Like Corellon, he hates undead and evil creatures with a passion, but he allows baelnorn to exist to safeguard his people and places sacred to them and himself.
EDIT: Also look at the Raven Queen (not FR, I know, but same job as Kelemvor and against undead). She is adamantly against undead, but some of her most powerful followers are undead (the shadowsworn or sorrowsworn?).
In general, though, big K probably won't like your character that much. It's not a matter of him using necromancy, per se; actually a fair number of Kelemvor's devotees are necromancers. He's very big on respecting the dead, which includes preserving their rest (such as, oh, by not animating) - which may be a problem with some of the songs if it is deemed that they actually disturb the souls of the properly dead or draw power from the abominations that the undead are. I would need to know more about these songs to have an opinion.
The big issue, though, will be your character's eventual undeath-of-sorts. It's not a matter of whether his vampirism, lichdom, etc is tainted or not - good and evil are not that important to him, anyway. He's the god of death, and undeath is a perversion, or at least denial, of death - thus of him, what he stands for and what the church dogma is. Now, there are more than enough evil undead that would probably be more troublesome, so his devotees probably won't go out of their way to kill your character, but don't expect his blessing either.
The_Shaman: Ok, first on the issue of powers, these are the three necromantic powers that I am specifically thinking of having end-game.
Funeral Dirge Bard Attack 15
Death itself sings a wordless dirge and calls your foes to
their doom.
Effect: The burst creates a zone of deep and haunting
chanting that lasts until the end of the encounter.
An enemy that starts it turn in the zone is weakened
until the start of its next turn.
All Soul’s Ball Bard Attack 19
A haunting tune fills the air, drawing the souls of the dying
to dance among their killers.
Effect: The burst creates a zone that lasts until the end
of the encounter. When an enemy within the zone
drops to 0 hit points, allies adjacent to the enemy can
spend a healing surge as a free action, and enemies
adjacent to the slain enemy grant combat advantage
until the end of their next turn.
Song of the Deadly Dancer Bard Attack 29
Your song calls forth a dancing amalgam of shadow,
blades, and death. It whirls into being and spins toward
your foes, its nightmarish gamboling keeping pace with
your feverish beat.
Effect: Self explanatory from the fluff description.
Do these look like they would be problematic to a Kelemvor worshiping character?
I don't know what to say about the archlich/transcendent dhampyr bit. I see what you mean. My fluff for that transformation would have been that at that point in time he would come directly into service for Kelemvor as an undead dirge singer. His soul would directly belong to Kelemvor, to live and fight until Kelemvor saw fit that it is his time to die. Something along the lines of the undead in the Raven Queens service, lets say. Does Kelemvor have no souls of the dead/undead in his service on his plane? I don't mean undead as in animated by necromancers, but more along the line of dead that directly serve Kelemvor at his bidding?
:evillaughThose powers seem fine and the undead issue as well, provided you do go to serve him when he calls... or you could turn and be the next BBEG for the next game... hmm...
Thank you.
Can I possibly get a second (or third and fourth) opinion from anyone? Its not that I don't like krownhunter07's opinion. Actually, its what I want to hear :D. Which is why I figure I should see if that is the general consensus before I simply accept it out of hand...
Yea, that seems pretty bang on for a bard, with many necromantic powers, who both respects the dead, hates destructive undead, but is happy to make use of necromancy and his own vampiric bloodline to combat them, and doesn't mind adding a few living names to the scrolls of the dead if he feels they warrant a just execution. Excellent, I have a god. :D
-Jergal is the definition of awesome, by the way. Don't know if you know that, but now you do.
I read in the Prince of Lies novel(canon source)that he was a former God of Death and elsewhere(not sure where so it might possibly not be canon) that he was also the God of murder, and Strife, and that he gave up godhood out of boredom. So my question is thus, Can he regain those portfolios should he choose to? Does he still have a link to the portfolios to do sso?(so it's 2 questions):P
To the OP I hope this isn't a hijacking of your thread, I just thought that it would be a cool part of your adventure to help your new god gain back those portfolio's.
Cool god choice.
But Jergal was also (and still is) the god of fatalism. In this way, he knows that all events are subject to an inevitable fate that cannot be changed. Deities can (and often do) die in Faerûn. If jergal is going to die, what good are all those portfolios. He knows that creation itself will end one day.
Also note that all the gods to which Jergal gave part of his powers eventually died. They were all warned, but died anyway. Bane was killed by Torm and sacrificed his demigod son's life to come back. Myrkul was slain by Mystra, and now his essence is trapped in a magic crown. Bhaal was killed by Cyric and stayed dead, though he did corrupt a river. Jergal escaped the Times of Trouble without a scratch.
Using necromancy in general to manipulate the forces of life and death, and specifically the bard powers from The City Entombed?
*Not a problem with BigK. He is listed as having followers who do this sort of stuff already.
Using necromancy to pervert and warp and blaspheme the cycle of life and death, namely by creating undead and causing horrid, untimely death?
*Big problem.
Kelemvor seems to begrudgingly turn a blind eye to Jergal's enlistment of "useful" undead--benign servitors and scribes and such--but Jergal is a deity. If you tie your (mortal) character directly to Kelemvor, I think you will have a somewhat tragic (though not necessarily fatal) storyline on your hands unless you give things quite a twist. Being born a dhampyr is one thing; your aid to the cause might win you some look-the-other-way's if not limited acceptance. Actively choosing to become an archlich, on the other hand, just would not go over at all IMHO.
As an exarch of Kel's, Jergal is a neat compromise and sort of loosely gives your character both a tie-in to and a safe pass from Kelemvorites. Let us know how things go with your bard!
*que in the Dance Macabre*
I am Suin Bahhar, and I approve of this message I have a question about Jergal.
I read in the Prince of Lies novel(canon source)that he was a former God of Death and elsewhere(not sure where so it might possibly not be canon) that he was also the God of murder, and Strife, and that he gave up godhood out of boredom. So my question is thus, Can he regain those portfolios should he choose to? Does he still have a link to the portfolios to do sso?(so it's 2 questions):P
To the OP I hope this isn't a hijacking of your thread, I just thought that it would be a cool part of your adventure to help your new god gain back those portfolio's.
Cool god choice.
Jergal, in the time of Netheril, possessed the portfolio's of Myrkul, Bane, and Bhaal before their ascendancy. He was the big bad LE to counter Amaunator's LN and Kozah's CE. The myth goes that the "Dead Three" (Bane Bhaal and Myrkul) sought to ascend to power and planned on demanding power from Jergal after rampaging across the Material plane and Jergal's plane. Jergal, being amused by this, well probably by anything in a long time, agreed to divide his power amongst the three of them. Legend goes Malar showed up and demanded power too but the four tricked him by throwing a bone clear across existence that Malar chased after while business was done. They decided to roll knuckles to see who would pick powers first. Bane won the draw and declared himself the "Ultimate Tyrant." Myrkul came next and declared that though Bane will rule in life, all things die and would become his, hence he became Lord Bones. Last went Bhaal who declared that he would decide which of the two ruled over which mortals by being the master of Death.
Using some current storylines and rumors of storylines, people have made the assumption that Jergal gave up his power because he knew of the curse/nature of the threefold sun. Think of a pyramid spinning slowly on its access. At any one time, you can only ever see one or two sides, not three. Now remember that Amaunator and Jergal lived at the same time (noon and dusk). Once Amaunator was out of the picture, in camed Myrkul to become dusk. At some point, Lathander was born and we had Dusk and Morning. Then Myrkul died and now we only have Morning, but the rising Sun heresy was (3.5) gaining momentum to bring back Amaunator and thus noon.
Theories abound that Jergal also exists backwards. Perhaps the rise of his power was the gamble he had with the Dead three but in reverse time. The way he lives, maybe he was gaining power then and not losing it. Or perhaps Jergal is some sort of sentience foreign to this plane of existence that serves as some sort of Harbinger of the end of all things. And not in the Shar way which would just be the end of everything EXCEPT darkness, but in a unique "stopping the wheel" way. Wiz had modded a module to fit with this theory for FR.
Back to the real part of this thread. 1- why settle for a lesser god of the Dead when you can bring back your favorite Crowned Necromancer? :D
2 - Kelemvor does hate everything Undead. Its his thing. Supposedly he hates anything that lives beyond its natural lifespan but you don't see him knocking down the door of his girlfriend's chosen or any number of wizards that go far beyond their lifetimes, do you?
3 - Though Jergal is more lenient on undead than Kelemvor, he still really isn't a fan and is very Fatalist which does not really seem right for your character concept really. I would consider gods like Hoar (Vengeance) or Torm (loyalty).
like i said not sure if i mixed those 2 up but your can look it up if u want
So theoretically an Archlich could become a Chosen of Kelemvor in 4e.
Nope. Archlich and Chosen are epic paths (among others) which you can choose at 21st level. One or the other; not both.
Besides, Archliches are critters, not characters. Why would an NPC need an epic path at all?
The 4e thing doesn't make a lot of sense to me in that regard - it sounds more like (drum-roll please
) a MORPG.It just seems so limiting to shoe-horn characters that way. In 3e, you could stack templates and get cool combinations like that.
Just being honest, BTW, not tryong to start nuthin'. ;)
Until they come-out with the dual-path uber-epic PrC. :D
Nah, they left that kinda thing behind in 3e. Not that I'm trying to start anything either. :P
Besides, Archliches are critters, not characters. Why would an NPC need an epic path at all?
The archlich is an epic path (oops, hubby corrected me - epic destiny) for PCs now as of Arcane Power. I agree that an NPC wouldn't need the epic path but not sure how it fits in the discussion?
The 4e thing doesn't make a lot of sense to me in that regard - it sounds more like (drum-roll please
It just seems so limiting to shoe-horn characters like that. In 3e, you could stack templates and get cool combinations like that.
Just being honest, BTW, not tryong to start nuthin'. ;)
I've never played an MMORPG so I'll have to take your word on it.
To bring this back on topic - can Jergal have a Chosen, or is this epic destiny restricted solely to the greater gods in the Realms, as the powers described in the FRPG refer solely to them?
If I ran 4e and someone chose that, it would go like this -
Player: "Yay! I just became an Archlich!"
Me: "Yay! Hand me your character sheet and roll a new one!"
As to your question, I believe any true god (not demigod now Exarch) could have Chosen, regardless of their power-level. IIRC, they chose that in lieu of one of their Avatars. That was in 3e, however - I'm not at all sure if that still stands in 4e.
Does Kelemvor have chosen(or champions).?
-Maybe. Nothing in print says he has one, but plenty of deities have Chosen, so there's no reason to rule him out as never wanting/having one. If Jergal didn't exist, I'd see a Chosen of Kelemvor having a status very similar to his position- aiding his/her/its master with the records, so to speak.
The only one i know is from an antholagy and was Finder wyvenspur or mabe that one guy under Mielkii that Drzzt talks about sometime i get them mixed up.
Anyways its one of the older antholagies but i dont own it so cant really look it up
Also not sure if this is relvent but Demons and Devils are also known to have chosen and some could be considerd demi god rank
Anyway the reason I asked about Kelemvor's chosen is that I was going to say that a God's chosen or champions would be exempt from Kelemvors distaste of prolonging of life because any gifts of extended life from the chosen's god would be considered a "natural" part of their lifespan right?
However since he is Kelmevor's chosen I'm pretty sure his followers would still do everything in their power to help even if you were a ghoul or an orc
Sorry, my POV comes from my never allowing a player to become something like an Archlich. To me, they are NPCs (just like regular Liches, or Demiliches - once you're dead, you don't get to play your character anymore).
If I ran 4e and someone chose that, it would go like this -
Player: "Yay! I just became an Archlich!"
Me: "Yay! Hand me your character sheet and roll a new one!"
Ah, gotcha. I'm not overly fond of the concept myself but epic destinies are supposed to be epic. If you can live centuries as Chosen and gods in the making, you may as well permit necromantic approaches to the matter.
As to your question, I believe any true god (not demigod now Exarch) could have Chosen, regardless of their power-level. IIRC, they chose that in lieu of one of their Avatars. That was in 3e, however - I'm not at all sure if that still stands in 4e.
Thank you and ElvenAvenger for your answers on Chosens of exarchs, minor deities and fiends.
Anyway the reason I asked about Kelemvor's chosen is that I was going to say that a God's chosen or champions would be exempt from Kelemvors distaste of prolonging of life because any gifts of extended life from the chosen's god would be considered a "natural" part of their lifespan right?
Could be, but not necessarily - the wording is 'many Chosen' not all. However, as they are in the process of becoming divine, you have to wonder how much the word 'natural' applies to the lifespan anyway.
Anyway the reason I asked about Kelemvor's chosen is that I was going to say that a God's chosen or champions would be exempt from Kelemvors distaste of prolonging of life because any gifts of extended life from the chosen's god would be considered a "natural" part of their lifespan right?
-In theory, the Chosen Template that is bestowed upon whoever doesn't have to come with the ability to live an 'unnatural lifespan'.
His name was Gwaevron(spell?) Windstrom and I believe he's either A. A patron of rangers or B. THE patron of rangers under Mileikki.
Gwaeron Windstrom, no "V" in there.
Anyway the reason I asked about Kelemvor's chosen is that I was going to say that a God's chosen or champions would be exempt from Kelemvors distaste of prolonging of life because any gifts of extended life from the chosen's god would be considered a "natural" part of their lifespan right?
I don't believe that Deneir's Chosen came with an extended lifespan... most didn't that I recall. At best, most came with a "no age penalties to stats, but you still get the bonuses" sort of benefit, but not much else, at least from what I recall offhand.
I don't believe that Deneir's Chosen came with an extended lifespan...
-No, it doesn't.