Chris Youngs wrote:
They went so fast that they run off an entire edition! :D
Link please?
I'm sorry, the natural haste of the quickling touched myself (mmm... am I a feytouched?) and I went so fast. It's the article about fomorians and the Feydark.
Fomorians, largely ignored for 3 editions, become 'big baddies'?
Cyclops live in the Feywild?!
Dryads spy on Elves (Eladrin) for evil masters?!!
Quicklings are members of 'The Hand'? THE HAND?!!!
I was hoping they would do something great for the Feywild, but like everything else, they made it a complete mess. None of that makes any sense what-so-ever - do any of the designers even read folklore, mythology, or Fairy tales anymore?
Where do they come up with this stuff? Questionaires at a pre-school?
And what happened to "no more forced balance" - the Feywild has an Underdark? Talk about saying one thing and doing a complete 360...
So whats the Shadowfel's Underdark look like? Even 'Shadowier'? Or is it all full of sunshine and lollipops?
Running a 3e game in Warcraft D20 is looking better and better.
EDIT: Yeah, this guy looks like a real 'deep-thinker' to me...
EDIT: Yeah, this guy lookslike a real 'deep-thinker' to me...
-They are very misunderstood.
Okay, that was one of the STUPIDEST things I've ever read.
Fomorians, largely ignored for 3 editions, become 'big baddies'?
Yes.
Cyclops live in the Feywild?!
Yes.
Dryads spy on Elves (Eladrin) for evil masters?!!
Yes (remember that now dryads can be of any type of alignment, not just good).
Quicklings are members of 'The Hand'? THE HAND?!!!
Apparently. What irked me about that was the implication that all spy networks for formorians everywhere are called "The Hand" (or whatever it is). The article told us that each kingdom is different--why would the spy network in each kingdom (or for that matter, the general structure of the formorian court) be the same?
None of that makes any sense what-so-ever - do any of the designers even read folklore, mythology, or Fairy tales anymore?
Well, err, according to W&M, they are trying to follow the real world mythology about formorians more.
And what happened to "no more forced balance" - the Feywild has an Underdark? Talk about saying one thing and doing a complete 360...
Good point, although this is explained in W&M as well. You know, that book you refuse to buy?:P
Just ribbing you a bit.:P
Okay, that was one of the STUPIDEST things I've ever read.
Fomorians, largely ignored for 3 editions, become 'big baddies'?
Cyclops live in the Feywild?!
Dryads spy on Elves (Eladrin) for evil masters?!!
Quicklings are members of 'The Hand'? THE HAND?!!!
I was hoping they would do something great for the Feywild, but like everything else, they made it a complete mess. None of that makes any sense what-so-ever - do any of the designers even read folklore, mythology, or Fairy tales anymore?
Where do they come up with this stuff? Questionaires at a pre-school?
And what happened to "no more forced balance" - the Feywild has an Underdark? Talk about saying one thing and doing a complete 360...
So whats the Shadowfel's Underdark look like? Even 'Shadowier'? Or is it all full of sunshine and lollipops?
Cyclopses i could sorta see in the Feywild, full of centaurs, nymphs and other Greek thingies. Evil dryads is just... Whaaaaa? i can see dryads a lumberjack, but spying for those folk? Nuuh-hu! The rest's just... Uuuuh, riiiiiiight.
-Don't forget, Dryads have 'combat forms' now.
Combat forms?
"Falling timbre three-forked strike"
Combat forms?
-Yes, combat forms. Apparently, when Dryads get angry and attack, they morph into a 'combat form', where they are all ugly and mean.
-Yes, combat forms. Apparently, when Dryads get angry and attack, they morph into a 'combat form', where they are all ugly and mean.
And glowy eyed!
And glowy eyed!
-That makes them even meaner.
Fomorians appear in 3E as "eldritch giants." Don't ask my why they called them that, but eldritch giants fit the description of fomorian to a tee. I think it might have been to break away from the "ugly giants" stigma of 2E and turn them back to their mythological beginnings as being powerful magic-weilding giants. And one of the developers must be reading some mythology, because the fomorians were a semi-divine race of tyrants, just like what's described here. The ugliness isn't necessarily associated with them as much, except that they seemed to have assymetrical bodies, and one of their eyes had unusual powers (such as poisoning everyone who gazed upon it).
Yes, Cyclops live in the feywild. They're one of the primordial nature spirits from greek myth. So they live in the primordial nature plane.
As far as the dryads, I don't know why they would want to serve a fomorian, unless they do it to preserve their primordial realm from the far reaching hand of civilization.
I see you live in Long Island. I'm relocating to Stony Brook soon. I've always wanted to run a campaign drawing heavily from Irish Mythology. If you're down, send me a message.
As for my rant - I know the Fomorians are closer to the original folklore concept, but the established D&D lore for them is not consistent to THAT. Also, I'm not really seeing the other things - I think Dark Elves should have been the 'Evil kingdoms' in the Feywild, but I know they stuck THEM over in the Shadowfel. It seems like they are only using the parts of folklore that works for them, and ignoring the rest.
The only reason I see for placing the Cyclops's in the Feywild is because the rest of the Greek Myth stuff gets dumped there, so maybe for that reason, but I don't see it in the stories themselves.
These new Dryads are so Warhammer it isn't even funny!
I should know, I have a Wood Elf army.
Quicklings - meh - never really cared for them, but I don't really see them being so evil they work for Fomorians.
Rinon has a VERY good point - the article goes on and on about how 'chaotic' and different each Kingdom and King is... and then describes them all as being exactly the same.
WTF?
And they all use Quickling Ninjas.
That ones almost as bad as the CCC....
QUICKLING
Small Fey
Hit Dice: 1d6 (3 hp)
Initiative: +8 (Dex)
Speed: 240 ft
AC: 23 (+1 size, +8 Dex, +4 haste)
Attacks: Dagger +9 melee
Damage: Dagger 1d4-1
Face/Reach: 5 ft by 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities, haste, special daggers
Special Qualities: Natural invisibility, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +10, Will +4
Abilities: Str 8, Dex 27, Con 11, Int 15, Wis 15, Cha 14
Skills: Animal Empathy +5, Bluff +6, Concentration +4, Craft (any one) +3, Escape Artist +12, Hide +16, Jump +12, Listen +6, Move Silently +12, Sense Motive +5, Spot +6, Wilderness Lore +6
Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Weapon Finesse (dagger)
Climate/Terrain: Temperate forest
Organization: Gang (2-4) or band (6-11)
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: No coins; 50% goods; 50% items
Alignment: Usually chaotic evil
Advancement: 2-3 HD (Small)
Quicklings are relatives of the brownie (q.v.) that dabbled in dark and sinister faerie magic many ages ago. Legend relates that they were transformed into creatures of evil as punishment. Quicklings have an intense hatred of all races (especially the other fey creatures) except their own kind.
Quicklings are small and slender, resembling miniature elves with very sharp, feral features. Their ears are unusually large and rise to points above their heads. Their skin ranges from pale to blue-white. Their hair is silver or white. Quicklings dress in fine clothes of bright colors. They are fond of silver and black, and often wear or adorn their clothes with these colors. Quicklings never wear any form of armor or cumbersome clothes.
They speak Common and Sylvan.
COMBAT
A quickling will attack by rushing in, stabbing a foe with its daggers, and then moving out of melee range before the opponent can react.
Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day—dancing lights, daze, levitate, shatter, and ventriloquism. These abilities are as the spells cast by a 6th-level sorcerer (save DC 12 + spell level).
Haste (Su): A quickling is affected by a permanent haste spell. This grants the quickling one extra partial action, either before or after its regular action. It also grants the quickling a +4 bonus to its AC (already included in the statistics block). The quickling loses the +4 AC bonus anytime it would lose a dodge bonus. The quickling can jump one and one half times as far as normal.
This is an inherent bonus and cannot be dispelled or negated.
Natural Invisibility (Ex): A quickling is effectively invisible when in its natural climate or when not moving. It loses this invisibility when it attacks.
Special Daggers (Ex): Quicklings sometimes employ special daggers that, in addition to dealing normal weapon damage, cause a creature struck to fall asleep.
Sleep: Any opponent struck by the dagger, regardless of Hit Dice, must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 15) or be affected as though by a sleep spell cast by a 6th-level sorcerer.
Skills: Quicklings receive a +8 racial bonus to Jump checks.
Feats: Quicklings gain the Spring Attack feat as a bonus feat.
The Quickling first appeared in the 1e MM II (Gary Gygax, 1983).
Ripped off Enworld.
-That makes them even meaner.
Indeed, it does.
Also, I'm not really seeing the other things - I think Dark Elves should have been the 'Evil kingdoms' in the Feywild, but I know they stuck THEM over in the Shadowfel.
Dark elves, as in drow?
They will be on the prime material plane (assuming it's still called that), and Worlds and Monsters has a little sidebar discussing them. The designers had toyed with putting dark elves in the Feywild, but then decided that they didn't want drow to be an extra-planar enemy.
Rinon has a VERY good point ...
Glad you think so.
The CCC, LOL!
as far as I know greek mythology, dryads are more on a peaceful side, they should be able do defend themselves but in subtle ways
I agree, that's why I find their "combat forms" to be a bit dubious.
Ahhhhh... 4ED FR is so balanced and historically correct. I love it, I truly, truly love it. I don't think I could have read anything as wonderful as that article.
Uh-oh! a 'pod person' has stolen the REAL GEV. :P
Either that, or 4e has finally melted his brain.
I think I liked the 'raving lunatic' better. :D
Fomorians appear in 3E as "eldritch giants."
Well, in 3ed we had fomorians in MM2 and eldritch giants in MM3 (I think).
A part from that, there's no need to say that the "you are the DM, it's your world, you make what you want" rule is going to apply more than ever, and if this is even more true than before... why the
are they giving us all this scrap?Yeah, yeah, I know... "that's what the designers had in mind when they were designing the new set of rules".
Ripped off Enworld.
-Heh, I love some of the descriptions. I hope this text isn't the final product. Special Daggers? Very informative...
Dark elves, as in drow?
They will be on the prime material plane (assuming it's still called that), and Worlds and Monsters has a little sidebar discussing them. The designers had toyed with putting dark elves in the Feywild, but then decided that they didn't want drow to be an extra-planar enemy.
-Sure, the Drow, the Dark Elves, whatever you want to call 'em. They originally came from the Plane of Faerie, and there's no reason to assume that every single Dark Elf left during their various migrations to all of the worlds across the multiverse- especially since it is likely, due to their martial and organized nature- that they ruled large swaths of the terrain without much challenge.
Well, in 3ed we had fomorians in MM2 and eldritch giants in MM3 (I think).
-Yes, Formorians and Eldrich Giants are/were two seperate things. I would know, because I used an Eldrich Giant as an powerful NPC in my setting's history. I had to search far and long to find something unique enough for the situation.
-Sure, the Drow, the Dark Elves, whatever you want to call 'em.
2e's Shadow Elves are much closer to folklore's DöAlfen (Dark Elves), and closer to Marvel Comics depiction of them as well. I would have preferred something like that as an evil group in the Feywild, but their association with Shadow made them a no-brainer for the Shadowfel... unfortunetly...
They just renamed them Shadar-Kai now...
Hmmmmm... another 'Oriental sounding' name... I wonder if the Fey are drawing inspiration from Oriental spirit folklore.... it would fit...
2e's Shadow Elves are much closer to folklore's DöAlfen (Dark Elves), and closer to Marvel Comics depiction of them as well. I would have preferred something like that as an evil group in the Feywild, but their association with Shadow made them a no-brainer for the Shadowfel... unfortunetly...
-Were those Greyhawk specific?
But as I mentioned before, 4E Shadar-Kai are former humans as per Worlds and Monsters.
-Aren't Faerûnian Shadar-Kai Goblin slaves, who were infused with Shadowstuff, and serve as slaves to the Shadovar? They were a featured race in Champions of Ruin...I'm pretty sure that's them. Anyway, as they already have specific Faerûnian origins, I don't neccesarily think (or rather, I hope) things will be randomly changed.
-Or were those Ki-Rinth, or something to that effect?
Its DökAlfen, and the Shadow Elves were Ravenloft specific - they were said to be a group of early Elves (read 'Fey') that were kidnapped into the plane of Shadow. There was an earlier (RW) group of 'Shadow Elves', who were just albino Elves that live undeground, and also had nothing to do with the Drow. Those are Mystara-specific (OD&D).
But as I mentioned before, 4E Shadar-Kai are former humans as per Worlds and Monsters.
Excerpt from the 3e Fiend Folio -
Note the very first sentence in the description... THEY ARE FEY!
The Preview guide is obviously incorrect; I have found many items that are wrong therein, and the two books do not even agree with each other (check the Warlock power sources in both for one example).
I don't have W&M yet, but someone 'lent' me a copy of their R&C. ;)
Its DökAlfen, and the Shadow Elves were Ravenloft specific - they were said to be a group of early Elves (read 'Fey') that were kidnapped into the plane of Shadow. The was an earlier group of 'Shadow Elves', who were just albino Elves that live undeground, and also had nothing to do with the Drow. Those are Mystara-specific (OD&D).
-The former group sounds interesting. I am thinking, maybe they deserve an article in Elves of Faerûn; a "possibility" article. I need to do a little more research on them. Ravenloft have "come" to Realmspace plenty of times, so...
-I guess those aren't the Goblinoid shadow creatures I was thinking of...
-Aren't Faerûnian Shadar-Kai Goblin slaves, who were infused with Shadowstuff, and serve as slaves to the Shadovar?
To be completely honest, I don't know.:embarrass
Note the very first sentence in the description... THEY ARE FEY!
Markus, for the last time, you don't have to prove that to me.
But what I said was still true. Check out W&M and see for yourself. Maybe it's wrong, maybe it's not--just don't shoot the messenger.
The 'iritation' was not meant toward you, believe me, it was aimed at the designers who are deciding to re-write cr@p every other week.
What are Elves this week? Tall Kender?
How about them Dwarves? Gnomes with a thyroid problem?
When does it end. The 3e Fiend Folio isn't that OLD! Changing 1e stuff is annoying, changing 2e stuff is disgusting...
but changing stuff that the CURRENT DESIGN TEAM WROTE? What the hell... did they just 'change their mind' and that was that? Do they even realize people are paying for the stuff they write, and they are rendering it moot faster then they can print new cr@p?
So whats the life-expectancy of the sourcebooks now? Until the next one comes out? They must think we are millionaires or something.
Shadar-kai as far as I remember the Dragon Ecology article were cursed and banished fey
No problem, but that was the second time this week where I felt the need to post something from a source to prove myself.
The 'iritation' was not meant toward you, believe me, it was aimed at the designers who are deciding to re-write cr@p every other week.
You don't need to prove anything to me, but I was a little annoyed because it seemed like you were trying to prove ME wrong, even though I'm not. I was just saying what the book says, and whether we like it or not what the preview books say are facts, at least until they are overriden at a later date.
I'm happy you weren't irritated by me though.
Like I said, I'm just playing the role of (mostly) objective reporter. What happened with the Shadar-Kai is really no different from what happened with the Eladrins--now they are a type of elven fey, not celestials.Krinth and Shadar-kai are different
-The Krinth were the 'Shadow Goblins', then?
Krinth are Shadow Goblins; where's that from?
Sounds almost like Raveloft's Goblyns.
Krinth are Shadow Goblins; where that from?
-Champions of Ruin. They are slaves of the Shadovar.
The Netherese used Gnomes, not Goblins. Maybe a Goblin is just a Gnome infused with 'Shadow Stuff'?
Damn... I hope I'm not giving them any ideas....
Ravenloft's Goblyns were just normal humans and demi-humans that became 'corrupted' and turned in Goblyns (which looked and acted a helluva lot like other settings Goblins). Since Ravenloft = Shadows, then Ravenloft's corruption can be redefined as 'Shadow Corruption' in the 4e world.
Another retcon...
-Yes, and no. Nothing much was ever written on Shade, especially during the time that they spent in the Plane of Shadows. It's quite possible that they 'adopted' the Krinith to make up for a lack of Gnome slaves.
Personally, I like my version better (what else is knew? :P ), because it ties together several pieces of lore across two settings.