PHB3 and Forgotten Realms - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

PHB3 and Forgotten Realms

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Guest1309747454
Jul 11, 2010 10:40:55 Im putting together a 4th ed forgotten realms game with a prelude in the 3.5 ed setting (still using the 4.0 system of course), and one of my players just bought the 3rd edition players handbook. He read over the races there, and decided he wants to play a Shardmind, and the question I have is are Shardminds, Wilder, etc from PHB3 in Forgottemn Realms at all? Was the Living Gate a part of that setting?

I DO realize as the DM I can say yeas/no as I feel free, I just wanted to be fair about it rather than arbitrarily saying yes or no. Im fairly experienced in DMming, and know how to control accrees to races, I just perfer to restrict access if there is a specific reason to do so. I also wated to know if these creatures even ARE in the setting or not in general, before making my decision.
#2
Jorunhast
Jul 11, 2010 11:26:06 The Living Gate, so far, has mainly been tied to the Greyhawk setting. More recently, they've started hinting that it's in the core 4E world (the "PoL" setting) as well. I've not heard of an adaptation yet for the Realms. That said, when the Living Gate was destroyed in the Astral plane, shards went "through the planes" and you can have this mean anything you'd like as the DM. Perhaps there was a secret and small order that arose in Faerun and has been training in psionics, etc., who is to say, really? The Realms are gigantic, and there's no reason in 4E why they shouldn't or couldn't be somewhere. Psionics, generally, have been part of the Realms setting for a long time.
#3
Mirtek
Jul 11, 2010 12:24:45
The Living Gate, so far, has mainly been tied to the Greyhawk setting.

Where was it mentioned in Greyhawk?

#4
Guest1309747454
Jul 11, 2010 12:57:38 I appreciate the help.

If you want to further help; the plot synopsis is here:

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
#5
Jorunhast
Jul 11, 2010 18:16:04
The Living Gate, so far, has mainly been tied to the Greyhawk setting.

Where was it mentioned in Greyhawk?

This made me double-think my answer... and it's a good thing... "Pelor" made me think of Greyhawk, and Tharizdun's definitely in Greyhawk as well, but apparently all the "Living Gate" stuff is 4E-specific and likely not to be Greyhawk but just the PoL setting.

So although there's a lot of info on Tharizdun and Pelor for Greyhawk, it may or may not be related to the same-named deities in PoL or the Living Gate in PoL.

Sorry 'bout any confusion, my bad. I've been trying to piece it together, and I wish WotC would make up their minds about separate/unique outer planes for each setting or if all the settings share the outer planes. *sigh*

Sorting it out, I guess the way it really breaks down is something like this:

In truly ancient times, before gods and primordials warred with each other, three deities (named Pelor, Ioun, and one that was Nameless) found a Living Gate in the Astral plane. They investigated it, and made a pact based on what they saw never to open it or challenge its guardian. Ioun may or may not have learned psionics from her brief study of the gate, but in any case decided to spread knowledge of psionics to her followers. Sometime later, the Nameless god (who was probably Tharizdun) came back and opened the gate, obtained something from it, and either intentionally or accidentally used that something to corrupt part of the Elemental Chaos. This created the Abyss. Pelor and Ioun saw that the Living Gate was leaking aberrations from the Far Realm, and so they decided to blow it up. From this, shards and dust were the result. Tharizdun, it's said, was later trapped by the combined efforts of good and evil deities working together. (this is all PoL, or at least new to 4E).

With respect to Greyhawk, Pelor is a deity there as well. He is credited with stopping Tharizdun as well, although Gygax said later it was an avatar of Tharizdun they trapped (perhaps the most powerful of his avatars). Gygax always viewed Tharizdun as an entity so powerful that it could never be fully stopped or contained. Although Pelor and the other deities in Greyhawk trapped this being, many of T's avatars still wandered around. And although many of those avatars didn't remember their name or connection to Tharizdun for some reason, they still wrought chaos, entropy, and destruction as per their original purpose.
#6
Dragon9
Jul 11, 2010 23:24:58

This made me double-think my answer... and it's a good thing... "Pelor" made me think of Greyhawk, and Tharizdun's definitely in Greyhawk as well, but apparently all the "Living Gate" stuff is 4E-specific and likely not to be Greyhawk but just the PoL setting.

So although there's a lot of info on Tharizdun and Pelor for Greyhawk, it may or may not be related to the same-named deities in PoL or the Living Gate in PoL.

Sorry 'bout any confusion, my bad. I've been trying to piece it together, and I wish WotC would make up their minds about separate/unique outer planes for each setting or if all the settings share the outer planes. *sigh*

Understandable. They folded some deities into the core fluff from Greyhawk (Pelor, Ioun, Vecna, Tharizdun) and even some of their fluff (Tharizdun as the Elder Elemental Eye).

Sorting it out, I guess the way it really breaks down is something like this:

In truly ancient times, before gods and primordials warred with each other, three deities (named Pelor, Ioun, and one that was Nameless) found a Living Gate in the Astral plane. They investigated it, and made a pact based on what they saw never to open it or challenge its guardian. Ioun may or may not have learned psionics from her brief study of the gate, but in any case decided to spread knowledge of psionics to her followers. Sometime later, the Nameless god (who was probably Tharizdun) came back and opened the gate, obtained something from it, and either intentionally or accidentally used that something to corrupt part of the Elemental Chaos. This created the Abyss. Pelor and Ioun saw that the Living Gate was leaking aberrations from the Far Realm, and so they decided to blow it up. From this, shards and dust were the result. Tharizdun, it's said, was later trapped by the combined efforts of good and evil deities working together. (this is all PoL, or at least new to 4E).

The new Demonomicon talks about how Tharizdun, seekign power, took a shard of evil planted by a race called the Obyriths, went mad because of it, and planted the shard in the EC to create the Abyss. He fought the Obyriths to a standstill, then the primordials entered the Abyss seeking the power of the Shard. Tharizdun tried to enslave them but failed, so he began the cult of the Elder Elemental Eye to trick the primordials into his service so he could achieve universal domination. It was then that the other Gods turned their attention to him and cast him down and imprisoned him in a layer of the Abyss then struck his name from history.

The history of the formation of th Abyss continues from there, but that's all that concerns Tharizdun. Some primordials willingly followed Tharizdun because they believed that he coudl retrieve the shard from the rift at the bottom of the Abyss and help them defeat the Gods of the astral sea. Many of the primordials became the first demon lords (Demogorgon, Orcus and Baphomet among them).
#7
The_Silversword
Jul 12, 2010 0:57:47 The topic of races from the PHB3 came up in another thread, specifically the Shardmind and the Wilden, I thought it relevant to post it here as well:

I think the Wilden would work rather well for the Volodni. They were a forgotten tribe of humans who traded their humanity in exchange for shelter from their enimies. Theyre from the 3.5 Unapproachable East sourcebook. Basically theyer the samething as a Wilden, plant people, but using them as Volodni makes the more Realmsy.

The Shardminds could be living crystal constructs from the ancient psionic empire of Jhaamdath.

#8
Imruphel
Jul 31, 2010 11:07:14 @The Silversword: I like your ideas for the wilden and shardminds.

@OP: in 3.5E's Unapproachable East it was mentioned that the nilshai were trying to break through into Aglarond from the ethereal plane. I believe that one or more of Bruce Cordell's novels linked that as an advance force for the aboleth of Xxiphu and their return to Toril.

Based on that, I've decided that, IMC, the wilden have arisen in Aglarond in response to the Far Realms incursions into that place over the past 100 or so years. They have also arisen in Impiltur and the Great Dale in response to abyssal incursions in those places. None of my players have expressed any interest in playing them as yet so I haven't taken it further.

I really like the idea of the Living Gate and I want to tie it to the aboleth of Xxiphu. Perhaps they're trying to rebuild it in order to open a way between Toril and the Far Realm as part of their plan to carry out the Far Realms version of terraforming of Toril. The shardminds might spontaneously form in any places touched by such aberrant plots.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Guest1309747454 Jul 11, 2010 10:40:55	Im putting together a 4th ed forgotten realms game with a prelude in the 3.5 ed setting (still using the 4.0 system of course), and one of my players just bought the 3rd edition players handbook. He read over the races there, and decided he wants to play a Shardmind, and the question I have is are Shardminds, Wilder, etc from PHB3 in Forgottemn Realms at all? Was the Living Gate a part of that setting? I DO realize as the DM I can say yeas/no as I feel free, I just wanted to be fair about it rather than arbitrarily saying yes or no. Im fairly experienced in DMming, and know how to control accrees to races, I just perfer to restrict access if there is a specific reason to do so. I also wated to know if these creatures even ARE in the setting or not in general, before making my decision.
#2 Jorunhast Jul 11, 2010 11:26:06	The Living Gate, so far, has mainly been tied to the Greyhawk setting. More recently, they've started hinting that it's in the core 4E world (the "PoL" setting) as well. I've not heard of an adaptation yet for the Realms. That said, when the Living Gate was destroyed in the Astral plane, shards went "through the planes" and you can have this mean anything you'd like as the DM. Perhaps there was a secret and small order that arose in Faerun and has been training in psionics, etc., who is to say, really? The Realms are gigantic, and there's no reason in 4E why they shouldn't or couldn't be somewhere. Psionics, generally, have been part of the Realms setting for a long time.
#3 Mirtek Jul 11, 2010 12:24:45	The Living Gate, so far, has mainly been tied to the Greyhawk setting. Where was it mentioned in Greyhawk?
#4 Guest1309747454 Jul 11, 2010 12:57:38	I appreciate the help. If you want to further help; the plot synopsis is here: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
#5 Jorunhast Jul 11, 2010 18:16:04	The Living Gate, so far, has mainly been tied to the Greyhawk setting. Where was it mentioned in Greyhawk? This made me double-think my answer... and it's a good thing... "Pelor" made me think of Greyhawk, and Tharizdun's definitely in Greyhawk as well, but apparently all the "Living Gate" stuff is 4E-specific and likely not to be Greyhawk but just the PoL setting. So although there's a lot of info on Tharizdun and Pelor for Greyhawk, it may or may not be related to the same-named deities in PoL or the Living Gate in PoL. Sorry 'bout any confusion, my bad. I've been trying to piece it together, and I wish WotC would make up their minds about separate/unique outer planes for each setting or if all the settings share the outer planes. sigh Sorting it out, I guess the way it really breaks down is something like this: In truly ancient times, before gods and primordials warred with each other, three deities (named Pelor, Ioun, and one that was Nameless) found a Living Gate in the Astral plane. They investigated it, and made a pact based on what they saw never to open it or challenge its guardian. Ioun may or may not have learned psionics from her brief study of the gate, but in any case decided to spread knowledge of psionics to her followers. Sometime later, the Nameless god (who was probably Tharizdun) came back and opened the gate, obtained something from it, and either intentionally or accidentally used that something to corrupt part of the Elemental Chaos. This created the Abyss. Pelor and Ioun saw that the Living Gate was leaking aberrations from the Far Realm, and so they decided to blow it up. From this, shards and dust were the result. Tharizdun, it's said, was later trapped by the combined efforts of good and evil deities working together. (this is all PoL, or at least new to 4E). With respect to Greyhawk, Pelor is a deity there as well. He is credited with stopping Tharizdun as well, although Gygax said later it was an avatar of Tharizdun they trapped (perhaps the most powerful of his avatars). Gygax always viewed Tharizdun as an entity so powerful that it could never be fully stopped or contained. Although Pelor and the other deities in Greyhawk trapped this being, many of T's avatars still wandered around. And although many of those avatars didn't remember their name or connection to Tharizdun for some reason, they still wrought chaos, entropy, and destruction as per their original purpose.
#6 Dragon9 Jul 11, 2010 23:24:58	This made me double-think my answer... and it's a good thing... "Pelor" made me think of Greyhawk, and Tharizdun's definitely in Greyhawk as well, but apparently all the "Living Gate" stuff is 4E-specific and likely not to be Greyhawk but just the PoL setting. So although there's a lot of info on Tharizdun and Pelor for Greyhawk, it may or may not be related to the same-named deities in PoL or the Living Gate in PoL. Sorry 'bout any confusion, my bad. I've been trying to piece it together, and I wish WotC would make up their minds about separate/unique outer planes for each setting or if all the settings share the outer planes. sigh Understandable. They folded some deities into the core fluff from Greyhawk (Pelor, Ioun, Vecna, Tharizdun) and even some of their fluff (Tharizdun as the Elder Elemental Eye). Sorting it out, I guess the way it really breaks down is something like this: In truly ancient times, before gods and primordials warred with each other, three deities (named Pelor, Ioun, and one that was Nameless) found a Living Gate in the Astral plane. They investigated it, and made a pact based on what they saw never to open it or challenge its guardian. Ioun may or may not have learned psionics from her brief study of the gate, but in any case decided to spread knowledge of psionics to her followers. Sometime later, the Nameless god (who was probably Tharizdun) came back and opened the gate, obtained something from it, and either intentionally or accidentally used that something to corrupt part of the Elemental Chaos. This created the Abyss. Pelor and Ioun saw that the Living Gate was leaking aberrations from the Far Realm, and so they decided to blow it up. From this, shards and dust were the result. Tharizdun, it's said, was later trapped by the combined efforts of good and evil deities working together. (this is all PoL, or at least new to 4E). The new Demonomicon talks about how Tharizdun, seekign power, took a shard of evil planted by a race called the Obyriths, went mad because of it, and planted the shard in the EC to create the Abyss. He fought the Obyriths to a standstill, then the primordials entered the Abyss seeking the power of the Shard. Tharizdun tried to enslave them but failed, so he began the cult of the Elder Elemental Eye to trick the primordials into his service so he could achieve universal domination. It was then that the other Gods turned their attention to him and cast him down and imprisoned him in a layer of the Abyss then struck his name from history. The history of the formation of th Abyss continues from there, but that's all that concerns Tharizdun. Some primordials willingly followed Tharizdun because they believed that he coudl retrieve the shard from the rift at the bottom of the Abyss and help them defeat the Gods of the astral sea. Many of the primordials became the first demon lords (Demogorgon, Orcus and Baphomet among them).
#7 The_Silversword Jul 12, 2010 0:57:47	The topic of races from the PHB3 came up in another thread, specifically the Shardmind and the Wilden, I thought it relevant to post it here as well: I think the Wilden would work rather well for the Volodni. They were a forgotten tribe of humans who traded their humanity in exchange for shelter from their enimies. Theyre from the 3.5 Unapproachable East sourcebook. Basically theyer the samething as a Wilden, plant people, but using them as Volodni makes the more Realmsy. The Shardminds could be living crystal constructs from the ancient psionic empire of Jhaamdath.
#8 Imruphel Jul 31, 2010 11:07:14	@The Silversword: I like your ideas for the wilden and shardminds. @OP: in 3.5E's Unapproachable East it was mentioned that the nilshai were trying to break through into Aglarond from the ethereal plane. I believe that one or more of Bruce Cordell's novels linked that as an advance force for the aboleth of Xxiphu and their return to Toril. Based on that, I've decided that, IMC, the wilden have arisen in Aglarond in response to the Far Realms incursions into that place over the past 100 or so years. They have also arisen in Impiltur and the Great Dale in response to abyssal incursions in those places. None of my players have expressed any interest in playing them as yet so I haven't taken it further. I really like the idea of the Living Gate and I want to tie it to the aboleth of Xxiphu. Perhaps they're trying to rebuild it in order to open a way between Toril and the Far Realm as part of their plan to carry out the Far Realms version of terraforming of Toril. The shardminds might spontaneously form in any places touched by such aberrant plots.