Pirate King vs Todd Lockwood

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

fr4life

Oct 20, 2008 13:29:18
Let me start by saying that I absolutely adore Todd Lockwood and his art. He does outstanding work on a consistent basis and makes wonderful choices on his pieces.

However...

The newest cover for The Pirate King is an absolute muddy mess of brown nothingness. I wonder if this was a printing issue or if Lockwood actually painted the cover with so little contrast that Drizzt's hair is the only thing that can even been seen from 10 feet away (besides Salvatore's name).

Surely, with all the programs available and Lockwood doing all his work digitally, it would have been an easy fix to simply select Brightness/Contrast in Photoshop and turn that contrast up. Guenhwyvar is the largest thing on the cover and she can't even be seen from 3 or 4 feet away from the book! Ack!

You can check out the cover here. And believe me, you can see even less when you are looking at a printed version of the real thing.
http://www.amazon.com/Pirate-King-Forgotten-Realms-Transitions/dp/0786949643/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224527243&sr=8-1
#2

ipsissimus

Oct 20, 2008 13:39:53
Artist's have their good days and not so good days.

I won't hold it against him, his rendering of Sune in the FR book is still one of my favorites along with all his dragon paintings.

You'd be surprised to know how much fantasy artists get paid to do drawings for these books...trust me. Very surprised.
#3

fr4life

Oct 20, 2008 13:50:39
Artist's have their good days and not so good days.

Very true, which is what art directors are for. I mean, when a cover is first printed, the printing company sends you a proof. Whoever approved the printed proof of this cover needs to be slapped up side the head.
#4

AaronOfBarbaria

Oct 20, 2008 16:34:22
I guess I'm the only one that thinks "No, that's what all Lockwood art looks like... but there is usually more revealing clothes involved."
#5

ipsissimus

Oct 20, 2008 16:52:04
Very true, which is what art directors are for. I mean, when a cover is first printed, the printing company sends you a proof. Whoever approved the printed proof of this cover needs to be slapped up side the head.

No comment on what some of the art directors let by past and present.

The compostition is still good and to my understanding...it must be part of a much larger piece of artwork. Someone for some reason just happened to choose this particular shot. I'd like to see the entire piece in hi-res or behind glass.

My guess is some happened when it went from digital to print and to save $ the 1st printing was...as is.
#6

fr4life

Oct 20, 2008 16:52:25
I guess I'm the only one that thinks "No, that's what all Lockwood art looks like... but there is usually more revealing clothes involved."

Nah, most Lockwood art I can spot from across a room because he is very good at contrast and making features stand out. He does go with a golden color palet usually that washes the entire piece, but the picture still jumps out at you because of the excellent use of contrast. (Use of contrast doesn't really involve opinions either. Contrast can be measured)

That's why I'm so shocked by this cover. It might as well have just been a plain brown book with titles.
#7

fr4life

Oct 20, 2008 18:19:27
The compostition is still good and to my understanding...it must be part of a much larger piece of artwork. Someone for some reason just happened to choose this particular shot. I'd like to see the entire piece in hi-res or behind glass.

Now that's an interesting idea. Lockwood usually sets it up so that a nice piece of detail is on the spine of the book, but this one has no such thing. Maybe he intended the layout to be different.

My guess is some happened when it went from digital to print and to save $ the 1st printing was...as is.

The proof is a single copy printed for approval before the 1st print run is even done. After the proof is approved they start the run.

It looks to me like the printer was calibrated with FAR to much black levels (you can't even see Drizzt's green cloak on the physical cover) or on the original image, the black input levels were way off.

Sloppy, sloppy stuff. And a severe no-no on a book that is so high profile.
#8

farmer42_dup

Oct 20, 2008 18:26:01
Dude, it's a fantasy book. Sure, it's high profile (debatably, the reaction to RAS fluctuates wildly in readership; some love him others dispise him) inside the context of fantasy, but it's still only a book in an oft looked down upon genre. We need to be honest with ourselves.
#9

fr4life

Oct 20, 2008 18:35:15
Dude, it's a fantasy book. Sure, it's high profile (debatably, the reaction to RAS fluctuates wildly in readership; some love him others dispise him) inside the context of fantasy, but it's still only a book in an oft looked down upon genre. We need to be honest with ourselves.

http://www.nytimes.com/pages/books/bestseller/

Umm.... #3 on the New York Times best seller list. I would call that high profile for anybody in book publishing. Certainly a big enough deal to make sure the cover at least prints properly.
#10

manion

Oct 20, 2008 19:03:54
http://www.nytimes.com/pages/books/bestseller/

Umm.... #3 on the New York Times best seller list. I would call that high profile for anybody in book publishing. Certainly a big enough deal to make sure the cover at least prints properly.

Pfft, New York Times, like anybody's ever heard of them.
#11

farmer42_dup

Oct 20, 2008 19:09:55
It's not so much that. That's not an accurate sample of something's success, as it only represents a snapshot of the sales fiigures. It's like the bilboard lists. They're nice for a quick reference, but they don't measure staying power*. In three weeks, if it's still #3, then It's been successful. If the sales figures are higher than this time of his last release, same thing. But the position on a seller list alone does not measure success or even footprint in the market, it just measures where that book is at that time sales-wise.

*There are exceptions to this, such as Dark Side of the Moon, which was listed for over a decade. But even then, things tend to move off the lists quickly.
#12

fr4life

Oct 20, 2008 23:56:52
So... you're saying that hitting the NY Times best seller list doesn't indicate that a title is high profile for the company? They don't need to worry about the cover printing right unless it stays in the top 3 for several weeks?



I would hope that a publisher would care about the quality of the covers printed on ALL their titles (no matter how tiny the run or obscure the book), but especially on high profile titles that will make this and other lists.
#13

angelus_obscura

Oct 21, 2008 1:41:14
Actually, I can see the artwork just fine, even from its place on the shelf across the room. Of course I have my darkvision to thank.
#14

lord_karsus

Oct 21, 2008 11:49:33
So... you're saying that hitting the NY Times best seller list doesn't indicate that a title is high profile for the company? They don't need to worry about the cover printing right unless it stays in the top 3 for several weeks?


-It doesn't mean that it's a necessarily good book (in this case, a Forgotten Realms book), anyway.
#15

fr4life

Oct 21, 2008 12:38:53
-It doesn't mean that it's a necessarily good book (in this case, a Forgotten Realms book), anyway.

High profile has nothing to do with quality. O. J. Simpson's trial was a high profile case, but that had nothing to do with how well the trial was conducted or the severity of the crime. High profile is high profile, whether it's good or not.
#16

lord_karsus

Oct 21, 2008 12:49:07
-Exactly.
#17

markustay63

Oct 24, 2008 21:13:31
Thats a painting?

I see RAS's name, the title, the FR logo, and some white blobs.

Reminds me of that pic of Drizzt (when he used to be older) by Brom that has Guenhyvar in it, and you can only see her eyes.

I usually love Todd's work, but that is extraodinarily dark and murky.

I guess showing 'pretty covers' went out with the Moonshaes - everything has to be dark and Shartastic in the Realms these days.
#18

msatran

Oct 25, 2008 11:20:00
Yeah, actually, I liked a little more light in my artwork. I'm not a young man anymore, you know, and while I CAN read and other stuff in the dark, that doesn't mean that I LIKE to peer at this murky, kind of gloomy art and try and puzzle out what's in it.

More brightness and contrast, please! Count me on the side of light.
#19

Therise

Oct 25, 2008 12:10:12
Hm, I'll grant that it's "dark," but isn't it meant to be that way? I don't see what's so terrible about the cover. Seems fine to me, really. IMAGE(http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/confused/confused0082.gif)
#20

markustay63

Oct 25, 2008 12:48:46
Dark on occassion is great, but it just seems every single novel these days is getting one of these dark covers - whoever is in charge of the artwork must be an ex-goth or something.

Fantasy is about diversity, and WotC is becoming a one-trick pony with their Shartastic 4e.

And don't blame Mr.Lockwood - When I take a gander at his site, I like the stuff he does for other companies much better - its not him, its the customer's desires that are influencing what he produces.
#21

lord_karsus

Oct 25, 2008 13:52:11
-I'd prefer something dark to something light. Makes stains and other things not as noticeable.
#22

Therise

Oct 25, 2008 14:57:45
And don't blame Mr.Lockwood - When I take a gander at his site, I like the stuff he does for other companies much better - its not him, its the customer's desires that are influencing what he produces.

His galleries are amazingly cool, definitely. I tend to like Todd's work best when it is really detailed, particularly when he does dragons. Beautiful stuff!

Perfect example of what I like best: http://www.toddlockwood.com/galleries/books/01/serpent_dragon.shtml
#23

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Oct 25, 2008 23:05:28
I found this particular cover to be indistinct and generally uninteresting, myself.
#24

Stigger

Oct 26, 2008 2:53:19
Not going to touch on the ex-goth comment, but its doubtful. :P

As to the painting, I'm sure it would be much easier to see without the glaring white of the cover lettering creating such a distraction over it. Its not bad if you take the lettering out and actually look at the image itself, difficult as it might be. Poor choice on that point, but not necessarily the artwork itself...

Just for the record though, give me DiTerlizzi over just about anyone any day...
#25

markustay63

Oct 26, 2008 12:05:57
DiTerlizzi's stuff is out-selling D&D these days, so you won't be seeing him 'slumming' anymore. ;)

Anyhow, Stigs, were you an 'Emo' Goth, or one of those Vampire Wannabes? :P

-I'd prefer something dark to something light. Makes stains and other things not as noticeable.

Clothing-wise? Then I'm in agreement.

Being overweight, I find extremely dark colors a blessing. :D

However, I like to actually see whats going on in artwork, so something a little lighter would be nice - I think the old Dragonlance Novels had a really nice range of coverart.
#26

Stigger

Oct 26, 2008 12:15:50
Neither. By the by, we didn't think of those as particularly goth back in the day... subcultures of a subculture, so to speak. Unless you're talking about Marilyn Manson, may his bones bake in the Abyss, which isn't goth in the slightest, just shock rock. I know you weren't, but still, he upsets me no end... like when people refer to Reznor as the King of Industrial.

Though you're probably right about DiTerlizzi... pity really. Was the best thing there was about Planescape and Changeling.

And I still say the artwork would be more easily seen if they hadn't used glaring white lettering.
#27

lord_karsus

Oct 26, 2008 21:55:10
I found this particular cover to be indistinct and generally uninteresting, myself.

-Having actually looked at it now, yes, I agree.

-I'd agree even if I didn't actually agree, though.

Clothing-wise? Then I'm in agreement.

-Yes, clothing-wise.
#28

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Oct 27, 2008 12:40:01
-Having actually looked at it now, yes, I agree.

-I'd agree even if I didn't actually agree, though.

LOL, that's not necessary.
#29

arderkrag

Oct 28, 2008 13:35:56
Shrug. I think it looks fine. Whether I would read it is another story.
#30

davesaunders

Oct 31, 2008 11:20:53
I have this book. I think that the cover looks a lot better in person. That happens sometimes.