1) why was she in silnce?? why she wanted to be resurrected??
2) if Danife is 8th aspect or what of new Lolth, who are those 7?? other drow from FR, or from another worlds as well??
if yes, was the Silence in those other wolrds as well??
3) now Lolth is as 8 creatures with 1 mind?? or when she needed she can fuse together and make 1 body??
4)
a) when there were Times of Trouble, how can Lolth walk as mortal in FR when she is worshiped in other worlds as well?
b) was it some kind of aspect there??
c) what would happen with Lolth if she has been killed in FR during those times??
thx guys
1) why was she in silnce?? why she wanted to be resurrected??
-We don't know the exact process of what happened, but...Basically, Lolth "concentrated" herself, growing stronger to become (presumably) a Greater Deity.
2) if Danife is 8th aspect or what of new Lolth, who are those 7?? other drow from FR, or from another worlds as well??
if yes, was the Silence in those other wolrds as well??
-That was my thought behind it. Third Edition ditched the "everything is connected" mantra, for the most part, but in the novel, the author wanted it that way (or was told), so there you go. Personally, I thought it was a cool idea.
-The Silence of Lolth was indeed a multispheric event, as per Drow of the Underdark (I believe), and an article by Shemeska, mentioning it elsewhere (I believe).
3) now Lolth is as 8 creatures with 1 mind?? or when she needed she can fuse together and make 1 body??
-Well, deities don't have actual bodies. They're just globs of Divine energy. The '8' theme goes with spiders, so I would say there no actual change, except for an aesthetic sense.
4)
a) when there were Times of Trouble, how can Lolth walk as mortal in FR when she is worshiped in other worlds as well?
b) was it some kind of aspect there??
c) what would happen with Lolth if she has been killed in FR during those times??
A) This was one of the major problems of the Time of Troubles, multispheric deities. Think of it like this: The entity Lolth had some of her divine energy taken away, and contained to avatar form during the ToT, because of "watching" it through her "Magic Television".
B) Yes, she was a somewhat mundane Drow woman in Menzoberranzan.
C) In theory, all that should have happened was Lolth (the total entity) losing some divine power.
2) 8 aspects because of the spider. Don't forget that the numbers associated with Lloth are 6(6)(6) because of her layer's former number, and 8 because of the spider's legs. These aspects can be anyone you like, presumably very powerful female drow from all the worlds.
3) they just represent her greater power... means she's more powerful. Think avatars or something close.
4 a) Time of Troubles affected only FR
b) her avatar (mortal) walked in Menzo as an extremely beautiful woman (read Siege of Darkness)
c) she would die like Leira, Myrkul, Bhaal and some others.
8 aspects? Well, a deity can assume and be whatever "it" likes and I doubt that Lolth will walk about any differently than before, be that a beautiful drow female, a drider-like being, a spider with a drow head or whatever strikes a designer's fancy. I also doubt that there actually was any real thoughts behind her "8 aspects" apart from the aforementioned spider-leg-thing (though why a spider needs 8 aspects because of having 8 legs is somewhat beyond me ... I mean, there's a more important thing in a spider than these 8 legs to start with!)
The Time of Troubles was an isolated event in the D&D game, restricted to the Realms. A deity as such would not die if its worship or "mortal" avatar would have died ... straight away. Essentially, it would go to rest in the Astral plane and pending on the worshippers and other ways of resurrecting the deity, it could very well return later on. It is, in essence, a complicated matter not easily explained ... especially as not all is actually detailed.
Resurrected ... Lolth did not die and thus wasn't resurrected. She went through some sort of metamorphosis - and only because of that was silent to her worshippers.
-The Silence of Lolth was indeed a multispheric event, as per Drow of the Underdark (I believe), and an article by Shemeska, mentioning it elsewhere (I believe).
Yes, in the page on Lolth in a top 20 D&D villains article in the last print issue of Dragon magazine. Of course what I wrote there now makes less sense with the 4e FR cosmology changes and all sorts of random retcons to the setting that make reconciliation with FR in the Great Wheel (or any sort of common cosmology) even more difficult (and my opinion is rather rock bottom on the 4e design team's decisions with regards to FR there).
Yes, in the page on Lolth in a top 20 D&D villains article in the last print issue of Dragon magazine. Of course what I wrote there now makes less sense with the 4e FR cosmology changes and all sorts of random retcons to the setting that make reconciliation with FR in the Great Wheel (or any sort of common cosmology) even more difficult (and my opinion is rather rock bottom on the 4e design team's decisions with regards to FR there).
Receive my deepest felt commiserations. I enjoyed those articles ... despite Orcus making an appearance there.
Of course what I wrote there now makes less sense with the 4e FR cosmology changes and all sorts of random retcons to the setting that make reconciliation with FR in the Great Wheel (or any sort of common cosmology) even more difficult (and my opinion is rather rock bottom on the 4e design team's decisions with regards to FR there).
-We all feel it, you're not alone.
-We don't know the exact process of what happened, but...Basically, Lolth "concentrated" herself, growing stronger to become (presumably) a Greater Deity.
One should not try to look all too deep into some events or the way they developed within Realmspace. In essence, WotSQ had one main priority, making Lolth a Greater Power / Goddess.
True. But why are we not mentioning the removal of the Demonweb Pits from the Abyss? This is why she went silent and ended up with the power she did.
A) This was one of the major problems of the Time of Troubles, multispheric deities. Think of it like this: The entity Lolth had some of her divine energy taken away, and contained to avatar form during the ToT, because of "watching" it through her "Magic Television".
This is a problem, why?
True. But why are we not mentioning the removal of the Demonweb Pits from the Abyss? This is why she went silent and ended up with the power she did.
-I think it's the reverse: She was able to remove the Demonweb Pits from the Abyss and make it it's own Plane because she became a Greater Deity.
This is a problem, why?
-For D&D, or the books, or whatever else, it isn't a problem. For just talking and debating about it, it does lead to problems and questions. When this happened, what happened to the "rest" of them? Did they become weaker? Was the effect negligible? What would have happened if they were killed?
-I think it's the reverse: She was able to remove the Demonweb Pits from the Abyss and make it it's own Plane because she became a Greater Deity.
I would say that the moment the Demonweb Pits were removed from the Abyss, then all those that resided there were forced to serve her, thus increasing her power.
Power at that time was still based on the number of worshipers and such.
-For D&D, or the books, or whatever else, it isn't a problem. For just talking and debating about it, it does lead to problems and questions. When this happened, what happened to the "rest" of them? Did they become weaker? Was the effect negligible? What would have happened if they were killed?
I don't see an issue here in the least. Just as powers/followers/alignment wax and wane in any given world a deity choose to present themselves in, so do the rules.
As overdeity, Ao simply forced the essence of the gods out of the "heavens" and into the form of their mortal avatars.
Or you saying that an interloper deity can't be in avatar form in two different worlds at the same time?
I would say that the moment the Demonweb Pits were removed from the Abyss, then all those that resided there were forced to serve her, thus increasing her power.
Power at that time was still based on the number of worshipers and such.
Yeah, that's the point. What does 'that time' mean? Before 4 ed?
Yeah, that's the point. What does 'that time' mean? Before 4 ed?
Um...what's the point?
Yes. Before 4e.
As overdeity, Ao simply forced the essence of the gods out of the "heavens" and into the form of their mortal avatars.
Or you saying that an interloper deity can't be in avatar form in two different worlds at the same time?
-In only Realmspace? Could he somehow reach out and grab "all" of the deity, not just their Realmspace presence? If not, could the deity somehow send another avatar into Realmspace, and be present "twice"? If so, was there a silence of various deities all across the multiverse?
-In only Realmspace? Could he somehow reach out and grab "all" of the deity, not just their Realmspace presence? If not, could the deity somehow send another avatar into Realmspace, and be present "twice"? If so, was there a silence of various deities all across the multiverse?
To this, I need a better definition of "Realmspace."
Remember that I dabbled a bit in DL as well and see things from a bit different angle.
To this, I need a better definition of "Realmspace."
Remember that I dabbled a bit in DL as well and see things from a bit different angle.
-Everything in the Forgotten Realms' Crystal Sphere, as detailed in the Spelljammer sourcebook Realmspace.
-Everything in the Forgotten Realms' Crystal Sphere, as detailed in the Spelljammer sourcebook Realmspace.
And, due to your knowledge, I expect this does not include the world of Krynn. Correct?
-Basically, each Crystal Sphere is each D&D setting and it's immediate solar system. All of the TSR/WotC settings (Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Greyhawk...) were separate and had their own things going on.
-To keep it on topic, Lolth, is multispheric, and appears in various Crystal Spheres. A deity who is specific to the Forgotten Realms, like...Siamorphe, is only in Realmspace. He/she could in theory extend to others, but hasn't yet.