luskan (almost abandoned due to "decades of social
unrest and rampant crime") doesn't sound too physically damaged.
Yet we're lead to believe that Neverwinter (between both and much farther inland) was all but wiped off the map.
I cannot speak for Luskan, but I did write the section on Waterdeep. I was asked to focus on the here and now, and not spend much time explaining what occurred during the Spellplague years. Waterdeep *did* suffer many of the same calamities as Neverwinter but the City of Splendors had better defenses in place (both magical and mundane).
So all of Tyr's influence suddenly dissapears when he dies then? The presence of Tyr's influence seemed pretty strong in Neverwinter in the game, and you never heard of Sunites during the game.
Faiths and Avatars would seem to disagree with you... don't recall the Halls of Justice being mentioned in that book, while the gardens of Neverwinter are mentioned in the major centers of worship for Sune's entry, with the implication that only recently were they outstripped by the temple in Waterdeep, with the further hint that they were on equal footing with the Sembian temples. Certainly the temple of Tyr was powerful in the city governance, but that doesn't necessarily imply that they are powerful in the lives of most citizens.
Though perhaps of some interest is that Neverwinter was rather notable for not having anything even remotely like the Beggar's Nest mentioned in NWN1, much less the lawlessness hinted at in NWN2... rather it was solidly portrayed in multiple sourcebooks as one of the most refined and civilized places in Faerun, to the point that it is compared extremely favorably by most who trade there as being far more civilized than the so called 'civilized' cities of the south in Amn or Calimshan who, as the sage Mellomir once said, "have achieved decadence without the need for passing through civilization first.", as was referred to in the pages of Volo's Guide to the North as 'perhaps the most cosmopolitan city in Faerun'. Not really the place that was portrayed in either NWN game, eh? ;)
While I can see why they included the whole Wailing Death reference, it doesn't make much sense in light of the description of its virulence for the city to even be around as much beyond a place like Highcliff perhaps. Sane people don't look at a place just decimated by one of the worst modern plagues around as a good place to move to, especially in a world with a goddess like Talona being known to most of the populace. First thought on most of their minds is more like "OMFG, that place is cursed, screw that!"
it happened. The Grand History of the Realms time line will have to be updated.
that blows, no timeline in the frcs...
It leaves a bad taste in my mouth knowing that the games I enjoy are non-canon. I feel dirty when I enjoy something that violates something's canon.
I officially declare you situated on the Lawful axis of moral alignment.
Now all I need to know to adequately pin-point your exact location is whether you'd rather bake pies for the poor or place some puppet of yours on a throne somewhere.
Sorry, will stop derailing thread now.
Oh, and as to pies... I'd call that evil myself, so lawful evil it is for you. Were you truly goodly, you'd be teaching the poor to bake their own pies, rather than making them rely on your charity... teaching a man to fish and all that... :P :D
Why would it leave a bad taste in the mouth? Personally, I find I tend to favor the non-canon sorts more than canon ones... leaves more room for stylistic interpretation really, so that the canon does not get in the way of the story that the game's creators want to tell. Much more liberating when you can discard most of it in favor of your own 'vision' of things... kinda like what we're supposed to be doing in our games at home really. ;)
Amen to that.
Oh, and as to pies... I'd call that evil myself, so lawful evil it is for you. Were you truly goodly, you'd be teaching the poor to bake their own pies, rather than making them rely on your charity... teaching a man to fish and all that... :P :D
Haha! Whoah, the way you bend things around like that... sounds like you're a natural! Accept me under your tutelage, master!
DM: Ok, Roll.
Stigg: 20!
Neverwinter has seen conflict over the years, and I believe does include females in their military, uses swords, and probably has little difficulty with accepting alternative sexualities given the Sunite presence in the city... so yeah, it all has something to do with Neverwinter, albeit indirectly. ;)
:P
18DELTA ;)
As to what it has to do with Neverwinter, there was talk of pies, which are known to be made in Neverwinter by several establishments, going by Volo's Guide to the North, and tyranny is none too welcome in the City of Skilled Hands, so Z's not going with them is indeed within the spirit of Neverwinter, which is portrayed as firmly against tyranny in both canon and RPG supplements. Luminosity can indeed be tied in with Neverwinter, since they are rather famous for those wonderful moving lampshade devices they craft in the city. Hands could even be tied in, given that Neverwintan waterclocks, the signature artifice of the city, do indeed probably have hands on their faces to indicate the time... which also ties in with the fish subject briefly touched upon, since fish do indeed live in water, and fishing is an industry within the city.
So, LK was indeed incorrect, since the above had quite a bit to do with Neverwinter if one simply put a bit of thought into it.
That's...kind of a stretch. Can you provide textual evidence to support those claims?(BTW Zoush' my man, did I ever tell you my - Pippa's - second nickname is 'Pifflepie'?)
18DELTA ;)
So all of Tyr's influence suddenly dissapears when he dies then? The presence of Tyr's influence seemed pretty strong in Neverwinter in the game, and you never heard of Sunites during the game.
That just means the game designers chose to focus on Tyr. Just because they didn't mention Sune doesn't mean she has no influence whatsoever in Neverwinter.
The games by themselves aren't "official" sources of information, anyway.
Where would Neverwinter stand on the whole Netheril issue then?
I...guess Neverwinter wouldn't be fond of Netheril, because of their expansionist policies if nothing else. Could you be more specific?
18DELTA (Chosen of Cyric) :D
Neverwinter is displayed on the in-book maps of Waterdeep, both in the CG and the PG. Does this mean that Neverwinter is now a vassal state of Waterdeep? Does it mean that a character from Neverwinter is eligible for the Waterdeep regional benefit? What implications would Neverwinter being Waterdeep's vassal have?
As to whether or not you want to do that in your own games, there's nothing stopping you certainly. The implications of that... given Neverwinter's current status as being mostly destroyed, well, probably it would be a drain on Waterdeep's economy to a certain extent if its being rebuilt, and probably militarily presuming Waterdhavians are needed to stand guard over the ruins during reconstruction, since its presumable that the Graycloaks were weakened to the point of effective disbanding. Still probably wouldn't really imply a vassal state relationship though, more of one ally coming to the aid of another. Not being entirely conversant with the current political leadership of Waterdeep though, much of what I'm saying relies on the premise of Waterdeep's leadership still being mostly goodly, and not inclined to be expansionistic in its outlook towards neighbors.
As to the regional benefit... doubtful would be my answer. While Neverwinter was extremely cosmopolitan, given its effective destruction, I doubt there would be enough left to really justify the benefits of what's probably a very urban outlook and benefit.
My thoughts on the matter anyway.
I mean, really, without using Nasher as a basis for pondering, we could easily come up with something like the city being taken over by a metallic dragon, who got drunk one night, had a few nightmares, and who tossed and turned in his sleep as a result, which is why the city got destroyed, and who accidentally ate most of the populace in his quasi-somnambulatory state. Or maybe the Great Gnome Unrising of 1399, which saw gnomish undead from ruined Doblunde rising up under the control of their dracolich master to decimate the city and its population. Maybe the elves staged a western resurgence and retook their former city, only to have the Shades attack it for fear of opening a new front in the cold war.
It comes down to you being able to make up pretty much anything you like if you're going to worry about Nasher being long dead with no other basis to draw conclusions from.
So in other words we're back where we started. We don't know anything about what went on in Neverwinter and until something's written about it we probably never will.
-Which in all proablility is a good thing. Because if WotC did detail it. Half the fans would
and the other half would be 
.Then again with no current info. Half the fans are and the other half is . -I have come to realize that Wizards is "Darned if they Do and Darned if they Don't". Something else I have noticed is that alot of people have been whinning and crying about Wizards direction with the Realm for around 8 years now. It started around the time the "Old Guard of TSR and The Realms" left Wizards for other pastures in life. So we will not be happy no matter what Wizards does with the Realms. Just my observation of what's been going on.
18DELTA (Chosen of Cyric)
wotc stepped on toes
So in other words we're back where we started. We don't know anything about what went on in Neverwinter and until something's written about it we probably never will.
What were you expecting if not that? Seriously, at this point, everything is utter speculation and crystal-gazing, as nothing really exists about the city in its 4e incarnation, beyond it being severely screwed over in the Spellplague. So, you're left with one of two choices. Ignore its existance until something is written, or come up with something on your own and ignore anything written about it later. As we've already gotten the only two official sourcebooks they're supposed to be producing for the entire edition, you've pretty much got free reign to do whatever you want to it. What happens with DDI only matters if you actually subscribe to it.
But moving right along, gods help me, I'm falling into agreement with Delta here. No matter what WotC does, they're screwed and being crucified by somebody...
But moving right along, gods help me, I'm falling into agreement with Delta here.
But, but, he's a Cyricst!!!!18DELTA (Chosen of Cyric) :whatsthis
As to why its a big deal, well, if they're screwed no matter what they do, then it doesn't really matter what they do, since someone is going to complain anyway. If they realized that, it was probably very liberating, and gave them a good enough reason to do whatever they wanted to do, since they didn't really have a good reason not to... if you followed the train of thought there, not sure I worded that coherently.
:P Pretty much people will complaine that it's not realmsy enough. It's too generic. They just slapped the FR Logo on it to make it a Realms article ad nuseum. It's like how Burger King Flame Broil's there hamburgers and people complaining about the flame broiling. 
18DELTA (Chosen of Cyric!):evillaugh
Though I do recall several occassions where people did exactly that, complaining that one fast food company wasn't more like another they preferred... like El Pollo Loco and KFC being compared, which just left me with a WTF feeling.
Or the Moonstone Mask (Volo's version, not the CRPG) being compared with a dockside Westgate clip-joint festhall... ;)
As to why its a big deal, well, if they're screwed no matter what they do, then it doesn't really matter what they do, since someone is going to complain anyway. If they realized that, it was probably very liberating, and gave them a good enough reason to do whatever they wanted to do, since they didn't really have a good reason not to... if you followed the train of thought there, not sure I worded that coherently.
I'm following you.
If it's the case that the designers at WotC only just realized that they can't please everyone, then I have to wonder what the heck took them so long. I mean, the greatest writer who ever lived couldn't please everyone. I thought that was just common sense, I guess.I prefer the chicken analogy, oh disciple of the cowardly god... you should have no difficulty in finding nuts in close proximity ad nauseam given your... faith. :P ;)
Though I do recall several occassions where people did exactly that, complaining that one fast food company wasn't more like another they preferred... like El Pollo Loco and KFC being compared, which just left me with a WTF feeling.
Or the Moonstone Mask (Volo's version, not the CRPG) being compared with a dockside Westgate clip-joint festhall... ;)
-
:D It's like TSR=KFC, and Popeyes Chicken=WotC. Two different Companies basically the same product if ya know what I mean! :D 18DELTA (
that doesn't serve Cyric!) -
18DELTA (
Hmm not sure I'd equate WotC with Popeyes...
Maybe TSR=KFC pre-buy out, WotC=KFC post buy-out (ala KFC/Taco Bell/Pizza Hut/A&W/etc.)
While I like the idea of a combo KFC/A&W I've never forgiven the buy-out for removing the crispy fries that KFC used to have. At least they learned their lesson and brought back the buttermilk biscuits.
Hmm not sure I'd equate WotC with Popeyes...
Maybe TSR=KFC pre-buy out, WotC=KFC post buy-out (ala KFC/Taco Bell/Pizza Hut/A&W/etc.)
While I like the idea of a combo KFC/A&W I've never forgiven the buy-out for removing the crispy fries that KFC used to have. At least they learned their lesson and brought back the buttermilk biscuits.
-See that a poster with a sense of humor!
May Cyric Bless thee with His Divine Light! ;) 18DELTA (Preaching the Words of Cyric!) :D
I'm following you.
Well, consider how many people didn't seem to think you could mix feats or PrC's or whatever across settings in home games... despite nothing saying that it couldn't be done, or a large brutish WotC enforcer standing over the gaming table with a ruler in hand waiting to smack a DM or player who reached for the wrong book...
Or the common sense that might be involved in understanding that maybe one's thoughts aren't objective truth and that others might have had different experiences...
Or the common sense that might be involved in realizing that you didn't need a doctorate in Realmslore just to play a game in an imaginary setting...
If you take my meaning there. ;) :D
Oh, and :P @ Delta, just because you're a weirdo Cyricist freakjob who needs to be beaten with a semi-putrefying chicken. ;) :D
18DELTA (Awaiting his beating by Stigger! Cyric be Praised.) ;) :P :D
WHAT DOES ALL THIS HAVE TO DO WITH NEVERWINTER?!
nothing and I still am mad they destroyed this great city
WHAT DOES ALL THIS HAVE TO DO WITH NEVERWINTER?!
Since you asked...
Debate of such topics certainly ties in with the presence of a fairly significant temple of Oghma as exists in Neverwinter, where they will certain engage in debate over what the nature of truth might be, an awfully important topic really for a clergy charged with maintaining the veracity of the knowledge stored within their temples as best they possibly can.
Chickens, well, I've already established how chickens can indeed relate to Neverwinter, so I'll not bother with that one again. Buttermilk biscuits also are likely made in the city by some establishments, so that ties in as well, and I believe one of the taverns was actually noted as serving them, though I'm not terribly sure on that one, as I don't have the book to hand currently... might have been the Burning Wizard (or something like that) tavern.
Beating and Loviater would tie more in with Leilon, to the south of Neverwinter, since a long forgotten and ruined temple to that fell goddess still exists in that town, complete with its own temple-affiliated undead, who are know to occassionally attack folks under certain conditions, though the nature of the threat is now widely known to most folks in the Realms.
Probably missed some stuff there you might have been wondering how it related, so let me know if there's anything you're curious about. ;)
Oh, yes, and @ Delta... I'm just not feeling the sincerity. You're gonna have to do better than that.
Since you asked...
Debate of such topics certainly ties in with the presence of a fairly significant temple of Oghma as exists in Neverwinter, where they will certain engage in debate over what the nature of truth might be, an awfully important topic really for a clergy charged with maintaining the veracity of the knowledge stored within their temples as best they possibly can.
Chickens, well, I've already established how chickens can indeed relate to Neverwinter, so I'll not bother with that one again. Buttermilk biscuits also are likely made in the city by some establishments, so that ties in as well, and I believe one of the taverns was actually noted as serving them, though I'm not terribly sure on that one, as I don't have the book to hand currently... might have been the Burning Wizard (or something like that) tavern.
Beating and Loviater would tie more in with Leilon, to the south of Neverwinter, since a long forgotten and ruined temple to that fell goddess still exists in that town, complete with its own temple-affiliated undead, who are know to occassionally attack folks under certain conditions, though the nature of the threat is now widely known to most folks in the Realms.
Probably missed some stuff there you might have been wondering how it related, so let me know if there's anything you're curious about. ;)
Oh, yes, and @ Delta... I'm just not feeling the sincerity. You're gonna have to do better than that.
You just made my day StiggDespite the language in the FRCS, rest assured that Neverwinter's bleak days are in the past and it too will enjoy a period of recovery.
Ahhh, here it was. It was the #2 post in this thread. So BRJs comments here make it seem there will be some new treatment about Neverwinter at some point.
*ducks, runs*
:D
Well, consider how many people didn't seem to think you could mix feats or PrC's or whatever across settings in home games... despite nothing saying that it couldn't be done, or a large brutish WotC enforcer standing over the gaming table with a ruler in hand waiting to smack a DM or player who reached for the wrong book...
Or the common sense that might be involved in understanding that maybe one's thoughts aren't objective truth and that others might have had different experiences...
Or the common sense that might be involved in realizing that you didn't need a doctorate in Realmslore just to play a game in an imaginary setting...
If you take my meaning there. ;) :D
I do.
In a way, Zousha my bub, Neverwinter lives on in all of us, each time in its own way, be it avant- or après-4th edition. Things depend on how much you want to be a slave (or, more positive: stay true) to publiced material. While I like what I read about FR lore (when I get the chance to read it, my SO and DM is holding back quite a bit of sourcebooks to make sure I don't spoil my own fun), I have no qualms when it comes to stretching/changing/omitting things.
A paladinic order or Bahamut in Cimbar? While a red dragon is sceptenar? Now there's an exercise for one's creativity-muscles.
Shame Cimbar got nuked too.
Not necessarily, if you catch my drift.
I don't.
Was getting at the idea that common sense is in short supply these days. And after reading that 'vision' thread of the death of Mystra, shows no sign of increasing much any time soon if her death scene is any indication of the common sense in operation at WotC at the moment...
Really, when it comes down to it, we don't really need WotC to tell us how the Realms evolve and change... we don't need the published books, we don't really need anything beyond maybe the FRCS/FRCG. We are, ultimately, free to do whatever we like with the Realms once we have the urge to do so, within the confines of our own campaigns anyway. If you want to crash-land a star destroyer on top of Zhentil Keep, and have the stormtroopers swear loyalty to Bane, nothing is stopping you. If you want to introduce warforged into the setting and decide that it should be done by elves from Evereska, there's nothing stopping you. If you want to turn the whole setting into a monotheistic society ruled over by Eldath, who's revealed to actually be a giant wood duck, there's nothing stopping you. The only real limits the Realms have are the ones you place upon them, for whatever reason. So long as the changes make sense to you and your group, do whatever the hells you feel like, and everyone else be damned.
But...if you violate canon, then aren't you roleplaying it wrong?
Now I start getting the feeling you are pulling one on us here.
The Levellers, come to our aide!
'There is only one good way of life, and thaaa-hat's your own that's your own that's your own!'
While I can see it's naturally, better if all the people at the gaming table have the same version of the realms in mind while they're playing, 'good roleplay' is in the first place coming from within your persona (personality etc), and only second to his roots and knowledge of the area. Besides, how much does anyone really know about the world he's living in? "Whaddaya mean, 'now that Neverwinter's destroyed'? My aunt lives there for Sune's sake!"
...I can play a very convincing European should the DM drop me in Minesota... or Kuala Lumpur.
Also, I believe there's always one town, backwater village or certain array of circumstances toback up your unlikely class-race-patron deity combo's, or far-fetched backstory. Even without these, the Realms is still full of sandboxes as is. It 'd never hurt if you ask the DM in advance how much he has the spellplague affecting the land though, I guess.
But...if you violate canon, then aren't you roleplaying it wrong?
Part of me agrees with the other folks that you are just playing games now. On the small chance you are not :Canon can be a Crutch. It is something that one can use to help play the game but it is not essential and can really screw up campaigns if one follows it 100% all of the time. Some folks do not feel right about straying from it or ignoring it but that is a personal issue. I was like that once. I got better though. ;)
There is plenty of online material that we do not really need print material of FR stuff as much anymore with the net. We already have the basic outline with 20 years of material, use your imagination to fill out the rest.
Some folks do not feel right about straying from it or ignoring it but that is a personal issue.
I'm one of those "folks".
What happens if you party does something that significantly alters something famous, like help overthrow a ruler, destroy an organisation main stronghold, kill one of the 'famous' npc's, help an army invade and conquer another country...
And then a book comes out that says so and so are actually still doing great, and playing a significant role in FR goings-on at the time?
Well then you are "bound" by canon then I guess so you are at the mercy of the designers ideas instead of your imagination. Not much left to say then.
Too true. Hope you enjoy the developments.
If exposed to things deviating from canon often enough, you'll get used to it.
What happens if you party does something that significantly alters something famous, like help overthrow a ruler, destroy an organisation main stronghold, kill one of the 'famous' npc's, help an army invade and conquer another country...
And then a book comes out that says so and so are actually still doing great, and playing a significant role in FR goings-on at the time?
I feel dirty, like I broke the law.
18DELTA (The Chosen of Cyric that plans on Preaching the Glories of Cyric to those poor blind folks. They need Cyric!) :embarrass
-So in what books is Neverwinter Detailed in?
18DELTA (The Chosen of Cyric that needs to find a less sucky deity) :embarrass
Volo's Guide to the North is the one I've seen most of the others that cover the city based upon in most respects, so if you have that, you don't really need the others for fluff. Smaller sources could be found in other sources like Volo's Guide to All Things Magical, Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue, Champions of Valor, Pages from the Mages, and Prayers from the Faithful, most of which were fairly trivial in detail, and not really obvious as they were scattered throughout, here and there.
-So in what books is Neverwinter Detailed in?
18DELTA (The Chosen of Cyric that plans on Preaching the Glories of Cyric to those poor blind folks. They need Cyric!) :embarrass
Volo's Guide to the North, The North box set, and The Savager Frontier are pretty much it... since Neverwinter has been one of the cities in the Realms that hasn't received a great deal of attention in the Realmslore. See the 1e and 2e FR boxed sets as well.
Some elements of the computer game's Neverwinter are drawn from Volo's Guide to the North, but its layout and many of its details contradict the book.
Also keep in mind that a lot of this stuff is under copyright, and can't be just copied and pasted without upsetting the moderators around here.
I can't look at them anymore though. Apparently my 45 day trial period for WinZip is up.
Looked at Volo's Guide. All I can say is DAMN! Did Bioware and Obsidian ever get it wrong!
I can't look at them anymore though. Apparently my 45 day trial period for WinZip is up.
-And because they got it wrong, so can you. Its ok it is about having fun. :D
-Cool I got those sources in one form or an other. I was trying to get this thread back on topic. I think by Cyric's Grace we were successful.
18DELTA (The Chosen of Cyric, the funnest God in the Realms ever!) ;)
I can see there is the choice you have to make for yourself when you decide to play Forgotten Realms instead of 'just d&d'. Either you immerse yourself in the existing lore of FR, or you build your own from the ground up. Either is interesting of course, but if you want to be able to actually play a published setting you have to realise that the 'rules' are actually, in your gaming circle, just guidelines (thank you captain Barbosa). It's like xeroxing a world and adding stuff of your own (like, PC's and their accomplishments).
BTW 18DELTA, if Cyric is so great, then why didn't he get the girl?
Just relax, breathe, and have fun.;)
You know, that kinda does help.
BTW 18DELTA, if Cyric is so great, then why didn't he get the girl?
I thought he did get the girl. Right on the skull with her servant's staff.
I thought he did get the girl. Right on the skull with her servant's staff.
:D
I thought he did get the girl. Right on the skull with her servant's staff.
Touché mon cher.
(I actually had to read that other thread first before I knew what you meant... I wonder what Cyric said when he did it. I sense a spiffy one-liner would be apropriate... In the time between dealing the blow and Dweomerheart going kaboom of course.)
I thought he did get the girl. Right on the skull with her servant's staff.
-You are very wise. Cyric smiles upon thee!
18DELTA (Chosen of the One who did get the "Girl". Cyric may he be forever praised!) :bounce:
:bounce: I'm one of those "folks".
That's fine, just don't be surprised when other people don't feel the same way, and don't think there's anything at all wrong with deviating from "canon".
"Isn't that wrong?"
"Heck no" is the only answer you'll hear from me.
18DELTA (The Chosen One of Cyric.)
Despite the language in the FRCS, rest assured that Neverwinter's bleak days are in the past and it too will enjoy a period of recovery.
Here it is! I have been looking for this quote.
Despite the language in the FRCS, rest assured that Neverwinter's bleak days are in the past and it too will enjoy a period of recovery.
Here it is! I have been looking for this quote.
And may the Prince of Lies bless you for your success, my friend!
It's your game... play it as you see fit.
Well, the reason I was concerned was because the text indicated that what happened to the two cities was similar to the atomic bomb, which is disturbing, to say the least.
it's all good, it's been over 100 years since the spell plauge. i lived in Hiroshima for a few years, and despite ACTUALLY having gotten nuked only in '45 there's a million and a half people there, and it's a city dedicated to peace/internationalism, and the largest city in south japan.
you could use that as inspiration? sort of a bastion of the north?
Even if the city was devastated in Spellplague years- and given that the Blue Fire didn't rly affect the North- there might have been bigtime POLITICAL upheaval; civil wars wotnot- after all, Nasher wasn't going to live forever. Maybe the Many Starred Cloak (The School of Magic- Ev, En, Abj, Nec, Conj, Div, Ill, Tran) took over- Volo's guides implied Nasher was their puppet after all. And I'm sure Neverwinter wouldn't have missed a chance to avenge themselves on Luskan.
The 'utter ruin' may very well refer to the old Neverwinter; Tyr, justice, gardens. The city possibly grew- after all, where are all those Luskans (which is utterly and deservedly dead) and Port Llast folks going to wind up? Not to mention the small villages like Thundertree, Leilon etc. But the city might resemble something akin to Westgate; more corrupt.
And after all- the game is yours to decide.