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Paladin Restricted?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
entombmentofamachine
Aug 31, 2008 23:02:08 I heard from a friend that does this RP stuff that Paladin is exclusive to humans only. If this is so, why? Is there some chemical dna stopping others from doing so? Or if you say humans just keep it to themselves, what's to stop a Drow from jacking a tome and learning their ways? Or....could it be none other can handle such a bad ass class. Paladin is my favorite. Can't expect elves to handle the world like Pallys do without a beard or chest hair. For Khaz Modan!!
#2
sfdragon
Aug 31, 2008 23:06:26 the paladin is not human restricted, that went out when 3e came along, as there was no reason why we couldnt have elven and what not paladins...
#3
entombmentofamachine
Aug 31, 2008 23:08:11
the paladin is not human restricted, that went out when 3e came along, as there was no reason why we couldnt have elven and what not paladins...

Is use to be though? Can you tell me why it was from before.
#4
sfdragon
Aug 31, 2008 23:14:14 it use to be yes, long ago, long before i cared, and no i cant tell you the reasoning as i dont know either.......
#5
Therise
Aug 31, 2008 23:19:25 Here, just read THIS.

It explains the requirements, rationale and changes per edition for paladins.
#6
sfdragon
Aug 31, 2008 23:25:39 delete me
#7
DreamStalker
Sep 01, 2008 1:37:49 Originally all the races were classes. Then in 1ed AD&D races and classes became separate choices. At first most races other than human only had a few class choices as a PC, demihuman Clerics largely being restricted to NPCs. At this time the Paladin became a merger of the Feudal Knight and Paladin options that Fighters could choose at 9th level in basic D&D. The Avenger option disappeared. In time demihuman Clerics became more available. Further along as sourcebooks were created (I'm not sure if it was the 1ed or 2ed Complete books that did this) demihuman versions of Paladin and other "specialty" classes were created. Some settings such as FR opened up more options for demihumans. More and more races were created that could take the "restricted" classes. By the end of 2ed D&D there were ways around almost any restriction. In 3ed all basic classes were opened up to all races as well as multiclassing. The Paladin became closer to its original inception in basic D&D though some elements of the knightly aspects remained in the mechanics and almost always was referenced in the fluff.
#8
naex
Sep 01, 2008 2:00:45
Originally all the races were classes. Then in 1ed AD&D races and classes became separate choices. At first most races other than human only had a few class choices as a PC, demihuman Clerics largely being restricted to NPCs. At this time the Paladin became a merger of the Feudal Knight and Paladin options that Fighters could choose at 9th level in basic D&D. The Avenger option disappeared. In time demihuman Clerics became more available. Further along as sourcebooks were created (I'm not sure if it was the 1ed or 2ed Complete books that did this) demihuman versions of Paladin and other "specialty" classes were created. Some settings such as FR opened up more options for demihumans. More and more races were created that could take the "restricted" classes. By the end of 2ed D&D there were ways around almost any restriction. In 3ed all basic classes were opened up to all races as well as multiclassing. The Paladin became closer to its original inception in basic D&D though some elements of the knightly aspects remained in the mechanics and almost always was referenced in the fluff.

Unless you are referring to the original d&d game as basic d&d. Basic D&D and AD&D both were developed and released within a year of each other ('77) and ('78) respectively. With the red box basic rules (which is considered basic d&d as we know it) released in '81. So the AD&D rules do not necessarily come from the basic set. Never having used the original booklets, or basic set, I have no idea if they had a paladin type or not.

------------------
after reviewing a few older files on my computer (don't ask where I got them), There was no paladin type in OD&D (just three classes), Paladins were directly added in in the Grehawk supplement as Paladins. Also the rules for non-humans as classes was later in basic d&d, not in OD&D. Non-humans could be members of the classes, they just had level limits.

CHARACTERS: (Additions and Changes)
There are now four main classes of characters:
Fighting Men (including Paladins)
Magic-Users
Clerics
Thieves
Fighting Men: Other character-types may engage in hand-to-hand combat, but only
true fighting men are able to use their strength and dexterity to utmost advantage in
melee. In addition, certain lawful fighters may opt to become paladins. This is all explained
later in the section entitled DETERMINATION OF ABILITIES

#9
DreamStalker
Sep 01, 2008 2:33:55 Ah ok. That is a confusion on my part. I thought the older stuff that just said Dungeons and Dragons a continuation of the original stuff. My Dungeons & Dragons stuff which is mostly loose covered books was older than my AD&D 1ed stuff so I thought they were an earlier version of the rules. They were split into separately rules blocks. things like "Basic" "Expert" "Advanced" or somesuch. The AD&D 1ed books I have are later printings and its been awhile since I dug them out so I was thinking they were the newer versions of the game, didn't realize till I just looked it up that there was essentially the original version which then split into basic Dungeons and Dragons and the AD&D rules sets.

I think the Dungeons and Dragons book with the level 9 options for the various classes was in the Expert book. I guess i've gotten lazy and just referred to the '91 Rules Cyclopedia instead of digging out all of the loose stuff.

How does the Paladin look in the OD&D Greyhawk supplement? More like the AD&D version or more like the D&D version?
#10
naex
Sep 01, 2008 2:42:44 Somewhere between really, they were just fancy fighters, with a lot of restrictions. They aren't spellcasters, but have near immunity to magic while carrying a holy sword. They got mounts, but could have no more than 4 magic items.
Reading these old books is a blast, you can see the foundations of both sets of rules together, though they seem more alike to AD&D than the basic rules.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 entombmentofamachine Aug 31, 2008 23:02:08	I heard from a friend that does this RP stuff that Paladin is exclusive to humans only. If this is so, why? Is there some chemical dna stopping others from doing so? Or if you say humans just keep it to themselves, what's to stop a Drow from jacking a tome and learning their ways? Or....could it be none other can handle such a bad ass class. Paladin is my favorite. Can't expect elves to handle the world like Pallys do without a beard or chest hair. For Khaz Modan!!
#2 sfdragon Aug 31, 2008 23:06:26	the paladin is not human restricted, that went out when 3e came along, as there was no reason why we couldnt have elven and what not paladins...
#3 entombmentofamachine Aug 31, 2008 23:08:11	the paladin is not human restricted, that went out when 3e came along, as there was no reason why we couldnt have elven and what not paladins... Is use to be though? Can you tell me why it was from before.
#4 sfdragon Aug 31, 2008 23:14:14	it use to be yes, long ago, long before i cared, and no i cant tell you the reasoning as i dont know either.......
#5 Therise Aug 31, 2008 23:19:25	Here, just read THIS. It explains the requirements, rationale and changes per edition for paladins.
#6 sfdragon Aug 31, 2008 23:25:39	delete me
#7 DreamStalker Sep 01, 2008 1:37:49	Originally all the races were classes. Then in 1ed AD&D races and classes became separate choices. At first most races other than human only had a few class choices as a PC, demihuman Clerics largely being restricted to NPCs. At this time the Paladin became a merger of the Feudal Knight and Paladin options that Fighters could choose at 9th level in basic D&D. The Avenger option disappeared. In time demihuman Clerics became more available. Further along as sourcebooks were created (I'm not sure if it was the 1ed or 2ed Complete books that did this) demihuman versions of Paladin and other "specialty" classes were created. Some settings such as FR opened up more options for demihumans. More and more races were created that could take the "restricted" classes. By the end of 2ed D&D there were ways around almost any restriction. In 3ed all basic classes were opened up to all races as well as multiclassing. The Paladin became closer to its original inception in basic D&D though some elements of the knightly aspects remained in the mechanics and almost always was referenced in the fluff.
#8 naex Sep 01, 2008 2:00:45	Originally all the races were classes. Then in 1ed AD&D races and classes became separate choices. At first most races other than human only had a few class choices as a PC, demihuman Clerics largely being restricted to NPCs. At this time the Paladin became a merger of the Feudal Knight and Paladin options that Fighters could choose at 9th level in basic D&D. The Avenger option disappeared. In time demihuman Clerics became more available. Further along as sourcebooks were created (I'm not sure if it was the 1ed or 2ed Complete books that did this) demihuman versions of Paladin and other "specialty" classes were created. Some settings such as FR opened up more options for demihumans. More and more races were created that could take the "restricted" classes. By the end of 2ed D&D there were ways around almost any restriction. In 3ed all basic classes were opened up to all races as well as multiclassing. The Paladin became closer to its original inception in basic D&D though some elements of the knightly aspects remained in the mechanics and almost always was referenced in the fluff. Unless you are referring to the original d&d game as basic d&d. Basic D&D and AD&D both were developed and released within a year of each other ('77) and ('78) respectively. With the red box basic rules (which is considered basic d&d as we know it) released in '81. So the AD&D rules do not necessarily come from the basic set. Never having used the original booklets, or basic set, I have no idea if they had a paladin type or not. ------------------ after reviewing a few older files on my computer (don't ask where I got them), There was no paladin type in OD&D (just three classes), Paladins were directly added in in the Grehawk supplement as Paladins. Also the rules for non-humans as classes was later in basic d&d, not in OD&D. Non-humans could be members of the classes, they just had level limits. CHARACTERS: (Additions and Changes) There are now four main classes of characters: Fighting Men (including Paladins) Magic-Users Clerics Thieves Fighting Men: Other character-types may engage in hand-to-hand combat, but only true fighting men are able to use their strength and dexterity to utmost advantage in melee. In addition, certain lawful fighters may opt to become paladins. This is all explained later in the section entitled DETERMINATION OF ABILITIES
#9 DreamStalker Sep 01, 2008 2:33:55	Ah ok. That is a confusion on my part. I thought the older stuff that just said Dungeons and Dragons a continuation of the original stuff. My Dungeons & Dragons stuff which is mostly loose covered books was older than my AD&D 1ed stuff so I thought they were an earlier version of the rules. They were split into separately rules blocks. things like "Basic" "Expert" "Advanced" or somesuch. The AD&D 1ed books I have are later printings and its been awhile since I dug them out so I was thinking they were the newer versions of the game, didn't realize till I just looked it up that there was essentially the original version which then split into basic Dungeons and Dragons and the AD&D rules sets. I think the Dungeons and Dragons book with the level 9 options for the various classes was in the Expert book. I guess i've gotten lazy and just referred to the '91 Rules Cyclopedia instead of digging out all of the loose stuff. How does the Paladin look in the OD&D Greyhawk supplement? More like the AD&D version or more like the D&D version?
#10 naex Sep 01, 2008 2:42:44	Somewhere between really, they were just fancy fighters, with a lot of restrictions. They aren't spellcasters, but have near immunity to magic while carrying a holy sword. They got mounts, but could have no more than 4 magic items. Reading these old books is a blast, you can see the foundations of both sets of rules together, though they seem more alike to AD&D than the basic rules.