Hello,
Ok so I recently started playing a 5e forgotten realms campaign on roll20 (tabletop website for those who don't know). I am playing a cambion son of the Graz'zt the Dark Prince and Iggwilv who for reasons unknown was abandoned as an infant in the slums of Waterdeep. My character managed to find out that he was descended from Graz'zt (doesn't know who his mother is).
Now that you know my background, I have a few questions. I know that alignments in D&D are more guidlines than anything, but for demons they are almost universally entropic cosmic forces of destruction and corruption. Simply labeling them as chaotic evil is more accurate than not. But is Graz'zt chaotic evil? He doesn't seem to be in my opinion. He operates more like a lawful evil character. For intance he is a plotter, he is one of, if not the most intelligent demon lord, he rules more layers of the abyss than anyone else. His actions don't seem very chaotic evil to me. I was wondering if anyone had anything to say about this. My character's mission in game is to make it to Azzagrat in the abyss to meet his father face to face. Hopefully he isn't walking into his own death.
On another note it would sorta make sense that Graz'zt would be a lawful existence among what is mostly chaos. Chaos stops being chaos if it is always the same, because then it is the norm. Anyway, what do you guys think?
I'd say that him being smarter and cleverer doesn't necessarily preclude being chaotic evil. I doubt there's any line he wouldn't cross to further his goals. Certainly, he's probably more lawful than many other Abyssal denizens, but that's not necessarily saying much.
Incidentally, a PC in an old campaign I DMed would be your character's brother-in-law-ish, having married a daughter of Graz'zt.
I'm not up on this aspect of Realmslore, but I think Graazt was originally a devil general, sent to conquer the Abyss. He occupied a few layers then his offensive ground to a halt. Since then he has managed to go independent.
So he was lawful evil to start.
At one point, Graazt held Waukeen (goddess of trade and merchants) prisoner in his realm. When members of her church find out who your father is, they might decide to make retaliation. (Don't tell your DM, just be very cautious when they are nearby. Let him figure out why.)
I am reviving this thread because I have more questions lol. My campaign in which I play Zicro Dreo a cambion son of Grazz't is still going strong. Just made contact with a cult that masquerades as worshippers of Waukeen. What role do you think the Dark Prince will play in Out of the Abyss?
http://tribality.com/2015/05/06/rage-of-demons-storyline-art/
I haven't found much on the storyline but i'm kind of hype.
WizardWynd wrote:
Grazz't is very, very CE - and a very clever, often subtle, insideous variety that can easily be confused as being more lawful.
Grazz't was never a devil in FR, and is in fact the child of Pale Night the Mother of Demons, an Obyrith Lord (and one of the eldest and most powerful entities in the Abyss). Only in the 4e core PoL pseudo-setting was he anything other (and that setting isn't canonical for FR's history, though to be perfectly honest the state of canon is rather awkward since 2008).
Being *more* lawful than the least lawful things possible isn't enough to make something necessarily not chaotic. One way to think about it is to use a percentile system: Asmodeus, King of Hell would be a 95, or even 100 on the Law-O-Meter, while Demogorgon, Demon of Fugliness, would be a 0 on the law-o-meter, or a perfect 100 on a Chaos scale.
On same said Law-O-Meter, Graz'zt might be a 5 (Or a 95% if you'd rather measure the Chaos). There's a bit more consistency and willingness to play by rules in him, but that's only when we compare him to "totally inconsistent gibbering chaos monsters." One of the origin stories given for Graz'zt is that he was a Devil before, so perhaps that's because he is only *mostly* chaotic from spending so much time in the Abyss, but that inherent lawfulness he once possessed can't go away completely. But all of those examples would be certified 100% Evil.
Or, in salsa terms, "The Alignment Spiciness Scale" (over which I claim total mastery) would say that while most Demon Lords are "Muy Caliente Mal Caótico" - Señor Graz'zt would only be "Caliente." Still spicy enough to make your eyes water, but you don't have to drink a whole gallon of milk and pray through the night for the burning sensation on your tongue to fade, because a glass and a few hours will suffice.
Though that metaphor might actually be more confusing than my previous percentage based system. Oh well.
Beguileuse wrote:
Thought you guys might enjoy, if you haven't already seen that is.
http://dndwizards.tumblr.com/
