I'd been thinking a lot of the real-world analogues in the Forgotten Realms, of Chessenta and the Utter East, of Koryo and Osse, and I came to wonder "What makes a good realm of this kind, and what makes a poor one?"
Personally, I rather like most of them, and have no real problem with the idea, though I know that many others don't feel the same way, and like them not at all. This dislike seems to have informed much of what led to 4th edition version of FR. But let's make a baseline assumption for this discussion that a real-world analogue isn't all that bad a thing, when done right.
So what do you like to see in a RW analogue realm, what don't you want? What elements or themes of the FR setting do you see as essential additions to these places? What should be taken from the RW version, and what shouldn't be? (I don't want to know if you hate the idea and think they should all be destroyed.)
I think any RW analogue realm of FR should have the common elements of the setting: mostly independent city-states, some feuding, others allied; competing factions, both good and bad and neutral; mighty wizards and villains and heroes who try to guide and influence events; the fallen great empires of the past whose ruins lie ready to explore; and a sense of fun and adventure on the small-scale. At least, that's my rough impression of the core areas.
The analogue I feel ought to take liberally from the culture and mythology of its source, and less so from the history and politics. It should sample all ages, from the ancient past to the modern day, though centered around the classical/medieval/renaissance-type eras. Take what is fun and popular. It shouldn't clone directly any actual events, but rather imitate events that might have occurred in the RW (but didn't, or weren't particularly famous or history-shaping). It most certainly shouldn't copy all the names of people and places, with only weak letter changes to disguise it. And it should always remain respectful and honest to the source.
Chessenta, the FR version of ancient Greece and Rome and the classical world, is a good model of what I like to see.
What do you think?
"Hello, all. While I don't disagree that a lot of published detailing of Chessenta is "Ancient Greek-like," that is NOT how Ed detailed that region, or writes about it. He generated about six pages of lore that I have (as a player) and that the TSR designers had, back in the day, as their basis for detailing the region, and it says this:
Chessenta is wine-making and horse-breeding country, with very productive farms that more than support the folk who dwell on them. It is rolling, hilly country with many winding lanes and small farms: the ridges being scrub woodlands and vineyards because the soil is thin and gravel underlying it (glaciated eskers and drumlins), and the downlands (well-watered river lands) being verdant farms. Real-world comparisons are to be avoided for all of the usual reasons (mistaken assumptions leading to bad roleplaying, etc.), but if one has to choose, it would Piedmont, Tuscany, and northern Italy [small villages, small keeps, local "lords" ruling small areas, use of handfuls of mercenaries as warriors to back said lords], with "warm winters" about every ten years that echo the climate of mainland Greece and Macedonia.
In a GenCon panel and several discussions we players had with Ed, it is clear he thinks of this area far more like the condottoire era in Europe, if one must use real-world comparisons at all, and a lot less like hoplites and Sparta and Ancient Greece.
However, if it works for your campaign, being as it looks like detailed coverage of the countryside of the Realms has been at least derailed for the nonce, why not describe it as you have?
love,
THO"
...
Additionally, we've some previous lore from Ed on the conception of Chessenta in the Realms material:-
"OLD EMPIRES was ably written by Scott Bennie, who has since updated it ‘for free’ on the Net (scribes, please help me with where it can now be found). I had nothing directly to do with the writing of that product, although my sketchy lore-notes were provided, and of course all the place-names and geography of Chessenta, Unther, and Mulhorand (plus their general overall character and relationships to each other) were part of my original (pre-publication) Realms. You’re quite right: given my druthers, I’d never have put elements so recognizably “real-world historical” into the Realms, but their inclusion was inevitable given TSR’s plans for the Realms to be the “home” of 2nd Edition AD&D: it had to embrace Arabian Adventures (the working title for Al-Qadim), Oriental Adventures, Sea Adventures, Arctic Adventures, Lost World/Livingstone/Indiana Jones (Chult), Conquering the New World (Maztica), and so on. I think Scott did a superb job, and my only regret is that we’ve never examined Chessenta’s city-states in proper detail and depth: it could have been an absolutely fascinating, maximum-freedom-to-plug-in-commerical-modules setting for Realms-based campaigns."
In more general terms, the biggest problem I see with transplanted societies is that they often appear to exist in a vacuum. There's usually a reason why a society does things a particular way, and in context it makes sense to carry on doing it. When a society is added that's an analogue of another, you have to examine the context to see how things need to change. To use an extreme example, there's no way to create an analogue of Augustan Rome that doesn't also create an analogue of the empire without creating all sorts of problems for it's mere existence.
What can often work is to take the place you want an analogue of and then treat that as "how it was in the past". Take Middle Kingdom Egypt with it's pyramid building, put it down in Mulhorand, then say that's what it was like 4000 years ago, now it's the 14th century and how has it changed. You still have pyramids, but they're ancient structures which people probably don't build any more. Pharaoh doesn't ride a chariot to war himself, he leaves that to his generals and the criminals or foreign mercenaries whose lives are expendable. The gods are still worshipped in the same temples, but now the prayers are sent on their way in a cloud of incense that is traded from Kara-Tur. Adapt things to the circumstances, and don't be afraid to take a few things that don't seem like they'd be expected.
Ultimatley I found that Greenwood did an excellent job with setting the Realms in such a grandiose world. It always felt that even with realms looking similar to realworld historic counterparts the world kept its own style and could give the region something extra that would set it disticntly appart from the real world. This added "fog of mystery" one can introduce into a region is a great attraction to me, as it allows one to indirectly use that regions real world myths and tales in the great world thats Abeir-Toril.
There is only ONE set of gods.
However, these beings are NOT what we normally call 'gods' in a setting. In fact, I ALWAYS use the term "deity" in my games, because there is a subtle difference (to ME, anyway).
This group is composed of a couple of hundred entities each responsible for different parts of reality, and their 'portfolios' are FAR broader and more encompassing then the ones assigned to deities.
What, exactly, is a deity then? Why, it's an Avatar of a god, of course! :D
People (humans, demi-humans, Humanoids, etc..) assign names to these Godly Avatars, and think they are the 'true god', but the fact is that these beings are just 'shards' of a much greater multi-spheric power.
Elder Races, like the Elves, understand this, and thats why they are one of the few races that use the same names for their deities in nearly every sphere. All of those 'little Corellons' are part of the real one. This also explains how we can get things like triune deities - you can't merge real gods, but their avatars can merge (why not? They all merge in and out of their 'patron' all the time). And in turn, these deities can create Avatars of their own, who are part of that particular deity.
Also, we wind up with a strange occurrence thanks to Interloping - a deity that is really part of a greater god can Interlope onto a world where that god already has at least one presence through another of it's Avatar-deities. Thats how we wind up with similar gods like Herne and Malar, or Talona and Kiputytto - they are just fragments of a greater god. These beings will automatically seek each other out and try to absorb one another (similar to what happens with clones). Its one of the cosmic rules of the universe - there can be only one. ;)
Now, whats all of that garbage got to do with real-world analogs?
Simple - similar deities will inspire similar beliefs and cultures in their followers. Even if two groups have never had ANY connection what-so-ever, you will still see a certain amount of similaries due to 'deific pollination'. This is why Maztica, Hepmonland (GH), and Meso-America can all be so similar, even though they've never met. Its their 'gods' that are making them do those things (the sacrifices and stepped pyramids), so it all makes sense without having to try and figure out 'canon connections' between the groups. Its like the United States and Australia - the two countries speak a common language and have surprisingly similar cultures, and yet they had very little to do with each other during their early development. You need to trace the roots back further to see the connections, and thats all I am doing here, but on a more 'cosmic' scale.
This also explains why we see names (Artemis), as well as linguistics (like Latin, or even old German) pop-up in Faerûnian cultures - these things were first received through divine visions. Priests are always the most educated people in rustic cultures, and it stands to reason that a lot of their learning gets transferred to their 'flock', entrenching a good many concepts from 'other worlds' into them.
Abeir-Toril had Pyramids and Mummies long before the Egyptians were kidnapped from our world, and I have a funny feeling that both Baast and Set have been around since before the others interloped as well (just a hunch - nothing concrete).
