01) The Return of Another Ancient Empire
02) More Shar
03) The Return of Karsus
04) Elminster v. The Simbul
05) More Good Drow
06) Elven Empowerment
07) More Drow Plotlines
08) The 4-Gotten Realms
09) More RSEs!
10) An Emphasis on Thay
11) An Emphasis on Cyric
12) Stories Centered on Deities
13) Aberrations Gone Wild!
14) "Abeir"
15) Drizzt Getting a Raise
16) Getting the Tilverton Treatment
17) Mary-Sues, Gary-Stus, and Whatever Else They're Called
18) The Fate of Garnet
19) The Death of Cyric
20) The Magnifying Glass Being Lifted
21) Stories About Dark Elves (Not Drow)
22) Moral Ambiguity
23) Second Generation Heroes/Villains
24) Myth Drannor Destroyed...Again
25) Drizzt Changes His Sexual Orientation
26) Cyric Stays Imprisoned
27) Shar Manipulating Cyric To Kill Mystra...Wait A Second!
28) The Jerren of Lurien
29) Warforged Terminators
30) The Rebirth of the Kingdom of the Stag
31) The Myth Made Unreality
32) The Night Parade, Part II
33) The Return of Opus
34) The Generalization of the Forgotten Realms
35) Anchorome
36) Karsus Foiled Again
37) Age of Worms Jergal
38) More Senseless Deaths
39) More Shar...Again
-Enough ancient nations have returned in recent years- Netheril, Imaskar, the Elves of Myth Drannor. Enough already. Part of the mystique and allure of many of these places is that they are defunct, and no longer exist. Bringing many of these places back causes some of the mystique to fade away. The 'new' Imaskar, I am looking at you!
What I don't want to see:
Mystra brought back, for any reason. And just because I said it, I'm sure it's going to happen.
I don't want to see more bloody Shar. NO MORE.
18DELTA (Chosen of Cyric) :P :P :P :P
A rose-war between Elminster and the Simbul.
I don't want to see anymore elven rising!! Whether it is myth drannor returning, or Lloth becoming a Greater Diety, all the elf impowement needs to stop!!.
No more Netherese. Hate them, hate their storylines.
No more "darkness" and "points of light" crap, enough already.
Please STOP with the aberrations rising everywhere; this is NOT Call of Cthulhu, no matter how much Cordell loves that tentacle crap it does not belong in the Realms. Release a separate product for tentacle lovers, and stop injecting it where it doesn't belong.
When designers attempt another "balance fix" to address how they've completely screwed up with Shar (and they will), please DON'T bring back the city of Opus. Let it stay firmly planted forever in Selune's realm.
Don't care about Abeir or dragon people, don't really want to see stories about them.
Fixing the damage done to Mystra and her Chosen cannot be accomplished at this point, unless someone creates an alternate timeline where none of this post-1375 junk has happened. That said, don't screw things up worse if you decide to do just that for 5E (frankly, I'd love it if ALL the post-1375 stuff was just was completely erased and we started from there).
No more Drizzt unless he is away from Mithril-friggin-Hall. Tired of the same story over and over again.
No more stories about the gods. Ok, that is it.
Stories set after 1357 DR, that that use gods as characters, that use up long-hanging DM's plot hooks, or that even think about directly affecting the Realms entire.
I'll just second Faraer's choice, since it largely mirrors my own.
-I find the entire concept of "Abeir" pretty stupid. Having looked and read about it, it's not that bad. That doesn't, however, change the fact that I don't like it. It feels totally extraneous. I don't want to see time and resources devoted to "Abeir" when they should be devoted to Faerûn, or Kara-Tur- mind you, I don't even like their 4e incarnations, but...
First things first - Drizzt rising in prominence and ascending to become an Exarch of Uber-Fanboi's.
He could have Scimitars and 'Angst' in his portfolio.
Edit: Just thought of a worse one, after reading your list -
The Drow turning from Lolth and worshipping Shar (a double-wammy!). Or worse, it turning out that Loth IS Shar.
-In 3e, one of the things I disliked most was that various "mysteries" were solved. Who killed Avarae? What had been a pretty big mystery was solved in a few lines of text in a matter-of-factly way. That it was the people that everyone expected (the Starym) makes it that much more annoying. The fate of Garnet is one of the mysteries I like most. Let's hope it stays a mystery.
Or worse, it turning out that Loth IS Shar.
I was afarid they were gonna end up doing that for 4E Realms - that would have totally drop any Realms interest at all.
All I got to simply say is NO MORE SHAR related stories/plots!
While I did like Mystra....I think she should stay dead now....kinda like Jean Grey....keep her dead....too many resurrections that now it is just cheap.
The Drow turning from Lolth and worshipping Shar (a double-wammy!). Or worse, it turning out that Loth IS Shar.
Better, Shar is the entire pantheon and always was.
-The Return of Garnet
-In 3e, one of the things I disliked most was that various "mysteries" were solved. Who killed Avarae? What had been a pretty big mystery was solved in a few lines of text in a matter-of-factly way. That it was the people that everyone expected (the Starym) makes it that much more annoying. The fate of Garnet is one of the mysteries I like most. Let's hope it stays a mystery.
Garnet's fate remains a mystery. Intentionally so.
Steven Schend did briefly toy with the idea of making Garnet one of the dragons in the "Blackstaff" ritual, but nixed the idea as it was too important to cameo without explanation or details [for which there was no room].
Sorry, couldn't resist that snipe...
-The Return of Garnet
-In 3e, one of the things I disliked most was that various "mysteries" were solved. Who killed Avarae? What had been a pretty big mystery was solved in a few lines of text in a matter-of-factly way. That it was the people that everyone expected (the Starym) makes it that much more annoying. The fate of Garnet is one of the mysteries I like most. Let's hope it stays a mystery.
I'd like the contrary. To see Garnet again. I like him. As I liked most of Myth Drannor.
Garnet's fate remains a mystery. Intentionally so.
-Numerous other plots, individuals and things ended with a mystery that was intentionally placed, stood, and later solved.
-Numerous other plots, individuals and things ended with a mystery that was intentionally placed, stood, and later solved.
Aye.
However, we've had two FR designers claim that Garnet's fate has been left intentionally vague. So unless that stance actually changes [and given the current direction of the Realms], it's unlikely we'll learn anything new regarding Garnet in the foreseeable future.
-In 3e, one of the things I disliked most was that various "mysteries" were solved. Who killed Avarae? What had been a pretty big mystery was solved in a few lines of text in a matter-of-factly way. That it was the people that everyone expected (the Starym) makes it that much more annoying.
I want to mention that I totally agree with this--I didn't like it that the mystery was revealed, and it felt like they didn't even try to make the revelation a surprise.
But when Markus comes up with a better justification for Dragonborn than the writing team, that says to me that there's a huge problem.
Here it is:
I don't want to see the cosmic take primacy over the local.
Ugh, keep them evil.
Alternatively, if Menzo-whateveritscalled (Drizzt's Home Town) fell into the Abyss...?
:lightbulb
Or worse, Drizzt having sex with ANYONE (god help us if he breeds).
Or worse, Drizzt having sex with ANYONE (god help us if he breeds).
Too late, he's with Catti-brie.:P
Too late, he's with Catti-brie.:P
Isn't she like, ancient, by now??
Isn't she like, ancient, by now??
My point was that Drizzt is no virgin, and it's certainly possible that he has had children, even if we haven't heard about them yet.
Too late, he's with Catti-brie.:P
Is it just me, or does anyone else have a hard time picturing Drizzt with anyone? He's always struck me as a sort of eternal bachelor, and his pairing with Cattie-Brie just seems downright odd.
Also, the decision to make her into a mage seems like a bizarre afterthought, not much in line with what I think of when I envision a lady mage of the Realms.
That said, I'm not really interested in seeing the Drizzt/Cattie-Brie plot developed.
Seriously, he was in his late 70s/early 80s, right? And a level 16 character. Another 100 years fighting and exploring the Realms would mean a lot of adventuring... ;)
Is it just me, or does anyone else have a hard time picturing Drizzt with anyone? He's always struck me as a sort of eternal bachelor, and his pairing with Cattie-Brie just seems downright odd.
I have to admit that hearing Drizzt refer to his *wife* Catti-brie (and Catti-brie refering to her *husband* Drizzt) feels kind of weird to me, although that may indeed be because he came off as a bit of an "eternal bachelor" in the earlier books. That said, I liked the idea of him pairing off with Inovinndil from the Hunter's Blade trilogy, but...
Show
...sadly the poor elf met a rather sudden and unceremonious end in The Orc King.
-I am fairly neutral towards the reclamation of Myth Drannor. If it's destroyed again, though, to make it a great dungeon site, as it had been in the past. That's just a little too much.
Myth Drannor, Netheril, Imaskar... all great places to adventure and explore monster-filled ruins.
The current era FR looks like Manhattan in Bladerunner, rather then a set of The Mummy or Indiana Jones. A farmer can find more unsettled wilderness in his field then he can in Anauroch these days.
Even the fairly-empty Calimshan is now all full of stuff. Thank God I don't play in 4e - I would have no idea where to run an adventurre - I don't do 'population centers'.
I do Points of Light. ;)
Ack! Wrong thread...
Hmmm... plotlines... plotlines...
I know! Drizzt gets 'curious', and he starts wearing a dress and hanging out in bath-houses... and bus stations...
Then again... I would probably enjoy that more then the last couple of novels... at least he'd have a smile on his face, the mopey ba$&#$d.
1) Drizzt and Alustrial hooking up for procreation purposes
Ya'll KNOW this idea is simmering on the back burner somewhere ;)2) Shadowdale not returning to a state to which it was at pre 4ed (cant help, like the place/people)
3) The complete destruction of Cormyr...a dragon thing or traitor storyline but not completely gone.
Sorry LK. Just thought i'd add a little humor to an otherwise serious thread. Feel free to judge me as you wish
-Jerren are a pretty cool race, described in the Book of Vile Darkness. Little, evil, Halfling cannibals, basically. I think they're cool, and so do plenty of other people, I guess. I hope, though, that the Halflings of Lurien don't become evil savages like that, for the sake of making them cool, and creating another "adventure site".
It's awesome!
(I accidentally posted this in the other thread).
It can be about the return of the Kingdom of the Stag and the Mage-Lords.
Sad that that was the only 'fallen kingdom' that sprang to mind that they haven't brought back ... yet.
I enjoyed the idea of Imaskar resurgent, but ymmv.
What I don't want to see:
Mystra brought back, for any reason. And just because I said it, I'm sure it's going to happen.
That's something I badly want.
The current era FR looks like Manhattan in Bladerunner, rather then a set of The Mummy or Indiana Jones. A farmer can find more unsettled wilderness in his field then he can in Anauroch these days.
You would LOVE Mage: the Awakening.
Any thing to do with the Night Parade. Man that book was terrible.
We're on opposite sides of the fence, you and I. I'll take all I can get on those guys.
I don't want to see any sort of Drizzt love story -of any kind- from now until forever. Nor do I wish to read about his emotions and deep thoughts beyond the little prefaces to each chapter in any story about him.
We're on opposite sides of the fence, you and I. I'll take all I can get on those guys.
I don't want to see any sort of Drizzt love story -of any kind- from now until forever. Nor do I wish to read about his emotions and deep thoughts beyond the little prefaces to each chapter in any story about him.
You and I are SO on the same page with this one.
In one book - I forget which - the preface was longer then the chapter it preceeded!
I wanted to hang myself in th garage after reading that one... and then I remebered I don't have a garage... lucky me. :D
And now, a serious moment from me, and one that may get me in trouble with certain fans - NO MORE stories about old guys with young girls. I know Hollywood (and most men) love that crap, but its become tiresome in the Realms... and a little it gross.
Right now such 'appearances' are borderline - there have been just enough of them to be noticable; any more, and it will have crossed the line of good taste.
Edit: And this goes for Drizzt and Cattie-Bri - he's pushing a hundred!
You and I are SO on the same page with this one.
In one book - I forget which - the preface was longer then the chapter it preceeded!
I wanted to hang myself in th garage after reading that one... and then I remebered I don't have a garage... lucky me. :D
And now, a serious moment from me, and one that may get me in trouble with certain fans - NO MORE stories about old guys with young girls. I know Hollywood (and most men) love that crap, but its become tiresome in the Realms... and a little it gross.
Right now such 'appearances' are borderline - there have been just enough of them to be noticable; any more, and it will have crossed the line of good taste.
Edit: And this goes for Drizzt and Cattie-Bri - he's pushing a hundred!
This should apply to Elminster and pretty much any one as well
You and I are SO on the same page with this one.
In one book - I forget which - the preface was longer then the chapter it preceeded!
I wanted to hang myself in th garage after reading that one... and then I remebered I don't have a garage... lucky me. :D
And now, a serious moment from me, and one that may get me in trouble with certain fans - NO MORE stories about old guys with young girls. I know Hollywood (and most men) love that crap, but its become tiresome in the Realms... and a little it gross.
Right now such 'appearances' are borderline - there have been just enough of them to be noticable; any more, and it will have crossed the line of good taste.
Edit: And this goes for Drizzt and Cattie-Bri - he's pushing a hundred!
100 elven years are not even 18 human years. Cattie-Brie is the oldest one.
-Having a "good" Netherese enclave returning to Faerû to counter the "bad" Netherese enclave is too corny of a cliche for me. Maybe once upon a time in the past, it could have been reintroduced, but that time is long gone.
The Return of the Opus Enclave
-Having a "good" Netherese enclave returning to Faerû to counter the "bad" Netherese enclave is too corny of a cliche for me. Maybe once upon a time in the past, it could have been reintroduced, but that time is long gone.
For me the Opus plot hook does hold interest in reviving, but not in a way which is just the good version of Shade. Returning the enclave to Toril may not be in their plans (the writers of the realms or the enclave itself).
I have a few ideas, but this is not the spot for them.
The Opus plotline is the type of thing I've love to be involved with in a game, but not something I'd want to see tied up with in a novel.
So would you like to see an adventure involving the Opus setting or an accessory, the either have a novel based on the events within this adventure/accessory or using the baseline option for the realms official history books.
Adventures can have a series of different directions the history of your realms could take within your game. Like let's say a ritual used to bring back Opus by the new magic of the realms requires certain objects and/or magic, if they are not their there is a chance the city remains in the realms or the city is destroyed. Of course some of the best adventures would explain the impact of option a (returned Opus), option b (Gates' Opus) or option C (shatter Opus) could have on your game.
Just a question.
So would you like to see an adventure involving the Opus setting or an accessory, the either have a novel based on the events within this adventure/accessory or using the baseline option for the realms official history books.
Actually I wouldn't say I'd want to see Opus in any published product at all--I was really talking about something made up from scratch by a DM for a game.
-The Forgotten Realms is a generic fantasy setting. It has all the elements. I don't want to see the Forgotten Realms become more generic, however. In other words, I don't want to see more setting-specific locales, people, places, things, etc. removed, in favor of things that are being presented as "things for all settings" by the WotC people.
That was probably the 'lowest blow'.
Like Undermountain?
That was probably the 'lowest blow'.
-That's the opposite of what I don't want to see. That's taking something Forgotten Realms specific, and "opening" it to a wider audience. I don't want to see something that was already "opened" to a wider audience forced into the Forgotten Realms, replacing bits that already exist. The existence of Warforged AS Warforged in the setting, for instance, is what I am getting at. Not as Basal Golems, or Lantanese constructs, or whatever other solutions WE all had to come up with, to explain their 'sudden' existence. They, previously as Warforged, were never in the setting. They were something generic (not really, since they were mostly in Eberron books only, though I think the MMV had a Warforged or something in it) that existed outside of the Forgotten Realms that the Forgotten Realms never had (officially). Then, they were smooshed in there.
-If it's ever detailed, I want to see something good, that makes sense and all, not the supposed "chain of islands with dungeons that never end" that Ed Greenwood has mentioned.
Which is kind of another way of saying its a chain of islands that used to be something, but now is in ruins... there's a lot of possibilities there really.
-Yes, I'm looking for a chain of islands that has some coherent history and sense, rather than the theoretical bunch of islands with a bunch of ruins without rhyme or reason, that the "winds" push the vessels of people around.
May have missed it, but is there a reason that there are two topics with the same, exact, subject title around?
Similar, not the same...
How the CENSORED does "Plotlines You Don't Want To See, That Hopefully Will Never Be" become similar and not the same, you muffinhead?!
...silly little dookie...
one is ' Plotlines You Don't Want To See, That Hopefully Will Never Be'
and the other is ' Plotlines You'd Like To See, That Probably Will Never Come To Be'
Similar, but not the same...
How the CENSORED does "Plotlines You Don't Want To See, That Hopefully Will Never Be" become similar and not the same, you muffinhead?!
They're similar in theme, but opposite in their function.
Like yin and yang. Fire and ice. Cake and tapeworms.
Cake and tapeworms.
Hopefully not at the same time...
Karus Foiled again!
They're similar in theme, but opposite in their function.
Like yin and yang. Fire and ice. Cake and tapeworms.
Cake and tapeworms? That's a bit extreme, I do say.
(shush--this CENSORED is
)--
Anyway, I concede. First time I seen both of them pop up with relative distance on the same page and didn't read thoroughly enough.
Silly little Dookie will go sit in the corner now.
-I know a lot of people really liked that adventure idea adapting Jergal into the entire thing, and him being "super evil" and all of that. While an interesting idea, I never really liked it too much. I never really saw the need to make Jergal evil like that, and I, personally, find it refreshing to have deities of death that aren't 100% evil, per se.
surfacing of several Mad Clones of Karus rising up each believing they are the real Karus and each killing off the others..... oh wait this was done already with Manshoon.
Actually, that was done with Dr. Doom first. Now note Manshoon's armor.
These guys wouldn't know an original idea if it slapped them in the face.
Age of Worms Jergal
-I know a lot of people really liked that adventure idea adapting Jergal into the entire thing, and him being "super evil" and all of that. While an interesting idea, I never really liked it too much. I never really saw the need to make Jergal evil like that, and I, personally, find it refreshing to have deities of death that aren't 100% evil, per se.
agreed, don't know who could replace him ... maybe Urdlen
for Jergal I use the mummified necromantis
Age of Worms Jergal
-I know a lot of people really liked that adventure idea adapting Jergal into the entire thing, and him being "super evil" and all of that. While an interesting idea, I never really liked it too much. I never really saw the need to make Jergal evil like that, and I, personally, find it refreshing to have deities of death that aren't 100% evil, per se.
I prefer Jergal as a True Neutral deity, completely unconcerned with what happens.
Actually, the ultimate mastermind that knows what is going to happen far before it actually does.
I prefer Jergal as a True Neutral deity, completely unconcerned with what happens.
-I do, too. I like him in the "eternal librarian cataloging the dead" role.
Note - he was only one of two deity-level beings that were allowed to remain 'gods' during the ToT.
Even Ao doesn't get to tell Death what to do. :D
-I do, too. I like him in the "eternal librarian cataloging the dead" role.
Yes, but I also like him being the god that knows who and what is going to go belly up. It allows him to play the cards, stocks, whatever....
He just sits back and watches how things unfold.
And just shaking his head after cataclysmic events play-out, and saying to himself "I saw that coming".
Note - he was only one of two deity-level beings that were allowed to remain 'gods' during the ToT.
Even Ao doesn't get to tell Death what to do. :D
Indeed.
And seeing how he is so "insignificant" might say some things.
A novel or module that brings in any one of the very damn few surviving members of my favourite character list to use them as the goal/tool of a greater plot that results in their death.
Examples include any of the surviving Seven, Vangey (or Liriel or Arilyn if they have survived... which I doubt). I looked at my "Novel/Sourcebook references for characters" files, picked out my favourites and a did a quick total of the ones that either (a) have been confirmed as alive or (b) have a life-span stated before the Spellplague came about that would see them surviving the time jump. Roughly 78% of them are dead... and there was about 30. So...
Please WotC, don't kill off the rest yet!
Age of Worms Jergal
-I know a lot of people really liked that adventure idea adapting Jergal into the entire thing, and him being "super evil" and all of that. While an interesting idea, I never really liked it too much. I never really saw the need to make Jergal evil like that, and I, personally, find it refreshing to have deities of death that aren't 100% evil, per se.
My pet theory about Shar and the Spellplague (bear with me, I have an on-topic point, I promise, hehe) is that many of the current designers really "got" how much people loved the Age of Worms adventure path, how could they not? They wanted to emulate that success for the future Realms, and probably thought, "our customers must love the nihilistic theme and goals of the deities of the Age of Worms, which is why it's so popular... we should figure out how to radically transform the Realms so all these new customers will buy it... Shar could be nihilistic, we could have a mass killing of deities... etc...).
That said, I don't want to see anything far-realms, nihilistic or Shar-riffic in the Realms, at all. IMO, people liked the Age of Worms because it was epic, yet started out exactly like the "Keep on the Borderlands" adventure paths of old and went through interesting twists and turns similar to the "Against the Giants" and old "Lolth / drow" modules before getting to an epic finish.
You know, this is the first time I've ever heard of the Age of Worms... where's it from?
It was one of the 12-issue adventure paths back in the print version of Dungeon magazine. Very popular at the time, still gets a lot of downloads. It wasn't Realms specific (it fit with Greyhawk), but there were adaptations available for both FR and Eberron.
A novel or module that brings in any one of the very damn few surviving members of my favourite character list to use them as the goal/tool of a greater plot that results in their death.
That's a plotline I don't want to see either...
Seriously, I think they should have just offed El and the Simbul and Drizzt and whoever else might be left - it would have been so much more humane that way.
My dear Rinon... in what way would that make things ANY worse?
It's like twisting the knife a little after stabbing?
It's like twisting the knife a little after stabbing?
This is a pretty good analogy, but I would like to expand on it a little...
It is like having been stabbed (in a purely cerebral way of course) pretty harshly from behind (i.e. in a way you weren't expecting), you have serious doubts that about whether you are going to be surviving this one (is the 4E novel product going to interest me when 3 of its main authors were those who decided on this change) and yet the knife is still there hanging just in front of your eyes. You know it can (and probably will) stab you again and finish the job but at the moment it is unmoving. And all you can do is wait and see what it does next.
A little dramatic but it could just as easily be described in terms of software companies revoking your licenses to use their products leaving you with an unusable PC, or (possibly) the theft of items from your home with the thieves still in the area... or even the slow loss of memory that we all experience. In these incarnations it should at least keep its meaning if not its impact. ;)
Oh c'mon, that's the best part of stabbing someone... :P
I always thought the best part was when you used a knife with serration on the top (or spikes, depending on how fancy the knife), and then pulling upwards as you yank the knife out. That way it does extra damage on the way out, and more likely to damage blood vessels and nerves.
What? ;) :P :D
Anymore is just being sloppy.