As per the front cover art...
How do you justify having Dragonborn in Cormyr?
Despite my misgivings on the race, I would presume that Dragonborn would first appear in coastal cities closest to their new continent out in the ocean. A trickle at first. What I don't get is how they appear IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CONTINENT IN CORMYR.
First things first...
As per the front cover art...
How do you justify having Dragonborn in Cormyr?
Despite my misgivings on the race, I would presume that Dragonborn would first appear in coastal cities closest to their new continent out in the ocean. A trickle at first. What I don't get is how they appear IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CONTINENT IN CORMYR.
I would hazard a guess and say he walked there. There may have been a little sea travel, maybe a little horse riding, a spot of caravaning here and there. Who's to say?
Is he a permanent resident or a tourist? You can usually tell by the presence of a handycam and inappropriate footwear. Those things are a dead giveaway...
Seriously, it has been more than 90 years. You don't think a Dragonborn would make their way a couple of hundred miles in that time? With the aid of teleportation magic? Do you think the Cormyrans are so racist that they would ban Dragonborn within their borders?
d
Can someone provide a link?
When I go to the Dragon Magazine page I don't see a link to the new Cormyr article....
Regarding the dragonborn, it's been 100 years since their appearance (after Mystra's murder and the spellplague), more than enough time I suppose for them to be all over Faerun, adventuring and spreading their dragony-scaly ways.
(Still not buying it, at least not this year, but maybe next, if I can't find any decent 3E books anymore. :D )There are a few bad clichés, and I don't like the country, but the same goes for Thay (and the entire new realms
). All in all it's the first decent preview that makes it reasonable to buy that book.Otherwise, it looks like Cormyr to me, with the Royal family and so on fast forwarded a hundred years. Looks like all the old material will apply, with a bit of modification ...
Now less information certainly isn't a problem as I can come up with my own differences.
One minor complaint is that Erzoured is a bit stereotypical. However I can either ignore him or try a few twists on his character. I absolutely love this country. I'm glad it hasn't been made an uber-adventurer friendly country with orcs and the like constantly roaming the countryside and with adventurer's constantly being hired out to do anything from deliver mail to killing dragons. I'm actually a bit surprised they didn't have the Purple Dragons at war with Sembia and so a need for adventurer's has arisen.
One thing I would've liked to see in the map was the borderlands of Netheril and Sembia.
It's annoying though that they put it under "Backdrops" but haven't linked that section to the actual article title on the Dragon Table of Contents page.
:SIGH:
:::::::::::::::::::
I found the name for the Suzail's Lord Magister (Edwin) to not be a very Realmsish name.
Nice to see that The Society of Stalwart Adventurers is still around.
The Cormaerils are back!
I didn’t know the Purple Dragons of Cormyr were named after Duar Obarskyr’s adventuring company. Cool bit of lore there!
Nice to see a long-lived (through the various rules editions of D&D) magic item like the Purple Dragon Commander’s Ring make it into 4E with complete game statistics.
Another -ahast sits as Mage Royal. But why ban mind-reaming?
The Tymoran Luckbringer is awesome.
.....and damn if that map isn’t just awesome.
:D:D:D:D
As far as I can tell, this isn't a preview of FRCS, it's a standard DDi backdrop article. This content isn't in the FRCS.
Ouch.
Okay, I take everything back about the FRCS back and replace it with D&DI.:DAnother -ahast sits as Mage Royal. But why ban mind-reaming?
Wow, didn't Caladnei get the short end of that stick!
I would imagine mind-reaming is going because it made the War Wizards too "effective". It would be hard to sell the idea of deep plots, machinations and orcs wandering over the countryside in bands if the War Wizards we still capable of being both quickly informed (mind-reaming) and quite possibly transportable? (teleportation?)
Still digesting the rest of this one.
As far as I can tell, this isn't a preview of FRCS, it's a standard DDi backdrop article. This content isn't in the FRCS.
Correct. Although while not a preview of the FRCS directly, it is a preview of 4e FR.
It makes me wonder what *is* in the FRCS however. If this isn't duplicating a lot of the information on Cormyr that's in that book then it treats the country pretty lightly ...
My prediction (which is based on very little fact) is that we'll get:
* a shorter version of geography
* Suzail as is
* A shorter version of nobility
* Shorter version of the Purple Dragons and the War Wizards
* Peacebonds info.
* History as is.
Mind reaming was probably removed for the simple reason that Wizards don't have those spells anymore. ;)
Anyway, it's not bad. Certainly an improvement on the Loudwater articles (though that's barely saying anything). Shame that the history section of the article is one paragraph long, in addition to the time line. We certainly could have done with an article like this in the 8 years of the 3rd edition Realms existence.
One last thing. It would be nice for the map to show where the borders of Cormyr lie.
I'm not sure that the borders of Cormyr are all that sharply defined, except maybe where it borders Sembia.
One minor complaint is that Erzoured is a bit stereotypical.
I noticed that too. he could be made more interesting if he wasn't a black-hearted evil schemer (why does the bastard-child always have to be the evil guy?) but a man bitter due to the death of his father, which he might blame on the current ruler, who he might feel would have had the duty to protect his brother and prevent his death (however irattional). And if you make the crown prince a bit arrogant and maybe a bully towards his cousin, you add some sympathy, even if he is the bad guy.
But aside from that a very good article. Very nice map, too.
First things first...
As per the front cover art...
How do you justify having Dragonborn in Cormyr?
Despite my misgivings on the race, I would presume that Dragonborn would first appear in coastal cities closest to their new continent out in the ocean. A trickle at first. What I don't get is how they appear IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CONTINENT IN CORMYR.
What continent? I thought the Dragonborn nation dropped on top of Unther.
Along the shore of the Alamber Sea, old Unther was swept away by a catastrophic outbreak of the Spellplague.
Where once ancient Unther stood now stands an arid mesa-land inhabited by draconic humanoids calling themselves dragonborn. This is the realm of Tymanther.
Even so the Dragonborn would have a couple of decades, at least to spread thru-out the Realms.
All that being said, I am realy impressed by this article!
The reason? I have three words for you;
Luckbringer of Tymora.
I had a character in 2nd that was this specialty priest who converted to the Prc in 3rd. It also means there maybe more PP for clerics of specific deities.
Yea!
More about the article, if the rest of the FRCS is as good as this, I'll be impressed.
Bel
I didn’t know the Purple Dragons of Cormyr were named after Duar Obarskyr’s adventuring company. Cool bit of lore there!
Thought they were named that after facing off against some pretenders Red Dragon (after his blazon or nickname or something) army... yeah, unless I'm interpreting it wrong, 1286 seems to say that the birth of the Purple Dragons was under Crown Prince Rhigaerd II to oppose Salembar's refusal to give up the 'regency'.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1062961
-RW
The map is beautiful! If they can keep up map quality like this, I'll be happy (although I would like a bigger version so that I could print small parts of it). Print quality on the map is great and easily readable (which was a big worry for me with so much content ending up online). Now if they could just make the toner/ink cost less I would be happy :P
Mind you, Elminster's Ecologies makes it clear that the Thunder Peaks are forested up to the tree-line and it seems that the Hullack Forest and the peaks would pretty much merge into one, which isn't exactly obvious from any of the maps!
The route of the East Way and the shape and extent of the Hullack Forest are substantially different too.
I guess the later maps are just more accurate ...
The map is beautiful! If they can keep up map quality like this, I'll be happy
I agree :D
(although I would like a bigger version so that I could print small parts of it).
1662px
You mean Suzail, rather than Cormyr don't you?
Yeah that's what I meant.
That's sounds like the sort of continuity problem I'll cheerfully ignore unless there's a good reason given for it.
Huh. I suppose that's a very high possibility. Although I thought with the Spellplague, a third of the War Wizards going insane and increased hostilities in the surrounding it was deliberate.
Of course I'm proud of the entire article, but my favorite part must be that gorgeous new map of Cormyr!
I was going to complain about the map resolution as well, but actually it's just about big enough to print at 1cm=10miles without too much pixelation.
I agree :D
1662px
It seems as though character options from the Realms will be unbalanced in this edition as well. Anyone remember the Hammer of Moradin PrC?
A PC shouldn't have a Commander's Ring without good reason anyway: they're for the servants of the Crown, not for random adventurers, and the Crown guards them closely. The price of the ring should more than offset its power.
...If it's not meant for PC's, why bother statting and pricing it at all?
So NPCs can use it against the PCs? A PC who has one of these is either using stolen Crown property, which they tend to get grumpy about, or is working for the Crown with the constraints that places upon you, which is a pretty high price to pay for most players.
Hmm, I suppose it could be used as a plot point then. Thanks.
A PC shouldn't have a Commander's Ring without good reason anyway: they're for the servants of the Crown, not for random adventurers, and the Crown guards them closely.
So, you never played in campaign's with strong ties to organisations? Plus, I don't think that "hard to get" is a proper excuse for producing too powerful items - the price and the level are for the DM to judge when he can introduce the item.
If these are off, it leads to handing them out too early, and this is then balanced by what? That the PCs had to work for the crown? Huh?
About the article in general: Surprisingly Realmsian! Doesn't feel like a forced post-apocalyptic, spellplagued version of Cormyr, more like an evolution of it after 100 years including an disaster. I like that - if they do the entire Realms in that way, i.e. keeping the good stuff, weeding out the bad, and sprinkling in the new, I could be positively surprised by the Realms!
Cheers, LT.
-Now if only I could see the article...stupid code that shows up. Its thing like these that make me want a physical book in my hands, in case my computer acts up.
-Most of the articles have been doing that for a week now. :embarrass
18DELTA ;)
-Never mind. There it goes...
"DC 30: Tymora has seduced dozens of deities and countless mortals over the centuries, but has remained curiously solemn and chaste since the death of her consort, Tyr."
Oh, now what happened to Tyr? I know Helm was slain by Tyr but what happened to Tyr? I must have missed something somewhere.
"DC 30: Tymora has seduced dozens of deities and countless mortals over the centuries, but has remained curiously solemn and chaste since the death of her consort, Tyr."
Ut ohs... Tyr got the chop too?
Poor Tymora, unlucky in love.
First impression tells me it might be interesting content. In countdown they had written that Cormyr hadn't changed much. But its really the same, except for the cast of characters...
I like the map... but has stated before, the Thunder Peaks are now really small !! I used to have a dwarven stronghold placed in there, but its position (at the beginning of the Immerflow) is now compromised a bit... also, Tilverton was north of that position in 2e... Otherwise, it looks with too much details/information/places that someone will have difficulty placing new areas !
Tyr may have been killed by Bahamut ?!...
"DC 30: Tymora has seduced dozens of deities and countless mortals over the centuries, but has remained curiously solemn and chaste since the death of her consort, Tyr."
OK, I have trouble buying that, sorry. Then again, I had trouble buying that entire plot point.
Keep the comments coming folks. I may even have an additional tidbit or two of additional lore to share that didn't make the final cut.
Any chance that some of what was cut was historical in nature? I mean that although some events are intimated in the text (the very nicely written text, by the way) the main historical outline is a 100 word paragraph and a timeline that contains about 15 items over a 100 year period.
I mean the paragon paths get more space than one of the greatest periods of upheaval in Cormyr's history (to my knowledge).
In a very Oliver Twist-esqe move I am asking for, "More Please Sir?"
I think, it will be more information about Politics and Plots that can arise with the Netheril Empire and Sembia... which looks like they're new mega plot line...
I'm having trouble accessing it too. A kind soul offered to send me the pdf, though.
-I sent it to ya, in case you still need it.
OK, I have trouble buying that, sorry. Then again, I had trouble buying that entire plot point.
Maybe he killed himself after realizing what he did to Helm under the influence of cyric and sworded himself. I can buy that, after all he was the god of justice and this would be fitting for this stupid killing.
They told it before that they will not cover much information on the timeline... so don't expect much on that part !
Oh, I have neither expectation nor even hope that there will be much more forthcoming. Yet since continued comments were solicited it would be a betrayal of my own inclinations not to at least ask.
Alusair is gone, Filfaeril is dead, Caladnei and Laspeera are unmentioned (too my knowledge, so far)... The Lady Lord of Arabel is missing presumed playing house with whatever Vangey is these days...
...and then the fact that we have a new Mage Royal, Ganrahast and second, Vainrence. Is the Mage Royal truly of Vangey's line? Who are these people?
Meh. As you suggested. Probably daft to ask.
-I believe that it's old news that Tyr is gone. We knew he wasn't going to be included, but not that he died.
Right, but this also says a lot about Tymora.... and maybe Cyric too...
Lucky in her career, unlucky in love.
She can "get lucky", but has no luck with proposals.
Her stalker (Cyric) lucks out again and again.
Maybe Cyric had a "hand" *cough* in Tyr's death.
Lucky Tymora, she's depressed and chaste.
Hard to get a new boyfriend when your last two wound up dead.
(I could keep going... heh...) :D
Oh, I have neither expectation nor even hope that there will be much more forthcoming. Yet since continued comments were solicited it would be a betrayal of my own inclinations not to at least ask.
Alusair is gone, Filfaeril is dead, Caladnei and Laspeera are unmentioned (too my knowledge, so far)... The Lady Lord of Arabel is missing presumed playing house with whatever Vangey is these days...
...and then the fact that we have a new Mage Royal, Ganrahast and second, Vainrence. Is the Mage Royal truly of Vangey's line? Who are these people?
Meh. As you suggested. Probably daft to ask.
100 years have passed. People die.
-I sent it to ya, in case you still need it.
I did--thank you so much!
Maybe he killed himself after realizing what he did to Helm under the influence of cyric and sworded himself. I can buy that, after all he was the god of justice and this would be fitting for this stupid killing.
I meant I don't buy it that Tymora would go into a state of perpetual mourning over Tyr. After all, even the blurb about this plot in GHotR didn't mention Tymora having any deep love for Helm or Tyr. In fact, what it did mention was her being "heartbroken" over Helm's death.
The whole story seems laughable to me.
100 years have passed. People die.
Indeed. And in a situation where an honest (and not expectant) request is made after the solicitation of such requests some people will feel the need to make unhelpful remarks.
We have both made statements of the obvious. Neither one has contributed to the discussion by doing so.
Now, I shall rework your comment as question phrased more along the lines of "Why should they include such information? After all, in the centuary time jump they would have died. What bearing does this have on the new setting?"
Now that we have a discussion rather than (a rather insulting, if I might say) one-liner, I shall outline my reasons.
Firstly,the actions of the past have an effect on the present. An example is the Mage Royal, if he is a direct descendent of Vangerdahast then is he carrying any effect of his rather unique ancestry? In either physicality or motivation? Has the stewardship of Caladnei left lasting marks on the workings of the War Wizards? Has the exit of El's children from the seats of power in Cormyr left lasting marks? All of these details from then have an effect on the now.
Secondly the, to you I'm sure, less important point. These were not minor characters to be merely evaporated. I am not asking for every detail about the daily life of Farmer Joe... these people were the power structure of Cormyr. Is that not important enough to be considered?
I agree that some of the names weren't FRish enough for my taste, like "Edwin" and "Eleanor". I also thought it was a bit strange that one of the PPs featured was for PCs who don't like Cormyr.
I think the War Wizard PrP (hopefully useful to both swordmages and wizards) and a Purple Dragon Knight PrP (hopefully useful to both warlords and fighters) are far more likely to make it in the FRPG proper. So no need to place them in a dragon article.
That doesn't really have to do with my point though.
The obvious plot for the mustache twirling brother and his group of power hungry nobles sounds like it might be a good time. Will he be prodded on by Sembia/Netheril or come up with the inevitable master plan all by himself? Hopefully that shows up in Dungeon as a "political thriller" adventure (along with a list of Cormyrian noble families and their alliances)?
Lots of possibilities with this article so I hope that further articles give this much detail to other countries/cities in the Realms.
18DELTA
I personally don't see any need for a Purple Dragon or War Wizard paragon path. Purple Dragons can take Iron Vanguard (if Fighter) or any of the Warlord Paragon Paths (all suit the Purple Dragon perfectly) and for the War Wizards, Battle Mage is perfect for them.
But that is just my opinion.
Hope no one is too upset by the changes to the geography since 3E. We had a little trouble with a couple of the earth movers during the terraforming process but we got the kinks worked out and I think the new landscape will be both utilitarian and inspirational.
By the way, you wouldn't believe the flack we caught from the mongrels in the Goblin Marches when the dozers showed up. Jeez, you think they owned the place or something.
As I always say; progress waits for no humanoid. ;)
Mike
www.mikeschley.com
Do you think that the geography has been changed or just represented differently?
Glad you guys like the map.
Hope no one is too upset by the changes to the geography since 3E. We had a little trouble with a couple of the earth movers during the terraforming process but we got the kinks worked out and I think the new landscape will be both utilitarian and inspirational.
By the way, you wouldn't believe the flack we caught from the mongrels in the Goblin Marches when the dozers showed up. Jeez, you think they owned the place or something.
As I always say; progress waits for no humanoid. ;)
Mike
www.mikeschley.com
Damn, I knew that the mention of the Ironside meant that we were going to start seeing mechanical vehicles in the realms.. Just when we finally get them to stop pushing guns too... Oh well, progress waits yadda yadda yadda...
Glad you guys like the map.
Seriously beautiful map, terrific work! Are you doing the other maps for Faerun as well? Hope so!
Do you think that the geography has been changed or just represented differently?
The geography has definitely changed. That's all I'm going to say though since I don't want to spoil it for anyone.
Are you doing the other maps for Faerun as well?
I would say it's definitely probable. It only depends on what additional projects they have me working on when other regions of Faerun are mapped. The folks at Wizards have been keeping me super busy since 4E kicked off.
The geography has definitely changed. That's all I'm going to say though since I don't want to spoil it for anyone.
Now I don't know if you mean the Thunder Peaks or Faerun in general.
Talking about the Paragon Paths.
I personally don't see any need for a Purple Dragon or War Wizard paragon path. Purple Dragons can take Iron Vanguard (if Fighter) or any of the Warlord Paragon Paths (all suit the Purple Dragon perfectly) and for the War Wizards, Battle Mage is perfect for them.
But that is just my opinion.
-Agreed. I never saw the reason for a Purple Dragon Knight PrC, or a War Wizard PrC, so the same feelings can be expressed in this case.
The geography has definitely changed. That's all I'm going to say though since I don't want to spoil it for anyone.
Well, I think we all expected some geography changes with 4E. ;)
I would say it's definitely probable. It only depends on what additional projects they have me working on when other regions of Faerun are mapped. The folks at Wizards have been keeping me super busy since 4E kicked off.
That would be great! I would love to see the entire map of Faerun done just exactly like this, as well as zoomed-in more detailed individual regions. It perfectly captures the look and "feel" of what we old timers expect from Faerun, which is one of the most important things for the setting.
Written material we can take or leave, add to our own campaigns or not... but maps like this are golden!
Or even better, the evil young prince might just pull off the coup and give Cormyr it's first really evil king, maybe with some backing from Netheril. Or, in order to counter the threat from Netheril, believing that you have to fight fire with fire. Much better than the standard, heroes find out about the evil plot and stop it adventure... Trying to stop the king as he takes the realm into darkness...
Why limit it to the king? Maybe he is being backed by many resentful noble houses in Cormyr who want to put him in the throne as a puppet to rule from in order to regain some of their lost priviliages, and maybe some of the houses wish to unify with the Empire of Netheril in order to gain the immense magical knowledge of that nation and then go to war with the Elves of Cormanthor.
Or...the king could be backed by Netheril and seek to unify his nation with the empire while resentful nobles launch their own mutinous plot in concert with another evil power (The Zhentarim?) against the encroaching threat. Or maybe the evil prince, the nobles, and the shades are all working on separate sides to undermine the Crown and it get complicated, or they are all working on the same side, maybe with some players as pawns and others as controllers. Or...
Hey, I'm actually getting pretty excited about 4e Cormyr.
18DELTA ;)
Tyr and Tymora - I just don't see them having anything in common. Tymora has alot of good aligned rogues who worship her - Tyr would be VERY against any roguish behavior. I just see her being upset over Tyr.
Darn, I was hoping to get the first post about the ironclad... Wonder if they are using a steam engine, and when the trains are coming?
-Lightining Rails anyone? ;)
-I got the impression of Eberron and the Treaty of Thronehold, when I read about the Treaty that Netheril, Cormyr, The Dales, and Cormanthyr made. ;)
18DELTA
Glad you guys like the map.
Indeed we do!
But a question: Do you know why New Tilverton was left off the map?
18DELTA ;)
One question though, can we suggest more topics for future backdrops? This could be easily combined with a vote for all the realms fans.
@M_Schley: Awesome map, I can only hope that we will see more of your works soon. I looked at your website too, and well a really impressive portfolio
One other thing I noticed... Is the royal mage Vangerdahast's kid? I seem to recall that in Elminster's Daughter he and Myrmeen got together and she was pregnant with his child. And given that the court wizard has that same hast ending to his name...
Dunno, it may be a common ending in the region. But perhaps, even though I don't really like the idea of an advisor dynasty.
Yeah, the whole Tyr and Tymora thing was probably just made up so that WoTC had an excuse to get rid of Tyr. Ironically marrying Tymora certainly brought Tyr a lot of bad luck, as in enough bad luck to bury him six feet under.;)
But a question: Do you know why New Tilverton was left off the map?
To make room for the Tilverton Scar.
There's so much I can do with a map like this. It's very inspiring.
It makes me want to run my 4E group on a "Once Around Cormyr" type adventure, so that they can see, experience and adventure in the new cities/towns/keeps on the map.
I would really like to learn more about the construction and history of Castle Nacacia, Azoun's Hold, Temple Acheron and so on.
As for Tyr, maybe Tymora's *****y sister decided to give her in law some of her attention?
HERE is the exact post. ;)
I find myself just sort of gazing at the new Cormyr map on my computer screen.
There's so much I can do with a map like this. It's very inspiring.
It makes me want to run my 4E group on a "Once Around Cormyr" type adventure, so that they can see, experience and adventure in the new cities/towns/keeps on the map.
Ummmm... I'm thinking about running a 4e one myself now... :embarrass
I would really like to learn more about the construction and history of Castle Nacacia, Azoun's Hold, Temple Acheron and so on.
If you want to know about Gwarch in the Stonelands... just check the old Stonelands thread.
I CREATED it. :D
Or you could just ask me.
:D
If you want to know about Gwarch in the Stonelands... just check the old Stonelands thread.
I CREATED it. :D
Or you could just ask me.
Markus invented Collinwood (southwest of Eveningstar) as well. His Stonelands map was simply superb and I'm glad these locations made it into Realms canon.
18DELTA :D
Dang... thats three locales and a Princess' name now...
I'm fairly certain I can no longer put 4e FR down for any reason at this point.
Maybe I can learn to live with Dragonborn.....
Give it a year or two, and even the die-hards will switch.
If the DDi continues to have great articles like that one, there is yet hope.
Brian James has stated that New Tilverton is "alive and well" in 4e, and was (for some odd reason) left off that map.
HERE is the exact post. ;)
Not to be pedantic, but he says he doesn't know why it was yanked. It could be a mess-up on the artist's part (which I can easily fix), or it could be an editor that removed it deliberately.
I'm fairly certain I can no longer put 4e FR down for any reason at this point.
Oh I see what they've done there. Put in some canon from all the big name people who dislike 4e and ensure they can't complain about it anymore :P
Is there no low WotC won't sink to? *sigh*
Sadly, it looks less bad each day... I knew this would hapen after the initial shock wore off.
Give it a year or two, and even the die-hards will switch.
If the DDi continues to have great articles like that one, there is yet hope.
One Realms to rule them all, one backdrop to find them, one map to bring them all, and in the geekness bind them. :D
And I realy would not worry that the Dragonborn will get such a big role after all, Swordmage (IIRC) didn´t even feature 1 of them. Otherwise just call them half-dragons with daddy isssues (thereby explaining the hatred of dragons)
Not to be pedantic, but he says he doesn't know why it was yanked. It could be a mess-up on the artist's part (which I can easily fix), or it could be an editor that removed it deliberately.
I distinctly recall the editorial instruction not to include New Tilverton in the final version of the map. I'm not sure what the reasoning for this was though.
Give it a year or two, and even the die-hards will switch.
I will never switch to 4E Realms. There's absolutely no incentive for me to switch, and a good deal of incentive for me not to switch. We've seen one fairly good article (for a region we knew had less drastic changes anyway), and one very nice map. Given -everything- else that's been previewed, and considering everything one would have to accept in order to adopt these new Realms, I'm not going to suddenly change my mind and buy it. Doing so would not only make me a hypocrite, but also a serious flake. And if I were to intentionally become a hypocrite, it'd have to be over something far more important than a game. My own campaign will do just fine as a mixture of mostly 1E and some 2E/3E without all of these bizarre changes.
Does that make me a die hard? Perhaps. But I like to see it as voting with my dollar.
Sadly, it looks less bad each day... I knew this would hapen after the initial shock wore off.
Give it a year or two, and even the die-hards will switch.
If the DDi continues to have great articles like that one, there is yet hope.
-We will be assemilated!(sp) :P
18DELTA ;)
I find myself drawn to it much s a moth is drawn to flame... fully expecting my own demise, but unable to control my curiousity.
I distinctly recall the editorial instruction not to include New Tilverton in the final version of the map. I'm not sure what the reasoning for this was though.
Interesting.
There could be two reasons for that -
1) They want 'New Tilverton' to be a surprise (which it isn't, given your, Ed's, and Brian's openess about it, and info in the GHotR)
2) or more likely, it is important to something someone is currently working on, be it a novel, article, or module. Strange though, that Brian would not have been 'in the loop' for that.
Since Brian has seen the new FRCG, I would assume it was there right up until 1479 DR, and some other reason (as given in my #2 above) is behind it's omission. Wouldn't it be a shame if it was the first victim of a 4e RSE?
Anyhow, I like the new map (so far) M_Shley - its a combination of the 3e terrain types with a more artistic flair thrown in.
Beautiful job.
I distinctly recall the editorial instruction not to include New Tilverton in the final version of the map. I'm not sure what the reasoning for this was though.
Thanks M_Schley. I was afraid that was the case
Keep the comments coming folks. I may even have an additional tidbit or two of additional lore to share that didn't make the final cut.
Of course I'm proud of the entire article, but my favorite part must be that gorgeous new map of Cormyr!
I love the map. The map is the ONLY thing I liked...
Where are the powerful women of Cormyr? Why have they all disappeared? Why is it that everyone who was male and important had a male first born son?
And what's with a solem and chaste Tymora?
I seem to be being systematically driven away from the Realms. Just when I'd decided to give it a chance this comes out... I am seriously crushed.
the article, when you have all older edition info is not that interesting, a sourcebook on Cormyr would be
Mike, I'll add to the kudos for the map! I hope we get one with political boundaries in the FRCS, though. I don't quite get a grasp of just what Cormyr is nowadays, and what parts of the Dragon Coast is under their "tyrannical" rule.
funny that...
I also got the feeling that Cormyr isn't as good as it seems from that article.
I also got the feeling that Cormyr isn't as good as it seems from that article.
Well, I wouldn't think that Cormyr can afford to be quite as 'good' in the post-spellplague Realms, if for no other reason that they have at least one hostile border to protect.
...and another in Westgate if I have anything to do about it! ;)
Joe
25 gold pieces? A FIRST level character can afford that. The entire point behind the 25,000 GP adventuring charter was that you couldn't just adventure in Cormyr. You had to find a noble patron and pay it off, or leave Cormyr and adventure to get a charter somewhere else.
I'm sorry, Brian, but I just don't like it. You could be the greatest writer in the world and I still feel like I'm gagging on monkey spit.
You could be the greatest writer in the world and I still feel like I'm gagging on monkey spit.
I think I'm going to get this printed on a T-shirt in time for Gen Con.
But to answer your question about the low cost charters msatran, this was by design. I'm going to let you in on a little secret. We *want* 1st level adventurers to play in Cormyr.
I don't quite get a grasp of just what Cormyr is nowadays, and what parts of the Dragon Coast is under their "tyrannical" rule.
Yeah, that could have been clearer. Cormyr now controls all the lands of the Dragon Coast between Easting and Westgate, including the cities of Proskur, Priapurl, Elversult, and Teziir.
Cormyr has also gained a stronger presence in the west. Maloren's Rest is Cormyr's foothold in the Tunlands. Troops in Castle Aris help goods pass safely through the Farsea Swamp to points westward.
In the East, Highdale is now a protectorate under crown rule. Daerlun once welcomed the protection of Purple Dragon troops, but gained its independence from both Cormyr and Sembia about forty years past.
Especially considering the VITAL role of her priesthood had during Cormyr's blights and the invasions of the gazneths, Goblins, and devil dragon?
They were promised a royal church in Suzail by Tanalasta for their service - did Alusair renege on her dead sister's promise? Two other temples were mentioned as existing in Suzail - if I were Chauntea's clergy, I'd have left the kingdom to rot after that affront.
I guess gods are truly powerless in 4e, eh?
I think I'm going to get this printed on a T-shirt in time for Gen Con.
But to answer your question about the low cost charters msatran, this was by design. I'm going to let you in on a little secret. We *want* 1st level adventurers to play in Cormyr.
Right. Plus gold value is different than it was in 3e. Also magic items do not sell for as much. 25k would be rediculous in the 4E economy. The kingdom wants adventurers to do their dirty work for them. They just want them "registered". PLus I do not remember seeing that 25k charge for a chater anywehere. That must have been in an obscure Volo book that had the local guy in charge of charters also was secretly a level 18 wizard.:D
But to answer your question about the low cost charters msatran, this was by design. I'm going to let you in on a little secret. We *want* 1st level adventurers to play in Cormyr.
Which can only be a good thing...
But it still doesn't stop me from being crushed about that article.
Edit: I always thought a Cormyrian charter cost 1000g or something like that.
They were promised a royal church in Suzail by Tanalasta for their service - did Alusair renege on her dead sister's promise? Two other temples were mentioned as existing in Suzail - if I were Chauntea's clergy, I'd have left the kingdom to rot after that affront.
Tanalasta presented the priests to her father as if it was a done deal. Unfortunately, this put her family in a very awkward position. The Royal Family couldn't be seen to favour one church over another, because that might have made them very unpopular with every other church... And with those churches gods... and with the faithful of those other gods... and well it would not have been a good move politically. Alusair and her nephew Azoun V would know this too.
Tanalasta was supposed to be politically astue, but we saw nothing like that in the Cormyr novels. Really, she should have known better than to make promises she knew her father wouldn't be able keep.
We *want* 1st level adventurers to play in Cormyr.
Pffft. They should be forced to play a certain way (having a patron), or not play in the region at all
Tanalasta was supposed to be politically astue, but we saw nothing like that in the Cormyr novels. Really, she should have known better than to make promises she knew her father wouldn't be able keep.
Yes - I recently re-read the novel.
My point is that two other temples are mentioned in the article, and nothing about Chauntea... in agrarian nation. Considering all they did for the country, I think they were pretty much 'slighted' by the royals.
And as the novels progressed, and the priesthood came in more and more handy, the royals and Vagerdehast all had second thoughts about adding priests as part of the 'official' Cormyrian army... and gov't.
In the aftermath of the Gazneth blights, the Chauntean church worked for years to reverse the effects (so sayeth ED, very recently at CK) on the land. I guess it's true when they say "no good dead goes unpunished".
Lets just say I was HIGHLY disappointed by the total lack of reference to the events of the final Cormyr novel.
Pffft. They should be forced to play a certain way (having a patron), or not play in the region at all
Yay, that's the spirit!
Yes - I recently re-read the novel.
My point is that two other temples are mentioned in the article, and nothing about Chauntea... in agrarian nation. Considering all they did for the country, I think they were pretty much 'slighted' by the royals.
And as the novels progressed, and the priesthood came in more and more handy, the royals and Vagerdehast all had second thoughts about adding priests as part of the 'official' Cormyrian army... and gov't.
In the aftermath of the Gazneth blights, the Chauntean church worked for years to reverse the effects (so sayeth ED, very recently at CK) on the land. I guess it's true when they say "no good dead goes unpunished".
Lets just say I was HIGHLY disappointed by the total lack of reference to the events of the final Cormyr novel.
Well it is 100 years in the future...
Two temples in a city the size of Suzail feels wrong to me. Perhaps there are other temples/shrines that just didn't rate a mention?
Can you shed some light on Telvanlu, Corsuor and Nalufaen? Are those undersea locations, islands exposed by the lowering of the Dragonmere waterline, floating cities/clumps of land, or some combination thereof?
Yay, that's the spirit!
I was referencing an earlier poster in an (attempted ;)) humorous way.
Two temples in a city the size of Suzail feels wrong to me. Perhaps there are other temples/shrines that just didn't rate a mention?
In Volo's Guide to Cormyr (which is free) it does indeed say there are shrines to other gods.
In Volo's Guide to Cormyr (which is free) it does indeed say there are shrines to other gods.
100 years is a long time, a lot can change.
It doesn't matter anyway, since I won't be using the 4e Realms, even if I will be using the 4e Rules next time I start a new campaign.
In Volo's Guide to Cormyr (which is free) it does indeed say there are shrines to other gods.
Ah, but that's a hundred years out of date, and everyone knows religious institutions never survive that long ...
100 years is a long time, a lot can change.
Right. You can assume because it wasn't mentioned, then all of the shrines were removed for unmentioned reasons. Or you can assume they're still there ;)
It doesn't matter anyway, since I won't be using the 4e Realms, even if I will be using the 4e Rules next time I start a new campaign.
Err... why ask then?
Err... why ask then?
-I don't think that half of us here actually play D&D in the Forgotten Realms. And, of the total number of people here, many don't want to play D&D and follow the new canon of the Forgotten Realms. Doesn't stop our/their curiosity, or the want/need to 'be in the know'.
Chauntea's faith is still quite prominent in Cormyr as are many others.
Suzail has many more temples and shrines than the two listed. Just as The Myrmidon isn't the only Inn and the Witch-Duke's Bride isn't the only tavern. The Towers of Good Fortune and the Silent Room are simply the largest, most recognizable temples in the city.
Can you shed some light on Telvanlu, Corsuor and Nalufaen? Are those undersea locations, islands exposed by the lowering of the Dragonmere waterline, floating cities/clumps of land, or some combination thereof?
They are undersea locations, though I don't remember off the top of my head which races dwell there.
Lets just say I was HIGHLY disappointed by the total lack of reference to the events of the final Cormyr novel.
I was specifically asked to focus on the present time period and not past events.
I was just hoping to see some of the past play itself out in the future.
It saddens me to think those priests made those sacrifices in vain.
At the end of some of the old novels (series included) there was a certain 'direction' events were heading, and the 'new team' chose to completly disregard what others set up for them.
And some of those events were set-up by Elaine and Ed.
It almost seems like a total nose-thumbing at former TSR designers/authors. I'm so glad the new team considers itself so much more talented then those folks.
I just wish WotC could see past the nose on their face, and realize that bridging the gap would make the new Realms more 'satisfying' to us old-timers.
As of right now, there is a complete 'disconnect', and what Brian is saying is that it is being perpetrated on purpose.
It's as if they don't want US to like the new Realms... weird, considering how much many of us has spent on it.
From what I've seen so far in the previews a good gm with a little lore can turn any of them into a plot device as good or almost as good as this article
Yes - a great article, don't get me wrong - in fact, it was SOLELY responsible for my recent 360 and willingness to give 4e a chance again.
I think you mean a 180. ;)
I'd hope this would be obvious but I had a limited word count to work with. No one should hold this article out as the definitive all encompassing dossier on 4E Cormyr.
Chauntea's faith is still quite prominent in Cormyr as are many others.
Suzail has many more temples and shrines than the two listed. Just as The Myrmidon isn't the only Inn and the Witch-Duke's Bride isn't the only tavern. The Towers of Good Fortune and the Silent Room are simply the largest, most recognizable temples in the city.
I am curious, are the writers paid per word or something. I expected that now with an online magazine the word coun´t would no longer be enforced.
After all, all the people who really waited for the article and love it now (or don´t love it soo much
) would be even happier if nothing was cut. IIRC it´s 9 pages long, but most people would have read 20 or 30 pages. I don´t want to sound ungratefull, but creative people like you and Ed could if my impression is correct fill more pages easier than edit it down to fit the word count. Just a small question at the end: Can you tell us what´s currently done in the Halls of Eveningstar and on the frontier to Sembia?
I currently run Kots there and all the bad guys are servants or Shar and the whole thing is sponsored by Sembia and Netheril, so I am very curious how the border situation is in the Thunder Peaks.
I think I'm going to get this printed on a T-shirt in time for Gen Con.
But to answer your question about the low cost charters msatran, this was by design. I'm going to let you in on a little secret. We *want* 1st level adventurers to play in Cormyr.
The point was, they still can. They just have to play SMARTER, Brian. If they roleplay their way into a noble house and beg for a charter, the noble says something like "Sure, as long as you work for me, support my political aims, and my right to certain social privelages." If they say yes, he gives them a charter, and then they work for HIM. He can be kindly and good, selfish and cruel, or a complete flibertigibbet who just wants to say "I have adventurers. See what they do!"
He can take a cut of their profits. He can elevate them to positions in his household. He can grant them status. He can take it away. That's a GREAT game. Taking away the high cost of the charter removes the ability of the nobles to be FEUDAL nobles. Cormyr was the only feudal nation in the realms, and taking that away really stings. It's not my fault most players have very little understanding of the system of vassalage and patronage, but kicking the medievalists in the teeth and saying goodbye is, in my opinion, a poor decision.
Option number two: The PC's operate in secret without a charter, and desperately try to get jobs while avoiding the law and the war wizards. This is a great campaign too. Then the PC's have a different set of problems. Finding safehouses, making allies, so when they DO have enough money to get the charter, they don't get burned.
Option Number Three: The PC's work for the military. If the PC's work for the military, all of their adventures are militaristic. So what? There's a lot of good that can come out of a campaign like this, and the PC's will earn their scars, their titles, and maybe their charter the hard way if they decide to quit.
Option Number Four: In Waterdeep, and other places, charters are not as expensive. Go there, get one, and come back. Yes, it's like offshore banking, but so what? And then the PC's get treasure and experience points as they make their way there. That's not bad, is it? Sure, they can die on the way, but so what? What's life without a little risk? Cormyr does (Grudgingly) allow the adventuring charters of other nations.
Option Number Five: The PC's are all nobles of various houses. This game can be a lot of fun if the PC's can not devolve into political squabbling and influence peddling every time someone kills a monster. Then they don't need a charter. It is a noble's indisputable right and responsibility to kill monsters so that the peasants who provide him with food on his land don't all kick off and die.
That's five campaigns right out of the box that can be run in Cormyr with the expensive charter, and my well is hardly dry of ideas. That was just the first five minutes.
I prefer real risk. I despise systems where people are "Born Heroic" unless you're playing with a system where the characters have to take real disadvantages to balance out their might (Hero System is like this, the mightier you are, the more disadvantages you have to take)
There's no such thing as an NPC. Play smarter, not mightier. You don't get to win just because you're a player character.
If you feel the need to levy a hefty fee for a charter then by all means do so. If you feel the need to punish the player characters for every inch of ground they gain then please do so. As I said it comes down to whatever flavor you want for your individual campaigns. I guess my dire mistake was making the statement that all of the points work just was well with a reasonably priced charter.
Please, accept my sincerest apologies for daring to type something that caused you to feel the need to make a great many assumptions on my style and flavor of play.
I do hope that the FRCS will not be that male-centered. That alone would be a reason for not-givin it a try (Spellplague is hard enough)
the "flavour" of Cormyr however was nice for beginners (I could give out the text to our FR-Newbie Players and advicing them to just ignore everything past Alusair's regency) and the map is beautiful. So mixed thoughts here ;)
Right. You can assume because it wasn't mentioned, then all of the shrines were removed for unmentioned reasons. Or you can assume they're still there ;)
My assumption is that they're still there. ;)
I did say "two temples in a city the size of Suzail doesn't feel right", didn't I? The logical follow on from that is "therefore other temples are probably there, but just weren't mentioned in the article."But if there are changes, that's to be expected too. It has been 100 years, there has been a spellplague. The temples and shrines mentioned in Volo's Guide might have fallen, or changed, or new ones might even have sprung up.
Err... why ask then?
I didn't.
Someone was asking (I think it was MarkusTay) about the church of Chauntea.Edit: Just so people don't think I'm always negative... I was also rather impressed with the Luck Bringer of Tymora PrP (aside from the DC 30 information about her being solemn and chaste since the death of Tyr). I can definitely use it when I switch to the 4e rules, even without making the hundred year leap (if I can ever persuade my players to play 4e.
)!Most of the players I work with are married have kids and have some tough lives. This is all escapist enterntainment for us all. When they sit down they don't want an issue of KOTD they want a good time. I give them that. Plus we don't take this game as seriously as some people, our lives see to that.
I think you mean a 180. ;)
-No, that's about right for him. A 360. A 1080. Round and round we go.
Please, accept my sincerest apologies for daring to type something that caused you to feel the need to make a great many assumptions on my style and flavor of play.
Don't let him bother you.
And for what it's worth, you were right. It's all about campaign flavor and getting people into the game.
-No, that's about right for him. A 360. A 1080. Round and round we go.
Karsus has the right of it. :D
Months ago I decided to run a 4e game (but in a world of my own making, and still play 3e using Golarion and Pathfiner).
Then when the 4e rules came out, I was dissapointed, so I decided NOT to use them, and stopped developing my own setting at that point.
Now, I've come full-circle, and I'm going to run (and attempt to enjoy) 4e - the only difference is I've decided to also give the 4e realms a shot as well.
And BTW, I hope nobody thinks I've become a 'traitor' or anything - I still dislike the rules and the setting for various reasons - but I've decided its only a frickin' game so why not give it a chance?
Hell, if I can sit through games of Sorry and Life with my little ones, I think I can tolerate this.
Besides, I already bought the PHB, and my son bought the MM, and I'm sure I would have bought the 4e FRCG regardless, so I might as well get some use out of it.
-I don't think that half of us here actually play D&D in the Forgotten Realms. And, of the total number of people here, many don't want to play D&D and follow the new canon of the Forgotten Realms. Doesn't stop our/their curiosity, or the want/need to 'be in the know'.
Seemed a bit odd to ask a question, get an answer and then respond with a) that could be wrong and b) It doesn't matter.
Two temples in a city the size of Suzail feels wrong to me. Perhaps there are other temples/shrines that just didn't rate a mention?
In Volo's Guide to Cormyr (which is free) it does indeed say there are shrines to other gods.
It doesn't matter anyway
why ask then?
I didn't.
Okay...
I'll just leave it at I'm thoroughly confused ;)
Seemed a bit odd to ask a question, get an answer and then respond with a) that could be wrong and b) It doesn't matter.
Yeah, it is. I wasn't terribly clear and I am sorry if I caused confusion. :embarrass
The question I asked was rhetorical. I agree with the idea that Suzail in 1479 DR probably has more than just two churches mentioned in the article. Which Brian James himself clarified in this thread.
But you mentioned Volo's Guide to Cormyr. Time doesn't stand still for Comyr - it marches onwards. Therefore, some of the churches mentioned in the Guide might not have been present 100+ years later (especially those that might belong to deities that are no more - such as Helm and Tyr, but I'd hae to check my copy of Volo's Guide to Cormyr to work out which ones won't be there)... Which is why I said, essentially, "things change".
I also added that it wouldn't matter for me, because I am not making the 100 year jump, so the way things stand in Volo's Guide is almost as it will be in my version of the Realms.
Hmm not quite sure where I said they should start out as world saving heroes, have kings bow their heads to them or that they should win just because they are player characters. I'll have to work on my making assumptions and practice being ill mannered while doing so.
If you feel the need to levy a hefty fee for a charter then by all means do so. If you feel the need to punish the player characters for every inch of ground they gain then please do so. As I said it comes down to whatever flavor you want for your individual campaigns. I guess my dire mistake was making the statement that all of the points work just was well with a reasonably priced charter.
Please, accept my sincerest apologies for daring to type something that caused you to feel the need to make a great many assumptions on my style and flavor of play.
I love how you view what I consider hard work and proving yourself worthy to be punishment. Wow, people have lost their way in playing D+D.
Karsus has the right of it. :D
-As always.
Then when the 4e rules came out, I was dissapointed, so I decided NOT to use them, and stopped developing my own setting at that point.
-There's nothing particularly wrong with the rules, in and of themselves. I, myself, enjoy learning about them, for various reasons.
And BTW, I hope nobody thinks I've become a 'traitor' or anything - I still dislike the rules and the setting for various reasons - but I've decided its only a frickin' game so why not give it a chance?
-No, but I find it...stupid that, even though you dislike the rules and the setting, you're still going to be doing it.
Seemed a bit odd to ask a question, get an answer and then respond with a) that could be wrong and b) It doesn't matter.
-Happens all the time. Exasperation.
And BTW, I hope nobody thinks I've become a 'traitor' or anything - I still dislike the rules and the setting for various reasons - but I've decided its only a frickin' game so why not give it a chance?
There are no traitors when it comes to matters of taste... if you decide that you will try something because you warm up to it and like it, that's completely understandable. But I guess it seems a little odd (to me, anyway) that you're saying you still don't really like it, but you'll buy it anyway. That's sort of like someone who buys a $5 cup of coffee because it's something hot to drink, even though they know that they really dislike the taste. But some people do. =shrug=
So no... not a traitor. Just a decision I don't really understand, considering the expense. =shrug=
Seriously though, do whatever makes you happy. There's no need or reason to justify our actions beyond making ourselves happy, and if someone doesn't like it, well, that's their problem, not yours.
Sadly, it looks less bad each day... I knew this would hapen after the initial shock wore off.
Give it a year or two, and even the die-hards will switch.
If the DDi continues to have great articles like that one, there is yet hope.
Hope of me using the 4E Realms, as a whole (as a opposed to stealing bits and pieces that I like)? Don't hold your breath. It's possible, but not probable, because I already have a very clear idea of where I want my Realms to go, and the 4E Realms doesn't mesh with that well enough.
I'd say he was a traitor... let's get a rope and hang him by those pointy green ears of his... :evillaugh
Traitor? Where's the traitor?
I love how you view what I consider hard work and proving yourself worthy to be punishment. Wow, people have lost their way in playing D+D.
Nope. He just sees things a little differently. He was upset because he thought you came off like a (insert whatever was in his head here) and he responded defensively. You both have different views of the game and let's leave it at that.
Anyway D&D is about different gaming styles and having fun while playing this game. Remember it is just a game and many people may not take it as seriously as others.
In the future I hope to see more little tidbits about Cormyr because I do find this area a very good place for political intrigue.
Now, I've come full-circle, and I'm going to run (and attempt to enjoy) 4e - the only difference is I've decided to also give the 4e realms a shot as well.
And BTW, I hope nobody thinks I've become a 'traitor' or anything - I still dislike the rules and the setting for various reasons - but I've decided its only a frickin' game so why not give it a chance?
The only problem that exists, as I see it, is all the angst that was generated on the boards, all the staunch declarations of hatred and repeated use of the word "never!", almost always boils down to the people who made these grandiose statements eventually coming to enjoy the very product they spent so much time deriding, and so much time belittling fans of said product.
Now, Markus, despite quoting you, I'm not referring specifically to you here, (you're only six steps along the path to enjoying 4e), but I think everyone can admit that a significant portion of the 'pro-4e' argument has been "wait and see, give it some time and you'll enjoy it".
Seeing some of the people who were initially declaring "never!" and pouring scorn on converts, actually enjoy some of the new content and even (gasp!) admit they may give 4e a try, strikes at the very reason why "never say never" is a cliché...
Remember next time around, that "never!" is a very long time, not just six weeks after a game is released... :P
Joe
Yeah, that could have been clearer. Cormyr now controls all the lands of the Dragon Coast between Easting and Westgate, including the cities of Proskur, Priapurl, Elversult, and Teziir.
Cormyr has also gained a stronger presence in the west. Maloren's Rest is Cormyr's foothold in the Tunlands. Troops in Castle Aris help goods pass safely through the Farsea Swamp to points westward.
In the East, Highdale is now a protectorate under crown rule. Daerlun once welcomed the protection of Purple Dragon troops, but gained its independence from both Cormyr and Sembia about forty years past.
Thanks for the clarification, Brian! Much obliged.
I love how you view what I consider hard work and proving yourself worthy to be punishment. Wow, people have lost their way in playing D+D.
msatran is like me, but more evil.
:P
:::::::::::::::::::::
So is anyone going to write an email or even a letter to WotC encouraging them to give Brian more Realms Writing Assignments?
In my perfect world, Brian gets nominated to be the new freelance version of Steven Schend (Realms Traffic Cop), to the benefit of the greater Realms Fandom.
He lets George Krashos take over from time to time (Brian will need a break every now and then) so we get even more good stuff.
Ahhh...perchance to dream.
;)
18DELTA ;)
And BTW, I hope nobody thinks I've become a 'traitor' or anything - I still dislike the rules and the setting for various reasons - but I've decided its only a frickin' game so why not give it a chance?
You're not a traitor. I'm getting the FRCG too, even if I dislike what they've done to the setting. I'll give it a thorough read --except the "improved" deity section (
) and the mini adventure ( )--, then get to work on making it palatable.Because I actually relish all the work that will require. (Brainpower Go!) :D
In 1385/1386 a quarter of the War Wizards in Suzail became mad and wreaked a lot of havoc before they were stopped. This had the effect of destroying large swathes of the city, and with the west side being a poorer section (at least it is in my game ;)) it had a large amount of fatalities. Many of the survivors fled the city (some went to Baldur's Gate and so there'll be a Cormyr neighbourhood there), and so with all of this the west side was abandoned completely and anyone who was still alive there was transferred to somewhere else inside the city. The ruins were cleared (over time) and a new wall was built and so the city looks something like this:
From 1390 to 1335 King Azoun V spent quite a bit of resources on rebuilding and renovating the city. This was to help stimulate the economy, to give people jobs and to get their mind off the fact that the population had shrunk and the disaster that had happened. As such many of the areas are now much more open with more open plazas, statues and fountains for everyone and estates for the wealthy.
And BTW, I hope nobody thinks I've become a 'traitor' or anything - I still dislike the rules and the setting for various reasons - but I've decided its only a frickin' game so why not give it a chance?
I'd never call you a traitor - after all you're just doing what I expected 90% of the naysayers to do eventually. Sooner or later most of them give in, and the fire and brimstone they breathed is yesterday's news :D
But I'm with Therise here: You don't like the rules, you don't like the setting, but you give it a try because there's worse stuff out there? That makes you a perfect customer - even if you don't like the product, you still buy it ;)
DB
:::::::::::::::::::::
So is anyone going to write an email or even a letter to WotC encouraging them to give Brian more Realms Writing Assignments?
In my perfect world, Brian gets nominated to be the new freelance version of Steven Schend (Realms Traffic Cop), to the benefit of the greater Realms Fandom.
He lets George Krashos take over from time to time (Brian will need a break every now and then) so we get even more good stuff.
Ahhh...perchance to dream.
;)
Well I think letting WotC know that we like it would be great idea, but whats the right way to do this, maybe a thread "We want more from Brian or we all stop breathing!", maybe E-mails or maybe even a pedition.
Anyways I think the guys in charge know that they have found a person to draw the FR croud into DI and that may be enough to make Brians work a monthly feature. :D
And we should express our love for the awesome map maker too
-I think BRJ should be shackled to a computer cubical under armed guard with one mandate, To Write More Realmslore. Even if it's Post-Spellplague Realmslore ;) :P :D
Well I guess thats not needed I think he is motivated enoough. The realm enemy is the word count. Once it´s defeated we get the real package.
18DELTA ;)
-No, but I find it...stupid that, even though you dislike the rules and the setting, you're still going to be doing it.
Accent mine... I believe calling someone's ideas 'stupid' amounts to the same thing as calling them stupid, and that's against the Code of Conduct.
Just messin' with you. ;)
Trust me, this decision is one I've been mulling over (back and forth, as you well know) for months now, and I pretty much decided that if I didn't at least try it out, I'd be as bad as my kids when they tell me they don't like something they've never even tried (Broccoli, for instance).
Personally, I don't think it has staying power, but we will see. I've spent the last 30+ years of 'flavoring up' sad-looking rules (like 1e), so I'm sure I can work with this. Also, immediately following my latest mind-change, GK posted this over at CK -
"There will be aspects of he 4E Realms which will make me go
or or even 
but I take solace in the fact that every edition of the Realms has made me do that at some stage or another!:D :P . I'll like some of it and live with the rest. Given everything that the Realms has done for me and me for it, I think that's about as fair a deal as I could ask for. Bring it on.-- George Krashos"
Obviously, for better or worse, George has come to the same conclusion - and has made the same decision - as I have, so I stand in good company.
You're not a traitor. I'm getting the FRCG too, even if I dislike what they've done to the setting. I'll give it a thorough read --except the "improved" deity section (
Because I actually relish all the work that will require. (Brainpower Go!) :D
BINGO! :D
Like GK has said above, guys like him (and myself to a MUCH lesser degree) spend tons of time figuring out how to make all the inconsistencies work, and if this new edition has done anything, it has heaped a centuries worth of continuity fixing upon us loremasters.
You would only be as much of a traitor as all those 2ed players who swore they would never go to 3rd edition, and that it had destroyed the game. Oh wait, that is nearly all of them... :D I could be wrong, and there could be a bunch of them out there, but since they don't post a lot of stuff here, I have to think they chose to convert at some point when they realized that they were fighting a losing battle, and that the new system had ideas they liked.
Actually, I eagerly anticipated the 3e rules (I thought 2e was the WORST convoluted set of garbage ever to see print), as I have eagerly anticipated EVERY new edition, including 4th.
Except this time, I was disappointed.
Seeing some of the people who were initially declaring "never!" and pouring scorn on converts, actually enjoy some of the new content and even (gasp!) admit they may give 4e a try, strikes at the very reason why "never say never" is a cliché...
And you, my friend, almost single-handedly convinced me to stick to my guns and continue to pour derision upon it...
I never said I liked it - in fact, I'm pretty sure I stated that I still HATE most of it, but like army food, you take what crap your given and deal with it, else you starve.
The only problem that exists, as I see it, is all the angst that was generated on the boards, all the staunch declarations of hatred and repeated use of the word "never!", almost always boils down to the people who made these grandiose statements eventually coming to enjoy the very product they spent so much time deriding, and so much time belittling fans of said product.
Now, Markus, despite quoting you, I'm not referring specifically to you here, (you're only six steps along the path to enjoying 4e), but I think everyone can admit that a significant portion of the 'pro-4e' argument has been "wait and see, give it some time and you'll enjoy it".
Seeing some of the people who were initially declaring "never!" and pouring scorn on converts, actually enjoy some of the new content and even (gasp!) admit they may give 4e a try, strikes at the very reason why "never say never" is a cliché...
Remember next time around, that "never!" is a very long time, not just six weeks after a game is released... :P
Joe
Actually, a few people like the 4E ruleset, just not the changes to the FR setting. Like me.
It's possible to like one or the other seperately. I don't think there's anything wrong with disliking either the rules or the new setting, and not everyone who holds said opinions spends their time deriding those who disagree with them. I think it's dishonest or ignorant to imply that that's the case.
I also don't buy it that almost everyone who starts off hating a product will wind up liking it with time. That just sounds like a recounting of imperfectly remembered personal experience to me (which I don't consider reliable). You remember the "converts" but forget about those who stuck to their ways. Bottomline is, you might be correct, but there's no reason to take that for granted.
You would only be as much of a traitor as all those 2ed players who swore they would never go to 3rd edition, and that it had destroyed the game. Oh wait, that is nearly all of them... :D
And how did you come by this particular "fact"?
And you, my friend, almost single-handedly convinced me to stick to my guns and continue to pour derision upon it...
I never said I liked it - in fact, I'm pretty sure I stated that I still HATE most of it, but like army food, you take what crap your given and deal with it, else you starve.
That doesn't seem an appropriate response from my post, which included;
Now, Markus, despite quoting you, I'm not referring specifically to you here, (you're only six steps along the path to enjoying 4e), but I think everyone can admit that a significant portion of the 'pro-4e' argument has been "wait and see, give it some time and you'll enjoy it".
I'm not sure what to think that I seem to wield enough influence with you that you would be scornful and derisive of something just on account of one post. Especially one that singled out that I thought you weren't actually at the stage of enjoying it (Six steps along, you know, the 12 steps...).
Joe
I will still run 3e for my teenagers, though, because they want me to stick with our current game, and because they are mature enough to comprehend the mish-mosh that is 3e. ;)
Hmmmm... I seem to have poured derision on something I plan on using again... it must be that incredibly derivitive excerpt about Elfharrow that's got my blood a'boilin' again.
--- Sorry
not everyone who holds said opinions spends their time deriding those who disagree with them. I think it's dishonest or ignorant to imply that that's the case.
I certainly believe it is ignorant to imply that I stated that opinion.
I also don't buy it that almost everyone who starts off hating a product will wind up liking it with time. That just sounds like a recounting of imperfectly remembered personal experience to me (which I don't consider reliable). You remember the "converts" but forget about those who stuck to their ways. Bottomline is, you might be correct, but there's no reason to take that for granted.
Of course, nothing is set in stone and yes, much of my opinion on this matter is formed through personal (subjective) experience.
My intention with the post was to comment on a perceived willingness to engage in hyberbolic behaviour from a segment of the community that appears, in many cases, to be hasty and ill-considered. I can only form this opinion through observation of posters who initially spat bile at the game/setting so acidic it would melt concrete, and now profess approval with many aspects of the game/setting.
And no, this does not apply to all community members and no, it doesn't neccesarily apply to Markus...sigh.
Joe
I certainly believe it is ignorant to imply that I stated that opinion.
I'm just going by what you wrote:
The only problem that exists, as I see it, is all the angst that was generated on the boards, all the staunch declarations of hatred and repeated use of the word "never!", almost always boils down to the people who made these grandiose statements eventually coming to enjoy the very product they spent so much time deriding, and so much time belittling fans of said product.
I'll admit I've made some "angsty" posts. According to what you've said, that's a problem and puts me in the group you just wrote about. The wording in that text suggests that everyone who is "angsty" about the changes acts in the way you described.
That might not be what you meant, but don't tell me I'm ignorant in the way I read your rather over-the-top description.
I will enjoy it, but only because it is still losely based upon the world Ed created, and because the infantile rules will allow me to now run a game for my 6 and 10 year olds, and I ALWAYS enjoy spending time and playing with my kids.
I will still run 3e for my teenagers, though, because they want me to stick with our current game, and because they are mature enough to comprehend the mish-mosh that is 3e. ;)
Hmmmm... I seem to have poured derision on something I plan on using again... it must be that incredibly derivitive excerpt about Elfharrow that's got my blood a'boilin' again.
--- Sorry
I think it is great that you have found a way to bring your young kids into D&D. Good Luck
And how did you come by this particular "fact"?
Sales.
Pure, undeniable sales.
WotC captured the majority of the 2E audience and brought it into 3E.
But whatever, out with the old and in with the new (for better or worse).
It could be worse - I could be playing in DL with those "Storyteller Rules".
Sales.
Pure, undeniable sales.
WotC captured the majority of the 2E audience and brought it into 3E.
Ummm, I was questioning his statement that "nearly everyone" started off hating 3E. It doesn't seem to be the case that "nearly everyone" hates 4E, so I have no reason to believe such was the case back when 3E came out. I asked to see facts.
So... let's talk Cormyr shall we?
That imposed Cormyr map-trick Markus did was really neat!:P
So... let's talk Cormyr shall we?
Good Idea.
After carefully studying the map some more, I just realized - did you take the name for the small northern forest from my map as well?
I named it 'Redwoods' because of the nearby town of Redspring, not because of the types of trees therein.
I guess thats how we got redwoods in FR - my bad. :embarrass
That forest, BTW, was taken from Ed's notes - there is supposedly a treeline running the entire length of the Stormhorns, but I could only fit that little piece on the map (just assume the slopes are covered with pine forests, as per Ed's description).
I think I in-advertantly caused the Stormhorns to get narrower as well, when I 'skinnied' them up to fit in the canon Shore of Sorrow and High Moors. :embarrass :embarrass
I have to be more careful about my alterations in the future.
I love the reference to the older Netherese maps - Moanders Footstep. :D
I love how you view what I consider hard work and proving yourself worthy to be punishment. Wow, people have lost their way in playing D+D.
So basically if people don't play your way we're playing it wrong?
Well, obviously - in retrospect - we who bothered to invest time and study it where playing it wrong, and ruined it for everyone else.
Keep playing your 3.5e games. Keep studying and hypothesising over the minutiae. Those who want a more fresher start can play in the 4e FR games. Everyone can enjoy their games and there doesn't need to be any supposed allegations of ruining the others games
While writing up the bit on Cormyr with the Luckbringer portion, was that from information from the upcoming Campaign Setting? I was only asking due to the bit of discussion with this thread http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1063015.
AFAIK the Luckbringer info is unique to the Cormyr article.
We'll have to wait and see I guess.
Brian?
Keep playing your 3.5e games. Keep studying and hypothesising over the minutiae. Those who want a more fresher start can play in the 4e FR games. Everyone can enjoy their games and there doesn't need to be any supposed allegations of ruining the others games
Thats not my allegation - just listen to the WotC 'shop-talk', like on that last Podcast, where we were accused of having "feelings of entitlement".
We didn't start this - MONTHS ago the designers said that it was the current (die-hard) fans keeping new fans from entering the realms because of our insistance upon people learning the lore, when in fact it was only a select minority who were doing just that.
Anyone who made some new player feel that way was an A-hole, and I will tell them that to their face. FR was for everyone, and you can use as little or as much as you liked, but now thanks to some self-agrandizing idiots and a bunch of 'its too hard' whiners, the designers had to (rightly, I might add) 'mix things up a little', to reset everyone at the same level of knowledge.
Problem is, I think that just exacerbated the situation, and now that 'perceived' line in the sand has become an actual one.
And thats a bad thing, because FR was for everyone, like I said.
Interesting Rauric. I have no plans to return to Cormyr in the near future but I too would like to read about the fate of Finder’s “daughters”.
Oh! And if you can arrange it, in Alias' armor.
Can you hook a brother up?
Oh! And if you can arrange it, in Alias' armor.
:OMG!
Bel
Let’s see here. The Redwoods are indeed from Mark’s Stonelands map and no the Luckbringer of Tymora will not (to my knowledge) be in the FRPG.
Do you know if they're going to correct the mistakes on the Luckbringer of Tymora?
Let’s see here. The Redwoods are indeed from Mark’s Stonelands map and no the Luckbringer of Tymora will not (to my knowledge) be in the FRPG.
Interesting Rauric. I have no plans to return to Cormyr in the near future but I too would like to read about the fate of Finder’s “daughters”.
Pass the word along please. The concept of someone (Grubb) returning to the Legacy of Finder he helped create would be great. He wanted to make a bunch of tools that would spread his greatness and music when he was a grade A douchbag. I would love to hear what happened to all of them and how they did expand his greatness but in a much different way than he expected.
The legacy of the Wyvernspur line is too rich of story purposes to ignore. We all saw that there were the jerky side of the family with Steele and his sister and then there are Finders Daughters who were considered Wyvernspurs due to a possible gods shenanigans. Then we have the actual Wyverspur Atrifact.
Who is it's current weilder?
Do you know if they're going to correct the mistakes on the Luckbringer of Tymora?
I submitted my suggested changes to Wizards over the weekend. Hopefully they will be incorporated before the aggregated monthly PDF is published.
Excellent.
Thank you! :DHe wanted to make a bunch of tools that would spread his greatness and music when he was a grade A douchbag.
Nearly a spit-take, my friend, and oh so true. :D
Accent mine... I believe calling someone's ideas 'stupid' amounts to the same thing as calling them stupid, and that's against the Code of Conduct.
Just messin' with you. ;)
-There's Clause 13, which specifically states that you are fair game, always.
Trust me, this decision is one I've been mulling over (back and forth, as you well know) for months now, and I pretty much decided that if I didn't at least try it out, I'd be as bad as my kids when they tell me they don't like something they've never even tried (Broccoli, for instance).
-Are we going to start with the "You need to try something to know you like it" schpiel? My step-father is allergic to shellfish. He's never had them (as far as I am aware). I don't think he'd particularly like them, being as that he'd die and all. You know.
-But, I'm just saying. ;)
-You do what you want to do.
I never said I liked it - in fact, I'm pretty sure I stated that I still HATE most of it, but like army food, you take what crap your given and deal with it, else you starve.
-I like MREs, but that's just me...
Thanks.
Do any Realm Scholars know any lore about the Tower Tranquil that appears on the map, near Thunder Gap. I've seen it on 2e maps, but never knew anything about the place.
Thanks.
From Spellfire
Fzoul spoke. "We do not know. I would tend to think not. This maid had no known skill or use of art before using spellfire openly against the dracolich Rauglothgor. Interestingly, the keep above the lair she destroyed was the Tower Tranquil—once the home of the sorcerer Gartliond, husband of the incantatrix Dammasae."
There's a bit more info in Spellfire
The complete issue has been posted, with some updates to the Cormyr article (mostly to the mechanical bits). Download it at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drtoc/365
I noticed the changes to the luckbingers power and the channel divinity feat ... did you notice any other changes?
just check the old Stonelands thread.
-Where is it? The Old Stonelands Thread that is.
18DELTA ;)
Thats where some of those new canon locations came from. ;)
Not sure if the map links work anymore, but you can see both the players and DM's maps at Candlekeep.com, in Alaundo's Library, in the Map Room.