I think that was in the preview book, or maybe in one of those early articles...
Yugoloths were just lying to everbody, and they were Demons all along.
I kid you not.
Now I'm confused.
They are Daemons, right? Like the Demodands...
I am not sure where I read that, so I am apologize for not giving a course.
I think one of the designers said so at some point.
Actually, I'm pretty sure they just became Demons.
I think that was in the preview book, or maybe in one of those early articles...
Yugoloths were just lying to everbody, and they were Demons all along.
I kid you not.
Yeah, that's what i heard too.
Doesn't matter to me one way or another to be honest, I stopped paying attention to all things planar once they ditched the Planescape concept... so it stopped being relevant since 2e for me.
I think the 4ed. folks are hoping for a miracle.
No Bloodwar...
No Yugoloths...
No REAL difference in the alignment system...
I guess they like taking chances...;)
I'll ignore this bs, loths are too complex for 4e
-Good point.
Although of course, their roles are definitely going to become more "defined" (as with every other monster in the game). One point that is repeated over and over again by the designers is that they want to avoid elements in the game that seem repetitive and/or indistinct.
18DELTA:D
-Check this out.
18DELTA:D
whoa
yugodemons, lol
in terms of quality 4e loths = yugo 45
whoa
yugodemons, lol
in terms of quality 4e loths = yugo 45
-:OMG!
I never want to see one of those again. That's why Communism fell!!!(A good thing):P TO FUNNY!!!:D 18DELTA;)
-:OMG!
18DELTA;)
Yugoloths?
And China, Cuba and North Korea's still about!
And China, Cuba and North Korea's still about!
-Wasn't I just saying last night how it was all the Communists fault? :P
'Loths would have made better Devils, if anything.
As they say: "Word!"
The reasons for the decision in the preview book were that the old 1e name for the 'loths: daemons, was pronounced demons, so it made sense based on that. Of course the only published pronunciation for the 1e daemons pronounced it daymon, not demon.
The other reason given was that since the first 1e daemons appeared in the the module Queen of the Demonweb Pits, and the drow were CE, and the daemons they had summoned were working for them... it made perfect sense for the yugoloths in 4e to be CE demons. Back to their roots supposedly. Of course the fact that the module explicitely stated that those daemons were natives of Hades and Gehenna, and equally likely to be found in the Abyss of the 9 Hells and had no special connection to either of those latter planes is curiously overlooked for the 4e rationalization.
In my opinion the reasons for the 4e changes don't hold water if you're familiar with those sources. It seems to be change for the sake of change, and I can't say I'm very impressed with the substance of the 4e planar material (with slim exception like the changes made to the gelugon and its backstory).
The reasons for the decision in the preview book were that the old 1e name for the 'loths: daemons, was pronounced demons, so it made sense based on that. Of course the only published pronunciation for the 1e daemons pronounced it daymon, not demon.
-I know I've never pronounced it 'Demon'. The 'ae' makes a 'ay' sound.
That being said, Shemmy's reasons for 4E's switching them to "demons" makes me laugh. It's like a bunch of elementary school kids thinking they're slick, with the teacher just shaking his head behind them.
Like in Aesir.
That being said, Shemmy's reasons for 4E's switching them to "demons" makes me laugh. It's like a bunch of elementary school kids thinking they're slick, with the teacher just shaking his head behind them.
Hae mutationes novae non mihi placent. Cur longam historiam huius mundi annullare volunt? Nonne intelligunt omnes mutationes istae ut periculum magnum pro futuro huius venalicii sint?
I can understand most of that, but can't reply.
Suffice it to say, the changes are unintelligent, and they don't care about the history of the world.
I should really take a Latin WRITING class one day.
I can understand most of that, but can't reply.
Suffice it to say, the changes are unintelligent, and they don't care about the history of the world.
Yes, composition is important but particle physics is more important. Don't mind me. Weirdo Sum!
Basically it steals away any sense of realism from a fantasy setting...fantasy needs realism for the RPG experience...
And I agree 100%.
Weirdi sumus. ;)
And I agree 100%.
That particle physics is more important than Latin composition or the bit about realism in a fantasy setting?
The other reason given was that since the first 1e daemons appeared in the the module Queen of the Demonweb Pits, and the drow were CE, and the daemons they had summoned were working for them... it made perfect sense for the yugoloths in 4e to be CE demons. Back to their roots supposedly. Of course the fact that the module explicitely stated that those daemons were natives of Hades and Gehenna, and equally likely to be found in the Abyss of the 9 Hells and had no special connection to either of those latter planes is curiously overlooked for the 4e rationalization.
Wow, that is odd.
When in all likelihood yugoloths in the Realms only experience the cosmetic changes to their stats, you might as well presume nothing's changed at all, regardless of core fluff.
I don't have the book yet, but would like to use them for the first time 11+ lvl. adventure
thanks
-I know I've never pronounced it 'Demon'. The 'ae' makes a 'ay' sound.
"Demon" is anyways not the term that makes the distinction. Its more important to define Yugolothe as Tanar'ri or Baatezu. From my point of view the Baatezu are just the antithesis to the celestials and therefore operate in the same sphere. Their sphere is "higher consciousness". They deal with everything on a philosophical layer. Yes even devils are philosophers. You can argue with a harvester devil, but on the other hand you cant argue with a Glabrezu. They dont care if their actions have "meaning" or not and they do not put any value on the implied "intend" of a deed or a speech. Tanar'ri act on instinct, the instict to destroy for destruction's sake. I found the distinction between the "divinly evil" and the "primordial evil" a very nice addition to the cosmology by the 4th edition release. This distinction clearly puts the Succubi and Inccubi on the Baatezus' side and I believe its absolutelly correct for the same reason to put the Yugolothe to the Tanar'ri side. They have this instinctive approach to things as well.
can anyone describe how are the daemons from MotP different statwise than in 3e
Raavasta (ex arcanaloth)
observer, lvl. 19 lurker
it has claws of blindness
mind lure (psychic, target slides 5 squares and grants combat advantage to the raavasta observer until the end of the target’s next turn)
Change Shape (minor, at will)
Cloak and Claw (The raavasta observer deals an extra 2d6 damage against a
target when it makes an attack while it has total concealment)
Vanish (immediate reaction, when an enemy hits; recharge, Illusion, shifts 3 squares and is invisible until the end of its next turn or until it attacks.)
Equipment fine clothing (lol)
conniver lvl. 23 elite controller
claws of blindness, change shape, vanish
+
mind stab (encounter, fear, psychic, close burst 5, targets enemies, +28 vs. Will; 5d6 + 9 ...)
enforce contract (immediate reaction, recharge when bind, charm, ends the bind effect)
bind (minor psychic charm; recharges when enforce contract is used, ranged sight; no attack roll required; the target chooses to take ongoing 20 psychic damage (save ends) or be dominated (save ends)
it's different, no teleport and shapechange etc.
"Demon" is anyways not the term that makes the distinction. Its more important to define Yugolothe as Tanar'ri or Baatezu. From my point of view the Baatezu are just the antithesis to the celestials and therefore operate in the same sphere. Their sphere is "higher consciousness". They deal with everything on a philosophical layer. Yes even devils are philosophers. You can argue with a harvester devil, but on the other hand you cant argue with a Glabrezu. They dont care if their actions have "meaning" or not and they do not put any value on the implied "intend" of a deed or a speech. Tanar'ri act on instinct, the instict to destroy for destruction's sake. I found the distinction between the "divinly evil" and the "primordial evil" a very nice addition to the cosmology by the 4th edition release. This distinction clearly puts the Succubi and Inccubi on the Baatezus' side and I believe its absolutelly correct for the same reason to put the Yugolothe to the Tanar'ri side. They have this instinctive approach to things as well.
-All of which may indeed be very true, but...What relevance does it have to me talking about how I pronounce "Daemon"? I mean, that's all that was quoted, and I didn't go back and look at the context...
-All of which may indeed be very true, but...What relevance does it have to me talking about how I pronounce "Daemon"? I mean, that's all that was quoted, and I didn't go back and look at the context...
That's fine to me. I just took your post to quote something and the button for yours was the closest. ^^