Could someone please remind me of the official Dale-reckoning date in 1372 when the Halruaan Zalathorm was resurrected after the Wizardwar conflict with Akhlaur? My copy of the book is AWOL and I find myself needing the information. Thanks.
Happened on the 7th day of Flamerule
or no wait thats the date of their death.
ok yeah that's right they resurected him on the sameday.
I really miss Haluura
Ninja'ed. Drats. The summer of the Year of Wild Magic, Flamerule 7 1372 to be exact.
Pretty cool stuff. Those Halruaan wizardduels almost always cripple or kill.
Thank you both. for your quick replies. 
Counselors and Kings series right?
By Shar's will I will read these one day before the END!
Right. It is Cousellors and Kings. One of my favourite Elaine trilogies, even if it made me squirm a bit in parts. Ah how I miss Halruaa and Matteo and Tzigone.
One of the most iconic Realms without being in the middle of Faerun.
::Pours one to the ground for old Halruaa::
One of the most iconic Realms without being in the middle of Faerun.
::Pours one to the ground for old Halruaa::
It's only dead if you make it so. Halruaa still lives and prospers in my 4E 1479 DR Realms.
True, so true Shoony!
Don't get me wrong. Halruaa is fine and well in my games (that is if I still ran FR games). Actually fine and well is debatable, but it's still intact.
I meant the official Halruaa, which is what the new fans will know Halruaa as.
I meant the official Halruaa, which is what the new fans will know Halruaa as.
All too true, the previous responses to which would be covered under the Tropes section in my sig, if we still had sblocks. Reproduced for the uninitiated:
"It's Your Realms" (so any official changes shouldn't matter): The most used discussion trope. To be compared (in overuse terms) with "In My Humble Opinion" and now that aliens from the next galaxy understand the concept it really doesn't need to be invoked.
In a way it is distantly related to, I think, the Oberoni Fallacy that suggests that just because you can houserule something from broken to not-broken that doesn't mean it isn't broken in RAW. In this case it applies because just because you can fix Halruaa in your own game, that does not make it any less unpalatable that it exploded in the first place.
I meant the official Halruaa, which is what the new fans will know Halruaa as.
All too true, the previous responses to which would be covered under the Tropes section in my sig, if we still had sblocks. Reproduced for the uninitiated:
"It's Your Realms" (so any official changes shouldn't matter): The most used discussion trope. To be compared (in overuse terms) with "In My Humble Opinion" and now that aliens from the next galaxy understand the concept it really doesn't need to be invoked.
In a way it is distantly related to, I think, the Oberoni Fallacy that suggests that just because you can houserule something from broken to not-broken that doesn't mean it isn't broken in RAW. In this case it applies because just because you can fix Halruaa in your own game, that does not make it any less unpalatable that it exploded in the first place.
.... 'kay.
Whats the old saying: NOT IN MY REALMS!
They should have a Halruaa background that you can pick, maybe something like you get wizard cantrips or a boost to wizard powers or you can multiclass as a wizard without it counting against your multiclass limit. I could see this applying if Halruaa still exsists in your campaign or not. I mean every single Halruaan mage wasn't in Halruaa when it sploded, some where probably on diplomatic missions or some probably just out adventuring (any one remeber the comic book with the dude and his Halruaan skyship?) The bloodline of Halruaa should defiantly live on. The Five Companies don't count. What a bunch of ****s. They Give Halruaa a bad name.
Luckily for me, my game is still 3.X, so I worry not about these problems. 
Such wonderful Bitterness and Loss. Shar is most pleased
Can she feel pleased. Isn't that the antithesis of bitterness, sorrow, hopelessness and despair?
Can she feel pleased. Isn't that the antithesis of bitterness, sorrow, hopelessness and despair?
It's funny. I was going to make this same comment earlier. Shar cannot be pleased by anything. She is the epitome of despair. Simply put, nothing she does can bring her pleasure of any kind, since that would compromise her despair and bitterness. So, she does things for no real reason. How... Cyricist of her.
She can, otherwise she would kill herself.
Quale#45
what happened to your penis looking alien guy?
She can, otherwise she would kill herself.
Nah. Cuz she knows her death would be pleasant to others, so she sticks around to scorn them. And, like I said, pleasure of basically any kind is anathema to her (-> sorrow, despair, loss). The only way I can see her actually feeling pleasure is in a way that feeds off her vindictiveness. So, if she can feel pleasure in another way, I think she must really kick herself for feeling something she finds antithetical. She and her clergy have really pushed that whole "Pleasure is false. There is only sorrow and loss" motto. Don't get me wrong, what Shar does would merit pleasure (to an evil deity), but I think she's too wrapped up in her sadness schtick to actually feel anything uplifting.
But, that's just me. 
That's not how I see Shar at all. Granted, I don't imagine she is a very joyful or happy deity. I imagine her as being somewhat emotionally barren. She may still feel a full range of emotions (both good and bad) but makes a conscious choice to ignore them. An exception to this rule would be bitterness and vindictiveness, which are likely key emotions that motivate her actions.
In my mind, the negative emotions surrounding loss and the abandonment of hope is based in a philosophical world view. Loss is inevitable. It is inescapable. All living things die, and since you live – you will die. The actions you take in life are therefore meaningless as your fate is ultimately written – you will die. Period. You will lose everything. This is an inescapable truth. Therefore want for nothing, hope for nothing, and turn to Shar to numb your pain.
Since life is ultimately meaningless and death inevitable – along with the loss and sorrow it brings – life is therefore a curse. Individuals seek things because it distracts them from their ultimate fate. An individual who accepts that their fate is sealed, no matter what they do, can act and live without fear. They can ignore the illusions created by other lesser gods.
If life is meaningless, then therefore morality is likewise meaningless. If a child is destined to die, what does it matter that you just sacrificed him to the Lady of Loss? The loss of the child will bring sorrow to the family and friends of the child, bringing them one step closer to accepting her into their hearts.
Shar seeks to destroy the world and end all life. If life is a curse that inevitably brings pain and loss, then Shar's actions are noble by their very nature: she will spare future generations the same pain that all sentient beings experience. Acting to hasten the end of all things is an act of mercy.
It may seem odd that individuals seek to bring about the end of the world, but Doomsday Cults and beliefs exist in many cultures and religions even in the modern world. There are millions upon millions of "End Times" Christian's in the United States, who actively hope and pray for war in the Middle East, which they hope will result in the massacre of millions of people - because according to their beliefs it will be a fulfillment of prophecy and signify the return of Christ.
If people in the real world can think this way, then in my mind it is not a far stretch to see the Sharren religion flourishing in the Realms. We all have low points in our life when we are vulnerable to Sharren influences. Typically these times are when we experience the death of someone we are very close to, or suffer major losses – such as going bankrupt and losing ones home and having nowhere to live.
These are all times when a skilled Sharran priest can enter the scene and slowly begin to guide someone into the faith. In the Realms, Sharran Cleric's most likely recruit by targeting individuals and creating those situations.
That's not how I see Shar at all. Granted, I don't imagine she is a very joyful or happy deity. I imagine her as being somewhat emotionally barren. She may still feel a full range of emotions (both good and bad) but makes a conscious choice to ignore them. An exception to this rule would be bitterness and vindictiveness, which are likely key emotions that motivate her actions.
Actually, this is what I was going for. I suppose I should damn my poor wording.
In my mind, the negative emotions surrounding loss and the abandonment of hope is based in a philosophical world view. Loss is inevitable. It is inescapable. All living things die, and since you live – you will die. The actions you take in life are therefore meaningless as your fate is ultimately written – you will die. Period. You will lose everything. This is an inescapable truth. Therefore want for nothing, hope for nothing, and turn to Shar to numb your pain.
Since life is ultimately meaningless and death inevitable – along with the loss and sorrow it brings – life is therefore a curse. Individuals seek things because it distracts them from their ultimate fate. An individual who accepts that their fate is sealed, no matter what they do, can act and live without fear. They can ignore the illusions created by other lesser gods.
If life is meaningless, then therefore morality is likewise meaningless. If a child is destined to die, what does it matter that you just sacrificed him to the Lady of Loss? The loss of the child will bring sorrow to the family and friends of the child, bringing them one step closer to accepting her into their hearts.
Shar seeks to destroy the world and end all life. If life is a curse that inevitably brings pain and loss, then Shar's actions are noble by their very nature: she will spare future generations the same pain that all sentient beings experience. Acting to hasten the end of all things is an act of mercy.
This is pretty much how I see her too. Sort of a mother figure (especially seen in Shadowrealm), who sees the world as her child, wasting away beyond her control. So she wants to end its misery once and for all... And this doesn't really clash with what I said.
If people in the real world can think this way, then in my mind it is not a far stretch to see the Sharren religion flourishing in the Realms. We all have low points in our life when we are vulnerable to Sharren influences. Typically these times are when we experience the death of someone we are very close to, or suffer major losses – such as going bankrupt and losing ones home and having nowhere to live.
These are all times when a skilled Sharran priest can enter the scene and slowly begin to guide someone into the faith. In the Realms, Sharran Cleric's most likely recruit by targeting individuals and creating those situations.
Has it ever been said how large her church is, in terms of worshippers?
Has it ever been said how large her church is, in terms of worshippers?
I would imagine it's rather large. Shes got all those Shadovar and through them Sembia and has other churches all over the realms. I'd say every major city has a temple to shar somewhere in it. And those Dark Moon monks, they're everywhere, like ninjas!
I ignore the Shades and what they've done to Sembia. However, even doing so I'd say she has roughly a million or so worshipers of varying degrees of faithfulness. Around 10%-15% would be hardcore followers. This would not include the lip service she'd be offered as a goddess of the night, loss, secrets, and forgetfulness. Like Umberlee is given lip service by all those who travel the sea, Shar would be given lip service by any who travel during the night – especially moonless nights. She would also be empowered by those who experience great loss, those who call upon her when they seek to forget (or remember) something, and those who have secrets that must be kept hidden.
The individuals who provide said lip service aren't generally going to be folks who'd embrace her dogma, but common people (merchants, nobles, commoners, and everyone in between) who acknowledge her existence and her power over such things. Prayers would be given out of fear, "Lady of the Night have mercy upon me as I travel through your dark domain." That would most likely be the extent of tribute given by the common folk. It may also be possible that individuals pray to her when they want to invite loss onto someone else, akin to some type of curse uttered by someone who is bitter or vengeful. "I know the pain you feel at the betrayal of your sister. I caught my own in bed with my husband. Curse her with the loss of her good looks, may she never bare children, and may my husbands manhood wither and rot off."
All of these things would empower Shar, keeping her at the status of Greater God. She likely also has a measurable number of wizards who devote themselves to her: those who seek to uncover secret or forgotten arcane lore.
Shar has strong followings down in the Lands of Intrigue, but I'd imagine she has a small hidden cult in most every major city. The cult may or may not be led by a member of the clergy.
I think it is also worth mentioning that Shar has a number of false cults devoted to her throughout the Realms. These cults are likely front groups designed to be methods of recruitment into the true cult.
Lords of Darkness says there are about 100 000 of her worshippers, I think Shar gets most of her power from the application of portfolios, worshippers aren't that important.
Quale#45
Cthulhu, it was boring.
She can, otherwise she would kill herself.
Nah. Cuz she knows her death would be pleasant to others, so she sticks around to scorn them. And, like I said, pleasure of basically any kind is anathema to her (-> sorrow, despair, loss). The only way I can see her actually feeling pleasure is in a way that feeds off her vindictiveness. So, if she can feel pleasure in another way, I think she must really kick herself for feeling something she finds antithetical. She and her clergy have really pushed that whole "Pleasure is false. There is only sorrow and loss" motto. Don't get me wrong, what Shar does would merit pleasure (to an evil deity), but I think she's too wrapped up in her sadness schtick to actually feel anything uplifting.But, that's just me.
Isn't she plased by the idea of nonbeing. I don't think she really cares about others, it's the absolute egocentrism, and her dogma is not just a scam to lure the weak, she believes in it and is the embodiment.
Isn't she plased by the idea of nonbeing.
I interpret her attitude towards non-existence not as one of pleasure, but one of resolution. She believes this is what must be done, but she doesn't pursue it because it makes her happy. She does it because she believes this is the only path to putting an end to the falsehoods of life. Again, she probably sees it as more of a mercy killing than a triumphant annihilation.
I don't think she really cares about others, it's the absolute egocentrism, and her dogma is not just a scam to lure the weak, she believes in it and is the embodiment.
She does have a "miserable mother" concept, though. She helped birth the world only to find it feeble and dying. She cannot turn back time or heal the world, so she wishes to end her child's pathetic existence, a mercy killing of sorts. Ironically, in this case, Shar sees herself as just about the only one who truly cares about the world. And no one was saying her dogma is a scam. Obviously she believes in what she preaches.
The best thing Shar had going for her, in my opinion, was the shadow weave. I loved playing a shadow adept back in 3.x. With the shadow source being in PHB 3 i have a feeling the shadow weave will be back, or something similar.
The best thing Shar had going for her, in my opinion, was the shadow weave. I loved playing a shadow adept back in 3.x. With the shadow source being in PHB 3 i have a feeling the shadow weave will be back, or something similar.
They did have that little sidebit in the FRCG about Shadovar attempting to restore the Shadow Weave. In Ordulin, I believe. I never particularly liked it, nor did I dislike it.
They did have that little sidebit in the FRCG about Shadovar attempting to restore the Shadow Weave. In Ordulin, I believe. I never particularly liked it, nor did I dislike it.
Yeah that's right! So now im totally convinced they're gonna do something. The question is what? I mean actaully restoring the weave sounds a little dumb seeing as how we know now you dont need the weave to cast spells. And another thing the shadow weave was like the dark mirror of the regular weave so with no weave how could you even have a shadow weave? Still i bet theres something up with Ordulin that they'll tie in with the PHB3.
I'm hopin they'll have Necromancers in there too. Would make sesnse for them to be Shadow powered. I miss playin a necromancer, i guess i could be a wizard and just pick alot of necrotic powers but it just aint the same.
Shar can be pleased, as she used to love her twinsister Selune. Shar felt good about the creation of Chauntea untill her lighter counterpart started to create a Sun to empower life and all its "meaningless" creation.
A reforming of the shadowweave will likely coincide with the reintroduction of the necromancer class and its shadow powersource. PH3 will contain primal, psionic and divine classes. So with the Necromancer class tapping the Shadow power source we'll sadly have to wait for PH4.
Shar can be pleased, as she used to love her twinsister Selune. Shar felt good about the creation of Chauntea untill her lighter counterpart started to create a Sun to empower life and all its "meaningless" creation.
Actually, that proves that Shar could feel true pleasure at one point. Certainly any pleasure she might feel now isn't in the same vein as the happiness she felt with Selune. I think she's too far gone for that. But I personally thought we were focusing solely on modern, nihilistic Shar, not Shar in both her past and current incarnations, so take that as you will.
A reforming of the shadowweave will likely coincide with the reintroduction of the necromancer class and its shadow powersource. PH3 will contain primal, psionic and divine classes. So with the Necromancer class tapping the Shadow power source we'll sadly have to wait for PH4.
What!? Say it aint so. I thought the Assassin, which is shadow sourced, was gonna be in the PH3? I was gettin all psyched up for a Necromancer too.
The Assassin is already out, well heroic and paragon tiers that is. Via DDI. Interesting class.
The Assassin is already out, well heroic and paragon tiers that is. Via DDI. Interesting class.
Yeah i saw that. It is interesting. They definalty made it its own class and not just a rogue sub-class. But i thought that was a PHB3 preview, so i was thinkin Shadow gonna be a big thing in PHB3, so i was thinkin Kool Necromancers! But now im not so sure. No Shadow power in PHB3?
No Shadow power in PHB3?
Apparently. It'll probably be released with the Elemental power source in PHB4. At least, I believe that's what they're up to.
Well damn!
I'm kinda lookin forward to the elemental power source as well. They got to do something different there, as it is most other power sources can channel elemental power by dealing cold damage, fire damage or what have. I'm interested in seeing how theyre gonna differentiate the Elemental power source, or if its just gonna meet the same fate as the Ki power source.