Bane, Bhaal, Myrkul, Mystra I, Mystra II, Finder Wyvernspur, just to name a few.
So they were all mortals at one time or another correct?
yes, they were all mortal once.
also; Cyric, Kelemvor, and Velsharoon.
How do you become a God though? Does AO admit you after some trial test?
How do you become a God though? Does AO admit you after some trial test?
Normally, you need a divine sponsor first, and then permission from AO.
There have been a couple of cases without the first, but theoretically the second is always required.
Does AO admit you after some trial test?
It varies, though Ao has the final say.
Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul ascended after Jergal basically lost his godhood him to them in a bet (thats a simplification, but true).
Cyric was awarded the divine portfolios of Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul by Ao when they were killed in the Time of Troubles. Mystra II likewise go Mystra I's Godhood after she died in the ToT.
Kelevmor got his godhood after the portfolio of "the Dead" was taken away from Cyric and given to Kelemvor by Ao.
Velsharoon got his godhood through an ancient ritual, with the sponsorship of Talos.
Wasn't Torm originally a mortal who ascended, too? As part of the backstory I mean, rather than in the course of the storyline the way Kelemvor et al did.
I believe you are correct.
I believe you are correct.
Just after the fall of Netheril...
-RW
Well technically Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul took a portion of divine essense before going after Jergal. They planned to fight him for his portfolios, but he was tired of the position, and gave it up willingly. He just made a game out of it, to see who would get what.
Yeah, thats why I said simplification. Didn't feel like getting into the whole thing ;)
Bel
I could have swore Tempus was a mortal at one time, but I can't find anything stating fact on it. Didn't he gain the portfolio by going head-to-head with its predecessor? Or is this just something that disappeared between 2e and 3e?
The legend of Valkur says he was a sea captain who went head to head with Umberlee and won, it's similar.
Bel
It's touched on that Mask was mortal in the book shadowrealm (I think that's it, latest Cale book) when Erevis and Mask are in the alley having an.. oh let's say chat.
Yeah, but very hands off. Though, I say it fits the bill completely.
The legend of Valkur says he was a sea captain who went head to head with Umberlee and won, it's similar.
Bel
What I remember was that he outwitted the current god through strategy--as the god of war was all out combat and nothing else.
Tempus arose from the first battle between Selune and Shar, one of many such war deities to walk the world. In time, he defeated each and every one of his rivals in battle, the last of which was Garagos the Reaver. Some oracles claim that in years to come Tempus may find himself at war with Anhur as the Faerunian and Mulhorandi pantheons clash and (inevitably) merge. In recent years, Tempus sponsored the divinity of the Red Knight, a relationship akin to that of a fond and protective father to a brilliant daughter who works hard at the family business-- war. The Foehammer is casually friendly with martially inclined deities such as Nobanion, Gond, Valkur, and Uthgar. He considers Eldath, his diametric opposite, to be naive and weak. However, out of respect of her convictions, he punishes those of his faithful who abuse her clergy, shrines, or temples, feeling that war has little meaning without peace to define and highlight it. Sune, who considers him a foe, he regards as irrelevant and flighty and therefore unworthy of active opposition. It is unclear why Tempus tolerates the continued survival of Garagos, although some sages have speculated that Tempus knows that a new challenger is inevitable and he prefers to use the Reaver as a stalking horse to draw out such potential foes. Others claim that Garagos represents that one bit of warfare that Tempus finds personally distasteful, the savage madness of a battle rage, and that he deliberately ceded that aspect of the portfolio of war, though he is still worshiped by many barbarians.
Bel
Every source I checked has him originating from the conflict between Selune and Shar.
Bel
Yeah, I read that, too--which is why I made the question. This is not what I remembered from before.
Now I have to wonder if a DM fed me this crap or what.
Also, Mask never states that he was originally a mortal at any point in the Cale novels. In the alley he tells Cale that "he was a God who once thought he was mortal."
- ME!
- Mystra
- Mystra (Midnight)
- Red Knight
- Shevarash
- Azuth
- Savras
- Velsharoon
- Finder Wyvernspur
- Uthgar
- Torm
- Bane
- Bhaal
- Myrkul
- Cyric
- Kelemvor
:DBah, Karsus should just get honorable mention for mortal to god!!!
-Honorable mention? No one, in all of history, has done what I did. The chutzpah I had...Using magic to steal the powers of the deity of magic! Genius!
-Honorable mention? No one, in all of history, has done what I did. The chutzpah I had...Using magic to steal the powers of the deity of magic! Genius!
It only counts as genius if it works... The spell was foolish, since it caused the downfall of an entire civilization.
It only counts as genius if it works... The spell was foolish, since it caused the downfall of an entire civilization.
-How many times do we need to explain this to you? Being a Psion, you'd think your INT was high- The spell worked perfectly, everything as planned. It was Mystryl being stupid and killing herself that ruined everything.
:P
Tchazzar, who's become a quasi-deity (just shy of demi-god) by getting people to worship him, following the Dragon Ascendent PrC, and gaining Tiamat's sponsorship.
Maldraedior, who's doing the same, though in service to the dead dragon deity Kalzareinad.
Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul slew Borem of the Lake of Boiling Mud to gain their first slice of divinity, before going to see Jergal.
Iyachtu Xvim was the half-fiend son Bane. That probably doesn't quite count as being born a mortal though.
Gwareon Windstrom was once a mortal ranger of the North, who hunted down and slew an avatar of Malar, and was sponsored to godhood by Mielikki.
AIUI, Savras was never a mortal, he was a minor southern deity by the time Azuth defeated him (which was how Azuth ascended, sponsored by Mystra). Correction: Savras was once a mortal wizard of Halruaa. I keep forgetting that aside in Magic Of Faerun
Siamorphe is actually a succession of mortal nobles (male or female) chosen by the last Siamorphe to replace them when they begin to die off. Currently, she is Lady Siamorphe of Waterdeep. I don't know if the first Siamorphe was a mortal or natural deity though.
Kiaransalee was once a mortal drow necromancer. I'm not sure of the story though.
Deep Duerra was a mortal duergar queen to led the grey dwarves to victory against the mind flayers, fought Ilsensine and stole his secrets of psionics. Laduguer sponsored her to be a goddess, and his daughter.
Shevarash was an elven mortal who was raised to divinity by Fenmarel Mestarine for his crusade against the drow.
The Padhra used to be mortal, but it's hard to tell if he's really a deity at all. (Think Buddha).
The general pattern here is that one must:
a) Be a great hero, villain, someone powerful and influential. Do great deeds.
b) Get enough people to worship you, believe you, love you or fear you.
c) Do one of:
(i) Slay an existing deity, preferably a weak demi-god to make it easy, and take their stuff.
(ii) Have a retiring/dying deity pass their stuff on to you.
(iii) Be rewarded by an existing deity for your excellent service.
(iv) Stand against a deity and win, or at least survive.
d) Gain the sponsorship of an existing deity, though this is usually covered in (ii) or (iii), and isn't necessary in the case of (i).
e) Gain permission of Ao.
f) Ascend!
Of course, any of these steps may be omitted, depending on circumstances. Especially in the case of novel characters...
Kiaransalee was once a mortal drow necromancer. I'm not sure of the story though.
Kiaransalee achieved demi-godhood by deed alone. She was a mortal queen who was slighted by her husband. She raised an undead army that wipe out all life on her world in response. She escaped the Seldarine's judgement by hiding in the Abyss. Lloth fell, ensaring Kiaransalee in her web on her way down, blah blah ... every1 knows the rest.
Deep Duerra was a mortal duergar queen to led the grey dwarves to victory against the mind flayers, fought Ilsensine and stole his secrets of psionics. Laduguer sponsored her to be a goddess, and his daughter.
Actually, wasn't Deep Duerra a dwarf slave of the mind flayers, experimented upon and tortured until she lead a revolt that freed her and her people, the duergar? I thought thats why the subrace was named after her.
Actually, wasn't Deep Duerra a dwarf slave of the mind flayers, experimented upon and tortured until she lead a revolt that freed her and her people, the duergar? I thought thats why the subrace was named after her.
Clan Duergar* was originally a perfectly ordinary clan of dwarves in lived within the Deep Shanatar empire, though they took as their patron deity Laduguer (before his exile, I think). When the Mindstalker Wars with the Illithids erupted, they were cut off, and enslaved by the mind flayers. Over a few millenia, they were experimented on, given psionic abilites, and became the duergar we know and love today.
* Ironically, the dwarven naming guide in Races Of Stone retrospectively translates "duer gar" to "dark/darkness lurker/thief", so they seem to been predestined to their fate.
At this point myth and history get mixed up. The duergar seem to have revolted around -4000 DR. However, Duerra only first shows up on the historical record in -1850, where she is a duergar queen who led a series of assaults on the Undraeth drow, the Oryndoll illithids (where she stole many psionic secrets), and the dwarves of Deep Shanatar in the Kin Clashes. She ascended soon after.
Duergar legends however state that Duerra captured an illithid city, shackled the flayers and experimented on them to learn psionics. Likely this is a slight exaggeration of the historical war on Oryndoll.
The illithids however tell it differently, saying that Duerra was the leader of the original uprising, having gained her powers from their experiments. This is the version of the tale you mention.
There's over two thousand years between the two Duerras. Perhaps there really was two of them, and maybe the later one named herself after the first. Or maybe Duerra really did survive all that time, not outside the realms of possibility as this is a common occurrence in FR. Or the two myths have become conflated. I doubt the illithid really care about the names of their livestock, and might not have recorded the history correctly.
-How many times do we need to explain this to you? Being a Psion, you'd think your INT was high- The spell worked perfectly, everything as planned. It was Mystryl being stupid and killing herself that ruined everything.
:P
Yes, but doesn't it peeve you that Mystryl, believed that -you- were not capable of handling her power, and yet, when you both died, her divine essence fell down and struck a retarded farm girl?
Yes, that's right - a mentally retarded farm girl being cared for by her family was what replaced Mystryl, over you. :P
Bel
-How many times do we need to explain this to you? Being a Psion, you'd think your INT was high- The spell worked perfectly, everything as planned. It was Mystryl being stupid and killing herself that ruined everything.
:P
Let's see, you died, and the Phaerimm still turned Netheril into a desert, if that was a success, I would hate to see a failure.
Yes, but doesn't it peeve you that Mystryl, believed that -you- were not capable of handling her power, and yet, when you both died, her divine essence fell down and struck a retarded farm girl?
Yes, that's right - a mentally retarded farm girl being cared for by her family was what replaced Mystryl, over you. :P
-Well, she's dead, and I'm here, so I think I got the last laugh.
Let's see, you died, and the Phaerimm still turned Netheril into a desert, if that was a success, I would hate to see a failure.
-All of that is because of Mystryl killing herself. Yes or no, simple question: Did the spell work as intended?
Judge, read the Garagos info on pg 95 of the Faiths and Pantheons supplement. I think this is the predecessor battle with "a young demigod Tempus" that you are remembering. Tempus was born a god, but got stronger for defeating Garagos.
Yup. That was it exactly. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
And I just got done reading the Lady Penitent trilogy a couple of weeks ago. Did Halisstra actually make it to demigod status or was she just being Lloth's tool? I didn't follow that whole spiel very well.
And I just got done reading the Lady Penitent trilogy a couple of weeks ago. Did Halisstra actually make it to demigod status or was she just being Lloth's tool? I didn't follow that whole spiel very well.
-Well, she's dead now, so that doesn't matter much. From the way I saw it, she was, at first, Lolth's tool, very much like a Chosen, or a 2e Proxy. In the last book, she had a bit more sovereignty, and had deluded herself into thinking that she was a demideity, but really wasn't.
Well, she's dead, and I'm here, so I think I got the last laugh.
Wait until you begin to hear strange voices in your head. Some adverse reactions need time to show :P
Wait until you begin to hear strange voices in your head. Some adverse reactions need time to show :P
-Well, I'm still waiting, let's just say.
-Well, she's dead now, so that doesn't matter much. From the way I saw it, she was, at first, Lolth's tool, very much like a Chosen, or a 2e Proxy. In the last book, she had a bit more sovereignty, and had deluded herself into thinking that she was a demideity, but really wasn't.
Well, at the rate she was murdering her own followers, I would assume so, but with the way that last book played out, I wasn't sure of much concerning anything.
Thanks for the feedback.
-All of that is because of Mystryl killing herself. Yes or no, simple question: Did the spell work as intended?
No, else you would still be a god, and you would have been able to defeat the Phaerimm. Yes, you cast the spell succesfully, but you weren't quite sure what effect that success was going to have. Basically it was a wash, you succeeded on one hand and it caused a massive failure on the other.
No, else you would still be a god, and you would have been able to defeat the Phaerimm. Yes, you cast the spell succesfully, but you weren't quite sure what effect that success was going to have. Basically it was a wash, you succeeded on one hand and it caused a massive failure on the other.
-All I want is a yes or no answer: Was Karsus' Avatar successful in it's goal?
-All I want is a yes or no answer: Was Karsus' Avatar successful in it's goal?
NO
Level 12
Range: Unlimited
Duration: Unlimited
...
...
...
"...This spell allowed the caster to become a god of his choosing, replacing a current god with himself the moment the spell was completed..."
-This happened. Thus, the spell worked as intended. You are falling into the common pitfall of categorizing things that happened extraneously to the spell with the spell itself.
Dumb-assimar.
-It's because of people like you that Aasimar aren't Aasimar anymore...
:P-It's because of people like you that Aasimar aren't Aasimar anymore...
Not true! It is people like I that revolted against people like Aasimaar...not...being...Aasimaar...and things.
Damn you, WotC!!
As an old friend used to say: semantics
-Not really.
Not true! It is people like I that revolted against people like Aasimaar...not...being...Aasimaar...and things.
Damn you, WotC!!
-Wasn't there someone who had the screen name 'Dumb Aasimar', or is that just my imagination?
Azuth: Ascended mortal. Unclear where he was born. Possibly in the Calimshan region. His first temple was in Halruaa, I believe, but this is because he defeated Savras and the temple converted over to his worship.
Bane: Ascended mortal. But not from Toril. The novel Stormlight seems to indicate he was born on another world.
Chauntea: Created by Shar and Selune. Jannath was just one of her names. She is also called Earthmother.
Helm: Jhamdaathi pantheon
Ilmater: Ascended Mortal from the South, not the same as Ilmatar, not related to the Finnish pantheon in any way.
Kossuth: ascended elemental
Lathander: God of morning from the Talfiric pantheon in the Western Heartlands. Was worshiped in Athalantar over 1000 years ago. Has an unknown relationship with Amaunator.
Malar: possibly the son of Talos, mother may be Chauntea. I suspect he was born of a horrible act of ravishment perpetrated by Talos on Chauntea during the War of Light and Darkness.
Shaundakal: very ancient human deity, goes back as far at least as the ancient Rus.
Sune: My theory is that she is the daughter of Selûne and Lathander. Others have suggested she might be a fragment of Venus who interloped and changed her name.
Talos: One of the original fell forces that were spawned in the War of Light and Darkness.
Torm: Ascended mortal from Lake of Steam area (Border Kingdoms).
Umberlee: Probably Talfiric sea god.
Waukeen: About a thousand years old, give or take. Origin seems tied to the birth of Thorass as a trade language. Probably originated in Jhamdaath or around Lake of Steam area. Might be one of the daughters of Auppenser and Eldath.
Akadi: ascended air elemental
Auril: A nature god of winter. Very ancient, over 30,000 years old at least. While she may possibly be a native deity, I have a theory that she could possibly be one of the Greek Horae, maybe Xarpo, that interloped over with Tyche.
Deneir: Ascended mortal. Church founded in 25 DR. No idea where he was born.
Eldath: Possibly Jhamdathi in origin, very possibly a daughter of Silvanus.
Garagos: Probably a fragment of the original god of War that spawned in the War of Light and Darkness between Selûne and Shar. Garagos is likely the Jhaamdathi aspect. I think he was probably separate from Targus or that Targus was a fragment of him or the original War. Garagos seems to have slain or absorbed Targus after the fall of Netheril.
Grumbar: ascended earth elemental
Istishia: ascended water elemental
Jergal: Probably an ascended spellweaver or an interloper from the spellweaver pantheon. His worship may have been prominent in Chultenegar or the Lake of Steam area many thousands of years ago. At some point seems to have taken over the Death portfolio from the prior holder of the office.
Llira: Probably Jhaamdathi, possibly one of the daughters of Auppenser and Eldath.
Lurue: I think it likely she is an aspect of Mystryl as seen by the fey pantheon. In fact Mystryl maybe a fragment of her. Lurue may have been the original goddess of magic for Realmspace.
Milil: very likely Jhaamdathi, probably originally called Melith. Might be a son of Auppenser and Eldath.
Nobanion:Interloper. Definitely inspired by Aslan, though maybe not actually a fragment of the Narnian Aslan. Ed Greenwood has said he is also inspired by the coat of arms of the British crown, the lion and the unicorn, the unicorn being Lurue.
Savras: Was a Halruaan wizard before ascending to godhood.
Talona: Not an interloper. The original goddess of disease spawned by the War of Light and Darkness between Selûne and Shar.
Tiamat: Seems to have interloped twice. Both as a draconic deity and also following the Untheric gods from the homeworld of the Mulan. The two aspects would seem to have merged by this point.
Ubtao: Brought to Chult by the Tabaxi, who seem to have immigrated from the continent of Katashaka to the south of Maztica.
Valkur: Ascended human from Mintarn I believe, part of the Talfiric pantheon originally.
Kiaransalee achieved demi-godhood by deed alone. She was a mortal queen who was slighted by her husband. She raised an undead army that wipe out all life on her world in response. She escaped the Seldarine's judgement by hiding in the Abyss. Lloth fell, ensaring Kiaransalee in her web on her way down, blah blah ... every1 knows the rest.
I thought Kiaransalee was the daughter of Corellon Larethian. When did she become a mortal?
I would like to know if someone was able to create their own label of Godly status.
The answer to this is no
So far every single mortal who ascended to godly status did this with the involvment of someone who already was a deity. So far no mortal was able to create his own label of godly status without divine help.
Bane, Bhaal, Myrkul, Mystra I, Mystra II, Finder Wyvernspur, just to name a few.
Bane, Bhaal, Myrkul: received divinity as a gift from Jergal
Mystra I: Was simply Mystryl reincarnating herself
Mystra II: was chosen by Mystra I and confirmed by AO (rare case of him appearing visibly)
Cyric: was chosen by Ao for being at the right place at the right time
Finder: was sponsored by Tymora
Torm: was sponsored by Tyr
Red Knight: was sponsored by Tempus
Uthgarth: was sponsored by Tempus
Velsharoon: was sponsored by Talos
How do you become a God though? Does AO admit you after some trial test?
You usually do something that prompts an existing deity to sponsor you and then Ao has to approve (which mostly happens "invisibly", if you ascend he gave his OK, if not then he refused you. You usually don't see him or talk to him)
- Savras
Afaik Savras always was a deity, it was his rival Azuth who only ascended with the sponsorship of Mystra I
Karsus was a god for a moment as well, representing yet another path.
He is the closest to a mortal becoming a deity without an already divine sponsor. However his divinty would have been only temporary even if his spell had worked perfectly
Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul slew Borem of the Lake of Boiling Mud to gain their first slice of divinity, before going to see Jergal.
At this point they were already secretly sponsored by Jergal
No, else you would still be a god,
No, the spell was never able to make him a deity. All the spell could have done was to temporarily merge him with an existing deity and let him wield this deitie's power for the duration of being merged. At the end of the spell the merger would have ended (leaving the deity none the worse for the wear) and him as a mortal (if he's lucky) or as a corpse (more likely)
Karsus' Avatar
Level 12
Range: Unlimited
Duration: Unlimited
...
...
...
"...This spell allowed the caster to become a god of his choosing, replacing a current god with himself the moment the spell was completed..."
Which is actually the incorrect rules write-up of the spell from EoM. It's already clearly said in the preceding information about the spell that it's only temporary.
This spell, called Karsus’s avatar, was the only 12th-level spell ever created. It was designed to temporarily steal the powers of a deity.
The misstake of giving him an unlimited duration in the rules part was already corrected in 2e with the spell's second rules write-up in P&P and also confirmed as being of limited duration later in 3e sources
If all had worked like intended Karsus would have merged with Mystryl just long enough to direct her divine power to exterminate the phaerimm before being thrown out of their short symbiosis
I thought Kiaransalee was the daughter of Corellon Larethian. When did she become a mortal?
Eilistraee's the daughter of Corellon and Araushnee (Lolth). Kiaransalee has no business with Corellon, aside from her being an evil, undead drow deity (and the involved disagreements) ;)
I thought Kiaransalee was the daughter of Corellon Larethian. When did she become a mortal?
-Kiaransalee was always a mortal. You are confusing her with Eilistraee, who is the daughter of Corellon Larethian and Araushne. Kiaransalee was a necromancer queen from a world called Threnody, who became a deity, and fell under the sway of Lolth, the Spider Queen having met her, and forcibly subjugated her.
No, the spell was never able to make him a deity.
-Merging with a deity, which would...make him a deity.
-Merging with a deity, which would...make him a deity.
It just happened to take the power from the one god it shouldn't have, if it had targeted say, Jergal, then it might have worked.
It just happened to take the power from the one god it shouldn't have, if it had targeted say, Jergal, then it might have worked.
-It did work, however. Did the spell not function as advertised? Did Karsus not become the Momentary Deity?
At this point they were already secretly sponsored by Jergal
Got a source for this? I'm interested in reading more on the subject.
Torm: was sponsored by Tyr
Torm was a god before Tyr ever appeared in the Realms. The exact circumstances of his ascension are unknown, though it's safe to say Tyr had nothing to do with it, as Tyr didn't show up in Faerun til -247 DR, while Torm was already a god by -256 DR.
It just happened to take the power from the one god it shouldn't have, if it had targeted say, Jergal, then it might have worked.
Even then the spell would have ended at it's duration, seperating him from Jergal and probably killing Karsus in the process. Also Jergal could have ended the spell prematurely by doing the same "suicide-followed-by-reincarnation" thing Mystryl did, he just would have been less inclined to do so because sharing his power for a limited time with a mortal wouldn't have caused him so much hassle cleaning up afterwards.
Mystryl only chose like she did because just sitting it out would have damaged the weave too badly and made fixing everything afterward much harder
Got a source for this? I'm interested in reading more on the subject.
Faiths&Pantheons, the information about this artifact dagger. Jergal was watching them long before they made the decision to go after him and manipulated certain events in their favor. So it's likely to assume that also was with them in their confrontation with Borem (otherwise it would break the general rule about FR deities from the official web enhancement)
-How many times do we need to explain this to you? Being a Psion, you'd think your INT was high- The spell worked perfectly, everything as planned. It was Mystryl being stupid and killing herself that ruined everything.
:P
But you should have done your divinations correctly beforehand, and then you would have been able to get around that little....snafu
Just in order for the thread to be complete, though it's not exclusively ascended mortals, however.
Talona: Not an interloper. The original goddess of disease spawned by the War of Light and Darkness between Selûne and Shar.
Actually if Im remembering correctly, Talona is acended..the original was Kippiyutto and Talona killed her, taking her porfolio.
Actually if Im remembering correctly, Talona is acended..the original was Kippiyutto and Talona killed her, taking her porfolio.
On Hallowed Ground says that Kiputytto was a finnish deity, killed by Talona in battle over identical spheres.
-Wasn't there someone who had the screen name 'Dumb Aasimar', or is that just my imagination?
Believe it was Ody jokin’.
Whoever it was jumped out when I asked what “dumbassimar” thought he was being anything but an “assimar” for showin’ up.
On Hallowed Ground says that Kiputytto was a finnish deity, killed by Talona in battle over identical spheres.
Ka-put.
And Lady Penitent is not a god, it's a Chosen.
AIUI, Savras was never a mortal, he was a minor southern deity by the time Azuth defeated him (which was how Azuth ascended, sponsored by Mystra).
Correction: Savras was once a mortal wizard of Halruaa. I keep forgetting that aside in Magic Of Faerun
Apologies.
It's touched on that Mask was mortal in the book shadowrealm (I think that's it, latest Cale book) when Erevis and Mask are in the alley having an.. oh let's say chat.
No, it was said. He was a God trying to be a mortal. It never stated he was a mortal.