I am running a campaing set in the Forgotten Realms and thought the epic end would be the restoration of Mystra.
We are currently low Heroic tier and I have lots of ideas about how over the campaign I will seed the ideas of several cults all with conflicting ideas. One wants to restore Mystra, one wants to release Cyric from his prison etc.. The Mystra worshippers will get wiped out and I'm hoping the PCs will want to step in and restore Mystra themselves (but I won't railroad them into doing so).
If they do go for this, what exactly would you have the PCs do to restore Mystra? A simple ritual seems a bit too easy to me.
I appreciate any comments (even negative).
Cheers.
Besides, shouldn't this thread go here, to the Running the Realms?
Mystra is dead, her essence/god stuff dispersed across the world (hence your 4E changes to casters, etc.) Now I would have that her body transformed into I dunno, crystal or something and shattered, some pieces falling into the Realms themselves, some scattered across the Planes. Collecting some of the major shards would give you some of the ritual elements that are required. Now comes the tricky part...Cyric has the largest/most important shard with him. To even attempt to resurrect Mystra, the party has to free Cyric which obviously raises all sorts of issues.
Say they pull it off, collect the items, etc. Now to find her soul. Mayhaps Kelemvor is hiding/protecting it? Anyway, they have to perform the ritual either somewhere in the Realms (maybe where she ascended to godhood, Mt. Waterdeep if I recall, its been awhile) or perhaps somewhere in the Planes (where she was killed?) infusing her spirit back into the big chunks of her physical shell.
Alternately, have them time travel to the past, during the fall of Netheril. With the shards assembled, they await the moment when Mystryl sacrifices herself to maintain the Weave. They collect/trap part of Mystryl into the resurrected (4E) Mystra. Because they could only collect a portion of her power (the majority of it expended in maintaining the Weave and creating the canon Mystra), even when they return to the 4E current FR timeline, she doesn't have the power (yet?) to return magic to 'how it was'. In essence, magic has evolved without her presence and she can't get a grasp on its new form, at least at this time. But in the end you have Mystra alive and well, if majorly less powerful (YEA!!) but your party had to free Cyric to do it (BOO!!)
Just my two cents on a whim.
Shar and her minions would definitely be out to stop this from happening.
I would say in the Heroic tier, the Pcs have a desire to uncover the secrets of the Spellplague with the possibility to reverse it. They'd get cryptic info, and encounter pawns of greater threats seen in the other tiers. Paragon tier has me at a loss, except for being where most of the major scrambling for whatever the hell is going to bring her back is going to take place. Epic tier is where they work to bring her back successfully (they may fail, causing the spellplague to recede or grow stronger). These are just my theories though. Hope they help.
heheh
My question though is by "restoring Mystra" are you intending to return her to godhood? She was once a mortal girl (Midnight). The quest itself could be to extract that from those essences. At the conclusion, they could restore a young Midnight. The technicalities aren't hard either, she'd be a wizard/(pick your favorite paragon)/demigod (retaining just a hint of her former glory).
When your campaign concludes, you'd have a perfect set up for a returned Mystra. Followers would have someone to follow, but a wise leader instead of an all powerful greater god. Instead of churches, they'd have factions and societies devout to fighting Cyric and Shar. Instead of having all of the answers, they'd have a community that's perfect for breeding future characters and heroes. All the while you'd have a million plot options for protecting their new leader from all manner of Cyrician plots.
And yes, perhaps I should have put this in the FR sub forum. Sorry!
Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I think that restoring Mystra would probably involve finding and using some of the surviving Chosen - after all, they have some of her divine essence, thus will be necessary at least as far as restoring her conscience goes. Here is what I would go about it.
Step 1: identify what went wrong with the Weave. Mystra, iirc, was the Weave - she was magic, not merely a deity in charge of it. One has to think - just how does magic work in 4E FR? The total absence of the Weave, after all, is what leads to a dead magic zone. Since Abeir-Toril does have magic, what does it tap into? Are there residual energies in the Weave that can be used to retrace it, or is magic now something entirely different? That will bring you to...
Step 2: fix the weave so that Mystra's "body" is restored. That may take more or less effort depending on what the DM thinks happened during the Spellplague, but will probably be a Herculean task. The PCs will probably need to find how to focus whatever power lines remain and possibly find ways to boost magic until the Weave is "back online".
Step 3: restore the Weave to conscience - effectively bringing Mystra back. This will probably require finding her soul if any exists, but I don't think deities have any of those - most likely you will need to somehow "awaken" the entire Weave. Frankly, you will probably need a deity's help there... or at least something almost as powerful as a deity. Or maybe, once the Weave is back and running, it will eventually create a personality of its own? The original Mystryl did not need a human host to exist. Perhaps if the world is as seeped in magic as it originally was, the Weave itself would "grow" a personality just as Mystryl was created when the Weave was - during Selune's battle with Shar. Alternatively, maybe the remaining Chosen would provide the psyche of the Weave itself, or just surrender their essence to merge with it - perhaps the weight of the millenia is a bit too much for them, after all. More unscrupulous adventurers may go as far as to - sacrifice them?
Then, of course, you need to see what this new deity will be like. Chances are, it will not be the same Mystra that existed in 1380 DR.
-See the discussion in THIS thread.
beat me too it
beat me too it
Well I may have started this thread first, but I did so in the wrong forum, so we'll call it a tie
Alternatively, the persistant spellplague could just be a symptom of Mystra's death in which case the focus could be on finding out more about the root cause of the spellplague.
I get the sense that the spellplague represents a power that is capable of consuming magic and preventing it from functioning. It could be tied to a far realm or elemental plane plot line in which the players have to undo something that has gone wrong before the world can heal itself of the plague.
Why can't the plaguelands and other instances of spellplague be her blood? The party needs to find some way both to gather the blood/life force and her body.
Perhaps this is what the sharn are unknowingly doing with their Order of Blue Fire: preparing the way for Mystra's return and restoration.
As for Shar, maybe she isn't opposed? Maybe she realises that she cannot have the Shadow Weave (a stated but implied goal of hers) without the Weave also existing.
As for the naysayers... it's just a game. Just enjoy the creative exercise!
(snip) Why can't the plaguelands and other instances of spellplague be her blood? The party needs to find some way both to gather the blood/life force and her body. Perhaps this is what the sharn are unknowingly doing with their Order of Blue Fire: preparing the way for Mystra's return and restoration. (snip)
I completely agree.
The Plaguelands and spellscars and similar effects are the remains of her life force.
As for the Order of Blue Fire, in view of the canon FR history of the sharn I can imagine nothing more certain than this being a task that they would devote themselves toward.
As you say, ignore the naysayers; heck, my campaign is about, inter alia, the restoration of Eilistraee and the possible death of Lolth. I reckon these are the sorts of stories that the Epic tier should be designed around.
(This is my first post on the new forums. I think I hate them already.)
The Weave still exists. Sure its damaged, and in some places it doesn't exist. Yet one need a Weave to have a Spellplague. The Spellplague still flares up in 1479.:D
Make it what you will.
(snip) Why can't the plaguelands and other instances of spellplague be her blood? The party needs to find some way both to gather the blood/life force and her body. Perhaps this is what the sharn are unknowingly doing with their Order of Blue Fire: preparing the way for Mystra's return and restoration. (snip)I completely agree.
The Plaguelands and spellscars and similar effects are the remains of her life force.
As for the Order of Blue Fire, in view of the canon FR history of the sharn I can imagine nothing more certain than this being a task that they would devote themselves toward.
As you say, ignore the naysayers; heck, my campaign is about, inter alia, the restoration of Eilistraee and the possible death of Lolth. I reckon these are the sorts of stories that the Epic tier should be designed around.
(This is my first post on the new forums. I think I hate them already.)
Why are you agreeing with yourself?
I was wondering the same thing.:thinking:
(snip) Why can't the plaguelands and other instances of spellplague be her blood? The party needs to find some way both to gather the blood/life force and her body. Perhaps this is what the sharn are unknowingly doing with their Order of Blue Fire: preparing the way for Mystra's return and restoration. (snip)I completely agree.
The Plaguelands and spellscars and similar effects are the remains of her life force.
As for the Order of Blue Fire, in view of the canon FR history of the sharn I can imagine nothing more certain than this being a task that they would devote themselves toward.
As you say, ignore the naysayers; heck, my campaign is about, inter alia, the restoration of Eilistraee and the possible death of Lolth. I reckon these are the sorts of stories that the Epic tier should be designed around.
(This is my first post on the new forums. I think I hate them already.)
Does that mean the return of Mystra would be the end of things like spellscars?
Bel
I would still allow Spellscars.
Call it being "Touched by the Weave".
Make the Weave dangerous and unstable to use.
Now that other sources of power have been found, casters dont have to use the Weave.
Does that mean the return of Mystra would be the end of things like spellscars?
Bel
Perhaps Mystra would be more like Azuth on her resurrection - a goddess of those who wield arcane magic, rather than controller of the Weave and magic entire?
I said once before her write up was horrid.
dont bring HER back, bring back Mystryl.
Elminster for deity
Elminster for deity
No. The Nemesis and his consort the Witch must perish, and join the Dancer in oblivion, along with the Ghost and the Tyrant. If possible, the Berserker, the Siren, and the Succubus must also be obliterated. The Puppetmaster can stay in Arvandor.
Hint: I actually like almost all of the Chosen. I just have to save face.
Right.:rollseyes:
Right.:rollseyes:
You know, Cyric referred to his fellow deities much in the same way that I did with Mystra's mutts. I suppose I'm just higher in Cyric's regard.
Also: 
EDIT: Just noticed your musical preferences. If we still had the "woot" or the happy dancing smilies, I'd be using those right now. Alas, I can only express my kinship through text. Or the soulless ginger orphans that are these new smilies.
I was refering to your hint...:rollseyes:
I was refering to your hint...:rollseyes:
Yet you don't deny I'm higher in Cyric's regard. Heeheehee.
Never, I am his Apostate on these forums. All other pretenders shall be tread under my feet!
The Chosen One Returns!
18DELTA(CHOSEN OF CYRIC!
)
Never, I am his Apostate on these forums. All other pretenders shall be tread under my feet!
The Chosen One Returns!
18DELTA(CHOSEN OF CYRIC!)
By any chance, did you mean Apostle? Cause I don't see Cyric appreciating an Apostate as his chief rep (unless you converted from some other faith).
Never, I am his Apostate on these forums. All other pretenders shall be tread under my feet!
The Chosen One Returns!
18DELTA(CHOSEN OF CYRIC!)
By any chance, did you mean Apostle? Cause I don't see Cyric appreciating an Apostate as his chief rep (unless you converted from some other faith).
Silly LordManshoon, do you really think Cyric knows words more than two syllables long? It took being a god to be able to pronounce them! :P
Sort of related to the topic, I never really cared for Mystra having so much power in the first place in the pantheon and can't say I miss her. If they do decide to bring back a god of magic, I really hope they don't end up being so powerful.
Silly LordManshoon, do you really think Cyric knows words more than two syllables long? It took being a god to be able to pronounce them! :P
True. That's what I get for giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Sort of related to the topic, I never really cared for Mystra having so much power in the first place in the pantheon and can't say I miss her. If they do decide to bring back a god of magic, I really hope they don't end up being so powerful.
I didn't like or dislike her (alright, maybe I disliked her a bit). I couldn't stand that garbage about "Mystra split her power amongst the Chosen so she couldn't threaten Ao", even if that was just speculation. Hence why, when I ushered in the spellplague in my game, Mystra perished, and Azuth (and Savras) survived. No one's got a monopoly on magic now; Azuth just serves as a guide and teacher, not an overlord (much like he's always been).
I have a feeling that Elminster will become the new Azuth.
I knew exactly what I was saying...
A dead diety usually ends up drifitng the astral seas, and in Crystal Mountain by Thomas Reid we get a glimpse of Mystra's spellplagued body adrift in a humongous sphere of the remains of Dweomerhart. The divine body of Mystra is riddlied by sparkling sputtering balls of magic that keep her arcane energies from coalescing.
Mystra's mind could be kept in stasis in the Staff of Azuth, held by Asmodeus in the Ninth layer of the Hells. Shar could technically have azuths staff as well, or it could be lost adrift in the astral seas still. If Shar has it she'll likely have plans to destroy it making it imposssible to fully restore Mystras or Mystryls personality. If its still adrift in the astral seas some githyanki or mercane exploreres might chance apon it in the coming ages...
Awakening and quickening the weave to a newborn conscience is the most interesting way of bringing a god(des) of magic back. Its safer than actually reinstalling Mystra, as she would probably have gone insane by all the attempts on her being and be seriously dangerous when first awakened. She seethe with revenge and be so powerhungry in acumulating energies to strike back at Cyric and Shar that she'll burn away Torils magic foundations.
A massive spellbattle bewteen the gods could create a new god of magic, perhaps a violent return of the Mulhorandi gods, or some newly sparked primordial vs diety conflict can awaken the weave enough for a re-emergance of Mystra. A cojoined stance of the gods against an infernal invasion or a demonic plague might serve the same purpose: a massive amount of use of magic to repell some dire threat to Toril.
A newborn non-mystryl god of magic needs some "parenting" otherwise it will end up getting Ao cross on multiple occasions. Selune and Shar both would likely take an interest in such a parenting role, and depending on the relative power of pursuasiveness of their followers (the PC party composition perhaps?) the new god of magic will choose sides in the War of Light and Darkness.
Personally I'd choose Shar, for she has made sure all other gods of magic died or are missing and an evil god of magic makes a terrific epic level threat.
Thats my Shar.
I thought that was Azuth's body in the astral...
Could be indeed. The scene does imply the whole of Dweomerharts remains are tumbling trough the Astral towards the Bloodrift river. Later on Kaanyr & co see the head of Azuth, the gods body sprawled and ashore on the banks of the interplanar river to Hell...
Could be indeed. The scene does imply the whole of Dweomerharts remains are tumbling trough the Astral towards the Bloodrift river. Later on Kaanyr & co see the head of Azuth, the gods body sprawled and ashore on the banks of the interplanar river to Hell...
Thats right, they saw two different "things" while floating in the Astral Sea.
Thats my Shar.
I thought that was Azuth's body in the astral...
Ah, there you are. Glad we can call off the watch now. You had us worried. You missed dinner.
So, what was for dinner anyways?
18DELTA(THE CHOSEN WHO HATES THESE NEW SMILIES!)
So, what was for dinner anyways?
Well, it was buffet style. We had cornbread, fried chicken, pasta, meatballs, pork, mashed potatoes, rice, spinach, butter rolls, amongst other stuff. Very nice. There's still some left in the dishes. You can reheat some if you want. Nightseer too.
Lets try this yet again...damn Forum Gremlins.
No, I had pizza already.
Thats why the Gremlins are here. LordManshoon's been feeding the little buggers. Figures a Zhent would screw the place up.
I am coming around on the forums Shoonboy.
Delta don't use the smilies if you don't like them. Sheese quit griping.
Thats why the Gremlins are here. LordManshoon's been feeding the little buggers. Figures a Zhent would screw the place up.
I've informed the staff not to serve you from now on. Have fun begging for tablescraps. And as for your latter comment, oh please. Don't make me revoke your club membership as well. Field day is next week, and you'd be the only one left behind.
I am coming around on the forums Shoonboy.
Well, get back to work, layabout! You've dawdled long enough!
And in an attempt to stay on-topic, perhaps the secret to restoring Mystra lies in Netherese lore regarding Mystryl. Just a thought.
These new smilies suck. I will gripe if I want to.
So the Netherese know how to restore Mystra. I may just have to smite them in my anger...wait a minute. You could be feeding mis-information to the Church of the Holy One Cyric, so we can smite those who owned your Zhentarim and Shattered Zhentil Keep. Very sneaky you are LordManshoon.
18DELTA(KEEPING AN EYE ON THE SNEAKY ONE! I AM ON TO YOU NOW!)
You could be feeding mis-information to the Church of the Holy One Cyric, so we can smite those who owned your Zhentarim and Shattered Zhentil Keep. Very sneaky you are LordManshoon.
*tallies up Delta's score* How did you get a 0? It's because of the Netherese that Fzoul is dead, Bane's church has broken off, and the Zhentarim once again answer solely to me. Why would I bear them ill will? They did my work for me. Plus, were I to attack Netheril, I don't think I'd want Cyric's priests as my vanguard. Something about the Company of the Ebon Spur lurks in my mind.
Nit-wits.
Back to PC's restoring Mystra...
Superior-witted intellectuals. How I, Nightseer, curse my worship of Shar for enfeebling my mind.
Back to PC's restoring Mystra...
You do realize you didn't need to say "back to Mystra"?
We really haven't gone too far off track.I just commented on how Netheril might hold secrets. It's possible that ancient lore of Mystryl contains text regarding the Weave or some such, which might be used by heroes in conjunction with other rituals and magic to restore Mystra to life. Of course, one might also say the best way to get Mystra back is by slicing open Shar's tummy. Or beating her like a pinata. Whack her with a bat, and out pops Mystra (and Ibrandul and Eshowdow!)
I'd kind of forgotten about starting this thread when the forums changed until the other day. That's a lot of posts to go through! I've skimmed through and there's defintiely some useful stuff here as well as quite a few erm, "entertaining" posts.
I will sit down and read through properly next week .
Thanks for your suggestions.
(wow, these smileys are quite ugly)
At the conclusion, they could restore a young Midnight. The technicalities aren't hard either, she'd be a wizard/(pick your favorite paragon)/demigod (retaining just a hint of her former glory).
But would she want the job after all of that? Maybe restoring Midnight to life would just create someone who just doesn't want to play anymore. It could be a false conclusion to the campaign, creating the final, mad dash to figure out who the next Diety of Magic will be. Everyone from those who intend to be gods to those that are already gods might want in on that one.
I had an undeveloped idea that crossed all three tiers of play.
It involved worsening plague lands and a mad spellscar cult at Heroic tier. An alien invasion/enemy at paragon and jealous/angry gods and demons at epic.
I had some loose ideas
- Heroic level - Gather the mortal essence of Mystra (really Mystryl) (new seven siblings).
- Heroic level - Use arcane batteries / energy absorbers to pacify the plague lands and spell scarred.
- Find some Pre/post netherese artifacts/relics/rituals.
- Paragon - Recover ancient Mystryls remains
- Paragon - Recover Dweomerheart's er heart from neogi (perhaps) invaders.
- Paragon - Gain Selunes blessing.
- Restore Dweomerheart to the Astral sea.
- Epic - Gain the blessing of Shar.
- Epic - Slay/release the tormented spirit of Midnight (this was intended as one of several plot twists).
- Epic - Defeat X and restore Mystryl.
The end result would have been to restore Mystryl as the unaligned goddess of ambient magic & mysteries. Rather than the weave I pictured an ocean of magic now an integral part of the planet with ley lines and nodes regulating and such.
Hopefully I would have had a Wizard player intrested in becoming the god of spellcasters or exarch of Mystryl.
The big avoid would have been her inability to cut people off from magic that was all around them but still be necessary as a regulator.
Pardon the waffle, I never really got around to doing more than brainstorming it one afternoon in my skull.
I had an undeveloped idea that crossed all three tiers of play.
It involved worsening plague lands and a mad spellscar cult at Heroic tier. An alien invasion/enemy at paragon and jealous/angry gods and demons at epic.
I had some loose ideas
- Heroic level - Gather the mortal essence of Mystra (really Mystryl) (new seven siblings).
- Heroic level - Use arcane batteries / energy absorbers to pacify the plague lands and spell scarred.
- Find some Pre/post netherese artifacts/relics/rituals.
- Paragon - Recover ancient Mystryls remains
- Paragon - Recover Dweomerheart's er heart from neogi (perhaps) invaders.
- Paragon - Gain Selunes blessing.
- Restore Dweomerheart to the Astral sea.
- Epic - Gain the blessing of Shar.
- Epic - Slay/release the tormented spirit of Midnight (this was intended as one of several plot twists).
- Epic - Defeat X and restore Mystryl.
Question: Wouldn't being in Selune's good graces automatically turn Shar against them (or vice-versa)? How might one actually earn the approval of both? Other than that, looks pretty damn good.
- Paragon - Gain Selunes blessing.
- Epic - Gain the blessing of Shar.
Question: Wouldn't being in Selune's good graces automatically turn Shar against them (or vice-versa)? How might one actually earn the approval of both? Other than that, looks pretty damn good.
I hadn't fully worked it through but I use the term blessing loosely, I was toying with using Shar as the BBEG but that seemed a bit overdone recently so I was leaning towards stealing something intimately connected to her or she was aware that they wouldn't be restoring a good goddess of magic and not opposed to the idea at this time. Whilst still making them work for what they wanted.
Either way she was going to be a complete beatch, just because I like to give my players someone they can really hate. Similarly the situation with Selune wouldn't necessarily have been an easy sale.
Have Shar give her blessings to cause Cyric loss and biterness. Loss in that his greatest victory proved hollow. Bitterness in that his greatest enemy is free while he is imprisoned for another 900 years.
Those two should get a hotel room when he gets out of "prison".
Have Shar give her blessings to cause Cyric loss and biterness. Loss in that his greatest victory proved hollow. Bitterness in that his greatest enemy is free while he is imprisoned for another 900 years.
Fallen from the Prince's graces, have you?
Those two should get a hotel room when he gets out of "prison".
He gets conjugal visits, I'm sure. After all, Sune was one of his judges...
Nope...not posting in character right now. I have been taking my morning meds!
Just wait until I get in another Manic state...
I did say my deal is like a "Pro Wrestling Gimick"... I am doing a slow face turn, only to suddenly turn heel at the big pay-per view...to then get screwed over by the shows GM and that will turn me face for about 18 months.
Please tell me he did not post that.
Delta, you my friend are off your rocker.
Where has Dr Manthingy<snicker> been lately? Dr Manthingy<snicker>= Drizztmanchild.