To put it mildly, the book is seriously light on content. I'm on the fence about returning the book. The only reason I'm considering holding onto it, is because I'm waiting to see how much they add via Dragon. (The Cormyr piece in Dragon is the only reason I didn't immediately return the book. I'm willing to give this a little time to shake out.)
I'd say this book is a 50K foot view of FR. But I would have preferred a 1K foot view of at least ONE of the "classic" adventuring areas (i.e. Dalelands or Cormyr). The feeling I'm left with is one of casual knowledge. I really don't feel I have enough information to run my own detailed campaign in any of these settings.
The capital city of Cormyr has 4 paragraphs! I can't run an adventure in a capital city described in 4 paragraphs. If I wanted to "fill in the details," I wouldn't have bought a "Campaign Setting Guide."
It really seems unclear who this book is for. It seems to me; all you've done is ticked off your fan base, and confused new readers.
I'm not looking for something on the scale of Monte Cook's Ptolus campaign setting (though PLEASE let him convert that to 4E!-I'd return this in a heartbeat).
In summary: Careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
I wanted a "fresh start" on FR. Not a blank slate with a few scratches.
Overall, I'm very disappointed and wouldn't recommend this product.
-There's like a balance scale. On one side, you have everything laid out for you. On the other side, you have nothing laid out for you. Optimally, the balance would be in the middle. In this case, based on so many complaints from people who are pro- and anti-, the amount of information leans too heavily to one side (the nothing laid out for you). And, that's not a good thing.
Pretty fair assessment... I think it also further plays out down the line of what people "do" with the book. Those looking at it from a purely DMing/Gaming point of view tend to have nicer things to say about it then those who are more interested in the Realmslore/story-telling point of view. Which is completely understandable. Since I mostly interested in the DMing side of things it's actually a good thing for me.
Pretty fair assessment... I think it also further plays out down the line of what people "do" with the book. Those looking at it from a purely DMing/Gaming point of view tend to have nicer things to say about it then those who are more interested in the Realmslore/story-telling point of view. Which is completely understandable. Since I mostly interested in the DMing side of things it's actually a good thing for me.
-Plenty of people who are interested in DMing are still complaining about the lack of information to work with.
There is a practical trade off. The more you focus on specifics, the less page count you have to cover the rest of the setting.
Overall I think it has a 1st Edition Gray Box feel to it. We get blurbs about various places and the rest is up to the DM. Of course not everyone will like this style, but I don't think that's proof the book is "deficient" of information.
The thing is it's not that light on information.
-Having flipped through it now, I'll disagree, in that it simply doesn't provide enough information. The deity section being the most egregious of all of it.
-A tour guide, which campaign settings are akin to, shouldn't "forget" to mention important places. Certain sections that have changed a lot also suffer from this. The "common places" (The Silver Marches, Waterdeep) don't, though. That's unfortunate, as we have plenty of information about them already.
The deity section....seems reasonably complete. I think I see where you're coming from in that we only got descriptions for the eighteen Greater Gods, one God and one Exarch.
The rest are relegated to a two page Pantheon of the World list (that includes the Primordials and Archdevils of the Nine Hells), for a total of 88 entires.
There's numerous "important" places listed. Nothing leaps out as having been skipped (to my eyes) in that regard.
-Yes, I said as much. The "important" places (which also happen to be the ones that have traditionally gotten the most coverage) have a decent amount of coverage. The somewhat obscure/less important places...The Great Glaciers of the world, the Chults of the world, the Turmishes of the world. These are generally the places that are changed the most, and there isn't enough coverage on these places.
The deity section....seems reasonably complete. I think I see where you're coming from in that we only got descriptions for the eighteen Greater Gods, one God and one Exarch.
-It's lacking in two ways:
1) The obvious absence of so many other deities, without explanations. Someone who doesn't participate here doesn't know what Rich said about that.
2) The lack of description for the majority of the entities that are in the book, especially the "lower tier" people.
For players knowledgeable about the setting, I think the setup gives them enough information to figure out that they can easily add back in missing divinities as Exarchs or Gods.
From page 70: "Much like their mortal worshippers, the gods seek and break alliances, fight, love, hate and even kill, absorb, or resurrect each other.
That said, I don't think adding in specific info like what Rich mentioned previously would have hurt the word count all that much.
For point 2, yeah, I'd have liked a bit more info about each of the Gods and Exarchs. Fortunately the table on page 81 does give us decent (IMO) information, including what names priests are called (worshippers of Lliira are called joydancers) and what adjectife to use to describe them (Lliiran).
As to your first point, I don't think that will "hurt" new DMs or players.
-In such that they don't have the full scoop of the area, sure.
For point 2, yeah, I'd have liked a bit more info about each of the Gods and Exarchs. Fortunately the table on page 81 does give us decent (IMO) information, including what names priests are called (worshippers of Lliira are called joydancers) and what adjectife to use to describe them (Lliiran).
-That was probably the best thing in the book, I think. The way that was done, anyway. I would have liked that to be coupled with Demihuman Deities, Faiths & Avatars and Powers & Pantheon style and amount of information, but...Wishful thinking.
Places like Waterdeep must be covered just as they have been before.
Making the book assume people are realmslore experts or own the previous books isn't really reasonable. The book has to assume that it can be functional for someone who is new to the Realms and doesn't own a previous book.
-Which doesn't change the fact that the places with the most information are still receiving more information, and that places that have generally been neglected are still having their corners cut. That a person have the books or not, that doesn't stop it.
#1 That room could have been used to further flesh-out the main campaign areas, like the Heartlands, and...
#2 I doubt 5% of the people buying that book will ever go there.
Returned Abeir may be a swell place, but the Realms are about FAER
What I'm left with, is the overall feeling that this book was really written for those already familiar with the Realms, and just updating that information.
As someone who doesn't know Scardale from Daggerdale, I'm left with the contradiction of having a bunch of information and still knowing nothing.
They couldn't throw a couple of "Capital" city maps of the main kingdoms? I don't need a "general framework" of a campaign world, I need the details. I know more about Fallcrest then Suzail. At this point, the generic "world" seems more fleshed out in the DMG and Dungeon articles then FR is in this campaign book.
I find that classic. :D
You quoted EVERYTHING he said... and obviously didn't read any of it.
Yes you are correct. I didn't completely read it. I stand corrected. Post adjusted :embarrass
There is a practical trade off. The more you focus on specifics, the less page count you have to cover the rest of the setting.
And another factor is the font size. Compared to 3e FR, the font size is much larger which inhibits the designers ability to fill in more content (or does it mean they're lazy?). Campaign guides tend to have smaller fonts because of the wealth of information they must cover.
Maybe I'm just getting older, but I sure as heck don't mind the bigger font at all.
;)
Gods, I know. It's hard to read the 3E FRCS and the 2E FR Campaign Books from the boxed set.
Maybe I'm just getting older, but I sure as heck don't mind the bigger font at all.
;)
Can't argue with that. Sometimes I like to read something easy on the eyes. If only WotC would have more than 2 books per setting so they can expand. But they shot themselves in the foot there IMO.
Yeah, only two books isn't great, IMO. Maybe with the internal shake up at WotC we'll also see a reorganization of their publishing priorities?
Hi ssvegeta555,
Yeah, only to books isn't great, IMO. Maybe with the internal shake up at WotC we'll also see a reorganization of their publishing priorities?
I think it has to do with two reasons.
1: They're releasing a new setting each year, and that would make it hard to come out with expanded material for more than 2 settings.
2: They don't want to flood players with too many books.
But if FR4e is any indication, I can't wait for Ebberon-Lite. :P
Yeah, only two books isn't great, IMO. Maybe with the internal shake up at WotC we'll also see a reorganization of their publishing priorities?
-Doubtful.
-Doubtful.
When they do decide to release another FR book beyond the Player's Guide (which I'm betting they will) you have to give me a
.When they do decide to release another FR book beyond the Player's Guide (which I'm betting they will) you have to give me a
I get one too, and one when they either bring back Mystra, or ascend the new god of magic.
Ooohhh.... Maybe Elminster has finally ascended, and he is just a little overwhelmed after already having turned down the job once, so he is just trying to pretend it didn't happen, and that all the voices in his head are from the past, and not thousands of would be worshipers calling out to him.
-- George Krashos
Fluff to crunch ratio is about right for a campaign book although a bit jarring after the FRCS and the little teasers have me eager for my players guide. (But see below bad points).
Overall 7.5-8.0/10 (See below for lost points).
Not a bad first campaign guide but I hope they learn from their mistakes before the next one (particularly if they do Birthright :D )
Bad
- Chapter 1: Loudwater. I really like this chapter, good adventure hooks and interesting NPC's/Locale for my PC's base of operation. Why isn't it a web enhancement? Wastes 32 pages that could have been allocated to other chapters.
- Chapter 4: Cosmology. I love the new cosmology, never a fan of plane hopping in previous editions unless I was playing Planescape, now I actually drool at the thought of my players in a faerie court or lost in the shadowfell. However, as previously mentioned where are the gods write ups? They only need to be as long as the Greater gods and would be far more useful than chapter 1, I can live without the exarchs if I must but only including greater deities is bunk.
- General complaint: I'm fine with the level of detail in the FRCG, IF they intended to produce more books. Since we're only seeing two books (barring market demand) then areas such as returned Abeir are far to light in detail to be useful to new DM's. If you need to spend a couple of weeks writing up that detail yourself then you might as well start from scratch and skip this book.
When they do decide to release another FR book beyond the Player's Guide (which I'm betting they will) you have to give me a
-Nope.
In general those of you who are realms experts/old timers didn't get the book you wanted, no not everyone but that seems to be general idea. For those of us who were hoping that this 'new' realms would let us get into the realms in the same way the original campaign let you all get into things, at least that was my hope, it doesn't seem to work either.
As it stands now, the books main use is either for DMs who want to take some of the material and use it in their own campaign settings. Or those who already have a firm background in realms lore who have no problem jumping forward with the setting because they likely haven't been using every piece of core information in their own campaigns for years anyhow.
For those of us who bought the book expecting a campaign setting, we are left highly disappointed. I can run a game with the material in the book, but it will be a home brewed campaign I call the Forgotten Realms, not a universal campaign setting.
As someone else said, WOTC deciding going to the extreme of over saturation of information was a bad idea, and not helpful in attracting new players, and went to far to the other side in not providing details. I don't need the amount of detail the 3rd edition FRCS(and all the following additional material ) provided, but expected more then the book provides.