So I have the book...
Basically the setup reminds me of Ishtar and the Kingpriest with the High Observer keeping watch over the entire state; the laws are ultra strict and anyone who breaks them can risk being thrown into a dungeon; as a whole the theocracy is utterly convinced of its righteousness...Kingpriest style and deviations are not tolerated...very strange indeed....
18DELTA
-Well I can sleep easier tonight knowing this! :D So what do you think about the 4E FRCG?
18DELTA
Was hopeful but it is a bit of a let down...
I was so psyched about Torm but now...well...the deity descriptions are so brief it's pathetic...they need a book specifically about the gods...
Obviously I think this Ishtar thing sucks....:P
18DELTA ;)
Hmm, well this does suck. Ah well. I was already prepared for this, and was wearing a cup just for this occasion.
Your balls are important after all...;)
!!!!18DELTA :raincloud
-
18DELTA :raincloud
:P This is... pretty disappointing. I suspected I'd probably end up regretting ever opening my mouth, although the scenarios I pictured were far worse in my mind (For one, I was sweating bullets over the thought that Torm would inherit Tyr's marriage to Tymora, somehow). Either way, doesn't really matter. As I've said before, it doesn't really affect me as I'm not planning on playing in the 4E Realms with the exception of LFR. Any Realms game I run is going to be far, far different. And any game I play in, I'll make some helpful "suggestions" as to the shape of the campaign. ;)
End of the day, the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide is what I REALLY want, as that'll convert several Prestige Classes to Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies, as well as provide 4E stats for Drow and Genasi, convert some spells to Rituals, and a few other things which I'm certain I'll find very useful when I play in the Realms with the 4E ruleset. Though after getting some details, the Campaign Guide has turned out to be a bit more useful by statting up Szass Tam and a few other bad guys.
(edit: sorry, didn't realize I was double posting this - twas late and I was tired, and my connection was glitchy, so I wasn't sure I had posted it before.)
:P This is... pretty disappointing.
-Regardless of his mortal followers, an empowered Torm is a good thing.
Of course. How else will I ensure my genetic dominance over the course of the next couple of millennia?
So THAT'S what you meant when you said you were wearing a "cup".:P
Regarding the topic--I like what I did with this area of the Realms better (what a surprise, eh?), so I think I'll keep my version.
So THAT'S what you meant when you said you were wearing a "cup".:P
Rest assured, you may tell the ladies in the secretarial pool that their hopes have not been dashed.
Sounds like the kind of place I'd like to live.
I salute the depiction of Torm's theocracy.
Sounds like the kind of place I'd like to live.
Well, that makes one of us.
Well, that makes one of us.
Well I don't get the non-appeal. It's a place of Lawful Good where the laws are enforced and everyone protects everyone and presumably the laws are actually good laws or it wouldn't be a GOOD state. So what we've got is a clean, efficient, non-Bureaucratic state that actually bothers enforcing the law.
In the Realms, do you really want to trust secular government?
In the Realms, do you really want to trust secular government?
Why not?
Same deal with Elturgard. It could go bad. Their persecution of evil religions may end up some day extending to other religions which are defined as evil simply because they're different, and their plans to set Faerun aright may end up blazing a tyrannical path. But they're not at that point, and may never reach that point. One hopes that, after Tenwealth, that Torm's keeping a steady eye on things. Altogether not so bad, although they're a bit silly in their goodness (like fining people for swearing. "John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute.").
All around, though, if they were going to create a Tormish theocracy, then it really should've been based around Tantras (which had no mention of Torm whatsoever in its entry). Elturgard would've made more sense based around Amaunator.
Why not?
Bluntly, in a realm of objective good and evil, I can't see the appeal. Part of the fun of Waterdeep is that an attempt by the people to run a Democratic and Capitalist run state ended up as such a disaster that its viewed as the worst form of government possible.
With Torm looking over my shoulder, I trust the priests a thousand times better than I trust the Cormyr dynasty.
Let's not forget what happened to Sembia.
Bluntly, in a realm of objective good and evil, I can't see the appeal. Part of the fun of Waterdeep is that an attempt by the people to run a Democratic and Capitalist run state ended up as such a disaster that its viewed as the worst form of government possible.
With Torm looking over my shoulder, I trust the priests a thousand times better than I trust the Cormyr dynasty.
Let's not forget what happened to Sembia.
You're saying what happened to Sembia happened because it wasn't a theocracy?
What about the secular governments in the Realms that didn't get screwed over, including Cormyr?
You're saying what happened to Sembia happened because it wasn't a theocracy?
What about the secular governments in the Realms that didn't get screwed over, including Cormyr?
1. I'm saying that Sembia is the big secular government and we saw what a corrupt and festering cesspit it became.
2. and Cormyr's situation is hardly ideal right now.
Actually, my statement is that a Theocracy of a Good God is the ideal government in the realms where Torm can just pop down and stab the bad guy. This is, however, operating on comic book logic rather than people trying to make a statement about organized religion.
The Realms is like the Discworld. In the real world, atheism is a valid form of belief to pursue even if you don't hold it like me. In the Realms, the gods may go and break your windows just for spite.
Altogether not so bad, although they're a bit silly in their goodness (like fining people for swearing. "John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute.").
Yes, that rubs me the wrong way.
Yes, that rubs me the wrong way.
Though one can imagine that, every 15th of Marpenoth, that place becomes crazier than New Orleans during Mardi Gras.
1. I'm saying that Sembia is the big secular government and we saw what a corrupt and festering cesspit it became.
My point is that it does not follow that Sembia became corrupt and succombed to the Shades because it was a secular goverment, so I don't think using it as an example is an effective way to convince me that theocracies are better.
Actually, my statement is that a Theocracy of a Good God is the ideal government in the realms where Torm can just pop down and stab the bad guy.
My impression about the gods in the Realms is that they mostly act through their followers. I think we've had this discussion before.
My point is that it does not follow that Sembia became corrupt and succombed to the Shades because it was a secular goverment, so I don't think using it as an example is an effective way to convince me that theocracies are better.
I'm just saying what's the problem with Theocracies? The secular government has no protection against evil deities is what I'm saying or divine guidance against their movements. Theocracies do.
In real life, they usually put in a bunch of frothing fanatics who get to power by being zealous and then grind people to dust in their idealogical swill.
In the Realms, you might have something different.
I'm just saying what's the problem with Theocracies? The secular government has no protection against evil deities is what I'm saying or divine guidance against their movements. Theocracies do.
Even if divine protection is desired, a theocratic government is not needed.
Even if divine protection is desired, a theocratic government is not needed.
Needed? Probably not. DESIRED? That's the question.
Of course, Rinonalyrna, I can also imagine Tormtown isn't necessarilly a FUN place to be either and that people who aren't deeply into Tormism 24-7 may hate it. No one likes having their shoulders looked over at all times.
On the other hand, that's a rigidly Lawful society that's been objected to.
It might also be boring as all get out.
Needed? Probably not. DESIRED? That's the question.
Well, you already know where *I* stand on that, at least in the case of this particular type of theocracy.
Of course, Rinonalyrna, I can also imagine Tormtown isn't necessarilly a FUN place to be either and that people who aren't deeply into Tormism 24-7 may hate it. No one likes having their shoulders looked over at all times.
I don't think that kind of place fits in with the spirit of that part of the Western Heartlands. Fines for swearing? Come on...
I don't think that kind of place fits in with the spirit of that part of the Western Heartlands. Fines for swearing? Come on...
Ironically, I'd already had a Lathander Theocracy in the region. Of course, the fun part of that city was that part of the appeal of Lathander was that everyone got free healing so long as they obeyed.
Still, I can imagine the fun of visiting the city.
Game Master: A farmer stubs his toe. "OH DARNIT! OW! Dang! Heck!"
Player character: "Pardon?"
Dwarf Player character: "This place is unnatural! We should flee!"
Ironically, I'd already had a Lathander Theocracy in the region.
Well, it's your Realms.
