Who is the god/gods of nature on Faerun. I gather they wouldn't take kindly to you turning their plants to ash as a defiler. It would also be interesting in that you'd have an alternate power source for your magic, you don't have to use the weave.
Chauntea is the god of nature, and indeed is the land itself and its natural processes. A Realms version of defiling could either be through the Weave or otherwise.
Hmm, what would you rule it was, say if the mage came to Faerun from Athas, where there is no weave? I thought the weave is the energy Mystra puts out, that mages can tap into, whereas preserving and defiling uses plant-life (and sometimes animal life) as the power source for the spells.
I flow wherever life flows, wherever winds blow and water runs and the sun and moon chase each other, for there is magic in all things.
This vast, ever-changing, living Weave is a tapestry of power beyond the minds of mortals, though with each passing year my work gives me back bright payment, and those who work magic can do a little more, and see a little more.
Casting a spell with the Weave is a matter of attuning oneself to it and harnessing those energies in a particular way. Exactly how this works in relation to other worlds with standard D&D magic and without an explicit Weave hasn't been directly addressed, but I think that most likely those other worlds have equivalent patterns of connections, such as enable translocation magic, for instance, that work similarly enough that a trained mage can adapt.
I don't remember how preserver magic works on Athas well enough to guess whether it would be a distinct method of magic.
Defiler Magic was basically draining the life out of something else, like a plant, and using it to give yourself power, right?
In a matter of speaking, yes. It was to power your spells, and yes, that would give you some power, wouldn't it?
I don't remember how preserver magic works on Athas well enough to guess whether it would be a distinct method of magic.
It's also draining life out of plants and animals, but doing so in such a way that you don't kill the plant/animal, it can replenish what you took. Defilers go up levels much faster than preservers.
Casting a spell with the Weave is a matter of attuning oneself to it and harnessing those energies in a particular way.
And what happens when a mage using the weave on Toril goes to another plane or crystal sphere (or space between the spheres) can they no longer cast spells because they are away from it?
I ave not really settled on how to do deal with it yet as am nowhere near having to figure it out yet but I would interested to see what folkes have to say about it.
They've had to change the nature of the Phaerimm's 'life-draining/magic-draining' spells at least twice that I know of; making them defileres eliminates all he snafus.
As for preservers - Wood Elves fit best, and Fey, of course.
Probably Druids as well, although their magic is already different.
It's also draining life out of plants and animals, but doing so in such a way that you don't kill the plant/animal, it can replenish what you took. Defilers go up levels much faster than preservers.
I'd guess that the preserving/defiling method of directly draining nearby life to power spells is distinct to Athas (but would work elsewhere), but after that Athasian spellcasting is close enough to how the Weave is used.
And what happens when a mage using the weave on Toril goes to another plane or crystal sphere (or space between the spheres) can they no longer cast spells because they are away from it?
We know that they can, from the "Wizards Three" articles and many other sources -- journeying to other planes and worlds, without losing one's Art, is one of the main things mages of power do. I gave my theory for how this works in my second post (and it's supported by Ed's discussion of the Weave as the Realms' version of a more general idea). A wizard would need to adjust to the slightly different workings of each new world, but she'd usually be able to use the same abilities and disciplines she learned in Faerûn.
(and it's supported by Ed's discussion of the Weave as the Realms' version of a more general idea). A wizard would need to adjust to the slightly different workings of each new world, but she'd usually be able to use the same abilities and disciplines she learned in Faerûn.
I think the idea about Athas is that it doesn't have one of these weave-like magical sources (or at least it is damaged enough that it can no longer be drawn on directly), making living things the only available power sources. An Athasian mage coming to Toril might continue to cast spells as he or she knew how, or could probably learn to use the weave, and might never want to go back.
Perhaps this is what Mystryl sacrificed herself to avoid, since Karsus was allegedly causing immense damage to the weave with every passing second, the full term of his spell, coupled with the Phaerimm advances in life-draining magic might have left Toril in the same state as Athas.
I think the idea about Athas is that it doesn't have one of these weave-like magical sources (or at least it is damaged enough that it can no longer be drawn on directly), making living things the only available power sources. An Athasian mage coming to Toril might continue to cast spells as he or she knew how, or could probably learn to use the weave, and might never want to go back.
-As has been discussed extensively by some of us, various problems arise when you have magicians traveling to different Crystal Spheres, each one with different "rules" of magic.
However, we got extensive rules in Spelljammer about how Divine Magic was effected, and just as much (if not more) in Ravenloft about how both Arcane and Divine Magic were effected.
But sadly, Planescape didn't touch upon it all, being more concerned with the Outer and Inner Planes, then the Prime Materials. We had some differences from Plane to Plane, but nothing as to how each prime-world's MU's handled the changes.
I suppose, if I go back to my computer analogies of the Weave, I could just say that the Weave is a PC, and Dragonlance a Mac, and Greyhawk Linus, etc, etc...
and when we go from site to site on the web, or E-mail each other or access servers, none of that matters. The whole thing becomes invisble to us - some sort of great cosmic set of protocals that handles all the different interfaces and translates them back and forth, so we can do our thing without worrying about how it all works.
Unfortunately, I hate answers like that - the old "its beyond human comprehension" explanation just seems like such a cop-out to me.
Preservers actively limited the amount of "mana" they collect when spellcasting, enabling them acces to all spells but at a slower pace. (4e ritual casting might fit here for the high level spells, as would low level/energy at will powers.)
Defilers could "empower" their spells by snuffing the lifesources they drained, enabling earlier acces to high level spells and adding more "oomph" to their spellpowers. (4e ritual casting will suffice here by replacing the gp components with drained life sources; also you might want to add damage dice to their at-will and encounter powers.)
A fearunian mage who manages to get stranded on Athas would be considered a defiler by default, as I always saw normal magic as much quicker than preserver magic. A fearunian mage would have to drain the local life aswell to fuel his high energy faerunian spells.
I hope the new Arcane Power book will give enough options for mages and wizards to divide their powers in a (uneven) split between preservers and defilers; defilers getting a distinct striker secondary focus and preservers a control focus.
Defiler magic needs to feel quick and dirty, with heavy abuse of evocation, transmutation and necromancy magic through the draining of life force. Cant remember if in 2ed this mechanic worked with draining Hit Points, but I do recall them draining the lower life forms in an area wich increased with level.
Perhaps a mechanic for defiling which has them use a sort of free Meta magic. Maybe a Power Attack with spells? Both would be fueled by the amount of HP available in the area.
I recall having a copy of that Dragon with preserver and defiler magic in 3rd edition somewhere...
So... were the gods destroyed when magic no longer existed, or did magic go bye-bye when the gods no longer existed?
Interesting question... and one for a different forum... :embarrass
I recall having a copy of that Dragon with preserver and defiler magic in 3rd edition somewhere...
-DRAGON 315.
Athas had no (arcane) magic and no gods.
So... were the gods destroyed when magic no longer existed, or did magic go bye-bye when the gods no longer existed?
Interesting question... and one for a different forum... :embarrass
It does have magic, always has (in game material, not in the world's history)
The Athas material (though there must be some inconsistencies elsewhere in FR products too) has a lot of contradictions. Some sources say Athas never had any gods (like City by the Silt Sea) and some imply that it did.
There's a reference in the Dragon Kings Supplement that some dark powers from the outer planes have fabricated (I think fabricate in this context means make rather than forge) living conduits (basically wormholes from the prime to the outer planes) that masquerade as living vortices (wormholes from the prime to the inner planes)
The living vortices are what allow the sorcerer-monarchs of Athas to siphon priestly magic to their followers and masquerade as gods. I'm not exactly sure what the difference is between normal vorticies and living vortices and living conduits and normal conduits. The City by the Silt Sea supplement says the conduits have never even existed (and can't exist, Dregoth a sorcerer-king wants to be a god but it says no matter what he does he can't make one on Athas) on Athas, while Dragon Kings as you can see says otherwise.